Crafty/Crafty+ by Storz & Bickel

perspectionist · Sep 17, 2015

skeletor said:
Hey @perspectionist -- any word from S & B?

Take everything I am about to say with a grain of salt because I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. But, as a legal "hobbyist," your question intrigued me a bit.

I think S & B would have to argue you used some sort of non-approved herb in the device and connect that to the reason for warranty rejection for it to have any bearing in court. The device vaporizes lots of things at 190 degrees C - including three things with medicinal application in the manual: Sage, Thyme, & Chamomile. There isn't any reason for you to disclose what you put in the device and your use is consistent with vaporizing those three herbs.

S & B is probably not wanting to wade into that legal water either. At that point, it raises questions about what they are doing shipping a device they know to have cannabis residue across state lines. (Hint: This is probably why S & B says "Ship us only your Crafty base, and not your cooling unit" on a warranty swap -- because they don't want the liability of being on the receiving end of dirty cooling units full of thc buildup and getting pwned by the US Federal Government for participating in interstate drug trafficking).

Now that I am thinking about it more, though, you might have to appear in court in CA to sue S & B in small claims court -- but you might have some recourse with the California Attorney General's office...

Thanx skeletor ! I have still not heard anything from S&B. No e-mail response, no calls... Nothin'! I even tried to call again and couldnt get through on any option. Not even sales.

I have read conflicting opinions on where a small claims appearances should be, but I would like to resolve this outside of the court system.

I'm even considering offering them a compromise. Since it would cost time and money taking them to small claims (although i could probably factor this into the claim) I would offer them enough to cover their costs for a replacement. This would be a win/win for both parties. $239 to replace the crafty that should be under warranty is ridiculous. One would think they would want to keep a customer rather than going to a competitor.

The problem is that I get no responses.

I even tried to fax them. Their machine doesnt pick up either. :mad:

Crafty Vaper · Sep 17, 2015

perspectionist said:
Thanx skeletor ! I have still not heard anything from S&B. No e-mail response, no calls... Nothin'! I even tried to call again and couldnt get through on any option. Not even sales.

I have read conflicting opinions on where a small claims appearances should be, but I would like to resolve this outside of the court system.

I'm even considering offering them a compromise. Since it would cost time and money taking them to small claims (although i could probably factor this into the claim) I would offer them enough to cover their costs for a replacement. This would be a win/win for both parties. $239 to replace the crafty that should be under warranty is ridiculous. One would think they would want to keep a customer rather than going to a competitor.

The problem is that I get no responses.

I even tried to fax them. Their machine doesnt pick up either.

Are you contacting S&B Germany or US?

Budley Moore · Sep 17, 2015

I recently purchased a crafty after reading most of this forum thread and seeing so many positive reviews. Unfortunately I cannot get a burning plastic like smell out of the unit. It does not exist when cool but is really noticeable after heating.

Has anyone else experienced this? I am really disappointed as I cannot see a similar unit for this price that performs this well and am now a bit put off using a crafty altogether.

Kaptan · Sep 17, 2015

Budley Moore said:
I recently purchased a crafty after reading most of this forum thread and seeing so many positive reviews. Unfortunately I cannot get a burning plastic like smell out of the unit. It does not exist when cool but is really noticeable after heating.

Has anyone else experienced this? I am really disappointed as I cannot see a similar unit for this price that performs this well and am now a bit put off using a crafty altogether.

Sounds like its time to contact S&B for a warranty replacement.

WakeAndVape · Sep 17, 2015

Budley Moore said:
I recently purchased a crafty after reading most of this forum thread and seeing so many positive reviews. Unfortunately I cannot get a burning plastic like smell out of the unit. It does not exist when cool but is really noticeable after heating.

Has anyone else experienced this? I am really disappointed as I cannot see a similar unit for this price that performs this well and am now a bit put off using a crafty altogether.

Never. I used my crafty fresh out the box (mighty too) with no burn offs, it has been 'A-1 since day 1'

Stinky · Sep 17, 2015

Budley Moore said:
I recently purchased a crafty after reading most of this forum thread and seeing so many positive reviews. Unfortunately I cannot get a burning plastic like smell out of the unit. It does not exist when cool but is really noticeable after heating.

Has anyone else experienced this? I am really disappointed as I cannot see a similar unit for this price that performs this well and am now a bit put off using a crafty altogether.

My retailer tests all units and conducts a burn in with all units before they send them out.

If you clean your cooling unit and it is still happening then contact B&S for a warranty replacement.

Also check that you aren't chipping pieces of plastic of the heating unit into the oven when you are putting the cooling unit on. This is a common problem with the flaw in the design due to the way the plastic softens from use.

Budley Moore · Sep 18, 2015

Thanks for the replies. I would have thought if the plastic is resistant to the heat given off then it shouldn't change from use right?

Jherst · Sep 18, 2015

Budley Moore said:
Thanks for the replies. I would have thought if the plastic is resistant to the heat given off then it shouldn't change from use right?

Just out of curiosity where did you purchase your Crafty from? I recently bought a counterfeit Mighty accidentally off eBay and the burning plastic smell was extremely strong and didn't go away after countless burnoffs. Could it possibly be a counterfeit?

Thcgos · Sep 18, 2015

I had a very faint plastic taste on my crafty.
(definitely not counterfeit).

I ran 1 bowl through it, and it was gone for good by the very next bowl. I've never had the smell return, even after 30+ hrs and many CU iso washes.

Run a bowl through it.

perspectionist · Sep 18, 2015

Crafty Vaper said:
Are you contacting S&B Germany or US?

I've been trying to work with S&B US. I wonder if I should try contacting Germany? Whould this be considered moving "up the ladder" or would they just pass me back off to the US?

Maybe an E-mail addressed directly to Jürgen Bickel or Markus Storz? Obviously they would never really recieve it, but maybe it would help provide some sort of customer service. Maybe a realization of the lack of customer service at S&B America?

Budley Moore · Sep 18, 2015

I bought mine from a reputable company so do not think it is a fake. They mentioned some people are more sensitive to the smell of the heated plastic than others. But this makes me think if it is not reacting to the heat why is the nasty smell only present when heated. If I run a bowl through it I cannot return it, so looks like it is going back to be tested by them. I am a bit put off now though...

Stinky · Sep 18, 2015

Budley Moore said:
Thanks for the replies. I would have thought if the plastic is resistant to the heat given off then it shouldn't change from use right?

The plastic goes soft after being exposed to heat for a while and chips away. Have a look through both the Crafty and Mighty threads as there are lots of pics. The problem was the reason for the first major redesign of the casing.

perspectionist said:
I've been trying to work with S&B US. I wonder if I should try contacting Germany? Whould this be considered moving "up the ladder" or would they just pass me back off to the US?

Maybe an E-mail addressed directly to Jürgen Bickel or Markus Storz? Obviously they would never really recieve it, but maybe it would help provide some sort of customer service. Maybe a realization of the lack of customer service at S&B America?

It's worth a try. At worst they could just ignore you or tell you to contact the U.S.

Let us know how you go.

Thcgos · Sep 18, 2015

Hey all,

Finally it's happened :clap:

.... It looks like vapefiend has been listening to us.

They have come up with an adapter that bypasses the cooling unit allowing for direct water tool usage (exactly like the muzzmod).
Available in 14mm and 18mm.

https://www.vapefiend.co.uk/crafty-...eo_path=crafty/mighty-easy-flow-water-adapter

Instagram video of it in use:
https://instagram.com/p/7xNtNLHej4/

It's £15.99
USD ~$25
CAD ~$33
AUD ~$35

Bit expensive especially if you have to ship from UK (where they are based).
But hey, it's been done!!!

biohacker · Sep 18, 2015

This is HUGE!!!! Thanks for posting!!!! :rockon:

Mainoffender · Sep 18, 2015

perspectionist said:
I've been trying to work with S&B US. I wonder if I should try contacting Germany? Whould this be considered moving "up the ladder" or would they just pass me back off to the US?

Maybe an E-mail addressed directly to Jürgen Bickel or Markus Storz? Obviously they would never really recieve it, but maybe it would help provide some sort of customer service. Maybe a realization of the lack of customer service at S&B America?

Good luck. When my Mighty failed on day one I emailed and got a copied on an email from S and B Germany to Oakland telling them to exchange my Mighty for a new one. After waiting another 4 days I called Oakland and was told they'd repair the one I had but I had to pay for shipping. Others seem to have no trouble dealing with them at all. They're pretty messed up.

ligi · Sep 18, 2015

Hotz said:
My phone decided to upgrade to android 5.1, I believe that my application will not work anymore, right?

At a time ago I saw a forum User posted an application developed by himself here in the topic, mybe with this application i will be able to connect normally?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.ligi.vaporizercontrol - let me know if you still have problems

MonsterWithoutBorders · Sep 19, 2015

fishwater said:
Thanks @Mr. Me2, I looked at the grasshopper as well but figured the Crafty would be a better long term investment for my needs. Again, hopefully all of us get the the life out of the product we expect.

I've been reading this thread & still uncertain on the best charging practices, whether it makes sense to charge after every use like some users are doing or whether it makes sense to let the battery deplete first?

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
This is the most comprehensive article I have seen on charging a lithium-ion type battery.
I have read it a few times and I think I know what not to do but I am not sure that I totally
get what the correct strategy would be.

My guess would be. Don't let it drop below 20% before charging. Don't charge it while being
in use as that can confuse the programming and could lead to overcharging or perhaps some other
not so good outcome. Also it is probably a good idea to take it off the power once it is fully charged (not a rule but a good practice). If you are going to store the battery for a long time a charge about 40% is optimum (this rule is a little vague).

I charge the battery from about 40% to 90%. I look at the chart and it seems that this gives
me a very long life but I am not sure given the chart what is the optimum charge pattern.

Look at chart in how to prolong life of lithium based batteries at battery university.

Mangled Alaskan · Sep 19, 2015

Thcgos said:
Hey all,

Finally it's happened .... It looks like vapefiend has been listening to us.

They have come up with an adapter that bypasses the cooling unit allowing for direct water tool usage (exactly like the muzzmod).
Available in 14mm and 18mm.

https://www.vapefiend.co.uk/crafty-...eo_path=crafty/mighty-easy-flow-water-adapter

Instagram video of it in use:
https://instagram.com/p/7xNtNLHej4/

It's £15.99
USD ~$25
CAD ~$33
AUD ~$35

Bit expensive especially if you have to ship from UK (where they are based).
But hey, it's been done!!!

What's the connector made of? Is it hard PEEK plastic like the stock CU?

BioSector · Sep 20, 2015

Sigh.. Just after I had a weird thing tonight with my Mighty not heating up (it resolved after two power cycles).... I'm mid session with Crafty, it hits regular set temp for the 5th time which is when I'd boost it so I do. Watching the flashing red light thinking hmm, this is taking a while.. take a draw and get an okay cloud.. waiting.. waiting... waiting.... take a draw and realize i'm losing temp..

Turn it off, fucking yellow and red lights.. 12 hours on this one (my 2nd). Really disappointed at the moment.

Stinky · Sep 20, 2015

BioSector said:
Sigh.. Just after I had a weird thing tonight with my Mighty not heating up (it resolved after two power cycles).... I'm mid session with Crafty, it hits regular set temp for the 5th time which is when I'd boost it so I do. Watching the flashing red light thinking hmm, this is taking a while.. take a draw and get an okay cloud.. waiting.. waiting... waiting.... take a draw and realize i'm losing temp..

Turn it off, fucking yellow and red lights.. 12 hours on this one (my 2nd). Really disappointed at the moment.

Check that your power adapter isn't broken. They replaced the power adapters with a new model that isn't supposed to break as easily. I have two power adapters and a car adapter just in case.

BioSector · Sep 20, 2015

Stinky said:
Check that your power adapter isn't broken. They replaced the power adapters with a new model that isn't supposed to break as easily. I have two power adapters and a car adapter just in case.

You must have misread, this is nothing to do with charging. This is when I turn it on, the red light comes on to indicate heating but the temperature never rises. Shutting it off results in the flashing yellow and red lights and the message to return it to S&B in the app.

SatanLovestoVape · Sep 20, 2015

BioSector said:
Sigh.. Just after I had a weird thing tonight with my Mighty not heating up (it resolved after two power cycles).... I'm mid session with Crafty, it hits regular set temp for the 5th time which is when I'd boost it so I do. Watching the flashing red light thinking hmm, this is taking a while.. take a draw and get an okay cloud.. waiting.. waiting... waiting.... take a draw and realize i'm losing temp..

Turn it off, fucking yellow and red lights.. 12 hours on this one (my 2nd). Really disappointed at the moment.

Damn, man that really sucks. My first Crafty lasted around 175 hours on 2.0.4, but 12 hours that's too short for a $400 device. You spent like $800 worth of your hard earned cash expecting to get the best, but yet they don't work. I will be giving S&B hell for it. Hopefully they will take care of you, but reading these stories on here CS has been really slacking lately.

Stinky · Sep 20, 2015

BioSector said:
You must have misread, this is nothing to do with charging. This is when I turn it on, the red light comes on to indicate heating but the temperature never rises. Shutting it off results in the flashing yellow and red lights and the message to return it to S&B in the app.

No worries. I thought it could be a common link as you had 2 units die in one day.

BioSector · Sep 20, 2015

Stinky said:
No worries. I thought it could be a common link as you had 2 units die in one day.

Oh, I see. One crafty and one mighty however so different chargers. Good call though.

@SatanLovestoVape it must be a flaw in manufacturing that happens sooner or later and I got unlucky. Since I'm in Canada I have to pay to ship too, I'll ask for more accessories to cover my cost but I already have 7 cooling units lol.

WakeAndVape · Sep 20, 2015

BioSector said:
Oh, I see. One crafty and one mighty however so different chargers. Good call though.

@SatanLovestoVape it must be a flaw in manufacturing that happens sooner or later and I got unlucky. Since I'm in Canada I have to pay to ship too, I'll ask for more accessories to cover my cost but I already have 7 cooling units lol.

Why would they make you pay JUST because your in canada? That doesn't seems right.

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