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Cheap High Quality Bubbler

mvapes

Scratchin' Glass!
Accessory Maker
I assume you mean lead, not led :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_glass#Safety
That was about all I was able to find on the subject, I would like to learn more. I was under the impression that glass was the same hardness, with quartz being harder. One might think that the addition of lead to make the glass easier to work at lower temps would result in less hardness, rather than more. Were any of our usual vendors using leaded glass?

Sorry for the mis - spelling. You are in fact correct. The Chinese do things a bit differently than us here. Their glassworkers are in a factory type environment with each blower labeled by numeric code. This is where the JJ, DS, DH, all came from - who even know's if there's a real Anne Meng? lol

There can be 20 distributor's selling the same product and not even know who touched or made (let alone what it's made of) the pieces in question.

In fact, I had worked two pieces sent to me by the same person. Both from the same vendor and both fab eggs. One was lead based and the other was fine. They both etched but the lead one would not let me dig any deeper than a half a millimeter. To give you a comparison, I like to go as deep as 3 mm at times. Hardness makes no difference as I can etch into quartz as well as other minerals. Lead based glass can only be etched using acids and creams which also means it's NOT boro. Boro can't be acid etched as it's lab grade glass. In order to be classified as lab grade it has to be able to stand up to solvents that could compromise the structural integrity if the glass.

I belong to a forum for glass blowers, sanders, and so on and so forth but as we all know I'm pretty new to the game as well. I might not know all the science yet but I can tell you guy's I've seen how their glass reacts to my abrasives. Another thing I would like to add that may offer some more insight for my FC brethren is that I flame polish my pieces after I scratch em. 3 separate times, with 3 different pieces, once I hit it with my torch I heard an immediate POP! Each one broke.

Hence Scratched Glasses new saying...

"don't flame polish the Chinese ones" :razz:

One more thing to add, in case anyone wants to know what I spray with I use 180 grit aluminum oxide.
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Sorry for the mis - spelling. You are in fact correct. The Chinese do things a bit differently than us here. Their glassworkers are in a factory type environment with each blower labeled by numeric code. This is where the JJ, DS, DH, all came from - who even know's if there's a real Anne Meng? lol

There can be 20 distributor's selling the same product and not even know who touched or made (let alone what it's made of) the pieces in question.

In fact, I had worked two pieces sent to me by the same person. Both from the same vendor and both fab eggs. One was lead based and the other was fine. They both etched but the lead one would not let me dig any deeper than a half a millimeter. To give you a comparison, I like to go as deep as 3 mm at times. Hardness makes no difference as I can etch into quartz as well as other minerals. Lead based glass can only be etched using acids and creams which also means it's NOT boro. Boro can't be acid etched as it's lab grade glass. In order to be classified as lab grade it has to be able to stand up to solvents that could compromise the structural integrity if the glass.

I belong to a forum for glass blowers, sanders, and so on and so forth but as we all know I'm pretty new to the game as well. I might not know all the science yet but I can tell you guy's I've seen how their glass reacts to my abrasives. Another thing I would like to add that may offer some more insight for my FC brethren is that I flame polish my pieces after I scratch em. 3 separate times, with 3 different pieces, once I hit it with my torch I heard an immediate POP! Each one broke.

Hence Scratched Glasses new saying...

"don't flame polish the Chinese ones" :razz:

One more thing to add, in case anyone wants to know what I spray with I use 180 grit aluminum oxide.
Also to support what Mvapes is saying and further add on the topic that glass is all the same hardness: there are different kinds of glass and different kinds of quartz with different physical properties.

Consider the differences observed within optical grades of quartz (IR vs UV) before we get to semiconductor grades of quartz - the latter being flame fused whereas the former requires electrical fusion/more advanced methods. Flame fused quartz retains greater water content due to residual hydroxyl groups which are a byproduct of oxidation/fusion, which reduces the optical clarity and the stability of the flame fused quartz. Of course there is variation and there can be; for example, electrically fused semiconductor grades of quartz which will still typically feature poorer optical transparency than required for the optical grades.

Borosilicate has different properties to other glasses in no small part because of the boron used in the manufacturing (as evidenced by the final constituent, boric oxide - found in borosilicate). Lab borosilicate aside from the silica and boric oxide will usually comprise some sodium oxide and a small amount of aluminium oxide (ruby and sapphire are each kinds of aluminium oxide, impurities determine the color and hence final classification). Lab grade borosilicate is extremely resistant to all kinds of extreme solvents, but also has a low thermal expansion coefficient, important for lab applications and the humble bong alike (especially if you got a hot nail sitting on a glass joint!).

Other kinds of glass can have low thermal expansion coefficients, like tempered soda-lime glass (US homewares brand Pyrex uses these), but are still not as good for our application.

Mvapes is absolutely on the money that acids should not eat through lab grade borosilicate (which is what our rigs should be ideally be made of) but will react with glasses with enough lead in the composition.

It seems that the higher lead content (or who knows, failing conclusive testing it could be some mystery constituent) in the non boro Chinese rigs (as Mvapes highlights above this still exists in China and can be found from Chinese manufacturers - it is just a bit of a crap shoot to know which will be which til you get it) negatively effects the resistance of the glass to this sandblasting technique as well as the thermal expansion coefficient. It might come as no surprise that this less robust glass is something less desirable for many purposes (including ours). If you do a quick google search of lead borosilicate you will find even a bunch of Chinese sellers on dhgate and alibaba stressing that there glass is lead-free.

Glasses with high lead compositions are useful in some electronics manufacturing applications however, they are just not appropriate for our needs.
 
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blazedd

Well-Known Member
Is that the appropriate water level? I have mine filled to where the imperial perc starts. And I just find it annoying that I have to tilt the thing around to get it to drain. Pretty sure that's not how it's really supposed to function. But maybe it is if that's how your piece is as well.
Start at 2:53, I based water level on that but there is no way the clone drains as quick as the real sov.
Not really an issue for me though.. it always resets after a bit. does yours just chill until you tilt it?
 

deltr0n

Big Daddy Oil
Sorry for the mis - spelling. You are in fact correct. The Chinese do things a bit differently than us here. Their glassworkers are in a factory type environment with each blower labeled by numeric code. This is where the JJ, DS, DH, all came from - who even know's if there's a real Anne Meng? lol

There can be 20 distributor's selling the same product and not even know who touched or made (let alone what it's made of) the pieces in question.

In fact, I had worked two pieces sent to me by the same person. Both from the same vendor and both fab eggs. One was lead based and the other was fine. They both etched but the lead one would not let me dig any deeper than a half a millimeter. To give you a comparison, I like to go as deep as 3 mm at times. Hardness makes no difference as I can etch into quartz as well as other minerals. Lead based glass can only be etched using acids and creams which also means it's NOT boro. Boro can't be acid etched as it's lab grade glass. In order to be classified as lab grade it has to be able to stand up to solvents that could compromise the structural integrity if the glass.

I belong to a forum for glass blowers, sanders, and so on and so forth but as we all know I'm pretty new to the game as well. I might not know all the science yet but I can tell you guy's I've seen how their glass reacts to my abrasives. Another thing I would like to add that may offer some more insight for my FC brethren is that I flame polish my pieces after I scratch em. 3 separate times, with 3 different pieces, once I hit it with my torch I heard an immediate POP! Each one broke.

Hence Scratched Glasses new saying...

"don't flame polish the Chinese ones" :razz:

One more thing to add, in case anyone wants to know what I spray with I use 180 grit aluminum oxide.
A quick googling tells me that they started to add lead to glass to make it easier to cut the angles seen in crystal wear, by making the glass softer. That doesn't really jibe with your experience of not being able to blast it? Unless it's somehow so soft that it just mushes around instead of losing material? Any other possible explanations?
 

mvapes

Scratchin' Glass!
Accessory Maker
Inyour case you read absolutely correct. What you may have misinterpreted from the article is that glass doesn't get softer in a sense making it easier to cut or manipulate. Softer means it takes much less heat to soften said glass. The surface doesn't actually become "soft".
 

demonscars

Well-Known Member
Start at 2:53, I based water level on that but there is no way the clone drains as quick as the real sov.
Not really an issue for me though.. it always resets after a bit. does yours just chill until you tilt it?
Yeah it will drain a little bit but not more than a few drops really until I tilt it. I think it's just the perc holes aren't properly cut. I'll try to get a function video up soon.
 

CameraNerd

Well-Known Member
Jane asked me to break the FTK (crack inside the pipe leaks)
Whats the most useful way to stress test/break it for youtube?
I was thinking hot water (my condo's water is super f hot) and then dipping it in ice water (common way peeps break bubblers)
If it survives that, which im not sure it will.... i was thinking about torching the joint .... i am always chicken shit when torching the banger because i dont want to crack the glass... i could just test it lol.
Then, if some how it survives the Vector torch, ill just drop it from table height onto cement haha.

I am genuinely exited to break this thing, let off some frustration from it showing up broken. Thats why the water level in the videos never went to the top, it was leaking it too quickly.
 

CuckFumbustion

Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
I belong to a forum for glass blowers, sanders, and so on and so forth but as we all know I'm pretty new to the game as well. I might not know all the science yet but I can tell you guy's I've seen how their glass reacts to my abrasives. Another thing I would like to add that may offer some more insight for my FC brethren is that I flame polish my pieces after I scratch em. 3 separate times, with 3 different pieces, once I hit it with my torch I heard an immediate POP! Each one broke.
Was considering buying 2 of the same model from the same vendor. Was prepared for some sketch to sort out and considering the idea of buying 2 to increase my chance of getting one that was less questionable. But this adds a whole other wrinkle to it. Not entirely surprised, but under-prepared. Thanks everybody for bring this to my attention. :tup:

So I need to get my mind right with types of glass and how they are fumed. Since I do have a few homemade solutions:cool: this will help me with foodsafe 'alternatives.
Like the truffle oil bottles I have been collecting. :science: They are vapor safe right?

I am starting from the bottom of understanding, please bear with me. Frankly I'm sifting through the posts and have a very fuzzy sketchy outline with understanding glass and clear glass. A few tangents. So soda glass is the most commonly mass produced and generally foodsafe. Borosilicate glass is more heat resistant but nearly as safe? The other types of glass either contain lead or are questionable if broken or scratched up. Exposing the more dangerous properties of the glass. Scientific glass is a standard or is it a type of glass?

I am thinking of having some sort of scratch test say at the base of whatever piece I 'm buying. If It is safe, I scratch my initials. :haw:
 
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demonscars

Well-Known Member
Well it looks like I had some better luck with the FTK. Honestly after the shipping thing, I'm still satisfied. It's crack free, and vortexes. Haven't really had time to play but thought I'd share a quick pic and a vid.

kvKmZKO.jpg


vid at https://vid.me/6f4f
 

galacticdad

Well-Known Member
Got my e-nails in from hymanquartz01 and goddamn.. I think I'm one of the few who owns a D020-2S (frit disc to vortex disk) and it performs with this domeless quartz enail. Going with just a male enail in the FC-Ball is ruling over the drop-down I previously used.

Are there versions of the FC-Mini around that don't have the quartz swing or is that the whole point? I think I'm gonna give Steven's rattle can a shot.
 

CameraNerd

Well-Known Member
hahaha my ftk is bussssup now! video coming soon... lol its hard to break it, even if its already broken. still kinda fun tho :D

The FTK survived my sink torture test. i ran hotter than hell water (my landlord is going to get sued one day for scalding someone) over it until the pipe scanned at the same temp as the water (120 on my uncalibrated ir gun) then dunked it in 2 big ice cube (all i had) water that was about 42 degrees (consider these relative temps as i dont know how to calibrate my IR) .. so there was close to 80degrees dif. survived.... i went back and forth with it... survived... so FTK is prob pretty sink safe (dont fuck up your bong and blame me)

Then i soaked it in boiling water... temp was 200 once it had been poured inside... dunked it in ice with no issues.

So i torched the joint... 43 seconds of direct Vector torch cracked the joint. i think you are prob pretty safe not using a drop down as long as the torch doesnt hit the joint.. i was alaways worried that just being close to the torch was enough to crack it... not in my testing...

so fuck it.. .it broke my heart but i decided to drop it onto a cast iron. 3 ft... broke it to shit. i love slow mo video haha.
 
hahaha my ftk is bussssup now! video coming soon... lol its hard to break it, even if its already broken. still kinda fun tho :D

The FTK survived my sink torture test. i ran hotter than hell water (my landlord is going to get sued one day for scalding someone) over it until the pipe scanned at the same temp as the water (120 on my uncalibrated ir gun) then dunked it in 2 big ice cube (all i had) water that was about 42 degrees (consider these relative temps as i dont know how to calibrate my IR) .. so there was close to 80degrees dif. survived.... i went back and forth with it... survived... so FTK is prob pretty sink safe (dont fuck up your bong and blame me)

Then i soaked it in boiling water... temp was 200 once it had been poured inside... dunked it in ice with no issues.

So i torched the joint... 43 seconds of direct Vector torch cracked the joint. i think you are prob pretty safe not using a drop down as long as the torch doesnt hit the joint.. i was alaways worried that just being close to the torch was enough to crack it... not in my testing...

so fuck it.. .it broke my heart but i decided to drop it onto a cast iron. 3 ft... broke it to shit. i love slow mo video haha.
i just wrap it in the bubble wrap it came in and wack it with a hammer! Works like magic! Even then though I'd like to point out it still takes a couple of wacks. So yeah pretty tough glass. Had to do it to my Kathy piece and Steve piece and both took a couple of wacks!
 

CameraNerd

Well-Known Member
i just wrap it in the bubble wrap it came in and wack it with a hammer! Works like magic! Even then though I'd like to point out it still takes a couple of wacks. So yeah pretty tough glass. Had to do it to my Kathy piece and Steve piece and both took a couple of wacks!

speaking of kathy... Shes gone!


FTK DROP TEST #FAIL
 
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Lip465

woooo
I ordered 3 pieces from steven and was pleased by all of them. The pillar and torus both were crooked at the place where the joint meets the can, but for the price I cant complain. The sidecar matrix bubbler is my favorite, would buy again
 

weenstoned

Well-Known Member
So I guess Mothership just launched a cheaper line called Brothership which basically are pretty much the China glass versions of Motherships. No seed of life percs, bake-on labels instead of sandblasting/etching, non-handmade joints. But still costs $500+
 

gaseous_clay

Well-Known Member
I ended up buying both of these and a D022 a couple months ago.

The D022 is cool. Not the best piece, but it's ok. I don't think the 2nd perc chamber was necessary at all, but I have no problem using it at all.

The recycler is made pretty cheaply. It's also very unstable when putting my EVO on top, but that's not really surprising. Have only used it a handful of times and the last time it tipped. I caught it, but the tip of the male joint cracked off. Still seals, but it's not a piece i particularly enjoy.

The really pretty piece I didn't enjoy at all. It takes a LOT of water to get above the slits in the tree. It did the trick, but I got no flavor at all out of it thanks to the amount of water. This piece might be cool for combusting, but it wasn't entering the rotation at all and never would, so I gifted it to a friend. His first glass piece.

-----------
Steven (Jane) had offered me a free piece for helping with the redesign of the HT that isn't going to happen. Instead, I asked for the FC-MOD ashcatcher with an extra Matrix perc (broke the other one, but why not have another Matrix?) Gonna make my fake Devastator have 2 ashcatchers instead of just one!
 

John Lewus

Well-Known Member
So I guess Mothership just launched a cheaper line called Brothership which basically are pretty much the China glass versions of Motherships. No seed of life percs, bake-on labels instead of sandblasting/etching, non-handmade joints. But still costs $500+

I hope they don't counterfeit some of the Chinese designs :rofl: That would be... wrong LOL
 
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