The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)
- Thread starter Hippie Dickie
- Start date
i don't process the ABV -- just trash it. and i haven't gotten hold of enough hash to really say anything definitive -- again, not available around here.
biojuggernaut
Snob
When we will be able to put our names on the list. You mentioned earlier that you are only making a 100 of them?
Perhaps sooner than i was thinking it would be ... i've just made (today) an executive decision to abandon the idea of a battery box and go back to putting a Deans plug on each cell ... i got to thinking about what would happen if somebody put one of the cells in backwards - it wouldn't be pretty and it would cause a lot of warranty claims. Plus this removes the need for a second smaller box to hold a cell while charging. i will test a new cell encapsulation idea this week after i get some parts.
i am planning to make 1000 units -- with the right equipment (about $5000 total) i should be able to make 10 per day. i just learned about SMT laser cut templates that will make stuffing and soldering the pcb a snap -- one less task to outsource.
biojuggernaut
Snob
Hippie Dickie said:
Sorry, my thc brain messes up sometimes. I too think a plug would make it a great desktop unit. Good luck Hippie.
charliedontsurf
Medical
It's awesome to see this vape nearing production. I know this has been discussed before Hippie Dicke, and that you've turned it down as not being the focus of your vape, but I think a simple glass on glass connection sold with your vape would make it immediately far more attractive to many, many of the vaporists on this forum and off it, and would be of minimal cost to you. I think you'd find your list of 1000 lucky people filling up far more quickly with a Gong connection than with not, and that a second production run would be more lucrative and immediate. Just thinking.
For instance, I think alot of Solos were sold overnight when a member posted a video of him almost whitewalling a nice glass piece with it. I know it was a huge push for me towards blowing 230 bucks. A similar video would do the same for your system, while offering no delicious flaking ceramic like the Solo has.
Is there no way you can physically modify the exterior of the battery so it can only be inserted one way? Just something you slip over it even, so the back end wouldn't be able to fit.
For instance, I think alot of Solos were sold overnight when a member posted a video of him almost whitewalling a nice glass piece with it. I know it was a huge push for me towards blowing 230 bucks. A similar video would do the same for your system, while offering no delicious flaking ceramic like the Solo has.
Is there no way you can physically modify the exterior of the battery so it can only be inserted one way? Just something you slip over it even, so the back end wouldn't be able to fit.
The Bud Toaster is designed for my interests, and i have no interest in using a glass bong with my vape. i'm sure people with those proclivities will have no problem adapting something to work with their glass pieces -- exercise left to the reader, eh?
Besides, it appears the Cloud does that really well -- although i don't know why they can't slap a thermometer ($3.50USD) on the Cloud body -- i will never again have a vape that doesn't have a temperature readout.
The market segment i have identified would also have no interest, or would have a hard time, dealing with glass+water to get medicated -- think Medicare and baby boomers (60+). The scenario i have developed makes it quick and easy to get medicated.
And i wonder about cleaning those intricate glass pieces -- seems like a hassle to me, and probably to other boomers. You wouldn't believe how incredibly easy it is to keep the Bud Toaster glassware sparkly clean with just a wipe of a paper towel. And, no metal screen, so no piece to soak or replace.
i gave this some passing thought, and i may return to this idea, but the battery box is turning into its own major design effort -- i've already tried six different prototype boxes and i am no where close to having something that is satisfactory to me.
These batteries are extremely dangerous if mishandled -- i can't assume my customers will be as anal retentive as i am and will always do it the Dickie way. (gf is the perfect test case).
Another option is to have a battery pack -- i tried this in the very beginning of using these batteries and that requires a balancing cable to properly charge the pair -- and almost immediately this little wire broke off and the pack was rendered unusable -- yes, this could easily be repaired, but it identified another point of failure to be eliminated.
i rely that my Bud Toaster will always work when i want to medicate -- i want that for my customers, too.
FungusAmungus1012
Member
Hey HD, me again.
I don't know if you considered this before or not, but this is the first thing that came to my mind when I thought of how that battery holder of yours could latch on to the Bud Toaster.
The plug on the bottom might not fit due to other components being in the way but maybe you can have it on the side or something.
I don't know if you considered this before or not, but this is the first thing that came to my mind when I thought of how that battery holder of yours could latch on to the Bud Toaster.
The plug on the bottom might not fit due to other components being in the way but maybe you can have it on the side or something.
thank-you for the suggestion. i have tried to work through all the different physical arrangements, but it still gets down to being too heavy to hold comfortably. i'm resigned to needing to use a cable while i wait for lighter (and smaller) batteries with more advanced chemistry.
But, depending on how the heat shrink tube encapsulation of the cells goes, attaching the batteries directly to the cube may be possible yet. At least as an option.
But, depending on how the heat shrink tube encapsulation of the cells goes, attaching the batteries directly to the cube may be possible yet. At least as an option.
Ennui Cookout
Well-Known Member
Hippie, I'd be totally fine with wearing a battery pack like a walkman with a cable running up to the cube. But I'm also totally a weirdo who'd walk around the house like that.
Seriously though, your vape design looks stunning and I rather agree with what you mentioned about desiring a vape that is straightforward, easy cleanup and portable. I've been using a WISPR lately and while the taste is atrocious, it's seriously compelling on how otherwise easy it is to wander around the house with and medicate without needing a pocket full of batteries. I'd be more than happy to pre-order now if the list was open.
Seriously though, your vape design looks stunning and I rather agree with what you mentioned about desiring a vape that is straightforward, easy cleanup and portable. I've been using a WISPR lately and while the taste is atrocious, it's seriously compelling on how otherwise easy it is to wander around the house with and medicate without needing a pocket full of batteries. I'd be more than happy to pre-order now if the list was open.
Beezleb
Well-Known Member
I saw something recently on better much more improved battery breakthrough was made. Who knows when that translates to something we can use but hey, I dont get much to add to your thread hehe. I will see if I can find the article I read if interested. It might give you an idea on some of whats around the corner in battery posiblities.
@Ennui - i appreciate your interest, but it will be a while before there is a signup list ... miles to go ... field tests first ... and i have to see if my latest battery ideas will work out and be manufacturable. and i'm hoping the heat shrink tubing will be an acceptable solution -- look okay and be secure and safe.
And the BT is really not a portable vape in that way ... it is really a "take it from here to there", so you can easily use it in different settings, but walking around -- i don't think that would be enjoyable. But, take it out on the deck for an evening session or a sunrise session? or bring it to bed? -- yeah, that is very enjoyable.
@Beezleb - i'm always interested in tracking the latest battery technology. The next iteration of the BT could be awesome.
And the BT is really not a portable vape in that way ... it is really a "take it from here to there", so you can easily use it in different settings, but walking around -- i don't think that would be enjoyable. But, take it out on the deck for an evening session or a sunrise session? or bring it to bed? -- yeah, that is very enjoyable.
@Beezleb - i'm always interested in tracking the latest battery technology. The next iteration of the BT could be awesome.
New month, new ideas ...
well, i have just been beside myself in stewing through the battery configuration.
The primary consideration for me is safety. So the battery must be safe to handle, safe to use, safe to recharge, and reliable. i've been playing with the high current demands of this vaporizer (and predecessors) for 10 years and reliability is a major concern.
So, here is the design that will absolutely work reliably for years, and satisfies all the safety requirements. The downside is ... not too elegant looking, so maybe stuff the cells into a leather pouch of some kind.
Anyway, here is a doable (buildable) design configuration. Each cell will have a Deans female pigtail soldered to the two tabs on the cell:
Then, a plastic cap is shoved over each end (simulated by the blue Dip-It coating).
Then the Deans plug is bent so the plug is even with the end of the cell, and held in place by heat-shrink tubing -- the tubing for the commercial product will be colored instead of clear (i used clear for this test so i could see what the effects would be inside):
The Deans pigtails use 12ga ultra wire, and deliver all the current these cells are capable of delivering.
So here are the two cells of a pack:
And, next to the 2" cube for size comparison:
Functional, perhaps, but ugly. Yuck!
Then, on Friday, i had an inspiration that eliminates the need for the Deans plug, yet satisfies all the requirements for safety and reliability, and will look so sweet. i think i've finally put this baby to bed.
...to be continued...
well, i have just been beside myself in stewing through the battery configuration.
The primary consideration for me is safety. So the battery must be safe to handle, safe to use, safe to recharge, and reliable. i've been playing with the high current demands of this vaporizer (and predecessors) for 10 years and reliability is a major concern.
So, here is the design that will absolutely work reliably for years, and satisfies all the safety requirements. The downside is ... not too elegant looking, so maybe stuff the cells into a leather pouch of some kind.
Anyway, here is a doable (buildable) design configuration. Each cell will have a Deans female pigtail soldered to the two tabs on the cell:
Then, a plastic cap is shoved over each end (simulated by the blue Dip-It coating).
Then the Deans plug is bent so the plug is even with the end of the cell, and held in place by heat-shrink tubing -- the tubing for the commercial product will be colored instead of clear (i used clear for this test so i could see what the effects would be inside):
The Deans pigtails use 12ga ultra wire, and deliver all the current these cells are capable of delivering.
So here are the two cells of a pack:
And, next to the 2" cube for size comparison:
Functional, perhaps, but ugly. Yuck!
Then, on Friday, i had an inspiration that eliminates the need for the Deans plug, yet satisfies all the requirements for safety and reliability, and will look so sweet. i think i've finally put this baby to bed.
...to be continued...
biojuggernaut
Snob
I'm sure I can buy something off of ed to put those batteries in 
On my real note though hippie it looks great. I am interested to see what you are going to do with the plugs on the battery.
On my real note though hippie it looks great. I am interested to see what you are going to do with the plugs on the battery.
notmyrealUSERname
Notmy Well-Known Member
i am not sure if this has been asked and answered yet in this thread so instead of searching... 
what is the avg bowl load size in grams? in other words how much stuff do you put in your vial to be toasted per session? how many tubes to get where you want to be? what is the avg number of tubes for your beta testers?
thanks.
what is the avg bowl load size in grams? in other words how much stuff do you put in your vial to be toasted per session? how many tubes to get where you want to be? what is the avg number of tubes for your beta testers?
thanks.
Physically, the borosilicate glass bud vial is 12mm (1/2") outside diameter by 1 3/8" long. It is specified as 1/2 dram, which is 0.8859 g -- however, i only fill it 1/3 full, and never pack it down -- the herb should be dropped in so it doesn't rise up more than 3/4" from the bottom of the vial since that's the extent of the heater coil and i think the radiant heat through the two glass walls is critical to the functioning of the vape. So i'm guessing about 0.3g to 0.35g. If i put in more than that it takes longer than 7 minutes (12 hits) to exhaust all the trichomes (i'm a busy, busy guy, eh?).
To control tolerance build up, i only do one vial at a time. That's enough. Only one beta tester currently -- the same.
i don't have a fractional gram scale.
To control tolerance build up, i only do one vial at a time. That's enough. Only one beta tester currently -- the same.
i don't have a fractional gram scale.
The (re)Turning Point ... !
i really think i have this battery packaging problem figured out. And it's back to the "battery sled" idea after all.
Because of the massive current capability of the selected batteries -- A123Systems 26650 power cell -- there are three factors that are upper-most important to me -- the cells delivered with the Bud Toaster must be: safe, reliable, and stylish.
So i have finally stumbled onto a design that not only meets these three criteria, but is also manufacturable (by me):
This is a single power cell, with plastic end caps and heat shrink tubing to hold the caps in place, and a wire form that creates a polarized orientation so it will be impossible to plug in the batteries incorrectly.
Here's the (+) positive end - the 1/4" access hole is 1/4" off center:
Here's the (-) negative end - the 1/4" access hole is 1/8" off center:
So i know i've got safe covered. i still have to build the sled and setup the end-contacts, and do tests for reliability, but i'm feeling pretty confident any issues that arise can be worked out.
Here is the cell next to the cube for relative size:
Stylish? in the eye of the beholder, for sure. At least it looks sleek, eh? -- much better than trying to affix a Deans connector directly to the cell.
i really think i have this battery packaging problem figured out. And it's back to the "battery sled" idea after all.
Because of the massive current capability of the selected batteries -- A123Systems 26650 power cell -- there are three factors that are upper-most important to me -- the cells delivered with the Bud Toaster must be: safe, reliable, and stylish.
So i have finally stumbled onto a design that not only meets these three criteria, but is also manufacturable (by me):
This is a single power cell, with plastic end caps and heat shrink tubing to hold the caps in place, and a wire form that creates a polarized orientation so it will be impossible to plug in the batteries incorrectly.
Here's the (+) positive end - the 1/4" access hole is 1/4" off center:
Here's the (-) negative end - the 1/4" access hole is 1/8" off center:
So i know i've got safe covered. i still have to build the sled and setup the end-contacts, and do tests for reliability, but i'm feeling pretty confident any issues that arise can be worked out.
Here is the cell next to the cube for relative size:
Stylish? in the eye of the beholder, for sure. At least it looks sleek, eh? -- much better than trying to affix a Deans connector directly to the cell.
VWFringe
Naruto Fan
'you're a better man than i'
EDIT: that off-setting of the holes should handle putting them in wrong, and it is a pretty and simply put together package (the wire bracket doesn't conduct, it's just for positioning, right?) - and on a baser level, I like the red and black
Have you thought about adding some kind of polarity protection circuit, or even selling a charger as the battery holder (wire in a Deans)?
~ supplying you with rediculous ideas from the peanut gallery since 2010
EDIT: that off-setting of the holes should handle putting them in wrong, and it is a pretty and simply put together package (the wire bracket doesn't conduct, it's just for positioning, right?) - and on a baser level, I like the red and black
Have you thought about adding some kind of polarity protection circuit, or even selling a charger as the battery holder (wire in a Deans)?
~ supplying you with rediculous ideas from the peanut gallery since 2010
i think this physical polarization will be sufficient, but if not i'll probably have to add such a circuit. Usually the battery protection circuits are current limiters.
i found one charger that has a 26650 holder, but the charge current rate is too puny.
many thanks for offering your thoughts. i appreciate your interest.
i found one charger that has a 26650 holder, but the charge current rate is too puny.
many thanks for offering your thoughts. i appreciate your interest.
LooneyTune
Well-Known Member
Hi! newbie here, but I tell you what, I went through all previous posts and enjoyed this creative process! It also inspired me to start tinkering with it
however I have some very basic (stupid) questions
-how come the vapor that you inhale is not hot, since the air stream at some point gets 210 degrees C? If I understand correctly, its heat is absorbed by the substance so the air-vapor that passes is not hot anymore (?)
-also, this vaporizer design is convection based, but that implies that the vial which comes in contact with the substance never approaches near 210oC, since in that case the heating mechanism would be conduction, right?
Hippie Dickie, maybe I missed those points, besides I'm a noob with vaporisers, but would you care to elaborate on these points?
I have some other questions as well, but I'd like to figure out the basics first. If you think I'm going off topic, I could pm you instead
thanks!
however I have some very basic (stupid) questions
-how come the vapor that you inhale is not hot, since the air stream at some point gets 210 degrees C? If I understand correctly, its heat is absorbed by the substance so the air-vapor that passes is not hot anymore (?)
-also, this vaporizer design is convection based, but that implies that the vial which comes in contact with the substance never approaches near 210oC, since in that case the heating mechanism would be conduction, right?
Hippie Dickie, maybe I missed those points, besides I'm a noob with vaporisers, but would you care to elaborate on these points?
I have some other questions as well, but I'd like to figure out the basics first. If you think I'm going off topic, I could pm you instead
thanks!
LooneyTune said:
Good questions!
(1) Usually i am running the heater at 195F these days (381F) ... so yes the vapor starts out hot, but is not excessively so when it comes out of the 4" tube -- and i think when it is inhaled into the 4" tube (on top of the vial) the expansion cools it dramatically. For example, the end of the inhale tube that touches the vial is hot to the touch (though doesn't burn), but 1" above the end is cool. Vapor will condense only in the first 1.5" of the 4" tube, so it's cooling fast.
(2) there is a 1.5 mm gap between the outside of the vial and the inside surface of the oven tube, so the vial has minimal contact, though there is some -- the bottom edge of the vial (flat bottom) definitely contacts the bottom of oven tube -- which is probably 40F cooler than the middle of the oven tube. The top edge of the vial will also touch the oven tube at one point -- but again, this end will be at least 40F cooler since it is exposed to the external air. And the temperature of the oven tube has a dramatic thermal profile along its length, since the oven tube is hottest at the center of the heater coil and cooler at the two ends of the coil.
That being said, the vial does get wicked hot. However, initially the herb has minimal contact with the side walls of the vial -- and the first three hits are the densest. After the first stir, the soon-to-be-ABV herb is making much better contact with the bottom and sides of the vial.
A longer, bigger tube (18mm x 6" long) delivers a cooler vapor -- but i still prefer the 12mm x 4" tube. An inline cooler might be desirable -- i haven't tried to use one yet.
@SF Giant - been there, done that and imho batteries are better than wall plug.
LooneyTune
Well-Known Member
Hippie Dickie, thank you very much for your very detailed reply!
the air path expansion and observing the condensation are key points which I didn't take into account
now all my questions are pretty much covered (and I hope they will be confirmed by my prototype lol)
btw I'd like to give a couple of links with useful resources, to help people that may be intimidated by the technical issues (they should be not)
transitor tutorial
same as above, about MOSFET switching
a good PID tutorial (the code itself is for Arduino though)
a quick PID tutorial for Matlab to play with the parameter values and understand their effect
(a free alternative to Matlab is Octave, and I'm pretty sure Matlab code can be ported very easily)
and a last thing, I'm curious about what you think of porcelain as material, could it be a substitute for borosilicate glass? I have the impression that it could withstand high temperatures and that it's rather inert (?) Borosilicate glass is the purest option, but I've seen several porcelain items that seem suitable to be used as an interface and I was wondering if that would be a viable option for people that have trouble working with glass (drilling)
the air path expansion and observing the condensation are key points which I didn't take into account
now all my questions are pretty much covered (and I hope they will be confirmed by my prototype lol)
btw I'd like to give a couple of links with useful resources, to help people that may be intimidated by the technical issues (they should be not)
transitor tutorial
same as above, about MOSFET switching
a good PID tutorial (the code itself is for Arduino though)
a quick PID tutorial for Matlab to play with the parameter values and understand their effect
(a free alternative to Matlab is Octave, and I'm pretty sure Matlab code can be ported very easily)
and a last thing, I'm curious about what you think of porcelain as material, could it be a substitute for borosilicate glass? I have the impression that it could withstand high temperatures and that it's rather inert (?) Borosilicate glass is the purest option, but I've seen several porcelain items that seem suitable to be used as an interface and I was wondering if that would be a viable option for people that have trouble working with glass (drilling)
TooneyTune - thank-you for the links -- i took a quick look, but i need to spend much more time with the PID info -- i still have some unresolved questions.
re: porcelain -- i don't know anything about it (beyond what Wikipedia says). does it come as tubes? i have not had any problems drilling glass -- using dremel, diamond bits, and drilling under water.
re: porcelain -- i don't know anything about it (beyond what Wikipedia says). does it come as tubes? i have not had any problems drilling glass -- using dremel, diamond bits, and drilling under water.
vapormonkey
Well-Known Member
OK, I read the first 10 pages but I can't read the whole thread so if you would please help.
So this is still an idea and these are not made yet and not for sale, is this correct?
So this is still an idea and these are not made yet and not for sale, is this correct?