Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud EVO

Pyr0 said:

It's bad because it's not fully extracting the load all at once and evenly
...
I do If I want complete extraction

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I am getting complete extraction and uniform ABV without any stirring, even if I try to stir at the end, it doesn't do anything extra.

Pyr0 said:

It's bad because it doesn't fall back down - without help.

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I don't see the herb being clumped at the top as a problem. AS I've said, if it falls down, it can only make some soot and smoke from particles falling through the mesh and the sel-stirring is imo useless here.

Pyr0 said:

It's bad because it's not at the bottom of the ELB any more where it's hotter.

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Temperature difference at the top and bottom of the ELB is neglible. I don't think there is any.
You only get that temperature gradient when you overpack the ELB as the herbs at the bottom soak in the heat and there is less of making it up to the top layers. If you have a small load that just goes up, the hot air doesn't cool down when it goes through that extra centimeter of air.

Pyr0 said:

It's bad because it's all clumped together and not allowing the air to flow freely through and around it

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And where would that air go if not through and around it? lol
You are still pulling the air through the load no matter where it is. That's why the EVO doesn't need stirring. All the air that goes through the EVO must make it through the herbs. Actually I think it makes more vapor when its clumped as more air actually has to move through the herbs and NOT around it doing nothing.

Seek said:

I am getting complete extraction and uniform ABV without any stirring, even if I try to stir at the end, it doesn't do anything extra.

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I'm really not being sarky when I say this, but I'm genuinely happy it works so well for you and others.

In my case, stirring definitely does do something extra as I get more vapour, an extra full hit.

Seek said:

I don't see the herb being clumped at the top as a problem. AS I've said, if it falls down, it can only make some soot and smoke from particles falling through the mesh and the sel-stirring is imo useless here.

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The vapour is reduced to nothing at the end of the first draw.. So if I don't stir the load I get a toasted flavour as the hot air re-cooks already baked herb.

Seek said:

Temperature difference at the top and bottom of the ELB is neglible. I don't think there is any.
You only get that temperature gradient when you overpack the ELB as the herbs at the bottom soak in the heat and there is less of making it up to the top layers. If you have a small load that just goes up, the hot air doesn't cool down when it goes through that extra centimeter of air.

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I'm not sure of the mechanics are behind it as I'm not an engineer in thermodynamics lol, but I do know that I'm not over packing the ELBs and I'm not getting full/even extraction without stirring.

Seek said:

And where would that air go if not through and around it? lol
You are still pulling the air through the load no matter where it is. That's why the EVO doesn't need stirring. All the air that goes through the EVO must make it through the herbs. Actually I think it makes more vapor when its clumped as more air actually has to move through the herbs and NOT around it doing nothing.

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Just because the air flows through the centre of the load doesn't mean that the sides/edges are heated efficiently.

Pyr0 said:

I put a small amount in the bottom (1/4 full maybe) but as soon as I start to draw, the flower is just pulled up in the ELB, makes contact with the lid and just sits there, clumped together.

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This sounds like bud that needs more drying out, to me.

New_buddy said:

I usually finish my session at 3:00, and I can see some spots of brighter AVB, but if I stir and take another hit then that hit will be small, taste burnt, and won't make any noticeable difference to the high.

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When I finish an elb on 3 or higher the entire load is dark coffee brown. But I'm talking about finished, as in no more visible vapor.

New_buddy said:

Maybe im just using low quality herb (non-legal state)

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This is a common problem. And it limits the help we can be to each other on-line. even if it's not low quality (none of mine ever is), there are differences in good quality herb. I've got four different premium strains to play with right now, and one of them produces much less vapor than the others, and one of them can go for days.

Pyr0 said:

I don't appear to be getting full, even extraction without having to tap/stir the load.

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Not having to tap or stir is not a feature of this unit. Sometimes I stir, sometimes I don't. There are very few vapes that claim you don't have to stir, and the Evo isn't one to make that claim. I will say that I rarely stir, and usually only when I have over packed. I usually do nothing, but sometimes I will shake the elb a little bit when I am taking it out between hits (for longer sessions).

I am stoked to see so many new users here! Remember that it takes time to get to know a vape and get your usage patterns optimal. The best thing you can do is throw out any expectations or preconceived notions about a product or its technology and just use it and figure out how it likes to be used. I have been a convection snob for a long time, and it hindered my ability to really enjoy conduction vapes. Once I stripped away my biases I have really enjoyed them.

Sometimes I take a load to full extraction. Sometimes I could probably get a few more wispy hits but don't bother. Sometimes I load full nuggets and hit it for a couple draws, dump it, crumble it and reload. Other times I leave the nugget in there until completely done (this takes a while!). Try all kinds of different stuff and have fun!

Keep trying, @Pyr0 . The results you're getting seem almost as good as what the rest of us are talking about. I feel like it would be figured out immediately if one or two of us were in the same place.

Some of your posts make me think you're only hitting it once before stirring (possibly because you're not increasing temp? if so then this could be a difference, no?). If you're not bumping up the temp then I strongly suggest trying it.

I also don't think airflow should be an issue. It seems like there is good airflow through the sides of the ELB (this is where they tend to get dirtiest, in fact, and the inside of the male glass joint gathers vapor residue) as well as through the center from bottom to top.

Everyone has different routines and methods and some vapes perform better quicker for some people. I think you'll get what you're looking for out of the EVO (what's with that weird flashing green light that you have to turn it off for, though?).

KimDracula said:

Keep trying, @Pyr0 .
I also don't think airflow should be an issue. It seems like there is good airflow through the sides of the ELB (this is where they tend to get dirtiest, in fact, and the inside of the male glass joint gathers vapor residue) as well as through the center from bottom to top.

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That's a good point, are your ELB's clean? This could definitely be playing a factor.

KimDracula said:

Keep trying, @Pyr0 . The results you're getting seem almost as good as what the rest of us are talking about. I feel like it would be figured out immediately if one or two of us were in the same place.

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Thanks for the encouragement @KimDracula
Ha, yeah, being able to get together for "experimentation" would be great
I wish friends in the UK were into vaping more..

KimDracula said:

Some of your posts make me think you're only hitting it once before stirring (possibly because you're not increasing temp? if so then this could be a difference, no?). If you're not bumping up the temp then I strongly suggest trying it.

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That's exactly correct, I've just been setting the dial around 1.
I didn't have time to play or vape anything last night, but hopefully this evening, i'll try some of the suggestions made

KimDracula said:

I also don't think airflow should be an issue. It seems like there is good airflow through the sides of the ELB (this is where they tend to get dirtiest, in fact, and the inside of the male glass joint gathers vapor residue) as well as through the center from bottom to top.

Everyone has different routines and methods and some vapes perform better quicker for some people. I think you'll get what you're looking for out of the EVO (what's with that weird flashing green light that you have to turn it off for, though?).

Click to expand...

I really have no idea to be honest, but think it could be something to do with heat..
It happened again a couple days ago with the dial set around 2:30. It started flashing red/green so I flicked it off and on but it changed to just green flashes and had to be left off for 5 mins.

Roth said:

That's a good point, are your ELB's clean? This could definitely be playing a factor.

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I've definitely noticed the ELBs get dirty quickly around the top, but I have 6 of them and have been soaking them in ISO and a giving them a light brushing with a test tube brush.

stickstones said:

This sounds like bud that needs more drying out, to me.

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Honestly, the bud I was using was crispy.
Not powdered, but not chunky or sticky

stickstones said:

When I finish an elb on 3 or higher the entire load is dark coffee brown. But I'm talking about finished, as in no more visible vapor.

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I think I'll have to start experimenting using/trying the higher dial settings with the standard long ELB's.
I've only been using 2+ for the mini ELB so far
But running the EVO with the dial set above 2 often gives me the flashing green LED

stickstones said:

Not having to tap or stir is not a feature of this unit. Sometimes I stir, sometimes I don't. There are very few vapes that claim you don't have to stir, and the Evo isn't one to make that claim. I will say that I rarely stir, and usually only when I have over packed. I usually do nothing, but sometimes I will shake the elb a little bit when I am taking it out between hits (for longer sessions).

I am stoked to see so many new users here! Remember that it takes time to get to know a vape and get your usage patterns optimal. The best thing you can do is throw out any expectations or preconceived notions about a product or its technology and just use it and figure out how it likes to be used. I have been a convection snob for a long time, and it hindered my ability to really enjoy conduction vapes. Once I stripped away my biases I have really enjoyed them.

Sometimes I take a load to full extraction. Sometimes I could probably get a few more wispy hits but don't bother. Sometimes I load full nuggets and hit it for a couple draws, dump it, crumble it and reload. Other times I leave the nugget in there until completely done (this takes a while!). Try all kinds of different stuff and have fun!

Click to expand...

Thanks stickstones, you put it really well there.
I think that is my problem
I will persevere and keep testing.. in the name of science of course

jojo monkey said:

Even as a hybrid it is cooking herb with conduction.

It is not the same as pure convection.

You can't assume you consumed the vapor with any conduction. You are cooking things off when it warms up and between hits.

@HellsWindStaff see the vid.

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Totally agree and cool video, just meant that conduction could be could be contributing to the more uniform color in our Mighty's spent herb. My herb is pretty toasted in the EVO, coffee brown when I'm done, but like I've mentioned I'm doing it at a higher temp.

I also echo the guy above who said that he experiences better hits sometimes when its pretty packed...I've experienced the same. Not quite packing it as tight as my Herbalaire, but it is pretty clumped/packed when I pack up the ELBs...I just grab a big pinch and shove it in, and then take another big pinch and force that in too. Definitely some wiggle room but I'd say it's pretty compactly packed.

I'd also echo whoever said the sides of the ELB seem to get the dirtiest, I agree. I had to take a paper clip and scrape away at the sides of mine last night.

I've also been heat soaking at least 5-10 minutes prior to using. I bump it up to 3, and then grind my tree, get some coffee, pack the ELBs, vape some nic...I essentially get everything I would want out of the way while it's heating up, and then when I get back to it, it's nice and toasty.

Pyr0 said:

I've only been using 2+ for the mini ELB so far

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I'm not sure what a mini elb is, but something else I have been guilty of and see a lot of people here do is start modding a device before we have figured it out as intended. As someone who has gotten to know well over forty vapes, this is the biggest mistake I make. I rush to do it my way before I've figured out how to do it the vape's way. I wonder if the mini elb falls into this category...

I had JoJo Woodworks make some stuff.

A "coaster" that is concave, so I can easily place an ELB down & it won't roll away.


And an ELB holder with a concave tray for holding tools.



I posted a couple more related pics over in his thread.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/jojowoodworks-com-custom-wood-stands-trays-and-holders.19405/

Well, ladies and gents, my EVO arrived just a short while ago. I finally had the opportunity to load it up so I'm going to share some first impressions that I'm sure you're all already sick of hearing, LOL. Apologies if this is a little spaced out, because spoiler alert: this device fully lives up to its incredible hype.

My very first thought upon holding the EVO was "Wow, this thing is light." I already knew the EVO was supposed to be a low weight device but even so, I'd wager without the HT on top and the cord it weighs about as much as my Mighty. Certainly feels that way! But the EVO is clearly not cheaply made, and the quality of the glass and plastic used all appears top notch. The Turbine HydraTube appears to be made of thick glass and feels nice and solid when held in the hand.

I packed approximately .1g into the ELB, allowed the EVO to heat up as I completed some homework, and then hit that sucker at around 12 o'clock on the dial. Fantastic. I've had next to no experience working with glass but using the HT felt very intuitive to me. It took me no time at all to figure out a draw that felt comfortable to me (which can be tricky, I'm sort of a petite gal and I don't have a lot of lung capacity) and soon enough I was whitewalling the glass. Like, multiple times. Huge, beautiful hits. On so little material, having never once operated a bong before! Outstanding.

The vapor was cool, clean, and even more flavorful than previous hits with my Mighty. I remember exhaling huge plumes of vapor and being absolutely shocked that I had managed to breathe in so much without any coughing or uncomfortable throat dryness. I hit the ELB multiple times (I want to say 4-5?) and got a satisfying, tasty hit with each. The vapor production was definitely tapering off by the end, but I suspect if I cranked the EVO to 2 o'clock or something I could probably get a few extra clouds off that ELB.

A few stray observations/sort of cons: I definitely noticed a distinct smell of warm neoprene when the device was on and covered by its shield. Nothing terrible, just sort of mildly unpleasant. The action of clearing the HT by removing it feels a little awkward/strange to me and makes me a little anxious to use such a fragile device, but I suspect it's just because I have so little experience with glass. Hopefully I'll get better at handling it over time!

So far the high has been super pleasant . I'd say the effects are similar to doing an equivalent bowl in my Mighty, but slightly more clean and cerebral. Final thoughts? Love this thing! Gonna cherish it like the precious little baby it is. Unfortunately for you all I'm a bit of a rambly stoner, LOL! But super glad to be part of the EVO family, this thing is absolutely unreal.

stickstones said:

I'm not sure what a mini elb is, but something else I have been guilty of and see a lot of people here do is start modding a device before we have figured it out as intended. As someone who has gotten to know well over forty vapes, this is the biggest mistake I make. I rush to do it my way before I've figured out how to do it the vape's way. I wonder if the mini elb falls into this category...

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I'd spotted a post by Purpl3_Haz3 when reading through this thread:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vapexhale-cloud.5247/page-524#post-381157

I've been using it recently when vaping kief so the full size ELB's don't get so clogged.

Pyr0 said:

I'd spotted a post by Purpl3_Haz3 when reading through this thread:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vapexhale-cloud.5247/page-524#post-381157

I've been using it recently when vaping kief so the full size ELB's don't get so clogged.

Click to expand...

Interesting... I think I'll do this if/when I ever have an ELB fail, rather than just having an extra cap.

The smell of that neoprene put me off of that cover for a while but it does fade away, thankfully. I have finally come around to using it all the time.

Welp, new HydraTube came in the mail today. Haven't been home yet to give it a try, but they sent me a replacement cause the one I got didnt have enough clearance for the VapeXnails.

Then I saw someone post and say that there was one batch of long nails that it didn't work with, but that it shouldnt be an issue for all other nails.

I hope they included a differnet nail in my package. If I was just send a nail that was too long in the first place, then I'd like to keep my current HT as it has 12 arms vs. 8 in the tree perc, and I don't wanna hassle with making sure its squeaky clean before I mail it back.

We'll see.

I have a 10 arm Hydratree that is beautiful but too short for the new nails and I still had a ticket open so I asked about the new nails vs old nails and if this would change and was just told by VXL support earlier today that:

"As of today, we think that the new Quartz nails should work with the HydraTrees because it has less amount of glass between the top of the nail and the maria. So if you should need more nails in the future that work with the HydraTree, be sure to order the Quartz instead of the Borosilicate."
-Jeff

This statement may only apply to my Hydratree and I only asked him out of curiousity based on what I've read here. I opted not to trade my Hydratree out when I got that offer but my Hydratree's splashguard is even lower than others I've seen pictured. Not a big deal to me, but I can see where it would be for others. The Hydratrees were all made before Vapexnails even existed from what CS told me so they are lucky any of the nails work with the Hydratree.

For those curious, the clearance from the top of the joint in my Hydratree to the top of the splashguard is about 3/8". Much smaller than most. But that makes the air volume area below the perc smaller and more appealing looks wise.

Do vxnails work the same in the og clouds?

New_buddy said:

Welp, new HydraTube came in the mail today. Haven't been home yet to give it a try, but they sent me a replacement cause the one I got didnt have enough clearance for the VapeXnails.

Then I saw someone post and say that there was one batch of long nails that it didn't work with, but that it shouldnt be an issue for all other nails.

I hope they included a differnet nail in my package. If I was just send a nail that was too long in the first place, then I'd like to keep my current HT as it has 12 arms vs. 8 in the tree perc, and I don't wanna hassle with making sure its squeaky clean before I mail it back.

We'll see.

Click to expand...

Or, if you like them both... ask how much they would want for you to keep both and a pack of quartz.

I mentioned this before, but I was shipped the wrong HT. Several weeks of loving my Swagger Double later, I realized that I had actually ordered the Showercap (it was a tossup when ordering.) They made a mistake and offered to correct it no problem. I countered, and got a good deal on them just shipping me the Showercap, a hydrafoot & a pack of ELB's.

Great customer service to back an excellent product.

Managed to find time to relax this evening and have a few bowls

I set the dial @ 2 (instead of between 12-1) and left it for half an hour or more before I used it with a brand new, fresh from the bag ELB, which I loaded with approximately 0.100g of some freshly ground (upside down then right side up) Holy Grail.

Filling my lungs the first time, the EVO produced a large amount of nice tasty vapour which started slowly, then quickly milked the glass before trailing off as I lifted to clear.
Without stirring, removing or disturbing the ELB in any way I took a second hit. It was a much thinner mist with wisps that seemed to dance around the turbine toward the end, tasted slightly toasted but not too bad and made me cough once or twice.

I've lost count of how many bowls I've had.. the AVB isn't the only one toasted..
The AVB looks much darker than usual, more of it is browned and it seemed to be getting slightly darker with each bowl. There are still a couple of tiny specks of green in there, but it's negligible and I don't think I'll bother saving any of it for future use as most of it looks like freeze dried coffee.

This is the last ELB I emptied:


So I'll admit I was wrong
The higher heat setting seems to penetrate the load more.

I guess for me and the way I prefer to vape (and being a previous bong user), my issue was just temperature.

I'm not really sure what was stopping me from using higher dial settings previously with the full size ELBs, possibly a combination of the green flashing acting as some sort of unknown warning and maybe thinking of the chart I saw on Vapefiend or worrying about possible pyrolysis

Just noticed on the above chart, mine doesn't turn up to 6 lol

Thank you to everyone for all of your helpful suggestions and for putting up with my moaning.
I think 2 is my new setting.
I wish they had put indents or even just marks on it

[edit]
The green flashing just happened again
Turned it off for about 30 seconds and it turned on again, the LED lit red for a couple of seconds before switching straight to green.

Glad you're getting more success.

One thing to keep in mind is that color of the AVB isn't everything. I've notices some strains get darker using the same technique. And different vapes can leave the AVB different colors even if it's fully extracted in both units.

I don't like that chart of temps at all, to be honest. Glad you're experimenting and seeing what works best for you.

grokit said:

Do vxnails work the same in the og clouds?

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No, they don't work in the og clouds. The bamboo of the old units had a restriction point higher up than the Evo. So the nail won't fit it there.

I was a bit surprised to see people using such high temps for herbs. I just leave it dead on 12 with regular ELB and from experimenting feel anything after 12 adds nothing but extra vapour with an increasingly unpleasant taste.

I realise ABV colour isn't exact but at 12 it is way darker than an extremeQ at 200c. I am actually thinking of reducing the temperature a bit after some more testing, I just wish it had a digi readout to help reduce potential harm of inhaling things like benzene.

I tried using some light to medium cooked ABV to gauge the effects at each level (so it was very dry), it actually ignited at 1:30-2:00. This really shocked me and put me off using this range.

Previously when I mentioned efficiency of the EVO being less than I had hoped I was actually comparing it to smoking. I found the extremeQ to be the least efficient of all. I can't help thinking it would still have more of an effect smoked and this confuses me after reading multiple posts here stating vaporising made it last longer. Any ideas? I have tried doing a heatup first and not packing it full, whilst this helps I still do not see it as more efficient than smoking.

Having said that this is the only thing I have tried that made me stop smoking for good, I am very much looking forward to a digi and portable version and I have yet to hook it up with water tools.

Does anyone have experience extracting the remains from ABV with alcohol? if so is there any drinkable spirits I can use in the UK? I do not want to use ISO...

Finally looking for some water tools - I do not have a HT, saw someone using a Mobius Matrix which looked promising. Anyone recommend this or something better that ships to UK?

Thanks

If you're not going to go above noon and are, in fact, thinking about going lower, you will not come close to extracting everything you can out of your bud. It's just not possible. I have found the taste quite appealing up to 1:30 and then pretty neutral at 2:00. At 3:00 the vapor doesn't taste good, imo. If you add more diffusion with something like the Matrix perhaps you will enjoy the higher temps more.

It does seem odd, however, that you are able to combust at that setting on the dial. Except for Seek, pretty much no one seems to be able to get that done with the EVO at all.

Budley Moore said:

I was a bit surprised to see people using such high temps for herbs. I just leave it dead on 12 with regular ELB and from experimenting feel anything after 12 adds nothing but extra vapour with an increasingly unpleasant taste.

I realise ABV colour isn't exact but at 12 it is way darker than an extremeQ at 200c. I am actually thinking of reducing the temperature a bit after some more testing, I just wish it had a digi readout to help reduce potential harm of inhaling things like benzene.

I tried using some light to medium cooked ABV to gauge the effects at each level (so it was very dry), it actually ignited at 1:30-2:00. This really shocked me and put me off using this range.

Previously when I mentioned efficiency of the EVO being less than I had hoped I was actually comparing it to smoking. I found the extremeQ to be the least efficient of all. I can't help thinking it would still have more of an effect smoked and this confuses me after reading multiple posts here stating vaporising made it last longer. Any ideas? I have tried doing a heatup first and not packing it full, whilst this helps I still do not see it as more efficient than smoking.

Having said that this is the only thing I have tried that made me stop smoking for good, I am very much looking forward to a digi and portable version and I have yet to hook it up with water tools.

Does anyone have experience extracting the remains from ABV with alcohol? if so is there any drinkable spirits I can use in the UK? I do not want to use ISO...

Finally looking for some water tools - I do not have a HT, saw someone using a Mobius Matrix which looked promising. Anyone recommend this or something better that ships to UK?

Thanks

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I completely agree with you.
Knob at noon all the time.
I prefer extracting everything with a few pulls and zero stress for the Evo's green and red lights

You cannot extract everything in the flower at such a low temperature.

KimDracula said:

You cannot extract everything in the flower at such a low temperature.

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I explain:
I prefer extracting everything I can without getting a burnt flavor.
If I set it hotter I get an unpleasant flavour at the end of the session.
I don't like to prolong the session starting from lower temp on regular sessions (or worse ending at hotter temps). A longer session only irritates my throat as a result, other than getting popcorn flavor (or worse, burnt flavor) considerably earlier during the session.
This is me after a couple of weeks owning the Evo, no intention to change anyone's mind. Regardless, at my stage, I can see plenty reasons not to play too much with the knob.