Discontinued Zion vaporizer

The refunds have been processed and the balance to the force has been restored. I have been working 90 hours a week 100% focused on fixing the heater issue to get Zion's to customers because that is what the majority of my customers want. PC I am sorry that I didn't take time to answer your request....

"Just wondering if you could give me any kind of rough estimate as to when my unit might ship. I have never been so excited to get a product I've been waiting on in my life."

Maybe you didn't read the shipping FAQ, maybe you didn't read the statement on the form that if you ask a question answered in the FAQ I would not respond, Maybe you just couldn't help yourself because you where so excited... the truth is, I really honestly didn't know and since I had already answered your question, to be honest, I do not feel bad for not responding to you. This is on you my friend. I do feel bad that you talked your friend into hating on me and canceling his order too.

So, I continue to stand by my statement. I am sorry I missed the date, I am working as hard as I can to get vaporizers out, you can wait patiently or ask for a refund. I have set up a FAQ to answer 90% of the questions and will email you prior to shipment to confirm you shipping info and order.

If you take 3 minutes to respond to 100 questions, it's 5 hours of time that frankly I dont have.

So, hopefully now I can stop spending time on damage control and giving refunds and get back to building Vaporizers. So, I apologize to my loyal customers for the time I spent cleaning up this mess further delayed the shipment of your units after what I thought was a glowing progress update which will be my last.

I do feel bad for the delay this caused to my current customers.... So I am going to give a FREE three pack of screens to all of my <$269 customers. For future customers I reduced the threshold levels for the give-away to sweeten the deal. I truly hope folks here at FC take advantage of this pre-order and get some free stuff before we transition to our retail partners. But truth is I am not here trying to sell a ton of vaporizers on FC, I will leave that up to my future retailer. I am here for the expertise of the Z-Team who made the Zion the best that it could be. I am only selling enough units to have the capital required to fund my journey. So, I hope that he wise will see through the petty BS and buy a Zion... because I want to make a great vaporizer for great people, I have little need for money.

Well said

Great except for the part where you will now no longer tell us anything.

Awesome.

Alan Partridge said:

I suppose human trafficking can get quite expensive, but I was only after a Zion.

But it's heartening to see you will honour the warranty, that arrangement sounds reasonable enough.

If anyone in the US wants to hook a limey up let me know....

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If he truly didn't care about money, wouldn't he ship to the UK?

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but for me, THIS is more like my type of negative . . .





Party On dudes!



PositivityBreeds.

@RastaBuddhaTao it is always a plus to have a manufacturer presence here on this forum. It shows a level of customer care that is not always available in other markets. Once you hit your stride, I hope you will be able to balance. I see the examples set by @THC SCIENTIFIC for W9tech, and @underdog /@underdogette. They succeed despite the naysayers. Thrive even. There will always be squeaky wheels. Don't let the squeaks drive you mad even if you can't silence them all. Kill them with kindness. I'm thinking some won't get the humor in the "soup nazi" Customer service model. Personally I love it!

Don't let the bastards grind you down!

@DieHard

I agree, it takes a second, but you begin to realize the caustic sarcasm coming across. I believe his attempts at humor were taken as offensive. Not the best way to communicate, but I have a similar problem with my writing style, so I sympathize.

Anyways, as the guy said, his only concern was getting the z-team to help with his design and now that things are starting up, he will be disappearing. That's ok, the trip was fun to watch.

Peace all!

seaofgreens said:

Great except for the part where you will now no longer tell us anything.

Awesome.

Click to expand...

True, that did come out wrong. Meaning the latest update is all the info anyone should need. I will post the purchase dates of the units that I send out so that you have an idea of how close I am getting to your order. Next week we will be shipping the balance of the May orders and most of June. We will be through all existing orders in a few months and then will have units in-stock so we are really close to getting up to speed. I have hired some help to accelerate completing the units that I am personally building and once we have the manufacture qualified to make quality Zions the supply dwarf demand.

There is a glowing light at the end of the tunnel, we are almost there.

Now, I really just jumped on here quick to post the latest email from C1 and now i must get back to work as what I do want from my customers is to be pissed if I am wasting time here... lol... but I cant help but want to share these early reports as they make me so happy and proud of the Zion reaching real customers and I think it helps give everyone an idea of what to expect when you get yours.

EDIT: @seaofgreens please don't take it as I am ditching FC. It's the old "It's not you, it's me". My greatest human deficiency is diplomacy and political correctness. I am an engineer / Designer / Inventor. A bit too eccentric to be in customer service or customer relations. But I am smart enough to know that is why I need to keep my mouth shut while I transition to a retail partner that can add that value so I can hide out in the lab where I am comfortable. Through my web page and the Z-team I will always be accessible. I hope that the email below and my last several post helps to shed light on my perspective as a manufacture here on FC. I need make changes in the way that I conduct business that ensures that this doesn't happen again. Nothing personal, just learning and growing as I go.


Peace / out
RBT

___________________________________________________________________________________


I've seen you posted my email, that's great! It's finally the weekend, time for some fun!
Tonight I'm going to Geneva so I tried to stay calm with Yen, the face I had yesterday evening was way too much for going out dancing!
But I could not resist to try something... whole nug pressed directly in the small stem, 1/4 turn from 0 and just 5 full sec of preheat...
It was even better than with medium grind, just the nug must be well covering all the area. For that I lowered the screen...
I really feel the power of the heater, with few seconds it reaches temperatures well above vaporization and vaporized the nug very evenly. After a while I smashed it and increased the power reducing the preheat! Wow! Smashed but still functional, I have the time for some considerations...
Stems: At the end I did not notice a big difference between the long stem and the short one, maybe making many consecutive big hits in short time but its very easy to remove the stem and let it cool down a bit. I was afraid of the heat but it was not that much. I did some test yesterday night (you cannot imagine my face this morning!) to connect the small bubbler but was not very impressive maybe due to the improvised adapter I put together... I stopped and loaded the material in a solo stem that I used in the firewood... It was very, very good, I took this stem because you can avoid the metallic screens and have only glass in contact with the material... I think there was also some improvement to the airflow, it is like if the reduction in diameter after the bowl concentrates the flow lines making their passage through the bowl more laminar and more efficient... I did not stir at all that bowl, looked very spent already. To mention that it was suspended in the 18 mm aperture with silicon bands, not touching the bottom, so the glass was colder than the stock stem.
The influence of the path after the bowl is very high, many people like it completely unrestricted and I think the straight glass pipe is the best for it, but for me I prefer to feel some force when pulling... Thinking on motorcycles, to have a well balanced flux on the engine the exhaust is critical... I will investigate more, and most probably need a good 18-18 adapter to connect some glass mouthpiece, mine seem to touch the screen and I fear to damage the heater....

Edit: It was time to go, so I saved the draft to send ot later, but this morning I've read the bullshits coming out from fc...
I'm with you Ryan there is something wrong in some people, they have completely misunderstood the entire philosophy of this project and throwing shit on you!
Just to give my point of view, I've followed the project since may/june last year, and it was always stated that this was a trial made by one passionate during its free time that involved people from the forum for the development. Dates were estimations on a product still never produced apart from hand made prototypes, ic somebody wants to support is welcome.
SUPPORT the development, not buyng a finished product, who did not understand that of course cannot understand your decisions and is angry for "delays". Remember how I was surprised seeing your email? I thought to be far after the many people posting on fc with at least some more months to go...

Please, go ahead and let them in their bad karma, you managed to develop a wonderful vape, the heating tech is beast and the design screams "thought by users, not marketing", it is something that even seasoned or very big companies struggle to do or end up doing it a very questionable ways (cutting edges on materials, safety or long term duration).
But you did it

Ok, lets forget about that, time to wake up Zion to start smashed the Saturday!

I stand behind the zoom team, rollout and the way it is handled 100% but I will say,I work in construction there is a time when you have to swallow what you believe and go through the motions on customer support, we know they are stupid but what can you do?
Anyways let's give the legend some space to get these things sorted

I'm keeping track of customer satisfaction of received units and so far it's 100%. Even higher when you count the wrecked friends.

Keep up the hard work, RBT, nothing worthwhile is easy!

your pal,
thekarmawhore

If I'm reading it right, the more people I convince to preorder a regular Zion, the more free shit I will get with my order? Assuming I qualify and all... i guess...
Cool, but I don't even know where I am in line. I am getting a lot of mixed information. I was one of the last people to order one before the store closed, but my position in line is doubly confusing since I have no concept of how long that line is.
I also paid 200 for my Zion, and I am reading elsewhere I only qualify if I paid under 230 but elsewhere it reads as paying over 269. If I am reading correct anyway, it seems like the price I paid also represents where I am in line.

What am I missing? This is confusing. Either I have too much or not enough information.

Also, I guess the cool green mouthpieces are no longer available, are they?

So uh, i can't get this if I'm in australia

rakka said:

So uh, i can't get this if I'm in australia

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We (all of us outside the U.S.) can use a package forwarding company if we like.

https://www.shipito.com/


From - http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/shipping :

"Will you be shipping units outside of the USA?

Other than the Lifetime Zion’s already sold we will not be shipped outside of the US due to the cost of shipping, customs and international safety certification requirements. The only shipments planned outside the US are the 50 beta units of the single and manual battery units for development purposes. Some of our customers may choose to use a third party shipping company, however RastaBuddhaTao does not recommend this practice but will still honor the warranty. However, will only pay US rates for the return shipping and is not responsible for its whereabouts once it leaves the US."

Copacetic said:

We (all of us outside the U.S.) can use a package forwarding company if we like.

https://www.shipito.com/


From - http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/shipping :

"Will you be shipping units outside of the USA?

Other than the Lifetime Zion’s already sold we will not be shipped outside of the US due to the cost of shipping, customs and international safety certification requirements. The only shipments planned outside the US are the 50 beta units of the single and manual battery units for development purposes. Some of our customers may choose to use a third party shipping company, however RastaBuddhaTao does not recommend this practice but will still honor the warranty. However, will only pay US rates for the return shipping and is not responsible for its whereabouts once it leaves the US."

Click to expand...

Yep (again). I'm fine with this especially given that the warranty is honored or honoured.

I did just read on the RBT Zion Progress page and don't think it was posted here some encouraging news for Canadians:

This week a verbal agreement was reached with a North American contract manufacture to start work to produce Zion's in early March. This will be the final transition of the Zion to full scale mass production which we believe will be in the Summer of 2016 as the Zion's simplistic design allows for a rapid manufacturing schedule... less parts, less tooling, less engineering, less overall work. Less is more.

The icing in the cake was in the form of a conversation with an old suppler from my former life as Supplier Quality Leader who happens to be in Montreal. They supplied mica heaters for a Ni-Na battery technology that ran at 300 C. We now have a letter of intent that states that if I am able to secure sufficient volume commitment from a Canadian Vaporizer online retailer(s) we will set up operations in Canada. Lucky for me one of the Z-Team members has connections with various retailers up north. More to come on that exciting news.

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nkotb said:

Took Zion over to a friend's house. I think Zion might have converted 3 combusters.

The response I liked most from my "high-before-the-hit-ended" friend was "that thing destroyed my world!"

Two were a little reluctant to try, but once they did, they were glad they did, and everyone got a great hit on the first try (dry and bubbler).

Zion, Destroyer of Worlds.

Click to expand...

Haha love this man, we gotta make sure actual user reports like this don't get lost amid all the anticipation posts!

RastaBuddhaTao said:

please don't take it as I am ditching FC. It's the old "It's not you, it's me". My greatest human deficiency is diplomacy and political correctness. I am an engineer / Designer / Inventor. A bit too eccentric to be in customer service or customer relations. But I am smart enough to know that is why I need to keep my mouth shut while I transition to a retail partner that can add that value so I can hide out in the lab where I am comfortable. Through my web page and the Z-team I will always be accessible. I hope that the email below and my last several post helps to shed light on my perspective as a manufacture here on FC. I need make changes in the way that I conduct business that ensures that this doesn't happen again. Nothing personal, just learning and growing as I go.


Peace / out
RBT

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Exactly, very well put brother. You are the crazy fucker I want designing, building, and testing my vapes. I don't want you holding my hand walking me through questions and any CS, some day there will be an employee perfect for that. Let us get there first, get back into the basement where you belong my man

I'm with you Ryan there is something wrong in some people, they have completely misunderstood the entire philosophy of this project and throwing shit on you!
Just to give my point of view, I've followed the project since may/june last year, and it was always stated that this was a trial made by one passionate during its free time that involved people from the forum for the development. Dates were estimations on a product still never produced apart from hand made prototypes, ic somebody wants to support is welcome.
SUPPORT the development, not buyng a finished product, who did not understand that of course cannot understand your decisions and is angry for "delays". Remember how I was surprised seeing your email? I thought to be far after the many people posting on fc with at least some more months to go...

Please, go ahead and let them in their bad karma, you managed to develop a wonderful vape, the heating tech is beast and the design screams "thought by users, not marketing", it is something that even seasoned or very big companies struggle to do or end up doing it a very questionable ways (cutting edges on materials, safety or long term duration).
But you did it

Click to expand...

See this guy gets it^

Love these emails, wish he would just join us over here but I can't blame him! It does seem many members have totally different expectations of what FC is. Debateable I suppose, but its for enthusiasts to shoot the shit and compare notes/tips. Thankfully many manufacturers realized it was the perfect resource for knowledgeable beta testers (not just a place to manage customer sentiment...) and actually listen to feedback, making devices for the user not the marketer as C1 said. That is what I love about this place, and its disappointing to see others with such a (imo) warped view leading to (imo) some semi-unreasonable expectations from other members (including manufacturers)...
(Not to mention some good old fashioned name-calling and homophobic slurs... Where are we, Reddit?!)

Hey C1, if you're reading this get yourself some 18-18 male to male US size adapters for water use. Regular ISO joints can also be cut to 7/8 inch long so they fit, though getting screens in them can be trickier. Interesting how people are using silicone to connect alternative stems though... Cant wait til I can try my bent stem again some day @RastaBuddhaTao! (Just kidding get back to work you! I can wait lol)

@Edric al-Fali colored stems were put on the back burner, low priority. I am fortunate enough to have early green ones, but the clear ones are perfectly fine. The new flame polished mouthpiece on the short stem is particularly nice. Some day they will be an accesory I'm sure, and maybe the single will even have the colored bowls again (I do miss Ziggy's green bowl...) As for place in line, if you were a final order like that before the shop close, I'd expect youre around 60 give or take (total guess here), I can't speak to the specific giveaway details, but I'm sure you'll be well taken care of when the time comes, hang in there dude!

VegNVape said:

Way to get involved Bongo!

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As a business owner myself I find it very helpful for my customers to criticize, complain, or compliment, especially about things that could be easily changed. It's nice to see you encouraging the free flow of ideas. Thanks.

Drama, Drama, Drama. Can you guys go back to posting about the face melting action of the zion. I enjoy reading those far more.

Bongologist said:

As a business owner myself I find it very helpful for my customers to criticize, complain, or compliment, especially about things that could be easily changed. It's nice to see you encouraging the free flow of ideas. Thanks.

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Seems like A LOT of startup, new companies these days - especially in this vaporizer market, absolutely DO NOT understand manufacturing processes or how to run a business all together. How many crowdfunding campaigns, pre-order runs, and mass drops has everyone seen... you get the idea.... make A TON of noise on here and elsewhere long before a viable product of any kind has come to fruition. And then they all seem to run into trouble well before their launch.. doh!

The Millennials especially. Don't even get me started with them. Thinking they are going to change the world through facebook updates and on crowd sourcing campaigns alone?!?! IT REQUIRES PUTTING IN SOME TANGIBLE WORK FOR CHRISSAKES!!

Bongologist said:

Making fun of a customer, really? I used to enjoy coming to this thread and now it's just sad.

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Bongologist said:

It's nice to see you encouraging the free flow of ideas. Thanks.

Click to expand...

I definitely encourage the free flow of ideas, but I thought that piping up out of the blue just to call the thread 'sad' is not very helpful or constructive, and it certainly isn't much of an idea

But I do not wish to crush anyone's spirit in any way, so yeah for sure, keep spilling your guts folks.

Anyway, I'm just really very grateful & happy to be here enjoyng this amazing vape, while sharing my experiences, opinions & pics with some good like-minded people.

I only come here for the happy vibe, so I'm sorry if I call anyone out on thier negativity.

Kool-Aid? Soup?

To me it's all gravy, baby.


Live2Love.

I am a customer telling the owner of a company that a thread I used to love now makes me sad, specifically because of bickering with customers. You may not agree with me but there is no need to belittle my opinion by telling me it's not an idea, nor constructive. I obviously think it's important, wasn't a jerk, and was prepared to go on my way and again watch from the distance and wait for my Zion.

Hmm so they are forbidden from selling outside of America? So could vapefiend or planetvape not import and sell? I think i will need to do some reading on this but i am not very trustworthy of mail forwarding.

international safety certification requirements should be paid for and start shipping worldwide, Screw customs and shipping it does not stop me buying say a Sublimator from Planetvape.CA. Just mark it down as a gift wink wink.

VegNVape said:

I definitely encourage the free flow of ideas, but I thought that piping up out of the blue just to call the thread 'sad' is not very helpful or constructive, and it certainly isn't much of an idea

But I do not wish to crush anyone's spirit in any way, so yeah for sure, keep spilling your guts folks.

Anyway, I'm just really very grateful & happy to be here enjoyng this amazing vape, while sharing my experiences, opinions & pics with some good like-minded people.

I only come here for the happy vibe, so I'm sorry if I call anyone out on thier negativity.

Kool-Aid? Soup?

To me it's all gravy, baby.


Live2Love.

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Bongologist said:

I am a customer telling the owner of a company that a thread I used to love now makes me sad, specifically because of bickering with customers. You may not agree with me but there is no need to belittle my opinion by telling me it's not an idea, nor constructive. I obviously think it's important, wasn't a jerk, and was prepared to go on my way and again watch from the distance and wait for my Zion.

Click to expand...

If you want to continue this line of discussion then it's time to take it to PMs. Negative comments about another member's posting style or character are not appropriate.

Hooray for eccentric, passionate makers in this world!

The Famous Farmer talks openly about firing customers, too. You can't please all of the people all of the time. Not only that, but it takes all types of people to make the world go round. That's been a personal motto for me for years, since I don't fit in with society in general. lol

Thrilled to read the user reports here, and can't wait (but will wait) for the Zion to arrive down under (with thanks to my mother in law in the USA - yay!!) I'm too excited!

Farkas said:

Actually settled on 4/8/12. Not overly huge clouds, but the AVB is a nice chocolate brown at the end. I find with a coarse grind and fluffy load, I get somewhere around 8 pulls on the lowest setting stirring after every two draws, then 3 or 4 more on the medium setting, and a final 1 or 2 at the highest setting to cash it out. Also, I did the bottle cap screen mod and dig it, as a lot less of the load sticks to it. So, all in all, after having the unit for the past several weeks, I'm a big fan. The stealth, ease of use, and efficiency of it is hard to beat. It's well worth the short learning curve involved to dial it in. Kudos to Joe @Ipuffusa

...not sure if this is against forum rules (mea culpa if it is), but has anyone been peeking at the Zion thread lately? I must say, outside of a recent dust up between a disgruntled guy waiting to receive his production unit and the owner of the business, I gotta say it looks pretty sweet. Not as concealable as the ESV, but seems to perform on par with the ESV and is getting some rave reviews, not to mention it has user changeable batteries. I am severely tempted to pull the trigger and pre-order it (or perhaps the smaller single battery unit they also have in the works), but really don't have any actual need for it with the ESV serving me so well. This is my first vape, by the way, so this VAS I read about is apparently a real thing....

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I figured it best/most appropriate to respond to your post here in the Zion thread since my response is more directed towards the Zion itself. I recall reading that your a fresh convert from combusting and that you just ordered a Daisy. Some of the beta testers were able to compare the Zion to the Daisy as they owned or tried the Daisy themselves. Even @RastaBuddhaTao has gotten himself a Daisy. I would think of the Zion as a much more regulated electric Daisy...although I still have yet to try one so this is all a matter of opinion from observation.

Just a thought, but thinking in the future, rasta should make another model style that utilizes a ss tip like the underdog nylon stem. Great for conserving and for strong 1 hitters. Anyway just my thoughts as sit here vaping on my UD.
Hope everyone's enjoying the Saturday