next generation e-nails?

mixchu69 · Nov 22, 2015

herbivore21 said:
Welcome man! Good time to ask questions when you're getting started

Please avoid Ti nails, they are just flatly inferior tasting to every other option, require seasoning (some other nails do not!) too.

I see you want torch compatibility as well as enail. I would suggest that you check out a SiC halo on a d-nail slim series base. You can snag this combo up for $120 USD right now on the d-nail website.

The reason I recommend SiC (and I have used many, many quartz and ti nails as well as SiC, ceramic and sapphire, owning at least one of most of these now!) is that for torching, it gets you the most consistent results - hands down. I recently had a heater coil die and had stupidly sold off my spare one. This left me back on the torch for almost a month! This is a big deal for me especially since I only dab very high quality material (check out the full melt bubble hash in my avatar for example!). I am only gonna dab something like this on a surface that I know isn't going to obscure the wonderful flavor profile.

If I didn't have SiC, I wouldn't have continued dabbing my preferred high end oils as I would not be confident of dialling in the torch warm up time and cool down properly - you don't wanna accidentally dab too hot or too cold when it comes to this kind of material! Too hot is an especially unfortunate shame!

Due to the superior thermal properties of SiC, you will get the same results with torch dabs every time without needing to use any kind of thermometer to ensure the right temp! D-nail even give you charts and instructions for how long to torch for and how long of a cooldown to have to get your desired temp in degrees f/c.

SiC does need to be torched for longer than other materials; but the beauty of this is that the torching during heat up should almost clean your nail good as new every time you heat it up for a dab! Combine this with qtip wipe after each dab and it'll stay looking new for plenty of time

I don't recommend quartz for people using torches (yes yes I know they all say that you can use quartz for torching and that is true, but it won't last as long as if you didn't). Since torching is by it's nature not the most exact of sciences, this reduces the lifespan of your quartz - better to avoid this if you know that torching is what you wanna do! I do not like most quartz because of problems with pooling of dabs and inability to do the tastiest low temp dabs because of this issue. The d-nail quartz halo is great in resolving this somewhat because of the machined surface designed to evenly spread your dab in a thin film for quicker boiling. If you weren't going to torch at all, I might have recommended this option

I have actually used a 710whip heater with a SiC halo, it worked pretty well! Had to use a titanium washer that I had spare from my sapphire halo on top of the heater to keep it in place though. Still, you can get Darid (Mr. 710whip himself) to make you a custom purpose made flat coil that'll attach to whatever controller you want to use

Hope this helps man, I know having a coupon might be tempting but remember, ti nails were old tech before you had started dabbing (at least from the sound of it!).

Had a quick question. I know you don't like titanium, but doesn't the sic have a titanium nut and can't help but think the oil will hit some of the titanium. For this reason, I want to try the sic torch nail. No titanium and don't need to buy flat heater. I am trying to stop buying all the new and best (end up using only half and have a lot that sit on the bench). Any thoughts? Since I only use my pb direct inject and love it, I need a backup with Quartz (broke an expensive Quartz nail already).

How is the Quartz halo different than the pukinbeagle Quartz?

MPZ · Nov 22, 2015

mixchu69 said:
Had a quick question. I know you don't like titanium, but doesn't the sic have a titanium nut and can't help but think the oil will hit some of the titanium. For this reason, I want to try the sic torch nail. No titanium and don't need to buy flat heater. I am trying to stop buying all the new and best (end up using only half and have a lot that sit on the bench). Any thoughts? Since I only use my pb direct inject and love it, I need a backup with Quartz (broke an expensive Quartz nail already).

How is the Quartz halo different than the pukinbeagle Quartz?

The SiC does have a titanium nut, but if you look at the design, you would have to either put an insane amount of oil in it, or mess up where you were putting the oil for any of it to actually vaporize on the titanium. The SiC torch nail does look awesome though

As far as the quartz halo being different from the pukinbeagle,

http://www.d-nail.com/info/science/wik/

Is the biggest difference.

Hope that Helps!

heady blunts · Nov 22, 2015

weeeeeee!!! i pulled the trigger on the slim series with a sic halo!

thanks again @herbivore21 @alittledabwilldoya' and @MileHighLife !

alittledabwilldoya' · Nov 22, 2015

^^^ Sweet!

I'm debating on whether to pick up just another nail base (slim line this time) so I'll have two complete nails, or two slim lines and another SiC dish for travel.
Which would give me two nails for home and one for travel; no moving shit around.

Thank God ski season is starting so I can start dumping out my wallet on another pastime.

herbivore21 · Nov 22, 2015

MPZ said:
Sorry about the late reply, I managed to get food poisoning and have been asleep all day

Anyways, I'm really glad you wrote this, as along with my flower adapter from D-nail I am also going to be ordering a nail for my best friend (belated birthday present)- he had a purple heart wood D-nail for about a year (with quartz and TI), but for whatever reason it started to hurt his throat to use it. He used Mothership buckets for awhile, but for the past year he has been using club bangers exclusively (he just got some XL club bangers actually). Since I'm making an order with D-nail anyways (and thus paying shipping), I figured I would scoop him a nail (for torch use) while I was at it. I decided to spoil the surprise and tell him for the sake of finding out whether he would prefer SiC or Quartz- and for whatever reason he isn't nearly as interested in the SiC.

I suppose this shouldn't be too much of a surprise to me given that he has used quartz exclusively for years now, but I would hate for him to never try the SiC when it's possible that it would be the right nail for him. On the other hand, I believe I have seen a few people say things along the lines of "the quartz is smoother" and smoothness is a huge priority to him (and the reason he's back to torching). But then, perhaps it's actually a lack of vapor density in the quartz (due to its thermal properties) that makes it work for him. I'm confident that the Wik surface of the quartz halo has the potential to be an upgrade for him (he gets lots of pooling), but I want him to have a chance to try the SiC...

I guess, all that being said, what I need to know is whether the SiC can (via low temperature or bigger rips) be made to deliver smoother, less dense hits, or whether its excellent thermal conductivity simply means it's going to boil the oil at a higher temperature under all circumstances.

On the other hand, the SiC is on sale now, so I should really just suck it up and buy him both. It's just that as a student with a work-study job i don't have much time/opportunity to make money... and I'm buying myself a d-nail, lotus adapter, and a rig... it all adds up.

As far as different extraction methodologies go, your experiences seem to line up with mine. I'm certainly no expert, as I have only tried a couple different oils (and only Tetra Labs Pure Gold more than once), but so far I have found that pure gold (basically no terps, though plenty of limonene- which they essentially add to stabilize it) can give a racy high, while the Co2 oil I tried was more along the lines of something to help with sleep. I can't comment on the effects of full melt (the one i tried had mold- so I felt like crap) but it definitely had a flavor profile different from any other oil I have tried.

I find the physics and chemistry of different extraction methods carrying through different terpene/cannabanoid profiles really interesting. Based on what I've read and the discussions I've had with some knowledgeable people, you might try your Qwet/Qwiso extractions at a lower temperature if you can manage it- this should in theory keep any water present frozen and prevent it from picking up impurities. Also I have read a few people online reporting more terps/better flavor, especially when doing the extraction at below 0 degrees. Given that at least some terps are volatile enough to evaporate at room temperature (And thus smell), it makes sense to me that heat is the enemy when extracting with alcohols.

It's unfortunate in a sense that terpenes are so dang volatile- it seems like the smallest thing can change which ones remain present. And then of course, different people prefer different terpene profiles based on the effect/vaporizing experience they want. For example, my best friend only seems to like the terpene profile of high-grade BHO- but then again I don't know if he's had other types of extracts at the same quality level as the BHO he buys. It also might be the case that the biggest reason for his BHO preference is its smoothness when vaporizing it.

I do wonder if your friend was dabbing too hot, but it's a shame he stopped using his wooden d-nail. If he still has his dnail, you should get him to give the temp drop method a shot

I use this method sometimes with full melt (which requires hotter temps to melt up at first, but lower temps towards the end of the hit to not overcook the little contaminant that is left on the nail). This tek does rely on the slower heatup/cool down time of the 1.2 D-nail controller vs the faster 2.0 (not sure it'll work with 2.0 very well).

Start with your temp at where you need it at the hottest point to melt up your material, then just before dabbing, set the temp 50-60f lower and immediately start your dab. This will emulate the slow cooldown of your nail when torched and I use this routinely with SiC for the smoothest hits possible.

My new sapphire halo will be here within a week or so with a bit of luck though so my foray into SiC and Quartz will be over at that point lol.

Quartz is unequivocally harsher on the throat than SiC IME (this goes for the halos too!). This is because SiC will be functional and useful at FAR lower temperatures than the quartz (seriously 50-100f lower temps are reasonable on the SiC vs quartz). The quartz nail can achieve a nicer taste for sure than SiC (only at very low temps though, and SiC is way more forgiving in terms of being less harsh and nasty tasting if you accidentally dab too hot), but is harsher on the throat.

The wik surface is a massive upgrade to quartz and makes a huge difference, I have found that by comparison even the most expensive >$250 quartz nails with no wik surface pool and don't achieve nice flavors unless it is cool enough to pool significantly.

Tell your friend that as someone who has dabbed on the very finest and most expensive, many thousands of dollars worth of various nails, SiC leaves traditional quartz for dead, and even machined quartz vs SiC is a tradeoff without a clear winner IME.

Regardless, SiC is the unequivocal king of low temp hits on an enail heater. It is the only nail with any function to speak of around or even below 500f. This owes to the superior heat distribution minimizing dabbing 'deadspots' where there isn't enough heat on that part of the dish to boil the material (btw, the side of the quartz halo dish is one such dab deadspot, do not get your dab around the outer sides of the inside of the dish or it will take a hell of a lot longer to get your dab to boil - SiC does not get this dab deadspot in the same way, even at lower temps due to superior conductivity). I really think SiC is what your friend needs for super mega low temp dabs.

BTW, thanks for the advice, but I've already tried the lowest possible temps possible for purge, I am a scientist (once was a student like you, which makes the money issues very relateable lol) and long ago developed my own proprietary hotplates etc - also have a thorough understanding of the physics of vacuum. The long and the short of solvent extraction is that however you go about it, heat or pressure, the removal of the solvent leads to loss of some terps.

This is why I am more into full melt now, cooler production = more terp retention. This is why we see test results for BHO average 4% and max out at 9% or so terps whilst I've seen various full melts test at 10-14%+! Of course, GC is a potential confounding variable due to the heats used in terp panels from some major test facilities.

As someone who has isolated pure THCA fractions before, I know that most stoner's pre-occupation with THC is misguided and that lower THC but higher terp % bubble vs winterized solvent extracts with more THC and less terps are more effective for my needs, also more enjoyable on the flavor front. Straight THC is just not actually that enjoyable alone (should come as no surprise, look at the results of the trials with marinol lol). I do make my own extracts though so can take the extra time to ensure I avoid mold and such. Have you ever considered making your own btw?

TBC (POST TOO LONG)

herbivore21 · Nov 22, 2015

Continued...

mixchu69 said:
Had a quick question. I know you don't like titanium, but doesn't the sic have a titanium nut and can't help but think the oil will hit some of the titanium. For this reason, I want to try the sic torch nail. No titanium and don't need to buy flat heater. I am trying to stop buying all the new and best (end up using only half and have a lot that sit on the bench). Any thoughts? Since I only use my pb direct inject and love it, I need a backup with Quartz (broke an expensive Quartz nail already).

How is the Quartz halo different than the pukinbeagle Quartz?

If you are only gonna use it for torching, definitely give the torch only SiC a whirl, why not?

Still, I can report that you are no way getting your dab onto that Ti retaining nut on the enail halos unless you're really not paying attention when dabbing

Even shovelling large hits of full melt into the halo with a large tool, it is easy enough to avoid this. I actually do wonder if D-nail designed the halos to be larger than other nails to avoid people who like big dabs getting any of the dab onto the ti nut?

Onto the quartz; the quartz halo tastes far superior to all of the 100% quartz nails that I have dabbed on in the past (which as we know, ranges from the very cheap to those far more expensive than the halo like PB Deep Dish Banger etc).

Oh man had to commiserate and recognize that breaking expensive quartz is a tearjerker too! I still remember breaking my 20mm DI PB nail ages ago!

The major difference between quartz halo vs all other quartz is less pooling due to machined wicking surface. Of course, this is moot if you dab around the outer edge of the inside of the dish instead of the floor of the dish (#protip), where heat is not so well distributed. Still, the dish is big enough that you can dab even the biggest snake so that it only hits the floor of the dish and avoids the outer edge problem. Those doing super big dabs should go SiC over quartz nonetheless (less dab deadspot).

Even the most expensive quartz like PB with no wicking is stuff I would consider last gen tech these days because pooling is a dealbreaker IMO. Quartz halo should be the only quartz anyone is considering buying just now (who knows what might be done with quartz in the future though - this could change!). It is cheaper than a lot of very expensive but nonetheless inferior models and clearly superior by a long shot to those ultra cheap nails that are cheaper than the halo! Hope this helps a bit with your question man

MPZ said:
The SiC does have a titanium nut, but if you look at the design, you would have to either put an insane amount of oil in it, or mess up where you were putting the oil for any of it to actually vaporize on the titanium. The SiC torch nail does look awesome though

As far as the quartz halo being different from the pukinbeagle,

http://www.d-nail.com/info/science/wik/

Is the biggest difference.

Hope that Helps!

Most def, my man here is right on both counts. It would be an heroic sized dab that overflows onto the Ti nut lol

heady blunts said:
weeeeeee!!! i pulled the trigger on the slim series with a sic halo!

thanks again @herbivore21 @alittledabwilldoya' and @MileHighLife !

Nice one brother! You won't be disappointed, can't wait to see what you think

alittledabwilldoya' said:
^^^ Sweet!

I'm debating on whether to pick up just another nail base (slim line this time) so I'll have two complete nails, or two slim lines and another SiC dish for travel.
Which would give me two nails for home and one for travel; no moving shit around.

Thank God ski season is starting so I can start dumping out my wallet on another pastime.

Oh man, extras for travel are amazing and well worth the investment! Saves so much time not to have to turn off your home rig and disconnect it all when heading out!

mixchu69 · Nov 23, 2015

herbivore21 said:
Continued...

If you are only gonna use it for torching, definitely give the torch only SiC a whirl, why not?

Still, I can report that you are no way getting your dab onto that Ti retaining nut on the enail halos unless you're really not paying attention when dabbing Even shovelling large hits of full melt into the halo with a large tool, it is easy enough to avoid this. I actually do wonder if D-nail designed the halos to be larger than other nails to avoid people who like big dabs getting any of the dab onto the ti nut?

Onto the quartz; the quartz halo tastes far superior to all of the 100% quartz nails that I have dabbed on in the past (which as we know, ranges from the very cheap to those far more expensive than the halo like PB Deep Dish Banger etc).

Oh man had to commiserate and recognize that breaking expensive quartz is a tearjerker too! I still remember breaking my 20mm DI PB nail ages ago!

The major difference between quartz halo vs all other quartz is less pooling due to machined wicking surface. Of course, this is moot if you dab around the outer edge of the inside of the dish instead of the floor of the dish (#protip), where heat is not so well distributed. Still, the dish is big enough that you can dab even the biggest snake so that it only hits the floor of the dish and avoids the outer edge problem. Those doing super big dabs should go SiC over quartz nonetheless (less dab deadspot).

Even the most expensive quartz like PB with no wicking is stuff I would consider last gen tech these days because pooling is a dealbreaker IMO. Quartz halo should be the only quartz anyone is considering buying just now (who knows what might be done with quartz in the future though - this could change!). It is cheaper than a lot of very expensive but nonetheless inferior models and clearly superior by a long shot to those ultra cheap nails that are cheaper than the halo! Hope this helps a bit with your question man

Most def, my man here is right on both counts. It would be an heroic sized dab that overflows onto the Ti nut lol

Nice one brother! You won't be disappointed, can't wait to see what you think

Oh man, extras for travel are amazing and well worth the investment! Saves so much time not to have to turn off your home rig and disconnect it all when heading out!

Helps out a lot. I think I'm going sic first for durability.

herbivore21 · Nov 23, 2015

mixchu69 said:
Helps out a lot. I think I'm going sic first for durability.

Good idea bro, especially if it is your only nail or you intend to move it about, durability is a big consideration!

heady blunts · Nov 23, 2015

they're sold out of the v2 cap. should I look at my lhs? I know a properly fitting carb cap is essential. are there other good options?

herbivore21 · Nov 23, 2015

heady blunts said:
they're sold out of the v2 cap. should I look at my lhs? I know a properly fitting carb cap is essential. are there other good options?

I've heard that the hive one is a good fit, but I have not seen this for myself. Perhaps call d-nail to confirm before ordering?

MPZ · Nov 23, 2015

herbivore21 said:
I do wonder if your friend was dabbing too hot, but it's a shame he stopped using his wooden d-nail. If he still has his dnail, you should get him to give the temp drop method a shot

I use this method sometimes with full melt (which requires hotter temps to melt up at first, but lower temps towards the end of the hit to not overcook the little contaminant that is left on the nail). This tek does rely on the slower heatup/cool down time of the 1.2 D-nail controller vs the faster 2.0 (not sure it'll work with 2.0 very well).

Start with your temp at where you need it at the hottest point to melt up your material, then just before dabbing, set the temp 50-60f lower and immediately start your dab. This will emulate the slow cooldown of your nail when torched and I use this routinely with SiC for the smoothest hits possible.

My new sapphire halo will be here within a week or so with a bit of luck though so my foray into SiC and Quartz will be over at that point lol.

Quartz is unequivocally harsher on the throat than SiC IME (this goes for the halos too!). This is because SiC will be functional and useful at FAR lower temperatures than the quartz (seriously 50-100f lower temps are reasonable on the SiC vs quartz). The quartz nail can achieve a nicer taste for sure than SiC (only at very low temps though, and SiC is way more forgiving in terms of being less harsh and nasty tasting if you accidentally dab too hot), but is harsher on the throat.

The wik surface is a massive upgrade to quartz and makes a huge difference, I have found that by comparison even the most expensive >$250 quartz nails with no wik surface pool and don't achieve nice flavors unless it is cool enough to pool significantly.

Tell your friend that as someone who has dabbed on the very finest and most expensive, many thousands of dollars worth of various nails, SiC leaves traditional quartz for dead, and even machined quartz vs SiC is a tradeoff without a clear winner IME.

Regardless, SiC is the unequivocal king of low temp hits on an enail heater. It is the only nail with any function to speak of around or even below 500f. This owes to the superior heat distribution minimizing dabbing 'deadspots' where there isn't enough heat on that part of the dish to boil the material (btw, the side of the quartz halo dish is one such dab deadspot, do not get your dab around the outer sides of the inside of the dish or it will take a hell of a lot longer to get your dab to boil - SiC does not get this dab deadspot in the same way, even at lower temps due to superior conductivity). I really think SiC is what your friend needs for super mega low temp dabs.

BTW, thanks for the advice, but I've already tried the lowest possible temps possible for purge, I am a scientist (once was a student like you, which makes the money issues very relateable lol) and long ago developed my own proprietary hotplates etc - also have a thorough understanding of the physics of vacuum. The long and the short of solvent extraction is that however you go about it, heat or pressure, the removal of the solvent leads to loss of some terps.

This is why I am more into full melt now, cooler production = more terp retention. This is why we see test results for BHO average 4% and max out at 9% or so terps whilst I've seen various full melts test at 10-14%+! Of course, GC is a potential confounding variable due to the heats used in terp panels from some major test facilities.

As someone who has isolated pure THCA fractions before, I know that most stoner's pre-occupation with THC is misguided and that lower THC but higher terp % bubble vs winterized solvent extracts with more THC and less terps are more effective for my needs, also more enjoyable on the flavor front. Straight THC is just not actually that enjoyable alone (should come as no surprise, look at the results of the trials with marinol lol). I do make my own extracts though so can take the extra time to ensure I avoid mold and such. Have you ever considered making your own btw?

TBC (POST TOO LONG)

@herbivore21
Lol That's what I get for posting before morning coffee. What I was getting at with regards to low temperatures for Qwet/Qwiso was the temperature of the extraction, not the purging. Given how volatile terps are, it is a given some will be lost with purging (as you say). I don't know nearly enough chemistry to back up this idea, it's just something I encountered over and over again when I was looking into doing my own Qwet. For example, this guy (http://rainierdistillers.com/distillers/Cannabis-Oil-Stills.shtml) (

) is quoting 12% terpenes doing sub-zero ethanol extractions as far as I can tell. Also, I know someone with some extraction experience (who studied organic chemistry and is getting a masters in toxicology atm) who agreed that it helps. The simplest way to get temps down would probably be to use dry ice. I'd love to chat more about extraction, but I should probably send you a PM to not drag this thread off topic.

About the nails, thankfully this is my best friend I am buying for, so he trusts me- he won't be put out if I get him the SiC instead of the quarts because I believe it will work better for him. I think what I;m going to do is link him some of your posts in this thread- but at this point I'm thinking I should just get him the SiC torch nail (especially given how if I pay just $20 extra he also gets a Hive ceramic nail). I will just have to check with D-nail to make sure their TI carb cap also fits it (he still has 2

Now I'm just wondering why at least one person has said that the quartz disc seems to create finer vapor particles... but then perhaps that comparison was at the same temperature, which under utilizes the thermal conductivity of the SiC.

My friend has plenty of Quave and Mothership Quartz at the moment, that he uses at low enough temperature to get plenty of pooling- so I was originally thinking the Quartz halo would get him a bump in flavor and save him some oil (less pooling losses). But recently he told me that he cares about smoothness more than anything- so if he can save the same or more oil and get smoother rips due to faster vaporization and lower temperatures, that's an even bigger win.

Hmm... I suppose I should actually ask my friend if he wants the SiC torch nail+hive ceramic nail, or the SiC halo on a slim series (and thus the possibility of trying out the machined quartz). Or maybe I will just bend the budget and get him the slim+both halos.

I really can't thank you enough Herbivore! you're ensuring I get maximum value from the hundreds I am about to spend on D-nail equipment :clap:

Do tell about that Sapphire Halo when you get ahold of it! :rockon:

Edit: I didn't know linking youtube automatically embedded it on this forum. Welp, I hope no one considers that video tooo off topic

heady blunts · Nov 23, 2015

I'm working my way backwards through the thread---new questions!

herbivore21 said:
Ohhh I should say I take the dish off to minimize oxidative degradation of ti from torching, still you could torch it altogether with the base attached and just keep the flame on the sic carefully, just ensure that you detach your heater coil before torching

if I'm torch heating my dish, I can't take it off the nail. do I need to change my torching technique? I've been blasting my banger til it glows then waiting for it to come down to temp.

MileHighLife said:
FYI the Hive carb cap with stinger works great with the SiC dish. It's about 31mm dia. and the SiC dish is about 27mm dia. Couldn't find that info anywhere so thought I'd share.

good tip thanks! is it still your cap of choice for the sic dish?

MileHighLife · Nov 23, 2015

heady blunts said:
I'm working my way backwards through the thread---new questions!

if I'm torch heating my dish, I can't take it off the nail. do I need to change my torching technique? I've been blasting my banger til it glows then waiting for it to come down to temp.

good tip thanks! is it still your cap of choice for the sic dish?

It's my back-up but it works well with the halo dishes. The D-Nail carb cap is really worth the wait imo. I believe the gen 2 carb cap is supposed to be in stock this week .. maybe contact d-nail and see if it'll be in stock soon.

Or if you just want to go with the hive cap it's much cheaper on ebay than through d-nail.

slowandsteady · Nov 23, 2015

MileHighLife said:
It's my back-up but it works well with the halo dishes. The D-Nail carb cap is really worth the wait imo. I believe the gen 2 carb cap is supposed to be in stock this week .. maybe contact d-nail and see if it'll be in stock soon.

Or if you just want to go with the hive cap it's much cheaper on ebay than through d-nail.

Do you find a difference in taste between the two carb caps on the same D-Nail halo?

MileHighLife · Nov 23, 2015

slowandsteady said:
Do you find a difference in taste between the two carb caps on the same D-Nail halo?

No difference in taste on the halos. I can tell that the D-Nail carb cap helps vaporize the oil much more completely and provides thicker hits. I feel this is due to the vortex action produced by the d-nail cap. IMO right now the domeless.com nail with either the iDab or Hive carb caps produce the tastiest low temp dabs. The domeless.com nails aren't as high tech and cool looking as the d-nail nails and they sit a little sketchy in 14mm female joints but they provide just as big of hits as a SiC Halo IME with better flavor.

I have been using the D-Nail sapphire inserts quite a bit recently and have been thinking more into the physics at work with the insert in a halo dish. I don't know where the idea of sapphire dabs being convection dabs came from but it sounded wrong from the get go to me. My theory is that if we are leaving the sapphire insert on the nail and dabbing off the surface we are simply doing typical conduction dabs. We need to run the heat higher on the coil because the sapphire is heated through the titanium/SiC dish but there is no hot air being pulled over the dab. In fact room temp air is being pulled in through the carb cap hole. Loading the sapphire insert before dropping it onto a halo nail is a whole different experience, though, and I think this is where the confusion happened. When we load the insert before hand and drop it on the nail we are still pulling room temp air over the insert meaning this is not a convection dab and it's not conduction either because the dab isn't being dropped onto an already heated surface. My conclusion is that we are doing thermal radiation dabs when using the loaded insert, drop method. Let me know what you guys think. To me convection dabs would be done using the flower attachment or a flower vape.

Monsoon · Nov 23, 2015

heady blunts said:
they're sold out of the v2 cap. should I look at my lhs? I know a properly fitting carb cap is essential. are there other good options?

They're supposed to be getting a small order of v2 carb caps in stock this week, me or someone else will post here as soon as they're up. Definitely worth it, fits like a glove and won't fall off during your hit.

mrbonsai420 · Nov 23, 2015

MPZ said:
Hey everyone,

Could i get some guidance on which D-nail option is best for extremely low temperature hits? Right now I'm actually favoring a convection approach to my oil- I have a Kind MD SSlim ceramic cartridge, which is a directly heated custom ceramic disc atomizer that comes with a Ti2 wick/screen that can float above it for pseudo-convection vaping, or you can remove it and put oil directly on the ceramic. I definitely prefer the effects profile on the convection approach, so I am actually waiting to hear back from the D-nail engineers (probably meaning Brian himself) on using the Lotus flower adapter with oil (using a ti2 screen- probably the one from the errlectric flower adapter ironically). I'm just not sure if i should be considering the Sic, Quartz halo, or Sapphire shelf (or even the hive ceramic) instead.

I should clarify that when I say low temperature I mean under 500f. With my current e-cig mod based setup, I actually use its "temperature control/limiting" setting (which modulates power to the heater based on its resistance and temperature coefficient of resistance) which automatically pulses power to the coil (basically it does a preheat then cuts power in and out every few seconds). So I suspect the Lotus adapter is what I want, but I could be wrong.

I'm also wondering how the Auber 200/300 compare to the D-nail 1.2 control unit. My best friend has volunteered to help me put together a DIY D-nail 1.2, so the price difference is only around $100. The priority for me is accurate temperature regulation- can the auber actually match the D-nail on this?

Thanks,
MPZ

P.S. @mrbonsai420 Your opinion on flat vs barrel actually makes sense to me from a thermodynamic standpoint (not that I'm a physics expert lol)- With a flat coil, one of the ramifications of the design is that you're going to have just slightly uneven contact/pressure between the coil and nail at varying positions, whearas with a barrel coil, the heat has to propogate through the nail from below. (so you trade efficiency for more homogenized heat propogation). That being said, I find it interesting that D-nail seems to be moving all their designs towards flat coils- perhaps this possible issue is mitigated by the precision of their connection between flat coil and nail- in which case i imagine it's a big win for thermal efficiency.

Don't you guys think the barrel coil surrounding the quartz/sic cup on the Liger would be the ultimate low temp convection dab over? D-Nail flat coils heat via conduction except the floating sapphire and that eventually drips down. The only full convection nail I have found is this Liger. Wouldn't you guys agree?

I don't dab in the under 500 range but I would bet the Liger V2.0 with a barrel coil would be your best bet for an enail to hit well under 500. The convection dab oven created by the Liger seems like it would be perfect for that.

alittledabwilldoya' · Nov 23, 2015

herbivore21 said:
Very nice!! The rig and nail go together well (especially with a clean of that claim ). Glad you're enjoying the quartz halo man

Thanks!
Update: Clean rig, dirty Halo.

:lol:

rolln_j said:
[USER=26279]@alittledabwilldoya' man that looks so friggin cool - like its an extension of the rig (a cleaner one but still lol) - I have the same base that I am using with my SiC - yours looks so good makes me wonder if I even need the slimline

are you happy with how snug that 14/18m base holds your nail? is it ok to use the titanium carb caps with the quartz?

[/USER]

Thank you as well!
The V1.3 base holds the nail well, but I'm going to pick one (or two) 1.4s shortly.
Carb-cap fits both Halos snuggly; would recommend.

tylerj55 · Nov 23, 2015

Hey so if anybody is like me and are desperately awaiting the arrival of the D-Nail carb cap for the halo nails, I found out last night that the little glass jars that come with Micro G-Pens fits perfectly on top. This is what I have been doing and it's been working great! I love this Quartz halo but I think I actually liked my SiC more.. Still beyond happy with it though!!! :rofl:

Really wish I had one of these Liger nails, but I just spent too much on my new nail/new mobius piece.

*edit* I will provide pics of what I mean when I get home if my instructions weren't clear enough.. Just let me know if you want them or not!

herbivore21 · Nov 23, 2015

mrbonsai420 said:
Don't you guys think the barrel coil surrounding the quartz/sic cup on the Liger would be the ultimate low temp convection dab over? D-Nail flat coils heat via conduction except the floating sapphire and that eventually drips down. The only full convection nail I have found is this Liger. Wouldn't you guys agree?

I don't dab in the under 500 range but I would bet the Liger V2.0 with a barrel coil would be your best bet for an enail to hit well under 500. The convection dab oven created by the Liger seems like it would be perfect for that.

Flat coils are better than barrel coils. There is a simple reason for this:

Many will remember that especially in the early days of enails, most cheap quartz enails were shit because the floor of the dish would just pool up with liquid oil that takes forever to boil or didn't ever fully vaporize!

This was a combined result of the inefficiency of a barrel coil (where the heat is being applied to the sides of the dish, not the floor where your dab is going!) and the fact that the floor of the dish in these shitty cheap quartz nails was below the sides of the dish where the barrel coil makes contact with the nail. Moreover, heat rises. This means that any conduction of heat from the sides of the dish to the floor of the dish is inefficient (especially with quartz!).

Still, anyone who has used a barrel coil vs flat coil for a ceramic nail knows that barrel coils are ineffective by comparison, requiring a considerably longer heatup time. I'm basing this off my experience of the domeless.com nails, I still use their 20mm barrel adapter screwed into my dab table as a stand for my universal 2.0 carb cap, it works perfectly for this - which is fortunate as it sucked for heating my domeless.com ceramic nail lol. Ceramic is more conductive than quartz, yet barrel vs flat coil is still a significant factor!

I should remind all who are concerned about uneven distribution from the flat heater coil to the floor of the dish due to the gaps in-between the wound coil that d-nail have titanium washers to mitigate this issue. The ti washer goes on top of the flat heater coil and below the halo to even out distribution of heat across the dish. These washers come standard with the 1.4 base and first appeared with the Sapphire halo

I have used this for quite some time now and cannot go back to not using any of my halos without the ti washer! It requires a minimal extra bit of heat, probably add 20-50 degrees f to the temp with this one attached.

Finally, the sapphire insert, when used the way it was intended to be used certainly leads to convection heating! You are supposed to put the dab on the sapphire insert before it is on the nail and hot. Then you place the loaded sapphire insert on top of the ti washer with a pair of tweezers and then immediately cap and inhale air, which is heated and vortexes around the load causing it to boil. The sapphire inserts also incorporate the wik technology and unless you overload the insert, you should get no dripping onto the SiC - I never do!

Get a pair of tweezers if you use a sapphire insert with the halos people! If you are just using the insert as a conduction surface, you are much better off putting it into the infiniti large dish (or better still get the other sapphire insert with a match 1.x d-nail dish, which will give you a bigger sapphire surface to dab on).

MileHighLife · Nov 23, 2015

herbivore21 said:
Flat coils are better than barrel coils. There is a simple reason for this:

Many will remember that especially in the early days of enails, most cheap quartz enails were shit because the floor of the dish would just pool up with liquid oil that takes forever to boil or didn't ever fully vaporize!

This was a combined result of the inefficiency of a barrel coil (where the heat is being applied to the sides of the dish, not the floor where your dab is going!) and the fact that the floor of the dish in these shitty cheap quartz nails was below the sides of the dish where the barrel coil makes contact with the nail. Moreover, heat rises. This means that any conduction of heat from the sides of the dish to the floor of the dish is inefficient (especially with quartz!).

Still, anyone who has used a barrel coil vs flat coil for a ceramic nail knows that barrel coils are ineffective by comparison, requiring a considerably longer heatup time. I'm basing this off my experience of the domeless.com nails, I still use their 20mm barrel adapter screwed into my dab table as a stand for my universal 2.0 carb cap, it works perfectly for this - which is fortunate as it sucked for heating my domeless.com ceramic nail lol. Ceramic is more conductive than quartz, yet barrel vs flat coil is still a significant factor!

I should remind all who are concerned about uneven distribution from the flat heater coil to the floor of the dish due to the gaps in-between the wound coil that d-nail have titanium washers to mitigate this issue. The ti washer goes on top of the flat heater coil and below the halo to even out distribution of heat across the dish. These washers come standard with the 1.4 base and first appeared with the Sapphire halo I have used this for quite some time now and cannot go back to not using any of my halos without the ti washer! It requires a minimal extra bit of heat, probably add 20-50 degrees f to the temp with this one attached.

Finally, the sapphire insert, when used the way it was intended to be used certainly leads to convection heating! You are supposed to put the dab on the sapphire insert before it is on the nail and hot. Then you place the loaded sapphire insert on top of the ti washer with a pair of tweezers and then immediately cap and inhale air, which is heated and vortexes around the load causing it to boil. The sapphire inserts also incorporate the wik technology and unless you overload the insert, you should get no dripping onto the SiC - I never do!

Get a pair of tweezers if you use a sapphire insert with the halos people! If you are just using the insert as a conduction surface, you are much better off putting it into the infiniti large dish (or better still get the other sapphire insert with a match 1.x d-nail dish, which will give you a bigger sapphire surface to dab on).

Definitely. Tweezers are a necessity it you have sapphire inserts.

I'm still not convinced that what you're talking about is convection. The air isn't just sitting in the dish and getting hot, vortexing. Your pulling a vortex of room temp air into and through the dish.

No cap necessary

I'm no scientist but I've observed when room temp air is blown over a nail that's slowly vaporizing a dab the vapor increases as the cool air passes over it. Don't know the physics behind it but I'm pretty sure that this action and the alteration of atmospheric pressure are the 2 reasons why a carb cap works.
:peace:

thegoo · Nov 23, 2015

Hello everybody,
I received my Quartz Halo on Friday afternoon and I am sad to report that it has already broken.
I woke up Saturday morning with a crack in the dish and a peice of the inner wall missing where it touches the retaining nut.
I did not have a chance to reach out to D-nail to figure out what went wrong.
Initially after receiving the dish, I followed the cleaning instructions and installed it onto my infiiniti base
I noticed right away that the retaining nut got stuck on the dish..almost like it was locked on.
I wanted to use it right away so I just went for it and everything was great.
When I came into my living room Saturday morning the dish was all cracked and broken.
Any suggestions on how to prevent this? Or ideas on where I went wrong?
I just placed an order for a SIC dish while I try to figure this out.

slowandsteady · Nov 24, 2015

thegoo said:
Hello everybody,
I received my Quartz Halo on Friday afternoon and I am sad to report that it has already broken.
I woke up Saturday morning with a crack in the dish and a peice of the inner wall missing where it touches the retaining nut.
I did not have a chance to reach out to D-nail to figure out what went wrong.
Initially after receiving the dish, I followed the cleaning instructions and installed it onto my infiiniti base
I noticed right away that the retaining nut got stuck on the dish..almost like it was locked on.
I wanted to use it right away so I just went for it and everything was great.
When I came into my living room Saturday morning the dish was all cracked and broken.
Any suggestions on how to prevent this? Or ideas on where I went wrong?
I just placed an order for a SIC dish while I try to figure this out.

Man, sorry to hear this happened to you. I could only imagine how excited you were to put it through its paces. I wonder if the Quartz halo expanded enough when heating to apply force against the Ti retaining nut causing the crack. Hope it all gets sorted out for you.

rolln_j · Nov 24, 2015

@alittledabwilldoya' thanks for the response - the rig is looking much nicer today lol

herbivore21 said:
I should remind all who are concerned about uneven distribution from the flat heater coil to the floor of the dish due to the gaps in-between the wound coil that d-nail have titanium washers to mitigate this issue. The ti washer goes on top of the flat heater coil and below the halo to even out distribution of heat across the dish. These washers come standard with the 1.4 base and first appeared with the Sapphire halo

man I just bought a base/sic dish combo back in sept and I didnt get the TI washer - wish they would sell these as a single item... at least when I get my slim line and quartz I will have one

herbivore21 · Nov 24, 2015

rolln_j said:
@alittledabwilldoya' thanks for the response - the rig is looking much nicer today lol

man I just bought a base/sic dish combo back in sept and I didnt get the TI washer - wish they would sell these as a single item... at least when I get my slim line and quartz I will have one

Call them up bro, I'm sure they'll organize to get a separate one for you. Actually check out the ti section of the website I'm pretty sure those and the retaining lugs for the halos are listed now?

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