Open Source Glass Thread

herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Frederick McGuire said:
Christ on a cracker...
$500 isn't much?

It's a fair value for the work that went into it.
I won't deny that.

But that's a fuck-tonne of money for A LOT of people.

There are many people who won't drop that much on a piece. Full stop.

Most people will never spend that much on glass even if it was for 10 rigs...

Those people MAY buy a cheapie knockoff.
Then if they like it, they might consider saving up for a proper one.

A awesome as a propellor perc looks, I don't know if I can justify dropping close to $800 on it (after intl currency conversion and shipping).
However, if I tried out a Chinese copy, and liked it, it would be a lot easier for me to start saving for one...

I know I'm not buying the best representation of the piece, but I'm buying the piece that will allow me to actually afford the herb to put through it.

Accidentally posted halfway through typing...
Click to expand...
I've already said my piece on the position regarding commissioning cheap China knock-offs of original works so won't further derail on this aspect.

However, by the same token that you describe above, how many people try a cheap knock off vape as their first - usually out of fear of perceived expensiveness - only to find that its function is inadequate and are put off vaping forever as a result? We regularly see such people come through these parts.

This could very easily happen with China glass too and could have the opposite effect to what you describe, pushing people away from the real product potentially.

Also expensiveness is a subjective phenomenon. It relates to a persons economic situation in part, but not entirely.

For example, anything that costs me time for example is personally considered an expense these days. I would much rather spend a few hundred bucks than the time I could spend chasing up replacement of pieces that arrive broken or not functional. I see this happen with China pieces bought by friends around these parts (including yourself) pretty regularly compared to the multiple more expensive pieces I and friends of mine around these parts have bought, which have always arrived quickly and in perfect condition.

As a day-in, day-out medical user, I want tried and true, consistent glass from a reputable retailer and/or blower - especially one who will stand behind it if something goes wrong - I'm happy to pay good money for this. I understand others may have different usage scenarios and hence see different prices as reasonable - I can respect that!

Where a blower goes above and beyond to repair their work if something goes wrong for free (Ryu Wilson has done this for me before, and is a great dude - the break was completely my fault, dropped a worked globe and smashed it!), this to me is a service which is worth extra funds.

Other people will have different views of course, but I especially would feel like I was doing the wrong thing if I went out and actively asked a Chinese manufacturer to rip off an owner-operated business' product directly simply to save money when the original vendor offers such exceptional service for what we both agree is a reasonable price for the work alone.

As I said earlier, everyone has to make up their own mind about where they draw the line. I don't presume to tell you guys what to do or know your scenarios and speak only of my own position :peace:
 
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weenstoned

weenstoned

Well-Known Member
Definitely agree with @Frederick McGuire about potentially being sold on a legit version by trying a Chinese version. Would have never considered buying a legit diffusion pump before buying the FC-710. Now I would strongly consider it. I don't think Bates X Worm is a huge company like mothership, and at $300 the normal diffusion pump is also very reasonably priced. Just seems weird for everyone to fanboy the FC-710 yet Pukinbeagle stuff is off limits.
 
Frederick McGuire

Frederick McGuire

Aggressively Loungey
herbivore21 said:
I've already said my piece on the position regarding commissioning cheap China knock-offs of original works so won't further derail on this aspect.

However, by the same token that you describe above, how many people try a cheap knock off vape as their first - usually out of fear of perceived expensiveness - only to find that its function is inadequate and are put off vaping forever as a result? We regularly see such people come through these parts.

This could very easily happen with China glass too and could have the opposite effect to what you describe, pushing people away from the real product potentially.

Also expensiveness is a subjective phenomenon. It relates to a persons economic situation in part, but not entirely.

For example, anything that costs me time for example is personally considered an expense these days. I would much rather spend a few hundred bucks than the time I could spend chasing up replacement of pieces that arrive broken or not functional. I see this happen with China pieces bought by friends around these parts (including yourself) pretty regularly compared to the multiple more expensive pieces I and friends of mine around these parts have bought, which have always arrived quickly and in perfect condition.

As a day-in, day-out medical user, I want tried and true, consistent glass from a reputable retailer and/or blower - especially one who will stand behind it if something goes wrong - I'm happy to pay good money for this. I understand others may have different usage scenarios and hence see different prices as reasonable - I can respect that!

Where a blower goes above and beyond to repair their work if something goes wrong for free (Ryu Wilson has done this for me before, and is a great dude - the break was completely my fault, dropped a worked globe and smashed it!), this to me is a service which is worth extra funds.

Other people will have different views of course, but I especially would feel like I was doing the wrong thing if I went out and actively asked a Chinese manufacturer to rip off an owner-operated business' product directly simply to save money when the original vendor offers such exceptional service for what we both agree is a reasonable price for the work alone.

As I said earlier, everyone has to make up their own mind about where they draw the line. I don't presume to tell you guys what to do or know your scenarios and speak only of my own position :peace:
Click to expand...
I think bad vapes are slightly different in that they actually completely waste bud...

The infamous shitty hot plate dome vape literally just turns good bud into black crap for almost no payoff.

I can fully appreciate it when someone values aspects of the service that the higher price point is fine with them - as I said, I think the pricing is fair for the piece, even if he didn't offer repairs etc.

What annoyed me was the blanket assumption that a $500 bubbler was cheap.

Good value? Potentially yes.
Cheap? Not to anyone who isn't quite financially comfortable.
I have owned a car that cost less than that...

Just because something is good value doesn't mean I can afford it.
But because something is cheap means by definition I probably can afford it.

It's like just about anything:
You can get the cheap stuff that is lower quality and will probably break quicker, but lower up front cost, or you can get quality at a higher up front cost that will probably last you a lot longer...
 
herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Frederick McGuire said:
I think bad vapes are slightly different in that they actually completely waste bud...

The infamous shitty hot plate dome vape literally just turns good bud into black crap for almost no payoff.

I can fully appreciate it when someone values aspects of the service that the higher price point is fine with them - as I said, I think the pricing is fair for the piece, even if he didn't offer repairs etc.

What annoyed me was the blanket assumption that a $500 bubbler was cheap.

Good value? Potentially yes.
Cheap? Not to anyone who isn't quite financially comfortable.
I have owned a car that cost less than that...

Just because something is good value doesn't mean I can afford it.
But because something is cheap means by definition I probably can afford it.

It's like just about anything:
You can get the cheap stuff that is lower quality and will probably break quicker, but lower up front cost, or you can get quality at a higher up front cost that will probably last you a lot longer...
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more brother, this is why I stopped short of ever saying it was cheap, sticking to calling it justified/reasonable. It would be preposterous to think that $500 for a piece is something that everybody can afford! Clearly so many people who are not even broke could not spare that much money for something like this, especially for the recreational or infrequent user!

Also you are even more spot on in saying the infamous conduction hot plate dome vape (actually seems more like the first e-nail to me now that I think of it lol!) is definitely the classic example of something that could put you off vaping forever because of all the wasted bud with no discernable effect. I had one of these many moons ago and I think it was my third attempt using it when I realized that I had been duped and cursed the charlatans who sold me it, saying a somber prayer for the 1g of bud or so which had been sent to the great mason jar in the sky (but without a viking funeral)!

I was more referring to vapes like the Pinnacle Pro. I know a couple of people who were permanently turned off vaping by this product (although initially happy, like I was). Although I couldn't say that it wastes bud; it'll vape it pretty well before almost inevitably having problems - it was just so prone to dealbreaking issues like melting plastic, cracking plastic which were then backed up with the worst customer service experience I have ever encountered in all my time dealing with vape manufacturers!

This is a similar scenario to what I was imagining a China propeller perc could end up being. That spinning glass perc's dimensions are gonna need to fit within some pretty tight tolerances to not risk damaging the glass! If someone were to get a piece that worked initially and then had some catastrophic failure (all it could take is some reclaim to get stuck in the wrong place and shift the angle of a sloppily mounted propeller) they may leave with the impression that this perc concept is a no go. Of course this is not necessarily what would happen, but I see it more likely that this sort of knock off would have problems like this than most other bubbler designs :)
 
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CG420

CG420

Over the horizon u can see the edges of the Earth
I understand that this shouldn't be copied but definitely would be nice to see more affordable rigs with this design. If I could, I'd perfect this function of the perc and there would be the clear difference in terms of originality and perfection between a knock off/similar yet affordable alternative. If China makes you so afraid of this design being redone for cheaper you should consider making more affordable range of rigs. If you can't, well then you'll experience the Rockefeller effect. That's what happens when some humans become innovators.
 
CG420,
R

RufioCraftPukinBeagle

New Member
CG420 said:
I understand that this shouldn't be copied but definitely would be nice to see more affordable rigs with this design. If I could, I'd perfect this function of the perc and there would be the clear difference in terms of originality and perfection between a knock off/similar yet affordable alternative. If China makes you so afraid of this design being redone for cheaper you should consider making more affordable range of rigs. If you can't, well then you'll experience the Rockefeller effect. That's what happens when some humans become innovators.
Click to expand...

Pukinbeagle doesnt care if anyone recreated his idea, EVEN CHINA. China has ripped off all his quartz nails and he doesnt care. For you apparently "non stoners" to collectively try and backstab ron and send jenky blueprints to china is a different story. If china wants to copy his rig, let them figure out how to.

To address the guys argument "well if I like a china copy then maybe I'll buy the real one". You are either lying or straight in denial, the reason people buy china rigs is they cant afford the real one and even if they get the money they will spend in on herb/oil not an expensive rig. The only thing China propeller percs will do is harm the reputation of Pukinbeagle while China pretends they are the real thing, then people who buy them will try to resell them as the Pukinbeagle American made.
 
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RufioCraftPukinBeagle,
flotntoke

flotntoke

thoroughly vaped
Shhhhhhh... do you hear that? It's the world's tiniest violin playing for Pukinbeagle and any other US and 1st world manufacturers (glass, vapes, ANYTHING) and retailers upset about the way business works in the 21st century. Be they issues created by China (Asia in general really), WalMart, Amazon or anything else - including people here on FC or from anywhere.

I'm not saying whether it is good, bad, nice, mean, fair, unfair or anything else. What I am saying is that's the way it is.

There is no backstabbing Ron or anyone else. It's business and economics, same as it has always been. The difference? These things move faster and spread quicker & further across the globe with every passing month - again, same as they have for centuries. And, not that I personally condone any of it, but better than it was in the time when whole countries were colonized (or worse) and their cultures irrevocably altered or nearly erased in the name of greed and profit.

It's up to anyone trying to make money to find a way to make their product attractive and desirable to consumers - pricing and quality being a large factor of either. If not, their business collapses, and they go hungry. This includes finding a way to keep customers and potential customers from going to competitors who copy your ideas and do it for cheaper. I'll spare everyone here the multi volume tome of examples that could easily be provided, but don't think anyone would be hard pressed to come up with at least a few right off the top of their head.

I can appreciate your opinion on people helping Chinese blowers (or anyone doing similar, be it for profit or personal use of the products), but don't agree with it. Last I checked Ron, and the multitude of others in all fields who must endure the reality or face extinction, weren't doing anything special for me. My disdain is much greater for people who create accounts on forums solely to come in and troll because they have a bug up their ass about whatever issue.
 
flotntoke

flotntoke

thoroughly vaped
RufioCraftPB said:
Thanks for the ban and enjoy your jenk China glass.

Also I was never trolling, just defending my friends.
Click to expand...

Don't think I had anything to do with your ban. I don't hit "report". Know it is discouraged by mods, but I just reply or ignore when I see idiots.

Also, didn't say you were trolling, but since you bring it up..... yeah, you were. Defending your friends is one thing. Doing it like this is completely different. Had you taken just a few moments to read anywhere on FC (instead of coming on and spewing as you did), you'd see just how unusual this kind of thing is here. Kind of makes you stick out like a sore thumb.

Since you're back on with a different name, you may want to check the rules real quick (link at top of every page) regarding evading a ban by registering a new account. Don't really think you'll be missed!

I will continue to enjoy my "jenk" and very inexpensive China glass as I do my US glass - a few pieces of which I had custom done by a small operation blower - probably not quite as lucrative with it as your friend seems. He does great stuff, but don't think any goes for even close to $500.

Just to be perfectly clear here.... Pukinbeagle seems like a great operation and looks like they do some nice stuff. I really hope they do well with their prop percs at whatever price they decide they can sell them for. But the rest and the presentation of it above? Let's just say I hate it when I hit an alert on FC and once I start reading it seems GC (or worse) changed their webpage background!

weenstoned said:
It really makes me lol when people infer that the Chinese aren't good at manufacturing complex stuff.
Click to expand...

Hear ya! Yeah.. their culture and technology never really existed until westerners showed them how it was done! :rofl: Wasn't that the whole deal with Marco Polo (and the probably thousands of unnamed others like him)? They were going to the east to teach!
 
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CG420

CG420

Over the horizon u can see the edges of the Earth
Delete this. I shouldn't have ever gave a fuck.. I'm sorry for derailing.
 
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CG420,
yps790

yps790

New Member
Dramma Lamma said:
That is quite concerning as he already has 4 videos of it and all he had to do was send you a link to one of them...
1
2
3
4
Are we sure he speaks English?
Perhaps as usual "water test" doesn't translate so well?
Either way that's a bit of a red flag in my book.



Updated suggestion for the 242 and how to alter uptake tubes to accommodate suggested MP change.
100_6836.jpg

The old path has been scribbled over in pencil, ignore that.
New path is drawn in green/blue.
The idea would be the green/blue path would swoop UNDER the other path, then do a last second U turn as it comes up in height to meet the vortex chamber, thus we get the right direction.



I have a few pieces of glass where I like a drop down strictly to get the nail out of my face and farther down. The one Blank rider pictured would do a good job of that.

The other thing it can be nice for is placing the nail at the exact height of your torch so you can be lazy and just set it up right distance and not have to hold and aim the torch really.

Male and female versions would be needed tho for me.

EDIT: while we are on th subject of dropdown combo items, am I the only one who would be intrested in a drop down reclaim catcher? Something like this:
MP1420-2.jpg
Click to expand...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I need something like this in a 14mm and an 18mm. Omg nice find :)

I need help guys.. :shrug: I am stuck at the moment with GB-194-1:ugh: from Yingmin5, FC-186:hmm:, FC-200:\, or FC-fab:razz: from stevelmz98. I been stuck at this for like 2 months now :bang::doh:
 
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yps790,
Frederick McGuire

Frederick McGuire

Aggressively Loungey
CrazyCannuck said:
Look what just popped up on Steven's YouTube, the Devastator clone:
Looks pretty good
Click to expand...


Anyone got any thoughts on how the devastator is coming along?
Especially as compared to this pic of the real deal:

devastator1d.jpg


I'm thinking:
Possibly move up 10mm more joint size (I can't tell exactly the joint size in the vid, but for example, if it's 40mm, make it 50mm.

And then add like 1-2 inches of height to the main can, and like 1/2 - 1 inch to the height of the A/C

Then add a brace under the main cans mouthpiece joint and it's golden Imo.

Edit:
And IMO the base should be at least as wide as the mouthpiece joint, though the current base also looks fine :)

Thoughts?
 
jojo monkey

jojo monkey

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
I hope he sells the devastator w/o the catcher and w/ a diffusion pump. A bigger base is always better too.

I would still prefer a !8mm diffusion pump that worked like the fc-ufo: a big can that I can add my own mouthpiece or whip.

I could care less if glass is copied.

Good artists copy, great artists steal.

-Pablo Picasso
Click to expand...
 
Frederick McGuire

Frederick McGuire

Aggressively Loungey
I don't know how he plans on selling them, but I could certainly see both parts selling well on their own.

I'm hoping they'll basically be available separately, and as a combo for a slight discount.
 
Frederick McGuire,
B

brucee10

Well-Known Member
jojo monkey said:
I hope he sells the devastator w/o the catcher and w/ a diffusion pump. A bigger base is always better too.

I would still prefer a !8mm diffusion pump that worked like the fc-ufo: a big can that I can add my own mouthpiece or whip.

I could care less if glass is copied.
Click to expand...

You've just described exactly what I wanted.
 
MoltenTiger

MoltenTiger

Well-Known Member
I'm liking the removable stem A/C
This design should become available stand-alone in 14/18mm size with matrix, laced, shower head, 21 hole diffuser, straight through or slitted downstems available.

I could see these being popular - it's great to be able to see the vapour forming before it enters the piece.
And honeycomb ash catchers (like the one I'm using now) are so chuggy compared to the smooth luxurios draw of a 21-hole diffuser stem, or similar.
________

I think your suggestions for the devastator clone are spot on though
 
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