Discontinued Zion vaporizer

What adhesive is used in the zion, and where is it used? Not sure I ever knew of any.

The high temperature 2 part epoxy holds the glass in the wood body. I will add more detail in our FAQ.

@RastaBuddhaTao FAQ/contact page (at least on iPad) looks pretty blank.. Or isn't it live yet?

Looks good on iPhone

A little confusing... Try the drop down menu under the FAQ - Contact tab

In order for all cult members to feel part of the family we will be extending the lifetime warranty to all Zion's sold to date so we better get it right

A close read of the FAQs will show that we are giving away a free stealth mouthpiece and screen pack as thanks for your patience during this short delay.

Speed bumps, man. Speed bumps. But which is better -- to slow down and manage the bumps or to speed up and risk tearing apart the undercarriage? All of us waiting at the finish line are anxious to see the checkered flag, but what we are really waiting for is the front-runner, the winner, and that means managing the speed bumps and finishing strong rather than tearing through those bumps to a thrilling but ultimately damaging crash and burn. That's part of the problem with the full-disclosure release method: All those speed bumps are front and center.

I have been in this from the beginning, and I can say with full confidence that @RastaBuddhaTao will manage these bumps to finish strong with a fully-intact undercarriage. lol

Try to stay patient everyone. The Zion will round that corner in all its glory in due time. And it is really going to tie the room together.

Noticed in the Design FAQ that existing lifetime customers will now be getting all 3 stems - long, medium & shortplus extra screens. Thank you RBT!

EDIT: oops, i see you just posted this info..

RastaBuddhaTao said:

A little confusing... Try the drop down menu under the FAQ - Contact tab

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Works nice on the Computer and iPhone. Its only on the iPad - you can't choose from a sub-menu- there's only the 5 main categories in the navigation bar. Just for feedback.

I would like to know how this update affects @pakalolo as far as his production unit. I know this is not the shipping thread so I'm walking on egg shells here, but I thought his was already shipped so I'm hoping this update won't affect this and that we still can look forward to hearing about his new production unit.

Either way I'm glad we know what is going on at the very least with our Zion and although I do not like waiting longer, I am happy to know that quality control is so high which is what we all were told we could expect from RBT. Knowing that he is an engineer, I anticipated that RBT would be more concerned with the product then the schedule which is a big reason I think we all chose the Zion.

As has been said by others this and the other RBT threads are a real pleasure to be part of.
I can imagine the current heater issues have been a PITA to sort out and will have caused RBT a lot of sleepless nights.
I can't thank @RastaBuddhaTao enough for his update on the situation. It won't have been easy to come here and eat humble pie.
This and the other RBT threads have been open and honest and now he has explained to us all his predicament. I for one have total confidence in the mans ability to find the solution and deliver the goods.
RBT did not have to tell anyone here about the heater issue but he has chosen to and my respect for the man has gone up ten fold.
I am not a Lifetime Cult Member but I can honestly say I wish I had jumped on board.
If I can be of any help the offer is there.
Zion is so tantalizingly close we can almost taste that instant convection flavor.
All the best RBT and in the spirit of things
Come on RastaBuddhaTao

Shit happens. If everything always went swimmingly anyone could do it. I am quite confident that RBT will solve this riddle in due time and get to delivering Zions, but he needs a little room to get that done. Lets give it to him. It's always great to get what we want right now, but I would certainly rather wait a bit to get a better product. I think you would too. And with a lifetime warranty the design and implementation needs to be as good as it can be. And that is the target.
I can tell you that the beta units that don't even have these improvements are outstanding vapes. I can only imagine what is coming. But if it is indeed better than what we have, we are all in for some incredible devices that will likely shelve everything else...

So, take whatever time you need to get it right, RBT. We will be here drooling in anticipation...

cybrguy said:

Shit happens. If everything always went swimmingly anyone could do it. I am quite confident that RBT will solve this riddle in due time and get to delivering Zions, but he needs a little room to get that done. Lets give it to him. It's always great to get what we want right now, but I would certainly rather wait a bit to get a better product. I think you would too. And with a lifetime warranty the design and implementation needs to be as good as it can be. And that is the target.
I can tell you that the beta units that don't even have these improvements are outstanding vapes. I can only imagine what is coming. But if it is indeed better than what we have, we are all in for some incredible devices that will likely shelve everything else...

So, take whatever time you need to get it right, RBT. We will be here drooling in anticipation...

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It sounds to me like he is having trouble getting the production units to perform the same as the beta units, not that the units are being improved.

The manufacturing process has changed greatly which means the production units are manufactured completely different than the beta units. Keep in mind the beta units were all made by hand. The production units are made by machine and assembled by hand. With these changes in the manufacturing process, RBT apparently found that the tolerances provided by the new manufacturing process were not inline with the quality expected and therefore he must improve the manufacturing process.

Likes2vape said:

It sounds to me like he is having trouble getting the production units to perform the same as the beta units, not that the units are being improved.

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This is simply not the case, it is all pure enhancement. I'll let RBT explain himself

Shit Snacks said:

This is simply not the case, it is all pure enhancement. I'll let RBT explain himself

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RastaBuddhaTao said:

The major issue is that we have found that the variations in the manufacturing process variation causes reduction in vapor quality.

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Likes2vape said:

It sounds to me like ...

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I'm sorry, I can't help you with how it sounds to you. I can only help you with how it sounds to me.

Shit Snacks said:

This is simply not the case, it is all pure enhancement. I'll let RBT explain himself

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Sounds like it is to me?

From the rbt faq:

"The main reason for the delay is due to the inability to control manufacturing variation in the heater that is leading to reduction in the quality of the vapor."

So the parts aren't showing up the same? Well it is too bad the most custom and important part of the vape has a kink. I have to imagine there is gonna be some lag between making a fix and having a new batch of heaters made. GH ran into heater issues from their manufacturer early on so the zion is in good company.

Fission said:

I know at least one company that would never be that forthcoming haha.

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They posted every two weeks, answered emails, and never needed to "go dark"?

Joel W. said:

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jojo monkey said:

Sounds like it is to me?

From the rbt faq:

"The main reason for the delay is due to the inability to control manufacturing variation in the heater that is leading to reduction in the quality of the vapor."

So the parts aren't showing up the same? Well it is too bad the most custom and important part of the vape has a kink. I have to imagine there is gonna be some lag between making a fix and having a new batch of heaters made. GH ran into heater issues from their manufacturer early on so the zion is in good company.



They posted every two weeks, answered emails, and never needed to "go dark"?

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As cybr says, I can't help what it sounds like to you. Your peragotive not to trust me. The way this is designed and constructed is nothing like the Hopper, so its a pointless comparison imo.

We know more about the actual design and process and are not at liberty to share due to non-disclosure agreements to protect the patented technology in development.

Just my take, again I believe RBT will share more when he is able, speculate all you want I just think it's not helpful for anyone personally

I don't find anything vague about RBT's quote? I find it refreshingly honest and very truthful to be so open with us. No worries here.

Edit, I need to remember to use quotes...

@jojo monkey if you have a look at RBT's posts you will see he did better than once a fortnight. Above all else he has now openly admitted to there being something he is not happy with and this will cause a delay. As @Shit Snacks very nicely puts it there is no comparison. I do agree that an earlier disclosure and better communications would have helped all the people who put their hands in their pockets.Which RBT has apologised for. I know this doesn't help much but at least we haven't been fed any Hopper Shit.

phattpiggie said:

@jojo monkey if you have a look at RBT's posts you will see he did better than once a fortnight. Above all else he has now openly admitted to there being something he is not happy with and this will cause a delay. As @Shit Snacks very nicely puts it there is no comparrison. I do agree that an earlier disclosure and better communications would have helped all the people who put their hands in their pockets.Which RBT has apologised for. I know this doesn't help much but at least we haven't been fed any Hopper Shit.

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Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking. Clearly RBT's hope was that he would have been able to jump over this hurdle quickly, and it wouldn't have been necessary to publicize any issues and cause unnecessary panic, but now that it's clear the problem is going to take a bit of legwork to solve, he was willing to tell everyone straight up what the deal is, and not throw out random estimates with no logical basis.

I think some skepticism is fair. All of the beta units never met the vapor quality of the early 2x4s. Mr.P and my other 2x4 owners always claimed that the Beta units worked well but didn't have the classic Zion quality vapor.

On Sunday night I had my unit P1 and Pak's unit P2 all together and both working well. I held off shipping it as Mr.P was stopping over to have me look at his unit. After replacing his heater the vapor quality in his unit was superior to mine and slightly better than Pak's. It's just cooler, and thicker and more effecient. So we disassembled my unit and started working on improving the vapor quality. After limited success we disassembled MrPs unit and then where unable to get it back to Zion quality vapor.

In building the beta units I was able to tweak them into perfection. Now that production build processes are being used they need to always work as assembled and therefor we have some work to do to improve consistency and quality.

I am headed to review 2x4 unit number two and do some side by side comparisons with Pak's Zion and the 2x4 and will try to make some videos.

So the short of it is up until a few days ago we encountered some problems that took some midnight oil but were surmountable. It was the variation in vapor quality that really forced the slowdown.

Some companies would just not tell there customers and sell them an inferior product just to pocket the revinue early "ah, they will never know". RBT is not driven by money but rather the opportunity to work with a great bunch people synergistically as a team to reach design entitlement in an organic way and as we all know you can't control Mother Nature as she works at her own pace.

I apologize if anyone feels mislead in anyway as it was not my intention. If what you really need is a vaporizer ASAP I have a refund form on our www and will refund you promptly.

For everyone else that is a dedicated cult member let's get back to having fun

RastaBuddhaTao said:

Mr.P and my other 2x4 owners always claimed that the Beta units worked well but didn't have the classic Zion quality vapor.

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Wait... what?!



...you mean it's gonna be better than what we got?!



Is that even possible?!

@RastaBuddhaTao I am exited to hear that it may be even better that what I have gotten used to with Loki. And on that note, if it will help in any way to have Loki over for a visit, please let me know, and I will make it happen.

Not me, Man. Cold dead hands an all that...

Naaa, if you (RBT) need Venus you can have her for a while. But I wouldn't make that offer to anyone else...