UK CBD concentrate myth?

tepictoton · Jan 9, 2016

One little remark... A commonly made mistake is made when one says thc will be converted into cbd, in hash out whatever form it is in, with time (and heat). This is wrong. Thc does get converted into CBN in this way, but not into CBD!

Have been trying to find a reliable supplier here too, not the only one I can vow for is endoca, but there prices are simply to high.

Also, do not be filled by claims such as extracted from high cbd female flowers only... The high cbd is found mostly in, drum roll, male flowers!!!

Sorry to brake any bubbles, but be aware af the tricky tricks that are being pulled out of some heads (or should I say assess, especially if they are in the 'get rich fast train')

Let's hope a reliable source is discovered soon... Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

sativasam · Jan 9, 2016

@tepictoton Thanks for your input. I was under the impression that most of these products were not even being made from the flowers at all, let alone male or female; and that much of what was on the market was derived from stalks. Most of the websites don't mention what part of the plant is used, including Endoca. I actually have just sent them an email asking what part of the plant they use. What is the best legal CBD product you have tried?

tepictoton · Jan 9, 2016

Endoca, by far, but only got a sample once through my old work...Their prices are just way to high.

The way I understand it Endoca has been in this business for years, and it is the first place I found mentioning of the CO2 extraction process. They use industrial hemp as their base. Which in itself should not be a bad thing...One thing farmers love hemp for is the ability to grow it without the use of pesticides and such, and on top of that they get good soil in return to grow other cash crops in the following seasons.

So what I still do not understand entirely is the prices involved. With industrial hemp, specifically male flowers, we are talking of more then 20procent CBD, meaning one could extract 20grams of pure cbd from just 100grams of starting material?

Furthermore, the CO2 process might explain the high cost a bit, but would only need an initial investment. After some time the machine should have paid for itself and give the producers the opportunity to produce it at a fraction of the initial costs.

But I guess it is kind off a wild-west situation. Strange thing is that all this is a direct result of prohibition, and as such, here we have another example of how it´s filthy tentacles reach beyond...and beyond and beyond...While CBD in and of itself has never been explicitly banned, it´s market is clearly influenced by the grey zone of prohibition, casting it´s dirty shadow everywhere....

Maybe 2016 might be a good year to stop this ridiculous witch hunt...it is about Time...

Back to CBD, I guess we are lucky to have these forums where one might find out for oneself how to separate the good from the not so good or even bad once. Self-education is the new meme of this Time..

sativasam · Jan 9, 2016

Just received the CBD Brothers oil. Smells like soil and grass almost rancid smelling. They sent it with a card that has info from thier last batch analysis supposedly but it doesn't include tests for pesticides, mould, heavy metals etc. I won't be putting it in my body. Impulsive buy that I regretted as soon as I had made the purchase. I may be wrong about them. But you know what they say... if it seems to good to be true then it probably is.

From seeing the CBD Brothers product I can safely say I won't be buying any black oil/sludge from anywhere even Endoca.

StormyPinkness · Jan 11, 2016

Going to echo what some others said, interesting thread I'm going to lurk on, nothing to add though.

sativasam · Jan 11, 2016

So I found this Insta account of a CBD distributer....
http://www.online-instagram.com/user/cbd_man/2208108444

It's quite an eye opener. He mainly pushes Isodial products. Even though Isodial create CBD crystals from Hemp, they still managed to get 3rd place in a High Times award for the best CBD concentrate when competing with Cannabis derived concentrates. Isodial have also developed tasteless CBD water.

On his account is a video clip of some CBD crystals being dabbed, which is interesting to see!

Also he shows some Endoca labeled products that I haven't seen anywhere else such as CBD shisha/kief. I think these may be CBD crystals mixed with other herbs or hemp flowers. They are not for sale anywhere I can find, and may be still in the pipeline or never to hit the market. From the descriptions on his Insta account these following pictures are different.

If anyone knows/works out how to get these products shown in the images above please let me know.

Who is Isodial?

Isodiol and its team of collaborators are a group of companies that together grow, harvest, and process hemp on an industrial scale for the extraction of cannabidiol (CBD) to the highest available purity for worldwide distribution. From the largest source of farmed hemp, to wide-scale extraction and final purification, Isodiol's CBD product is extremely pure and natural. In its crystalline form it is virtually colorless, odorless, and tasteless. By utilizing one of the world's largest hemp farms, Isodiol and its partners are the #1 choice for industrial volumes of high grade CBD. Isodiol offers companies the opportunity to custom formulate CBD into a variety of products including concentrates, oils, beverages, edibles, and cosmetics. Pharmaceutical, nutraceutical and cosmetic companies worldwide have gained market share as a result of our unique product and services.

http://s15.a2zinc.net/clients/MJBiz...ID=&ListByBooth=true&BoothID=100948&Nav=False

tepictoton · Jan 12, 2016

Not to rain on that parade... But high times cup... Well... Sponsor most, get the prize if you know what I mean... I would be very very careful with assuming that this place means anything (more then they were the sponsor paying most after place one and two)...

And yes, it is strange to see those endoca products that nobody had ever heard of nor seen them...

Ps second link does not work for me...oeps, now it does

sativasam · Jan 12, 2016

tepictoton said:
Not to rain on that parade... But high times cup... Well... Sponsor most, get the prize if you know what I mean... I would be very very careful with assuming that this place means anything (more then they were the sponsor paying most after place one and two)...

Yeah it had occurred to me that there might some under the table dealings.

sativasam · Jan 13, 2016

For those that care I recently asked Endoca what part of the plant is used to make their products. They told me seed and stalks. No flowers. Not whole plant.

I believe this is likely true for all legal CBD products on offer in the UK. It would be great if it were not the case; but either way my CBD Ambrosia e-liquid is still doing me well, so if it is made of seeds and stalks, well, its the best seed and stalks I ever vaped!!!

sativasam · Jan 19, 2016

So I got this oil from https://www.cbdoilsuk.com/

CBDOILSUK only offer products that are from organic sources. All of their products on their website have an analysis/test sheet to match. This is where I bought my Enectar Ambrosia CBD E-liquid, which I think is an amazing product.

I got hold of their Black Label Love Hemp 800mg 8% CBD Oil containing both CBD and CBDa. In my emails enquiring about this product they describe it as an "unique blend designed by us. Organic, pure hemp extract and nothing else added. Filtered to a beautiful dark golden colour… This oil is produced by a EU government accredited GMP facility. They grow and extract the oil themselves via Co2 supercritical extraction. There are no additives. It's vegan, GMO and gluten free.”
I've asked for an analysis/test on their oil for pesticides and heavy metals, in which they will receive and send to my shortly.

My Mum isn’t a fan of inhaling things into her lungs and wanted to try some CBD in the hope of easing her chronic insomnia and anxiety. So this stuff should do nicely.

I decided I would be the guinea pig to make sure there were no adverse effects before giving the oil to my mum.

When I removed the lid to the tincture and and examined the oil with my nose, I was pleasantly surprised. The Black Label Love Hemp 800mg 8% Oil has a really pleasant cannabis aroma. Don’t get me wrong, it doesn't smell like a stinky THC bud strain, but it does smell like cannabis. And the smell really is nice, unlike the CBD Brothers oil/paste that smelt really nasty. My mother also agrees with this statement.

I put the recommended dose under the tongue for one minute. Again I was pleasantly surprised, this time by the flavour. It reminds me of eating Moroccan pollen, and for me this flavour is very comforting. After I had held the oil under the tongue for the recommended time of one minute, I swallowed the oil. There was an aftertaste that I would describe as bitter, which faded quite quickly.

After 5-10 minutes I started to feel the effects. I felt a warm/wieghty feeling around my head, eyes, and body. I started to feel noticeable more relaxed than before I had induced the oil. I felt a state of calmness and even slight euphoria from the oil. The effects for me are profound while also being mild. It has the effect of slowing me down a bit and making me feel warm, relaxed, and mushy, without being high and depleting valuable braincells. You could use this stuff in the day time if you really wanted to; although I think it is actually too relaxing for my personal day time activities. I would prefer it at night time. This stuff definitely works. And I really like the effects and taste. The noticeable effects seem to last for a good couple of hours before becoming a little harder to notice.

Im pretty sure I can’t vape this oil, but it definitely gets a thumbs up from me. The 800mg Love Hemp oil is much stronger than the 100mg E-juice I have been consuming. The 800mg Love Hemp oil is not scarily strong, the feeling is really very pleasant. It’s nice to get the taste of cannabis with my CBD rather than the ‘peach tea’ flavour I have been getting from the Enectar Ambrosia E-juice. Saying that though I really do love the Enectar E-juice flavours. They are sooo moorish. While feeling the effects of the Love Hemp Oil, I could still taste the oil in my mouth somewhat and decided to use the Peach Tea Enectar CBD E-juice at the same time. This was a very pleasant experience. I had no urge to consume my THC laden cannabis while using the https://www.cbdoilsuk.com/ Love Hemp oil. Very content. Very impressed. Very happy. I will be using this again for sure. CBD products are definitely for me!

My Mum will now try the oil in aid of helping relieve her insomnia and anxiety which she has suffered from for many years. I will report back soon with her findings.

AvatarOfGreen · Jan 19, 2016

We used to grow a strain that was less than .5% total THC and over 22% CBD-a by weight, something like 47:1. That strain was insane. We made concentrates and it actually hurt the ratio, it was around 65%CBD-a and 4% THC-a.

Youre actually better off with flower than concentrates IMO unless you get a pure CBD extraction method. Concentrating makes any small amount of THC in the oroduct become more present. Pure CBD will never really turn to shatter. It will have an insane citrus/orange taste and will be super-sappy, and a weird orange coloration.

sativasam · Feb 7, 2016

So CBDoilsUK sent me over the analysis for the 8%LoveHemp Oil. Some of you may have more to make of this than I.

On another note - My Mum wakes up every night without fail around 4pm with extreme anxiety which causes insomnia, and cannot get back to sleep for hours.

She has been using the 8% LoveHemp Oil for 2 weeks in the hope that it may help her sleep through the night. This is her feedback. "I tried taking the recommended dose before bed to see if it would help me sleep through the night without waking. The hemp oil put me to sleep very quickly, but I still woke up in the middle of the night as usual. So I then tried the oil once I had woken up in the night with the anxiety, in the hope that it would help me get back to sleep. I found it very calming, and my anxiety was reduced. Also the time it took me to get back to sleep was massively reduced. I will keep using the oil thanks Sam."

So I'm very glad that this has helped her get back to sleep, and made the hours that are normally filled with extreme anxiety that much easier for her. It really is a blessing. For obvious reasons she won't take Valium or anything like that, and nothing else has ever worked for her. It's no miracle cure, but it for sure has helped ease the anxiety so she felt calmer and able to get back to sleep. Which is a first!!! So double thumbs up LoveHemp.

To some this may sound trivial but to us this is a real brake through!

phooka · Feb 10, 2016

sativasam said:
So CBDoilsUK sent me over the analysis for the 8%LoveHemp Oil. Some of you may have more to make of this than I.

On another note - My Mum wakes up every night without fail around 4pm with extreme anxiety which causes insomnia, and cannot get back to sleep for hours.

She has been using the 8% LoveHemp Oil for 2 weeks in the hope that it may help her sleep through the night. This is her feedback. "I tried taking the recommended dose before bed to see if it would help me sleep through the night without waking. The hemp oil put me to sleep very quickly, but I still woke up in the middle of the night as usual. So I then tried the oil once I had woken up in the night with the anxiety, in the hope that it would help me get back to sleep. I found it very calming, and my anxiety was reduced. Also the time it took me to get back to sleep was massively reduced. I will keep using the oil thanks Sam."

So I'm very glad that this has helped her get back to sleep, and made the hours that are normally filled with extreme anxiety that much easier for her. It really is a blessing. For obvious reasons she won't take Valium or anything like that, and nothing else has ever worked for her. It's no miracle cure, but it for sure has helped ease the anxiety so she felt calmer and able to get back to sleep. Which is a first!!! So double thumbs up LoveHemp.

To some this may sound trivial but to us this is a real brake through!

http://www.infowars.com/your-ancestors-didnt-sleep-the-way-you-do/

kellya86 · Feb 11, 2016

@phooka good read thanks,,,

Jimbo.london · Feb 11, 2016

Thanks for all the info.

I have just bought the 700mg medivapour e liquid and a bottle of the canavape gold drops 1500mg. Both bought from canavape.co.uk.

I have been wanting to try cbd for quite sometime for Crohn's disease, anxiety and sleep problems. I smoked up to an oz and a half a week for over a decade but have been on a break now for 7 1/2 months.

I was having problems with other substances and when getting sober thought I should probably knock the weed on the head as well until I got my life sorted.

I'll let you know what the two products are like and how canavapes customer service is.
Peace

davesmith · Feb 11, 2016

Good luck lad. Let us know how it goes

herbivore21 · Feb 11, 2016

I just wanna step in here and say that Isodiol are a seriously legit operation, I've contacted and found out how they make their CBD crystals and let me tell you, that level of isolation is seriously admirable. These guys are also an ISO registered lab IIRC.

The level of fractional distillation that they achieve from industrial hemp and the resultant purity of crystals basically renders the 'but it is from hemp' argument moot. This shit is high purity CBD with little else to measure - the same molecule is the same molecule after all - whether you dug out the needle in the haystack from industrial hemp, or extracted it more easily from a specially bred 3rd or later gen CBD chemovar.

I can't wait to be doing the same level of isolation later this year

Sadly this is not knowledge I will be able to instruct others in since the costs of much of the necessary equipment are prohibitive let alone the risks for the uninitiated.

phooka · Feb 12, 2016

herbivore21 said:
I just wanna step in here and say that Isodiol are a seriously legit operation, I've contacted and found out how they make their CBD crystals and let me tell you, that level of isolation is seriously admirable. These guys are also an ISO registered lab IIRC.

The level of fractional distillation that they achieve from industrial hemp and the resultant purity of crystals basically renders the 'but it is from hemp' argument moot. This shit is high purity CBD with little else to measure - the same molecule is the same molecule after all - whether you dug out the needle in the haystack from industrial hemp, or extracted it more easily from a specially bred 3rd or later gen CBD chemovar.

I can't wait to be doing the same level of isolation later this year Sadly this is not knowledge I will be able to instruct others in since the costs of much of the necessary equipment are prohibitive let alone the risks for the uninitiated.

does the crystalline CBD produced by Isodiol still have the carboxyl group attached?

herbivore21 · Feb 12, 2016

phooka said:
does the crystalline CBD produced by Isodiol still have the carboxyl group attached?

Nope, it was decarboxylated. In the past I had been confused and thought that CBDA was crystalline and CBD is not (like THCA vs THC). However, I have spoken with a certain PhD chemist and consulted some scholarly literature - actually I believe all we could find was a GW (or some such) patent on this topic, apparently decarboxylated CBD is actually crystalline! Who knew?!

phooka · Feb 12, 2016

herbivore21 said:
Nope, it was decarboxylated. In the past I had been confused and thought that CBDA was crystalline and CBD is not (like THCA vs THC). However, I have spoken with a certain PhD chemist and consulted some scholarly literature - actually I believe all we could find was a GW (or some such) patent on this topic, apparently decarboxylated CBD is actually crystalline! Who knew?!

Thank you for sharing!
@herbivore21 hey Maybe you would know. Do decarboxylated CBD and THC convert to CBN upon vaporization?

Jimbo.london · Feb 12, 2016

Hey Everyone

So less than the 24 hours later the package arrived. There customer service was excellent. They even rang me yesterday to confirm it would be here this morning. They also put a free bottle of there own brand 10ml 100mg eliquid in as well.

Iv started with the 100mg free e liquid. I'm using a sub ohm Isub g tank to vape it in.
The taste is ok. It's supposed to be blueberry which there is a hint of but its coupled with quite an earthy taste which I imagine must be the cbd. Iv vaped about a ml of it now so that should be about 10mg of cbd.

The effect is very mild but I can definitely feel something. I have a bad knee which was hurting earlier but isn't now. Also I just feel very calm. There is zero euphoria or body high just a sense of peace. I have literally had nothing stronger than a cup of coffee in 7 1/2 months so wasn't sure what to expect.

So in conclusion the 10mg/ml eliquid causes all bodily aches and pains to go away and chills me out but without any really noticeable effects in terms of additions. What I mean is that all of my symptoms are reduced but there are no extra feelings added I.e. Body high, drowsiness etc. The level of chill it gets you I'd say is similar to that of after a long hot bath. There's nothing unsober about it just very relaxed.

Later on I'll try the 700mg medivapour and the 1500mg gold drops and let you know how they are. So far I have nothing but good things to say about canavape.co.uk.

Cheers.

herbivore21 · Feb 12, 2016

phooka said:
Thank you for sharing!
@herbivore21 hey Maybe you would know. Do decarboxylated CBD and THC convert to CBN upon vaporization?

THC as you probably know degrades via oxidation (which can be brought on by heat, as well as barometry or other oxidizing agents such as ozone and/or various forms of electromagnetic radiation) into CBN.

CBD does not degrade into CBN to my knowledge. As a scientist, I can't rule it out unequivocally, someone may yet discover that this does take place - but as of yet none of the extensive literature on the topic of the chemical pathways involved in the development of major cannabinoids that I have read has made this claim.

phooka · Feb 13, 2016

herbivore21 said:
THC as you probably know degrades via oxidation (which can be brought on by heat, as well as barometry or other oxidizing agents such as ozone and/or various forms of electromagnetic radiation) into CBN.

CBD does not degrade into CBN to my knowledge. As a scientist, I can't rule it out unequivocally, someone may yet discover that this does take place - but as of yet none of the extensive literature on the topic of the chemical pathways involved in the development of major cannabinoids that I have read has made this claim.

http://www.academia.edu/3315540/The...y_of_Cannabinoids_derived_from_Cannabis_Resin

Moreover, the daylight and normal temperatures increase the degradation processes of both Δ9–THC and CBD (cannabidinol) and subsequently increase the formation degree of CBN (cannabinol) [7]. While thedegradation of Δ9–THC to CBN seems to be of morechemical nature [8], the degradation of CBD seems to be of more biochemical nature, one of the possible degradation routs being by catalyzed (CBD-cyclase)cyclization [9].

pretty sure they both turn into CBN. but i'm just wondering if it completes the process 100% upon vaporization in the same way that THCa converts fully to Δ9-THC upon vaporization

EDIT: nevermind I think i'm wrong

Analyzing these results it can be seen that the decay degree of CBD in the first year of storage period of cannabis resin is about 17% in the case of the samples stored in the darkness at 4°C and about 19% in the case of the samples stored in the laboratory light at 22°C. These values are approximately half the difference of 40% between the decay degree of Δ9–THC and the formation degree of CBN. Hence, if the cyclization of CBD to Δ9–THC and further Δ9–THC decay of to CBN are accepted, the changes regarding the content of CBN during the storage period could be justified.

herbivore21 · Feb 13, 2016

Hmmm, strictly speaking, that quote stops short of saying that CBD degrades to CBN.

I am checking out the source they cited at (9) now, I'll let you know what it says.

EDIT:

The source cited at (9) does not make any reference whatsoever to CBN, nor cannabinol (what the abbreviation 'CBN' stands for).

Moreover, the mention of CBD cyclase is discussing a hypothesised means of synthesizing THC from CBD using the CBD Cyclase enzyme - this hypothesis has not been confirmed in clinical studies or otherwise yet.

Basically, that article which you cited above draws a very long bow in saying that CBN could come from degradation of CBN. Strictly speaking, the article they cited at (9) only describes a purported means of converting CBD to THC using a postulated enzyme that has never been shown to work experimentally.

It does not discuss any further conversion of that THC to CBN (although obviously we know about this phenomenon), but this (9) article does highlight that claims as to the possibility of CBD Cyclase converting CBD into THC (which would allow CBD to become CBN in a roundabout way) are not supported in the literature, and that the consensus is that this phenomena does not exist, with THC being derived directly from CBG (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1462421/pdf/12586720.pdf).

Basically, the problem with the claim that CBD cyclase can catalyse a reaction changing CBD into THC which could then degrade into CBN is that it has not been born out in clinical experiments. As such, that quote you gave above "if the cyclization of CBD to Δ9–THC and further Δ9–THC decay of to CBN are accepted" is suggesting that we imagine that a claim that is not supported by the evidence was accurate - it is a strange exercise indeed!

Saxondale · Feb 29, 2016

sativasam said:
Just received the CBD Brothers oil. Smells like soil and grass almost rancid smelling. They sent it with a card that has info from thier last batch analysis supposedly but it doesn't include tests for pesticides, mould, heavy metals etc. I won't be putting it in my body. Impulsive buy that I regretted as soon as I had made the purchase. I may be wrong about them. But you know what they say... if it seems to good to be true then it probably is.

From seeing the CBD Brothers product I can safely say I won't be buying any black oil/sludge from anywhere even Endoca.

Since looking for CBD oil to help with my Mums cancer, i have been recommended the CBD Brothers about 5 times. These are people who've done a lot research and need the product to be as pure and chemical free as possible. Does anyone else have experience of the product from these guys?

UK CBD concentrate myth?

Well-Known Member

NO SMOKING

Well-Known Member

NO SMOKING

Rhymenocerous ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

NO SMOKING

Well-Known Member

NO SMOKING

NO SMOKING

NO SMOKING

New Member

NO SMOKING

Well-Known Member

Herb gardener...

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member