Cheap High Quality Bubbler

Yup I get ya Sticks.its already all been said before me.I watched the Torus,egg,pump,ion and numerous others have all been copied..I watched people fold and I would have too im sure.

I have respect for SM and the feelings of FC members close to him after watching the Evo get to where it is today.all born out of FC.I remember watching the VXC start up almost crash and funding running out before the good times.
how must the designers of all these US pieces feel.i personally don't own any counterfeit/clones

I feel that if steven doesn t make the circ..sooner than later someone will.They should do the honourable thing and contact VXL for sure and hammer something out.be aware that I am just passing on information from the seller who had already dimensions and designs on his desk.

Re the FC-MOD please post your thoughts on the design everyone .if not here then on the design thread.

i understand that the main can is too narrow and needs to be 1/3 taller.the current matrix perc sits so high in the piece and requires heaps of water There is also noo need imo to have a removeable perc in the ashcatcher.Concentrating on perc swap outs for the Main Can only seems the sensible way to go.

In summary :

Wider main can but by how much??

1/3 Taller Main can?

Fixed showerhead perc ashcatcher current sizing ok?

Options for perc changeout on the main 29mm joint.

Thoughts? Or the current design will become the reality.

u bwade wunner said:

Yup I get ya Sticks.its already all been said before me.I watched the Torus,egg,pump,ion and numerous others have all been copied..I watched people fold and I would have too im sure.

I have respect for SM and the feelings of FC members close to him after watching the Evo get to where it is today.all born out of FC.I remember watching the VXC start up almost crash and funding running out before the good times.
how must the designers of all these US pieces feel.i personally don't own any counterfeit/clones

I feel that if steven doesn t make the circ..sooner than later someone will.They should do the honourable thing and contact VXL for sure and hammer something out.be aware that I am just passing on information from the seller who had already dimensions and designs on his desk.

Re the FC-MOD please post your thoughts on the design everyone .if not here then on the design thread.

i understand that the main can is too narrow and needs to be 1/3 taller.the current matrix perc sits so high in the piece and requires heaps of water There is also noo need imo to have a removeable perc in the ashcatcher.Concentrating on perc swap outs for the Main Can only seems the sensible way to go.

In summary :

Wider main can but by how much??

1/3 Taller Main can?

Fixed showerhead perc ashcatcher current sizing ok?

Options for perc changeout on the main 29mm joint.

Thoughts? Or the current design will become the reality.

Click to expand...

The percs on the ashcatcher should remain interchangeable it's awesome

Cannabis Connoisseur said:

The percs on the ashcatcher should remain interchangeable it's awesome

Click to expand...

Thanks..Moving forward if the main can size is increased which looks likely.the downstem of the main can will no longer be interchangeable with the ash catcher.so two separate downstems will be needed for the piece.its a manufacturing detail that's all..

The other option is to increase the depth of the ash catcher to allow swap over.the ash catcher is already a nice size and maybe increasing it will look odd on the overall piece.thoughts?

As a standalone piece the ashcatcher is killer and Steven should stock it standalone..im interested to know if it will work in an ion for example.it has the aesthetics that would work well with any scientific piece.

I thought I would interject here. So you guys are correct, if they rip us off on our design, most likely we have very little recourse since they are in China. We don't have the resources or money to deal with it. What it does do to us is that it stifles innovation and hurts companies like ours that are actually doing something different and trying to do everything in the US. As the consumer, you probably don't give a shit and just want the most cost effective thing, I get it, but I don't operate that way. In the end, you guys are free to do whatever you want, just know in the end that it hurts small companies like mine.

I will say that this differs from the other knockoffs in that there is absolutely no other use for a Hydratube than to sit on top of an EVO. That's what it was designed for and what was patented. It was a new enough design that was different enough from the previous art for it to be granted to us. We can split hairs and semantics all we want but there would be no Hydratube design to copy if there were no EVO so it is very specifically proprietary to us.

In closing, what I will say is that doing something like this is like opening pandoras box. As many others have mentioned, I was a member here long before becoming a manufacturer and my thoughts were always to help this industry and push the technology forward. To have this same forum make knockoffs, definitely hurts us as a company and all the hard work that we put in to come up with and protect our intellectual property. Many manufacturers come to this forum as a place where they can test out ideas with a user base. If they begin feeling like this is just a place where their ideas get ripped off, then I'm sure that feeling will begin to change and that would totally suck.

Whether or not I participate in threads on this forum is a moot point, I am always reading and watching what is going on. I love this place for what it is, I even used to be a moderator here. But if this begins to become a place that hurts manufacturers, then this is not the place that I have once fell in love with.

u bwade wunner said:

im interested to know if it will work in an ion for example.

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I just used it this way and enjoyed it quite a bit.

Edit: It fits the FC-187 as well as the GB-187 (shown below)

@stonemonkey55 I agree with most of what you are saying, but I think you need to look at this more like music piracy. Not every illegal download is a lost sale as not everyone would be willing to pay if that were the only option. Similarly the amount of counterfeits sold which represent actual lost sales is probably pretty low. If I had not found this thread over a year ago I would probably still own just the one bong (bought from LHS, most likely Chinese but hard to say). Now I own a ton of China glass and one American heady (a millied out n3rd minitube). Will probably own more American pieces eventually as others have said this is a gateway to interest in glass. Now there are American pieces I want after trying the knockoff (bates x worm diffusion pump comes to mind). Similarly cheap hydratubes could spur interest in the vapexhale/legit hydratubes.

I would also take issue that the only use for a hydratube is an EVO. The e-nano and herbalaire can both accommodate them. Also the extreme q could use them with an adapter. Or just as a mouthpiece on pieces with removable mouthpiece such as the fc-ufo.

weenstoned said:

@stonemonkey55 I agree with most of what you are saying, but I think you need to look at this more like music piracy.....

I would also take issue that the only use for a hydratube is an EVO. The e-nano and herbalaire can both accommodate them. Also the extreme q could use them with an adapter. Or just as a mouthpiece on pieces with removable mouthpiece such as the fc-ufo.

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1. I agree with most of what stonemonkey says BUT would hope that inexpensive knockoff HT's would allow folks on a very limited budget to get into a HT and later they might very well buy the real thing.

2. And current VXL HT owners might like to add to their collection so they have a option for guests (read-clumsy mo-fos who I don't trust with any glass worth more than $50).

3. I would also be more supportive of "just say NO- knockoffs" IF the current VXL HTs were more moderately priced, where more folks could get into one. If VXL was $150 I'd own more AND not be looking at future knockoffs I don't know if HT design makes them way more expensive to craft or what, but they seem very expensive to me.

4. Like @weenstoned said, I don't see HT at all as being exclusive to Evo. I discovered VXL HT before discovering Evo and don't even own an Evo.

HT works with miniVAP, Herbie, Mighty/Crafty and I assume many more vapes.
I consider it a universal piece, originally developed for the Evo but useable on many vapes.

Complicated issue ....

Is VXL planning on offering any non final release HTs that are not sidecars? Once that one Evolver bent neck on the site is gone, that's it?

All the house glass HTs on their site are currently sidecars. As an owner of both a bent neck and a sidecar HT, I actually use my bent neck much more. What if I break it and don't want a side car as a replacement? What are a customers options, then? I'd have to go with the China piece if I wanted something in the same form factor as before.
Or have one custom made locally, but that is technically a violation of the patent, too.

Not trying to justify anything, just asking something I've been wondering for a while since the new fat bottom sidecar glass HTs came out.
So does anyone know if there are there gonna be any more non sidecar HTs offered by VXL?

Here's the video I shot last night of the first hit through the FC-Mod Max. My YouTube app no longer lets me upload videos directly from my phone, so I had to plug it into my PC in order to upload it. Argh!

Hey @Stu if you don't mind me asking your opinion, I was wondering if you noticed any subtle differences in flavour/performance when it came down to can size(in regards to the ion vs max). Thanks!

MinnBobber said:

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1. I agree with most of what stonemonkey says BUT would hope that inexpensive knockoff HT's would allow folks on a very limited budget to get into a HT and later they might very well buy the real thing.

2. And current VXL HT owners might like to add to their collection so they have a option for guests (read-clumsy mo-fos who I don't trust with any glass worth more than $50).

3. I would also be more supportive of "just say NO- knockoffs" IF the current VXL HTs were more moderately priced, where more folks could get into one. If VXL was $150 I'd own more AND not be looking at future knockoffs I don't know if HT design makes them way more expensive to craft or what, but they seem very expensive to me.

4. Like @weenstoned said, I don't see HT at all as being exclusive to Evo. I discovered VXL HT before discovering Evo and don't even own an Evo.

HT works with miniVAP, Herbie, Mighty/Crafty and I assume many more vapes.
I consider it a universal piece, originally developed for the Evo but useable on many vapes.

Complicated issue ....

Click to expand...

Totally agree with point 3 and also that they can be used with other vapes. I personally think it's ridiculous that a patent would be granted for such a general use thing. 18mm gong joints arent anything new, and literally all an HT is is a bubbler/bong with an internal 18mm gong on the bottom.

Imo I own a vapexhale and a hydratube, i use the hydratube for other things asides from the vapexhale
(arizer solo and mighty with attachment).

I also own an original Stereo Matrix and two matrix knock-offs.

I also did this

I'm all for supporting the manufacturer, but just buying the vaporizer itself was a huge investment for me.

In closing, they are creating a piece which you guys don't even produce anymore to my knowledge, so eh.
This is the best vaporization forum in the internet, with one of the best communities I've ever seen on any forum PERIOD. Honestly I think if anything these new hydratubes will encourage more people to get a vapexhale cloud.

LBsEveryday said:

Hey @Stu if you don't mind me asking your opinion, I was wondering if you noticed any subtle differences in flavour/performance when it came down to can size(in regards to the ion vs max). Thanks!

Click to expand...

Flavor/performance wise, no. But I do seem to prefer the mouthpiece of the ion over the Max mouthpiece, if that counts for anything. Next test for me will be using Max with my Vertigo tree HT as a mouthpiece.

Look, like I said, from a consumer's point of view, I understand what you guys are doing. If I could get something reasonably similar for cheaper, I would do the same. I'm only biased here because I have a lot personally invested in this and something like this sets a precedence for anyone else that wants to do the same thing. We are required to send a cease and desist letter to anyone we know that violates our patent because if we don't, we lose our patent. Unfortunately, this just runs up legal fees for basically what results in a net zero scenario and unfortunately, the only people who profit are the attorneys.

I guess that's the cost of doing business but what we will do is work hard to bring down the price of Hydratubes. Perhaps people are ready for Chinese made Hydratubes and we will ditch our American only philosophy. We will collect more data before making a decision as that is something that we have been very proud of but we don't make our money on the EVO, we make it on the glass and if counterfeit glass takes that market away from us, then this company will require another business model to evolve with this new situation. I would have much rather this be because a worthy adversary created a product that delivered the same experience of the EVO at a cheaper price but if the end result are cheaper Hydratubes of comparable quality, then everyone wins.

Stu said:

Flavor/performance wise, no. But I do seem to prefer the mouthpiece of the ion over the Max mouthpiece, if that counts for anything. Next test for me will be using Max with my Vertigo tree HT as a mouthpiece.

Click to expand...

Thanks for rigorously testing out Max

It would be interesting to hear about the MODs stability with the vertigo in place.

Do you think increasing the height of the main can by 30% is the way to go Stu and do You think width of main can will work or should it be increased slightly.I can definitely see the need for a 30% increase in height of main can.Its hard to know without having the piece In front of me.

Thanks in advance

stonemonkey55 said:

I would have much rather this be because a worthy adversary created a product that delivered the same experience of the EVO at a cheaper price but if the end result are cheaper Hydratubes of comparable quality, then everyone wins.

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Except for the U.S. blowers. At least if you switch over to chinese production.

u bwade wunner said:

Do you think increasing the height of the main can by 30% is the way to go Stu and do You think width of main can will work or should it be increased slightly.I can definitely see the need for a 30% increase in height of main can.Its hard to know without having the piece In front of me.

Click to expand...

If the goal is to re-create the Devastator, then yes I think the can should be not only heightened, but also widened. Same for the a/c.

Having said that, the piece functions fine as is, but it's just not quite in the same league as the OG Devastator.

Edit: I tried the Vertigo HT on max.


The cons with this configuration were that you can't see the vapor forming in any of the three chambers, and the flavor is pretty well stripped out of the hit. On the plus size, the hits were smoooooooth.

The HT kinda dwarfs the FC-mod, though.

stonemonkey55 said:

Look, like I said, from a consumer's point of view, I understand what you guys are doing. If I could get something reasonably similar for cheaper, I would do the same. I'm only biased here because I have a lot personally invested in this and something like this sets a precedence for anyone else that wants to do the same thing. We are required to send a cease and desist letter to anyone we know that violates our patent because if we don't, we lose our patent. Unfortunately, this just runs up legal fees for basically what results in a net zero scenario and unfortunately, the only people who profit are the attorneys.

I guess that's the cost of doing business but what we will do is work hard to bring down the price of Hydratubes. Perhaps people are ready for Chinese made Hydratubes and we will ditch our American only philosophy. We will collect more data before making a decision as that is something that we have been very proud of but we don't make our money on the EVO, we make it on the glass and if counterfeit glass takes that market away from us, then this company will require another business model to evolve with this new situation. I would have much rather this be because a worthy adversary created a product that delivered the same experience of the EVO at a cheaper price but if the end result are cheaper Hydratubes of comparable quality, then everyone wins.

Click to expand...

I was actually going to suggest considering offering both american and chinese glass,
I think if anything this will boost sales, I find it really really hard to believe your company doesn't make money on the evo's but the hydratubes they come with, I bought my cloud originally without a hydratube.

I bet half of head shop "glass" is chinese. And not priced as such.
At least you know what your buying.

hafalump said:

I bet half of head shop "glass" is chinese. And not priced as such.
At least you know what your buying.

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some of the places around here are like 100% chinese XD

Those pinnacle 14mm hydrotube knockoffs have been coming out of China for months now, I'm confused why joint size would matter...just saying. That patent has been being infringed on for awhile now by a *bunch* of sellers.

Dangus said:

Those pinnacle 14mm hydrotubes have been coming out of China for months now, I'm confused why joint size would matter...just saying. That patent has been being infringed on for awhile now by a *bunch* of sellers.

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That's what i'm saying lol. Like with most chinese glass, you always have the option to support the creators, but it's still great that there's also the availability for cheaper glass for those of us who may not be as financially well off as others here.

@stonemonkey55 I would agree if we were debating on how to clone the Cloud Evo, we are talking about a mouthpiece that costs 250$.

justcametomind said:

@stonemonkey55 I would agree if we were debating on how to clone the Cloud Evo, we are talking about a mouthpiece that costs 250$.

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Just reiterating I agree also. I would personally have a moral problem with trying to create a chinese knockoff of the cloud and i'd also have legitimate health concerns, hydratube is a different matter though.

I don't own an evo, but if I can get a variety of glass for it without breaking the bank, I would order one today.

It's a catch22 when it comes to knockoffs in everything. There's a certain market for certain ppl. Not everyone is gonna pay the American glass premium, and this opens up opportunities for people who want the vape but can't cope w spending hundreds on a glass solely for it.

The fact that it's supposed to only have use w the evo makes it even less justifiable to spend the cash.

Cheaper glass could result in more evos out there