next generation e-nails?

herbivore21 said:

have you tried to take your coil out of the equation and torch dab a few times? Is this only with heater coils? Coils can stink to a vile extent just from the oils on our hands getting onto them and cooking off while heating.

Wait you were saying you were torching only IIRC?

If you were torching a thoroughly cleaned nail (oh I should check did you torch the heatsink inner tube hard as hell and scrub inside to get any solid carbon residue out?) I do think it seems likely that something is up with a certain number of bases?

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Yes, just torching at the moment. It's going to be a couple of days until I purchase my D-Nail, I'm really hoping I can buy early next week!

As to cleaning, I did all you said and more. My base is now a nice rainbow. I scrubbed inside and out (used lot's of q-tips on the inside) and even tried some concentrated, Ti safe, Orange TKO. No change.

Maybe it will just go away with use? If that does happen I'm going to be seriously wondering what could have potentially been on the outside of the Ti that took so long to vanish..?

@herbivore21 i havent torched my nail except to clean my SIC - I just got a brand new coil and the smell persisted - then I switched back to the v 1.3 nail and no smell at all

BoogerMan said:

I finally got around to writing up a few things. Got my HighFive e-nail in! I love the graphic! I got pillars of creation and it is some very clever artwork! The red plane PID isn't very attractive IMO. The Omron obviously looks way better but is also more expensive. I wish I could change the red on the HighFive PID to white or blue or green. Oh well, it's not the end of the world

Anyways, the 710 whip ceramic nails do not fit with the Gimido or HighFive e-nail flat coils from my experience. I have both the 710 ceramic nails with and without the slit (I believe the newest design is the one with the slit), and both seem to be the exact same size. Unless 710 whip changed the design since early 2015 (when in purchased these nails IIRC), I think the threads right under the dish are just too large to fit through for most flat coils. Neither nails fit either flat coil I have. Here are some pics. The Gimido center hole is slightly smaller than the HighFive.

Gimido coil on top, HighFive on bottom.

Gimido coil

HighFive coil

My Gimido e-nail has the Omron LCD PID and the HighFive has the standard cheap red PID.

I still need to make some rosin and dab to see temp drop difference, but so far I was able to compare heat up times.

I set both e-nails to 680F. The Gimido steadily increased to 680F and it never went over 680F. The HighFive increased at a quicker rate and went to about 700F (the Gimido was at about 600F at this time). The HighFive then dropped down to 680F at about the same time the Gimido reached 680F.

So heat up time is about the same. Obviously the Omron PID is much more accurate since it did not overshoot the set temp. I'm sure the Omron will have less temp drop during hits, but honestly, if you don't glob, I think the cheap standard PIDs work very well

Also, one last note, the Omron PID sits at 680F and never fluctuates when not in use (okay maybe I shouldn't say never because I have seen it drop down to 679F before - probably from an air draft - but anyways it basically always sits at the set temp). However the HighFive fluctuates between 678-682F. Just helps show the accuracy of the Omron PID once again.

EDIT:

Made some rosin. Took small dabs on each nail. Maybe 0.02g size dabs. Both dropped down to 675F. I'm guessing this temp drop is more from the 70F cold carb cab and not the dab since temp only starts to drop after I cap the nail.

In conclusion, cheap e-nails seem to work just as fine for me as more expensive e-nails.

Hope this helps

EDIT 2:

I realized Quartz doesn't hold its heat as well as SiC so comparing the Quartz halo on the Gimido to the SiC on the HighFive isn't very accurate. I bet if I swap the 2 I would get an even more stable Gimido and a less stable HighFive.

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Bummer and those coils fit the d nail base? I don't have a single flat coil that doesn't work with the domeless.com nail and I've got 4 different brands (including high5) but all mine only have 2.5 wraps (except the hyman coil which has 3) ... it looks like yours are wrapped 3 wide which is nice for better heat distribution.

Your high5 pid seems to fluctuate more than mine as well as mine only ever drops a degree and bumps back up within a second or 2 when not in use. I wonder if that has to do with newer tuning or the wider coil?

The last piece of my rosin press came in this afternoon so I'll be joining you soon!

rolln_j said:

@herbivore21 i havent torched my nail except to clean my SIC - I just got a brand new coil and the smell persisted - then I switched back to the v 1.3 nail and no smell at all

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Man I am definitely hearing you guys loud and clear now, given that @KittensTasteYummy was torching and you guys report this happening very consistently, I do wonder if something is up with some of the bases in one batch or another!

I will speak to my counterparts at D-nail next time I place an order (I wanna get another ninja nail! I love the pelican nail setup! ), and explain very clearly to technical staff what you guys have reported and see if this can help them get to the bottom of what might have happened.

@rolln_j I won't comment on how you were spoken to specifically, only as I don't know what you were told exactly. Still, I want to say that if you were spoken to rudely and had approached d-nail politely as you say, I am most sorry to hear that! I've never had such an experience (in fact they've been nothing short of lovely to me over the 1.5 years or so I've dealt with them) but again, I take you at your word bro, never had cause to think you'd be lying!

I don't believe you are making up this issue either, my friend. I will do what I can within my meager influence as a beta tester when I get the chance to make sure that your point is acknowledged.

I almost want to get a current slim series base and do some experiments to see if I can get the same effect and then hopefully get to the bottom of why!

I'm not sure, I know nothing about thermo-dynamics it just seems that it's not really the nails ability to hold heat, it's the coils ability to provide it that should make the difference? afaik the coils work full tilt until switched off by the PID so they're always working as hard as they can, so the higher the wattage the quicker the recovery as long as the PID responds quickly enough.

And yup, recover from post-dab temp drops is what I meant...

MileHighLife said:

Bummer and those coils fit the d nail base? I don't have a single flat coil that doesn't work with the domeless.com nail and I've got 4 different brands (including high5) but all mine only have 2.5 wraps (except the hyman coil which has 3) ... it looks like yours are wrapped 3 wide which is nice for better heat distribution.

Your high5 pid seems to fluctuate more than mine as well as mine only ever drops a degree and bumps back up within a second or 2 when not in use. I wonder if that has to do with newer tuning or the wider coil?

The last piece of my rosin press came in this afternoon so I'll be joining you soon!

Click to expand...

Yeah both coils fit the slim line and v1.3 base fine! Hmm yeah maybe it is the 3 wraps?

I just watched my HighFive again and it only fluctuates up or down 1 degree. It seems like every once in a while it will fluctuate 2 degrees but most of the time it is just 1. I stood further away this time when I watched it. Maybe me moving around and breathing close to it made it fluctuate more earlier? It maybe it was just the new coil getting worked in? It's better now for sure.

Can't wait to see your rosin setup!

ReggieB said:

I'm not sure, I know nothing about thermo-dynamics it just seems that it's not really the nails ability to hold heat, it's the coils ability to provide it that should make the difference? afaik the coils work full tilt until switched off by the PID so they're always working as hard as they can, so the higher the wattage the quicker the recovery as long as the PID responds quickly enough.

And yup, recover from post-dab temp drops is what I meant...

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Yeah that does make sense! I definitely get what you are saying. I don't know much of the science behind it either so maybe someone can chime in and drop some knowledge

Both recover well. The Gimido PID seems to start flashing slightly quicker and slightly more often compared to the HighFive.

I like how much smaller the HighFive case is. This will be my travel e-nail for sure and the larger Gimido will stay at home

KittensTasteYummy said:

I just commented on this in the SiC thread. I absolutely, 100% agree! I've cleaned everything multi x's but am still getting a burnt rubber or burning tire smell that's so strong it's all you can smell in the room!

Update: I emailed D-Nail concerning this issue. I pointed out that I wasn't the only person with this problem (I shared the info from here with them) and that it doesn't seem to be affecting people with older SlimSeries bases, only new ones.

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Nice, I'm about to do the same. Def lemme (us) know what happens next if ya don't mind Guinea piggin it.
I can't really fathom that a company like d-nail would let something this enormously detrimental to their product pass under their nose (motherfuggin pun intended) but if it raises the bottom $ enough....the lines start to get blurry unfortunately, it is a biz after all.
Also the fact that you have the sic and I have the Quartz dish scares me even more that the base/nail itself is the issue....
About to blast the entire nail with my torch, clean off what oxidizes and re-test. Hope someone has some luck

rolln_j said:

@KittensTasteYummy @fatty_tattoos

sucks to hear that others are having the same shit smell issue with the slimline - but at the same time I at least feel vindicated

I stopped using mine and went back to the 1.3 nail - no bad smell whatsoever

i sent d-nail a long email re: all my issues with the slim line - they made a bunch of excuses and basically told me to kick rocks

so Ill be kicking them rocks over to other companies from here out

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Wow. That's somewhat embarrassing if you ask me...."we're THE e-nail biz, get all your e-needs here!"
Rollin_j: "hi, this iteration of one of your products might have an issue, would love some help."
New statement: "we're THE e-nail biz for everyone except rollin_j cuz we ripped him off with little to no explanation, everyone else, come on down!!"

Starting to regret the d-nail bandwagon I hopped on......maybe I'll have better luck with their customer service.

Damn @rolln_j really hoping they re-visit this issue as it seems like I'll be at least the third to bring it to their attention...

Edit: sorry mods for the dub post.....guessing you'll be on me bout that layta's

That's the omron with the quicker response then by the looks of it as it's on the lower wattage coil. Doesn't seem to matter too much though if you're only dropping a few degrees and it's responding quick it's all a bit academic, sounds like you've got a pair of decent setups

ReggieB said:

That's the omron with the quicker response then by the looks of it as it's on the lower wattage coil. Doesn't seem to matter too much though if you're only dropping a few degrees and it's responding quick it's all a bit academic, sounds like you've got a pair of decent setups

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Yeah that seems to be it.

Did a test where I paid more attention.

HighFive with SiC set to 670F. Temp did not drop at all while placing the small dab on the nail. Once I put the carb cap on, it dropped to 663F. After removing the cap and clearing the rig, the temp went up to 674F then back to 670F.

Gimido with Quartz Halo set to 685F. Temp dropped to 684F while placing a small dab on the nail. Once I put the carb cap on, it dropped to 678F. After removing the cap and clearing the rig, the temp went up to then 686F then back to 685F.

HighFive PID dropped 7F, went up 11F, and dropped 4F to get back to temp.

Omron PID (Gimido) dropped 7F, went up 8F, and dropped 1 F to get back to temp.

The Omron was definitely faster in responding and accurately getting back up to temp, but it dropped more than I thought it would. I'll switch nails and do the same test tomorrow.

I agree, I don't think it really matters for my needs. If it was getting used back to back constantly or waas being used with HUGE dabs, I'd definitely want the Omron. For most people, I think the standard cheaper PIDs works perfect.

@herbivore21

I wasnt spoken to rudely at all - there is just a disconnect between the tech and Diane as she is new and knows nothing about any of the stuff I detailed and the message was forwarded to somebody else who didnt really see any merit in my complaints/issues

edit: I would add that the correspondence was before the smell issue had cropped up as I had emailed them prior to even using the slim line - I never emailed them re: the smell

rolln_j said:

@herbivore21

I wasnt spoken to rudely at all - there is just a disconnect between the tech and Diane as she is new and knows nothing about any of the stuff I detailed and the message was forwarded to somebody else who didnt really see any merit in my complaints/issues

edit: I would add that the correspondence was before the smell issue had cropped up as I had emailed them prior to even using the slim line - I never emailed them re: the smell

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I agree. My recent past problems with D-Nails customer service were due to Diane's answering technical and policy question that she didn't know the entire answer to and as a result gave me the wrong scoop. She initially didn't even know about the existence of D-Nails "Custom Shop." In that situation I did end up getting annoyed and though she made some rude comments to me a customer service rep should never make, I also got heated and made some comments I shouldn't have.

After writing D-Nail off for good and also sending my final unhappy email, not just to Diane, but to other D-Nail departments as well... I got an email from a manager who was willing to help me and convinced me I needed to give them another shot (I was also offered a discount for my troubles).

*Note, I did apologize for being rude to Diane. No matter the level of service provided or how rudely I felt I was treated, I should never have allowed myself to get upset and also make rude comments as that is never called for or productive! Anyway, hopefully she is studying both the products her company sells along with their policies and in the future will be knowledgable enough to provide better answers.

rolln_j said:

@herbivore21

I wasnt spoken to rudely at all - there is just a disconnect between the tech and Diane as she is new and knows nothing about any of the stuff I detailed and the message was forwarded to somebody else who didnt really see any merit in my complaints/issues

edit: I would add that the correspondence was before the smell issue had cropped up as I had emailed them prior to even using the slim line - I never emailed them re: the smell

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Ohhh I get ya man, I'm glad I misunderstood that because rudeness would be quite unexpected! Still, I'll make sure that the technical issues you have raised surrounding the base is brought up. If you like, please do PM me with a full breakdown of any other issues you outlined in the email too. Understand if you cbf of course though bro I'll raise the heat smell issue nonetheless on behalf of any here who have experienced the issue.

Please PM me if you are a user who has also experienced any issues with the slim series bases and would like your feedback included. Please be succinct, but clear in your feedback to ensure I can explain your experience as accurately as possible. Remember, I'm no staff member of dnail nor do they pay me any income for anything, but I wanna make sure that potentially crucial feedback is heard, after all, the continuing top notch quality of my medical administration tools is worth it and so you could say it behoves me to see that any possibly batch issues are noted and headed off

Whilst Dnail have been setting up their Oregon operation during the latter part of this year, NY HQ have been running on less staff and with technical staff largely occupied assembling the first beta run of presses and a number of other key projects much of the end of 2015. This has stretched their hard working admin staff and left them at times less able to get answers on the technical questions that we FC folks often have as avid nail users. In my experience, they have always been good not to answer questions that they don't have the knowledge to speak to though Still, I wanna make sure that anything that perhaps was rushed etc when being dealt with during this period is not missed in the long term. I have never had any of my questions be forgotten though, I've even had technical questions answered months later when I had forgotten having even asked them!

I am reliably informed that the worst of this extremely busy period with staff spread somewhat thin is over now. Still, I wanna make sure nothing is missed in terms of feedback on new items that came out during this period (there were so many!). I have personally used many of the new items myself but having run technical/service departments for consumer/industrial electronics companies in the past, I know that customers can and do have different experiences to one another and that any number of units within any given batch can have a QC/manufacturing issue or more unusual functional quirk/s from time to time.

Oregon is going swimmingly now and it will be worth it long term. Seriously, some incredible extraction tek is being developed in their labs here - can't go into the specifics of tek since this is not my IP but it is some absolutely game changing stuff! I have held my tongue for quite some time on this topic until I knew it was ok to mention!

Hope this helps you guys

herbivore21 said:

Oregon is going swimmingly now and it will be worth it long term. Seriously, some incredible extraction tek is being developed in their labs here - can't go into the specifics of tek since this is not my IP but it is some absolutely game changing stuff! I have held my tongue for quite some time on this topic until I knew it was ok to mention!

Hope this helps you guys

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No man! You are not allowed to say that! I just got my damn rosin press setup working like a charm. Don't tell me there is new tech and I'm going to need another extraction setup

herbivore21 said:

Seriously, some incredible extraction tek is being developed in their labs here

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Thanks for the info, I can't wait to see what else they've been working on!

BoogerMan said:

No man! You are not allowed to say that! I just got my damn rosin press setup working like a charm. Don't tell me there is new tech and I'm going to need another extraction setup

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That's what I was also thinking - haha! I've been reading up on their presses and had convinced myself I needed to pre-order from the next batch that becomes available. If there's even newer tech coming down the line then I might need to wait?!

BoogerMan said:

No man! You are not allowed to say that! I just got my damn rosin press setup working like a charm. Don't tell me there is new tech and I'm going to need another extraction setup

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Lol never fear my friend, this is not tek you'll be using at home You'll be happily squishin' all the while! What kinda press setup did you go with btw bro?

The more information you put up about the omron in use the more I like the unit, I had a look at the user manual, it's a very capable unit, interestingly they've got AC/DC and RS-485 enabled units so there are lots of possibilities for standardising desktop AC, 12V and even a nail temp app.

I'll be honest.....I just got my new fc-710 and a new china banger...grabbed some funky live resin...been trying the d-nail quartz halo with auber 200...set at 650 to 665....and also the new banger..torched red hot then cooled for 55 seconds...honestly I'm hitting flavor country with the banger...the d-nail is ok... I'm not getting this metal taste others have reported....but the flavor is toned down...where as with the banger I'm left smacking my lips. Like taking a pull on a unlit joint..

herbivore21 said:

Lol never fear my friend, this is not tek you'll be using at home You'll be happily squishin' all the while! What kinda press setup did you go with btw bro?

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That's a relief lol.

Rocking the 10 ton H press with @Joel W. plates you've seen it right? I swear I posted pics at some point. Maybe I didn't?

Well just in case, here ya go

I have been using a slimline for a few months now (initially I was using a V1.3).
I haven't noticed any unusual smells.
I will soon be using another brandnew slimline in a new rig.
The base was purchased with my other slimline base a few month ago, and the heat sink I received yesterday.

Could be an interesting test case if the smell is associated with a particular batch of nails; as my base and heat sink MAY be from different batches.
If I smell anything, I will try to see if the smell is isolated to the base or the heat sink.


Overall I prefer the slimline to the 1.3.
But it is stuck like a MFer in my dropdown.
Not a big deal as it's dedicated to the nail.



edit: @ckingflava you may need to run your quartz halo @ a higher temp.
I run my SiC Halo @ 627*.
According to the temp charts @ d-nail to get the same effective temp on the Quartz Halo I would need to run @ 713*.

@ckingflava
I think you need about 680 on that nail with the Auber. That is what I ran with the RDK-300.

@herbivore21, @MileHighLife, @rolln_j, @fatty_tattoos, @alittledabwilldoya', @BoogerMan
Sorry if I forgot someone...

I spent the morning (along with a little over 1 bottle of butane) torching the absolute living f#ck out of my Slim Series and the SiC Ti retaining nut. I believe the time and quantity of butane I spent torching everything goes well beyond anything I have ever seen or done before, and most people (myself included) would likely find it a bit ridiculous. The burning tire smell & taste has now considerably diminished, but is not 100% gone. After a bit of use it's not getting stronger, but the smell and taste still lingers (though it's much better than before). Going to mess around with it again later after I get some sleep.

Update: My new Carb Cap unexpectedly arrived early today from D-Nail (ordered Thur, arrived Sat, NY to SoCal). Even though it's the straight hole version instead of the angled one, I'm likely going to keep it as I'm getting really tired of using the iDab on the SiC. I've decided I'll be getting the updated Ceramic or other similar material carb cap D-Nail plans (or at least planned) to release in the future. Until then I can deal with the straight hole as being lazy sounds like such an easier option at this point. I'm going to sleep on it but I bet I'll be using it later this afternoon!

KittensTasteYummy said:

@herbivore21, @MileHighLife, @rolln_j, @fatty_tattoos, @alittledabwilldoya', @BoogerMan
Sorry if I forgot someone...

I spent the morning (along with a little over 1 bottle of butane) torching the absolute living f#ck out of my Slim Series and the SiC Ti retaining nut. I believe the time and quantity of butane I spent torching everything goes well beyond anything I have ever seen or done before, and most people (myself included) would likely find it a bit ridiculous. The burning tire smell & taste has now considerably diminished, but is not 100% gone. After a bit of use it's not getting stronger, but the smell and taste still lingers (though it's much better than before). Going to mess around with it again later after I get some sleep.

Update: My new Carb Cap unexpectedly arrived early today from D-Nail (ordered Thur, arrived Sat, NY to SoCal). Even though it's the straight hole version instead of the angled one, I'm likely going to keep it as I'm getting really tired of using the iDab on the SiC. I've decided I'll be getting the updated Ceramic or other similar material carb cap D-Nail plans (or at least planned) to release in the future. Until then I can deal with the straight hole as being lazy sounds like such an easier option at this point. I'm going to sleep on it but I bet I'll be using it later this afternoon!

Click to expand...

Hmmm I wonder if there was one batch of bases with an inordinate amount of machining residue on them? Also out of interest, for those experiencing this issue, which kind of base adapter do you use (name the ti joint as the base of your slim series, mine is a 14mm f ti joint).

Remember also that d-nail have offered to accept very thoroughly cleaned straight hole carbs in exchange for angled hole ones, so you could use the one you have right now so long as it comes back in good condition

How does the straight hole function though, is it nice??? I am thinking of getting a straight hole carb myself to try out since I tend to finger carb my angled hole carb anyway...

I picked up a 710 Life Enail Kit w/ 20mm coil for $155. I've been running it for 2 months now and it works like a champ. Since I depend on it so much I'd like to get a back-up coil just in case. Their site (420 Life.com) offers a replacement coil for $47 w/ shipping or is there another type of coil I should look at ? Amazon offers a couple of brands (never heard of them) Dernord and Aiicioo for $35 or am I better off just getting the oem coil ?

herbivore21 said:

Hmmm I wonder if there was one batch of bases with an inordinate amount of machining residue on them? Also out of interest, for those experiencing this issue, which kind of base adapter do you use (name the ti joint as the base of your slim series, mine is a 14mm f ti joint).

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This could be a very real possibility but I don't know enough about their manufacturing process to comment. I still can't figure out why it wouldn't be completely gone at this point? I believe I've gone a bit above and beyond what is considered normal for cleaning.

Also, I'm using the same, 14mm f Ti joint.

herbivore21 said:

Remember also that d-nail have offered to accept very thoroughly cleaned straight hole carbs in exchange for angled hole ones, so you could use the one you have right now so long as it comes back in good condition

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I wish this were still the case, I'm not sure what changed?! Diane (D-Nail NY, General Customer Service Rep), emailed me and took the time to state that she would accept it for swap -ONLY- if it remained 100% Unused (her email said: "please keep it 100% Unused"). I'm not going to risk it incase I do decide to swap. Were I willing to risk it, assuming I remained very careful during use & kept it clean, I doubt it would be easily noticeable that it was previously used.

herbivore21 said:

How does the straight hole function though, is it nice??? I am thinking of getting a straight hole carb myself to try out since I tend to finger carb my angled hole carb anyway...

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I haven't tried it yet, I'm still deciding. Will likely end up keeping it and give it a try later today. I haven't tried their angled carb though so I can't really compare the two. If I do use it, I just hope D-Nail's: Halo Compatible Ceramic Carb Cap, isn't very far away from being released! - You will likely hear more from me on this later tonight.

herbivore21 said:

I really love the slim series bases I've used; keeps heat off glass to the point that I don't do dropdowns anymore.

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I couldn't agree more! This is the first base I've ever used that kept the glass directly below the Ti joint almost cool to the touch!

fatty_tattoos said:

Def lemme (us) know what happens next if ya don't mind Guinea piggin it.

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I'll post as soon as I get a response next week.

herbivore21 said:

I wanna get another ninja nail! I love the pelican nail setup!

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I agree, that thing looks sweet!!

jl420 said:

I picked up a 710 Life Enail Kit w/ 20mm coil for $155.

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Funny enough, that's actually the first e-nail I looked at. I found and almost purchased it before I knew much at all about e-nails. I had a question regarding one of its features and ended up doing a bit of research (which then lead to a LOT more & I haven't stopped since) only to decide shortly after that I wanted a flat heater coil and a PID that didn't drop quite as much during use. Still, I'm not knocking it or your purchase in any way! It seems like a great basic unit, I didn't find anyone reporting problems, and the Amazon reviews are all 5 star!

jl420 said:

or am I better off just getting the oem coil ?

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First, I would like to point out: (this is probably obvious to you and many others, I'm not trying to be insulting in any way!) - When purchasing a non-oem heater, there's a good chance that it will be wired differently than your current control unit! It's imperative to ensure that they are both wired the exact same way to avoid potentially fatal damage to both your control unit & heater! Along with custom wired heaters, should you find an incorrectly wired heater you really want to use, it's also possible to order or make a custom adapter that will allow your unit to function without modification to the control unit or heater (though unless you made your own cheap adapter, the price of doing so is likely not worth it for you). The average price for the few assembled adapters I've found is around $35-$40.

Though I'm not a fan due to customer service problems I've had with them, a lot of people seem to like the cheaper, 100 watt ($60), Gimido coils. I've also read several accounts of their coils being left on without problems for months +... (*I don't know if they are compatible with your unit*).

Aside from that, I don't know enough about the various cheap heater/coil brands to offer much help there, sorry. I'm personally staying with the more expensive: D-Nail Extended Life heaters, due to their quality, long life, support, custom wiring options, and an ability to leave on 24/7 (for well over a year +). I think their long life makes the higher price comparable to other short lived heaters that need to be replaced more often. That said, I'm sure there are other, potentially cheaper, quality options & I'm absolutely not saying that you need to spend as much as me or buy what I did! I'm sure you have very good reasons for wanting exactly what you specified and have likely gotten great use out of your current setup! I hope you find a cheap heater that meets your needs!