sickmanfraud
Well-Known Member
I remember reading Grocho Marx's biography and laughing my head off. Non-fiction can be fun!
Arizer Solo
- Thread starter Rockwise
- Start date
-
- Tags
- arizer battery powered
I remember reading Grocho Marx's biography and laughing my head off. Non-fiction can be fun!
fubar
Ancient and opiniated inhaler
OF - that looks amazing! Rube Goldberg with a soldering iron and integrated circuits!
Yes, of course, but I really like having both - a portable that works very well on the go but can be plugged in and used without risk of damaging the battery and with a substantial boost in vaping performance.
I think many agree that Arizer's decision to change over was less than ideal from a battery life point of view. I'd urge them to go back to the original engineering if anyone's listening.
Vaping is a very pragmatic and personal business. Bottom line for me is that in practice I find myself plugging in my old PA/Solo when I'm near my desk more often than I end up taking the Solo or Air outside. And, there's an EQ sitting right next to my desk - I fire it up mostly for guests.
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
I need to read that!
Jon Steward, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler I've read.
Bill Maher, Jimmy Fallon, Ricky Gervais, George Carlin, Sarah Silverman and a few others I dig!
I saw Jerry Seinfeld in Los Angeles. Great show!
Had a stem before the show however I needed more?
Kind of like COKE (soda) when they change the formula then back again where they were?
It seems like ARISER would have kept the original?
Thanks to @OF I have a GIZMO to make my old one last a long time!
Last edited:
Hot Dog Day 187
Well-Known Member
I can't tell if Jerry or the Solo is the one to blame here!
Did a stem at 3 of alien grenade today again and ended at 4!
2 new stems in the mail!
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
I ordered a couple of GonG's today.
Did some GSC very frosty on 4.........I think I was well medicated.
Jerry was OK however George Carlin will be missed!
TommydCat
Well-Known Member
They typo'd with the "back again" bit where they substituted corn for cane. Misdirection like a magic trick!
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
I need to update my w9tech gear as well.
I'll get another plug-in!
However I will keep my SOLO!
This thing with GIRL SCOUT COOKIES is incredible!
Sure there maybe haters.
CANNABIS is amazing!
When you realize this plant is the HOLY GRAIL your life will improve!!!
fubar
Ancient and opiniated inhaler
So, you've made a plug in to fit like an 18650 cell - that's amazing.
Advantage of adding PA mode to the heater circuitry for the Air is that they could probably increase the maximum power draw, being constrained by the PA rather than battery limitations?
Imagine that and a body redesign (need to shift the switch/led and fix that annoying power socket cover). Without the modular/optional battery compartment when in PA mode, the business end sits neatly on your desktop...
I'd buy one of those for sure. We'd need a new forum - Desktop and Portable!
Last edited:
blackstone
Well-Known Member
Sorry but for some reason I thought there was an early one with ceramic oven and no holes, and that that's what all the hullabaloo about draw resistance was back then and 100% of the air had to come from around the stem seal. Maybe I'm mixing up a few posts though! So it was just smaller holes then?
We guessed, at the time, that they had a lot of base plates in stock when they changed. It is confusing for sure.
OF
I think so as well, but IMO they'd have to move the jack to be really user friendly. The cord should not fight you, coming out the bottom makes more sense. At one point I considered making an adapter/insert that would replace the end cap and battery (have a cable built in. I made a couple such gadgets for the TV Cera:
This is the first version, it used an external power supply for 3.6 VDC I had 'kicking around'. Simple, worked well but kinda ugly. Version 2 was different:
I used a small switching power supply in a plastic tube in the insert part (rather than the wood dowel in the first) to convert 12 VDC to 3.6 VDC as close to the load as possible (a good idea). The velco strap lets you put a switch under your thumb since the factory bottom switch is removed. Such a switch would not be needed for Air since you could use the same power buttons. I'd go for something like this with Air I think, finding 12 VDC is pretty easy and the using runs just fine from 5 to 35 Volts in IIRC so other sources are possible.
Then again, I buy portables because they don't have cords......
OF
I did think that it was a case of surplus base plates!
Interesting to see the Cera there, those things got me interested in vaping I dunno how, they must have had a good PR campaign. Too expensive for me at the time.
I think I must have seen those pictures of yours or similar tricks/mods with a Cera a good while back
fubar
Ancient and opiniated inhaler
Eyeballing those air holes, they don't seem to grow historically between models or for that matter, in the Air - but I have no measurements to confirm.
Draw resistance has always been part of the design trade off for battery operation I think, but tight draw was a common complaint with early Solo models.
AFAIK, with stock glassware and a good seal, all incoming air has to flow between the outside wall of the stainless steel oven and the containing (?cast ceramic) structure to those holes leading into the inside of the oven and then into the stem and vegetable matter heading straight for your lungs. Presumably to heat it on the way down.
In the air, and the later solos, I'd guess (no, I have not measured) a slightly wider spacing.
It wouldn't take much to allow a lot more air flow at any given pressure - up to the limit imposed by 4 little holes.
Last edited:
OF
Well-Known Member
Actually not. If you look down the hole you'll see a gap over the top of the cup. By carefully plugging the holes on my first one with toothpick plugs I convinced myself most of the air got to the stem this way. Subjective for sure, and the current larger holes may let more air in that way, but the fiddling I did shows a lot of air comes in that way. Which is a good thing or we'd never be able to throttle it by tilting.
The seals 'break in' which allows more air (less restriction) since the path up through the bottom of the oven around the heat shield with a 180 degree downturn over the cup is the alternative. I look it as it effectively 'beats' all the restrictions up to the top of the cup. Putting an o-ring on top of the oven can defeat this 'leak' so I took to notching the ring:
You can see how I make the notches, hold it with the vice grips and slice off the part 'sticking out'. Not pretty, but effective. I later went to the notches on the 'bottom' of the ring rather than ID since that was weakening the grip on the glass which was the whole I idea of the ring to start with. IMO the notches are worth it, because the flow past the seal in important even to a guy like me that's a sipper. It restores full control?
Solo is a conduction vape. I know it's popular to think otherwise, but I'm convinced not enough heat comes in with the input air to play a significant role. There is not much real cup surface area to contact/heat the flow, and taking heat from the stem side is clearly counterproductive. This means the incoming air is below vaping temperature since the hottest part (the cup) is just barely there. For convection to work the air has to be hotter than 400F or so, and by a fair bit if you want to make much vapor. This would mean the cup would be too hot at idle. It's a very 'clean' conduction vape (design wise, what with the glass and SS only construction), easy to keep clean, but conduction it is.
And every serious vaper should have at least one.
OF
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
Time for discourse? IMO it's a hybrid of both. I think it's @poonman that uses the "tophat" screens that keep the herb away from the glass and still gets satisfactory results from it. I used one of those screens in a turbo stem so the herb was even farther away than normal and was able to get whispy mild vapor, mostly due to the fact that it was sitting way under normal use. If it relied on conduction we shouldn't have had results? For a while I used tophat screens where the only thing that ever touched the herb was the metal screens and was satisfied with it. I think it's easier and performs "better" (more vapor) when it's used 'as intended' with 'normal' screen configurations. I wouldn't call it a "true" convection vaporizer.
sickmanfraud
Well-Known Member
Actually not. If you look down the hole you'll see a gap over the top of the cup. By carefully plugging the holes on my first one with toothpick plugs I convinced myself most of the air got to the stem this way. Subjective for sure, and the current larger holes may let more air in that way, but the fiddling I did shows a lot of air comes in that way. Which is a good thing or we'd never be able to throttle it by tilting.
The seals 'break in' which allows more air (less restriction) since the path up through the bottom of the oven around the heat shield with a 180 degree downturn over the cup is the alternative. I look it as it effectively 'beats' all the restrictions up to the top of the cup. Putting an o-ring on top of the oven can defeat this 'leak' so I took to notching the ring:
You can see how I make the notches, hold it with the vice grips and slice off the part 'sticking out'. Not pretty, but effective. I later went to the notches on the 'bottom' of the ring rather than ID since that was weakening the grip on the glass which was the whole I idea of the ring to start with. IMO the notches are worth it, because the flow past the seal in important even to a guy like me that's a sipper. It restores full control?
Solo is a conduction vape. I know it's popular to think otherwise, but I'm convinced not enough heat comes in with the input air to play a significant role. There is not much real cup surface area to contact/heat the flow, and taking heat from the stem side is clearly counterproductive. This means the incoming air is below vaping temperature since the hottest part (the cup) is just barely there. For convection to work the air has to be hotter than 400F or so, and by a fair bit if you want to make much vapor. This would mean the cup would be too hot at idle. It's a very 'clean' conduction vape (design wise, what with the glass and SS only construction), easy to keep clean, but conduction it is.
And every serious vaper should have at least one.
OF
@OF, if using the Solo /Air upside down (hamster mode) and only insert the stem when drawing, is that more convection?
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
If the stem end is completely flat and it sits flat against the oven it can cover up the air through the holes. This is where tilting the Solo/stem comes in handy. Maybe lift it 1-2mm? A while back I noticed the stems for the Solo are made differently now, they have crisper sharper ends where the stem goes from small to bigger and the stem end is perfectly flat so I had to tilt more. Can you describe why it sucks? As for airpath... I'm not 100% on it so I won't comment.
Poostuff
Please delete
I was being silly but I do still have an issue with draw restriction when I use a gong. Even with an unpacked gong the draw restriction isn't unacceptable. Mine works as a sipper but i do have to sip pretty fucking hard. I was thinking air path might be a little blocked & I'd like to clean it & but I haven't been able to find any info on it.
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
GonG's are the worse design to mankind in modern history!
why the size differences?
Kind of like USB ports & other connections like cell phone and adapters!
Even WAX pens are poorly designed!
Some are 510 or 620 tread?
GREED!
Man is a GREEDY species.
Cannabis would have been legal the world over if it wasn't for man's greed!
Standard sizes? 18 or 14 mm!
I'll keep my SOLO for now however instead of changing the function standardized the thing!
CANNABIS should not be demonized due to the GREED of HOMO SAPIENS!
When I can break away from my daily routine I will go to the machine shop and make a GonG that will not break!
My rant will not be heard anyway!
CANNABIS is a weed and should be free?
However that's a different subject!
SOLO Wake & Vape with a PHVES stem and a CHIILLUM tip and GSC CANNABIS!
I'll chill out now.
Sorry for the rant!
Hot Dog Day 187
Well-Known Member
Please never apologize for your posts ataxian.
i guess the problem with the air path is when i get my first hit its difficult to get the breathing right, sometimes my lungs tremble and i pull too hard for it to work
once it works, it keeps working, and everythings good, its just that first time that makes you frustrated!
i guess the problem with the air path is when i get my first hit its difficult to get the breathing right, sometimes my lungs tremble and i pull too hard for it to work
once it works, it keeps working, and everythings good, its just that first time that makes you frustrated!
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
With a vaporizer like the Solo a steady, slow draw will get you there. If you draw too hard it will defeat the purpose. Slow and steady wins the race. Try not to pack your load, it needs airflow - the Solo is easy but you need to get the draw down.
Hot Dog Day 187
Well-Known Member
i see now i worded my post badly - too medicated - i agree entirely and the solo is easy indeed. i just meant sometimes when you're in need of medication for physical reasons it can be a lil difficult to get the first hit down right, but once you do its all good from there!
OF
Well-Known Member
I understand why guys think that, same as those that think radiation is a factor in Vapman. But Thermodynamics, least as I understand the rules, says that's not the way it happens.
Same as putting a temperature sensor into the load in Ascent showed it's conduction, you can do the same with Solo. Letting it idle lets heat seep into the load by conduction (the temperature in the core of the load 'recovers' between hits and drops during the hit. Convection works the other way. The load heats up during the hit.
And, again, making vapor takes heat energy (in calories, not degrees) making the load cool as vapor evaporates (like a swamp cooler cools your house), that heat has to be replaced (calories carried into the load). To do that by convection the air coming in has to be much hotte(so it can give up energy (cooling) and still be above the magic temperature. Only in Solo and Ascent the only source of heat is at the magic temperature, the incoming air can be no hotter and once the heat starts leaving the system it has to be less. Those are the rules. Heat flows from hot to cold. To flow to something at 390F it (the air) has to be hotter......and if you want to make significant vapor, much hotter.
Consider the sources in the true convection vapes you know. The are 'glowing hot'. The sources for T1/Evolution/Cera are about 1300F (way above 400), ESV I suspect very near that. We don't have that here.
Yes, heat moves around some locally by convection (ironically using THC vapor?), but heat enters the system by conduction. Convection, like Radiation, needs a large temperature difference to make useful vapor when the time comes. The key is to 'follow the heat flow'. It (heat energy) clearly leaves as vapor. That energy can't come from incoming air that leaves they system hotter than it came in (at the magic temperature). Hitting it cools the load. More so in the center than the edge.
This is how I did the tests:
The actual temperature sensor is the bead on the fine wires above the yellow paper. The leads go up the stem to the meter. They are 'brought out' at the top by using a silicon rubber 'drip tip' as a gasket so I could hit it. A friend borrowed my rig and repeated the experiments with his Solo (and got the same results). You can position the bead in the center (like here) or against the wall. Or anywhere in between. Like with Ascent, air drawn in robs the heat from the center more (stopping production there first).
It's conduction. Both by theory and experiment I believe. 'Follow the heat flow'
Nope. In fact since idle convection currents flow up ('warm air rises') what little convection happens 'right side up' (where heat flows up into the load slowly) is defeated since that hot air now flows away from the load (deeper into the oven) when upside down.
I get it guys like the sound of convection over conduction (perhaps driven by the idea that convection is automatically superior) but conduction is the process in MFLB, Solo, VM and other vapes praised for their taste performance. They're designed that way, and end performance is what counts, how it happens not so much so?
Regards to all.
OF
SilentRunner
Well-Known Member
I performed a similar experiment and found that the temperature of the load actually increases by about 40°C during a draw. So the incoming air is adding heat energy and not robbing the heat in the chamber like in the Ascent's design.The key is to 'follow the heat flow'. It (heat energy) clearly leaves as vapor. That energy can't come from incoming air that leaves they system hotter than it came in (at the magic temperature). Hitting it cools the load. More so in the center than the edge.
This is how I did the tests:
The actual temperature sensor is the bead on the fine wires above the yellow paper. The leads go up the stem to the meter. They are 'brought out' at the top by using a silicon rubber 'drip tip' as a gasket so I could hit it. A friend borrowed my rig and repeated the experiments with his Solo (and got the same results). You can position the bead in the center (like here) or against the wall. Or anywhere in between. Like with Ascent, air drawn in robs the heat from the center more (stopping production there first).
OF
Well-Known Member
I performed a similar experiment and found that the temperature of the load actually increases by about 40°C during a draw. So the incoming air is adding heat energy and not robbing the heat in the chamber like in the Ascent's design.
Very interesting. Where and how did you measure it? I can see the center of a domed screen doing this, perhaps? What was the idle temperature?
I sure don't think the cup is at 240C (200+40), that would raise hob between hits you'd think.
I wonder where I put the T/C rig......
TIA
Sorry, Bud, while I think you'd be an ideal Beta Tester I don't think this is going to fix the whole problem. Stronger yes, but I think still brittle? Glass is still a liquid in a way which means you can make it stronger by alloying stuff in. But it's also brittle, if the stresses show up to fast and local it reverts to behaving like a solid in places and cracks happen. I bet you could still shatter it with one of your famous deck drops?
Metal is an obvious choice, but heat conduction is an issue I think. Like with Ed's stems, only more so. Plastic is out for traditional reasons, if not completely practical ones. I'm leaning to some sort of enameled SS I think. Maybe even a composite? That is an enameled SS tube with an insulating jacket of some sort. The tube could be made thin that way and still provided strength where needed but could have say a Teflon or Delrin 'jacket' over the exposed parts?
But I think you should volunteer your services on behalf of us all. Anyone speak Japanese?
OF