Discontinued The Grasshopper
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Kalessin
Well-Known Member
That's what bothers me about it. They could have just said "All is well, check back in a week."
Mrbinky
Well-Known Member
At some point, there's likely to be a "race for the exit", if all this worry reaches a tipping point.
Then we will see just how much protection PayPal really provides. I'm doubtful it's more than a "fig leaf" at best. A few claims, they may pay without problem, but at some point they are going to want to limit their own liability. In which case, they might have a (somewhat) valid argument, provided by the posts on this board:
Everyone knew it was speculative, and they knowingly and willingly took the risk. Even in the face of mounting evidence, they failed to limit that risk (by asking for a refund while it was still possible, for example, and even adding to their orders in some cases.)
There is a legal principal that the consumer has a responsibility to limit their own exposure to damages whenever possible, and failure to do so limits any loss they can claim against those damages.
Basically, what I'm saying is: if you suspect that Grasshopper Labs might fail, and are holding off on canceling your order because you are counting on PayPal to "bail you out" in case they do...think again. PayPal may have legal grounds to refuse to help if they suspect that you failed to act as soon as you became aware of the risk. You basically have no right to knowingly gamble with other people's money.
Then we will see just how much protection PayPal really provides. I'm doubtful it's more than a "fig leaf" at best. A few claims, they may pay without problem, but at some point they are going to want to limit their own liability. In which case, they might have a (somewhat) valid argument, provided by the posts on this board:
Everyone knew it was speculative, and they knowingly and willingly took the risk. Even in the face of mounting evidence, they failed to limit that risk (by asking for a refund while it was still possible, for example, and even adding to their orders in some cases.)
There is a legal principal that the consumer has a responsibility to limit their own exposure to damages whenever possible, and failure to do so limits any loss they can claim against those damages.
Basically, what I'm saying is: if you suspect that Grasshopper Labs might fail, and are holding off on canceling your order because you are counting on PayPal to "bail you out" in case they do...think again. PayPal may have legal grounds to refuse to help if they suspect that you failed to act as soon as you became aware of the risk. You basically have no right to knowingly gamble with other people's money.
YaFreekin Right
Well-Known Member
I've noticed over this whole campaign that people swing from wild optimism to despair and impending doom.
I'm not worried about getting my money back should this all fail(which i don't believe it will*). If Paypal won't refund me, my credit card company will have my back, they pretty much always side with the consumer.
* I don't see these guys completely failing, GHL might not exist in it's current state should they fail to get their QC together & ship reliable units(which might I remind everyone we have No idea what the failure rate is) their tech/design will be bought up by someone else. It's disruptive technology in an industry that is going to gain huge grounds in the coming years with legalization likely to be seen in many countries.
I'm not worried about getting my money back should this all fail(which i don't believe it will*). If Paypal won't refund me, my credit card company will have my back, they pretty much always side with the consumer.
* I don't see these guys completely failing, GHL might not exist in it's current state should they fail to get their QC together & ship reliable units(which might I remind everyone we have No idea what the failure rate is) their tech/design will be bought up by someone else. It's disruptive technology in an industry that is going to gain huge grounds in the coming years with legalization likely to be seen in many countries.
shadymilkman
Well-Known Member
Since it's a known quality of how they run this ship, why let it bother you?
Much like a rocking chair, giving you something to do, while going nowhere.
Sit back relax, it's not your neck hanging out there.
Much like a rocking chair, giving you something to do, while going nowhere.
Sit back relax, it's not your neck hanging out there.
thank god it's not our neck right? but some people often would like to believe it is.
side note cant wait to get mine tehee.
Mrbinky
Well-Known Member
Yes, they do. However, there may be a limit to how long you can wait before disputing a transaction.
Have you checked what your credit card company's policy is on this? You might already be outside their limit, in which case they would have no obligation to help you.
Gandalf
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to let you guys know that my refund just came through. Very happy that they took care of my request.
Despite requesting a refund on my very late November pre-order, I am really rooting for these guys. The Grasshopper looks like an amazing product when it works. I'll happily get back in line when it seems like production is ramped up and issues are sorted out.
Despite requesting a refund on my very late November pre-order, I am really rooting for these guys. The Grasshopper looks like an amazing product when it works. I'll happily get back in line when it seems like production is ramped up and issues are sorted out.
YaFreekin Right
Well-Known Member
This just reconfirms that the sky is not falling.
I don't think it is that simple in this case otherwise people would not care so much that GHL succeeds or fails. If there were alternative products in the market no one would care but this product is revolutionary & therefore disruptive to the market.
The other big item that some may miss is the steal of a deal people are getting by being backers & pre-orders. This product is going to cost much more once it hits retail. You have to expect to give up something for the discount on the product.
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vapen00b
Many vapes & accessories. Always happy to help
Guys, I wrote GHL about 6 hours ago and received an answer just 15 mins ago:
"Hi There,
We have been swamped with assembling and shipping Grasshoppers. We will have an update for you later today.
Best,
Caroline"
At least a response for now...
"Hi There,
We have been swamped with assembling and shipping Grasshoppers. We will have an update for you later today.
Best,
Caroline"
At least a response for now...
YaFreekin Right
Well-Known Member
I've heard that argument before but I disagree. If Caroline is not answering emails she could be printing labels, putting hoppers in boxes, updating the website,etc. Basically anytime she spends answering emails she could be doing in my opinion more productive work that helps get us our hoppers quicker. It would be silly not to use canned responses since the majority of the emails are "When is my grasshopper coming?", " Why hasn't my grasshopper arrived" ,etc...
I'm sure if that was her only job Caroline could answer every little email we send her way, but more likely she's probably the one sending out address confirmations, confirming them, and sending out tracking numbers, etc. We don't know the full scope of her job but I think it's silly to assume she's just sitting there ignoring our nagging emails out or pure neglect or panic.
We see more shipping confirmations every day, and those are just the ones people post here. It's understandable that if they're finally shipping a large number of units, Caroline is very very busy. Shipping units is clearly the biggest priority.
I'm really tired of seeing everyone panic every time there's a slight gap in communication, especially when we are still seeing people receiving their hoppers every day. Keep calm, it's going to be OK.
That said, I do think refund requests should be almost as big of a priority as shipping units. These requests should not go unanswered me it's unacceptable for them to be ignored. Hopefully that will be addressed.
We see more shipping confirmations every day, and those are just the ones people post here. It's understandable that if they're finally shipping a large number of units, Caroline is very very busy. Shipping units is clearly the biggest priority.
I'm really tired of seeing everyone panic every time there's a slight gap in communication, especially when we are still seeing people receiving their hoppers every day. Keep calm, it's going to be OK.
That said, I do think refund requests should be almost as big of a priority as shipping units. These requests should not go unanswered me it's unacceptable for them to be ignored. Hopefully that will be addressed.
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hi_there
Well-Known Member
I don't blame people for panicking, for some it is the money and for others it is the principal. I don't believe they did not have time to write an update because all their last dozen or so have been very similar. It is literally 10 minutes work. More likely they are consulting with lawyers or trying to figure out how to drum up some more capital to keep them going through the QC problems.
I hope things work-out because they have the start of a great product.
PAZ
Well-Known Member
Hey there "SmallMcCartney"...I can't help but be suspect of you, your account, and you're unfounded positivity. You waited 2 years... lurking here possibly the entire time, and you NEVER felt like chiming in about your wait?
In my experience, us backers have always referred to our EXACT backing dates, as sort of a badge of pride. I've never once said "I'm an 'early December' backer." I always say "I'm a Dec 11 backer." "Early December" is the language that we've seen repeatedly in emails from GHL to backers asking why there's been yet ANOTHER delay without rational explanation.
Of course we're not "owed" an explanation, but I'm sure I speak for others as well when I kindly request GHL to stop just saying PayPal-friendly words already! We've had enough of that!
Ok, with all that being said, how in the HELL did THIS thread help you "keep the faith?" THIS thread is the place where people go to bitch about their hoppers' issues and the lack of competency in the business aspect of this situation. You obviously couldn't have been THAT frustrated with the wait, since this is your very first post here ever. How did all the complaints console you so much to the point that that you finally feel the need to chime in just ONE day after receiving your hopper? Shouldn't you be away from this thread since your hopper works "flawlessly?"
Of course your scenario is a literal possibility, but I'm just not sold on the plausibility. Not that you are required to sell me on it...but this stinks, badly. I'm very suspect of you.
Your post is the exact kind of post that a small boutique business owner might make anonymously as an attempt at damage control to calm the masses. There's likely an onslaught of refund requests happening now.
For goodness sake, your post was even made at the exact time that the updates usually go live! (just a day later)
So, Trevor, Matt, Caroline...whoever this is: what's really going on? Seriously.
My guess is y'all are waiting on ANOTHER batch of batteries (and likely outsourced parts) but you are not being forthcoming with that, since it's already been reported that ALL parts are in stock. Who in their right mind will preorder something knowing full well the parts aren't even in stock to make it?
For the record I also still think GHL is only getting a handful of heaters made at a time.
PayPal policy has been broken, and some shady shit is going down to try and skirt the grey areas of that.
I really, REALLY hope I'm wrong.
Really? I thought this is the type of post that we don't find on FC, we find these types of post on Reddit. Message a mod if you think it's the manufacturer posting from an alternate account, not like this. There's been other vapes who had a fairly good following from FC only to have their reputation crash down on them because of this exact thing you're accusing the GH team of doing.
Also, just because you and a few others believe that you know your exact backing date, doesn't mean everyone does. I was a november backer, and I actually thought I backed in december until I received my confirmation e-mail and realized I backed in mid November. No way in hell did I remember my exact date.
It's really simple how people could keep the faith. By the constant reviews saying that they were nervous/thinking of backing out/etc. until they got their hands on the vape. Then all of that went away and they raved about the GH. It's understandable that backers without a Grasshopper are upset, frustrated, and concerned due to the long wait and no update. But this type of post isn't the way to let it out.
I'll take back what I said if the FC mods do deem this poster as a GH team trying to do some PR control, but until that happens, I believe you're attacking a member of FC for no other reason besides venting your frustration.
ominosity
Well-Known Member
Hey Everyone,
This update is a few days late due to the arrival of a new machine here at Hopper Labs. We’ve been working nonstop to get it installed and wanted to make sure we had the time to provide a full update. The Grasshopper campaign is nearing the end. We still have accessories to fulfill, but there are now only about 300 backers left without Hoppers and those will be shipping very soon.
The new machine mentioned is a computer controlled laser welder which allows for greater reliability and five to six time the throughput during the welding process. We needed to machine custom jigs and tweak the welding profile to get it operational but after a few days of work it is now online. Further recent improvements include the hiring of another assembly tech and streamlining of our in-house shipping interface. We are methodically increasing the throughput and repeatability of each process involved in building the Grasshopper.
We know each of you backed the campaign to support something new and different. The Grasshopper is different from any other large scale consumer product. With over 75 minutes of in-house assembly time going into each unit we are looking over every detail. Each member of the team contributes in the construction and shipping of every Grasshopper. It was designed with the singular idea of building the best device possible and we have put in an insane amount of effort to make building it possible.
It has been a long road and we thank you for your support and patience during development. We set out with a lofty set of design goals and have met nearly all of them. We know there are some problems with early units and we have been making tweaks since day one to resolve them. In offering a lifetime warranty we are holding ourselves to the highest possible standard of design and construction. It is incredibly hard to get everything perfect right out of the gate but we are committed to providing a lasting experience and will replace anything that is not working correctly.
We hope everyone has a great New Year’s and we will be back on the 1st with another project update.
Trevor and the Grasshopper Team.
This update is a few days late due to the arrival of a new machine here at Hopper Labs. We’ve been working nonstop to get it installed and wanted to make sure we had the time to provide a full update. The Grasshopper campaign is nearing the end. We still have accessories to fulfill, but there are now only about 300 backers left without Hoppers and those will be shipping very soon.
The new machine mentioned is a computer controlled laser welder which allows for greater reliability and five to six time the throughput during the welding process. We needed to machine custom jigs and tweak the welding profile to get it operational but after a few days of work it is now online. Further recent improvements include the hiring of another assembly tech and streamlining of our in-house shipping interface. We are methodically increasing the throughput and repeatability of each process involved in building the Grasshopper.
We know each of you backed the campaign to support something new and different. The Grasshopper is different from any other large scale consumer product. With over 75 minutes of in-house assembly time going into each unit we are looking over every detail. Each member of the team contributes in the construction and shipping of every Grasshopper. It was designed with the singular idea of building the best device possible and we have put in an insane amount of effort to make building it possible.
It has been a long road and we thank you for your support and patience during development. We set out with a lofty set of design goals and have met nearly all of them. We know there are some problems with early units and we have been making tweaks since day one to resolve them. In offering a lifetime warranty we are holding ourselves to the highest possible standard of design and construction. It is incredibly hard to get everything perfect right out of the gate but we are committed to providing a lasting experience and will replace anything that is not working correctly.
We hope everyone has a great New Year’s and we will be back on the 1st with another project update.
Trevor and the Grasshopper Team.
Reliable ShotZ
Active Member
I ordered mine on march 11th, I may just be in with a chance of getting mine by January. They were definitely trying to get all the backers finished and give us a better update, but upon witnessing all the hostility changed their minds. When updates include numbers, it gives us customers more transparency and certainly makes me feel more at ease.
IAmKrazy2
Darth Vapor
Pre-ordered a GH on April 18th and a Zion on June 28th -- let the race begin! Weather prediction - 2016 first quarter to be very cloudy (but in a good way)!
I ordered my first GH in April and preordered the Zion in June too. I expect the Zion first, but either way i think it will be a pretty fun combination between the both of them.
I think a long time ago in a Galaxy far far away these two companies even talked about doing a future vape together. No joke.
Harmoniousliving
Well-Known Member
No joke ??that would be Krazy
TeeJay1952
Well-Known Member
Zihopper or Grassion?