Discontinued The Grasshopper

It seems someone mentioned if you set it down on something metal that it would act crazy. Just didn't know if there was a difference in conductivity between the two, which apparantly turns out to be negligible.

Joel W. said:

<everyone switches to Ti overnight and my SS shows up sooner>

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Muwhaaaaaaa, yes!

zymos said:

Titanium is only a slightly poorer electrical conductor than SS.

"Titanium is not a good conductor of electricity. If the conductivity of copper is considered to be 100%, titanium would have a conductivity of 3.1%. From this it follows that titanium would not be used where good conductivity is a prime factor. For comparison, stainless steel has a conductivity of 3.5% and aluminum has a conductivity of 30%."

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Actually it's the other way around, TI is slightly better than SS. SS tends to be in the 2.5% range relative to copper:
http://eddy-current.com/conductivity-of-metals-sorted-by-resistivity/

That means SS will heat 24% more (in terms of power) under the same conditions. The point is neither is a good conductor. Even Aluminum is considered poor (and wiring codes therefore require much larger wires) and it's roughly ten times better than either SS or Ti? And yet the 3:1 change from Copper is an issue. In fact we make heaters from Ti and SS precisely because they are poor conductors (higher resistance).

The way to counter this is to make the conductors thicker (walls of the tube, makes the OD bigger, sales will hate it) and focus on the weakest part: the threads. In general high current density connections (what we have here) are never done relying on threads if there's a way to avoid it. Flashlights (running much lower current densities) have this as a known problem area for instance. Threads are best used to clamp the conducting parts. Otherwise, coarse threads, often with 'non standard profiles' and long thread lengths (to provide more contact area) are design advantages.

Here I think Ti being softer is a significant advantage, a larger percentage of the thread face is likely to make contact? We're also protected some since it tends to be 'self healing' to some extent in that the self heating from poor connection causes extra heat to build up making parts expand which can often improve the contact. The end result is it runs warm not hot?

Sounds like a potential weak link in the GH, but I'd expect it to happen more on SS for the above reasons. It's also likely to be random/progressive. That is it could come up a bit loose once in a while or wear in a way that improves or degrades contact.

Neither SS or Ti would be any engineers first choice of conductors, it makes the job tougher, but it can be handled I think.

OF

I'm assuming the top of all of them is clean steel, so the magnetic charger will grab it.

Mr. Me2 said:

I've also been following the MiVape thread here. That new convection Vape is just starting to roll out. And although it's just the 1st units getting to FCers, the failure rate seems MUCH higher than the gh. Funny that there isn't the same level of concern about the device or company on that thread... I wonder why?

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Seriously right? I'll go over to that thread and look, wondering if the people who did have failures go to try it first and if they had a positive response because it's seems those who did receive a GH so far fall into two camps 1. Those who love it, had a problem and also had a good customer service experience and 2. The overwhelming silent majority btw who have a GH that works great and they love it.

I keep mentioning that I've had to replace my Firefly two and I barely use my 3rd one now and I bought it well after a year after launch and its more than double the price. I also had to send back my pax and in th time since I got my GH I've already had to warranty my Apple Watch, all products that cost A LOT more with a LOT MORE CAPITAL backing them. It's technology people, sometimes it breaks but in the case of th GH, the truth is, whether you like it or not, GH's failure rate with two KNOWN and IDENTIFIED and CORRECTED problems still in at least MY experience is LOWER than much more expensive products from established investor backed companies so for those expecting Apple level failure rates from a crowd sourced startup, You Got It!

Madcap79 said:

Was the miVape crowd funded? That could be the difference?

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If it is then those people don't understand "crowd funding" or what used to be known as "subscriptions". From books to gadgets, even Thomas Jefferson wrote of his mixed results from subscriptions. Sometimes he got the product, sometimes years late, sometimes never, sometimes happy, sometimes disappointed. It's not crowd sourcing fault if someone doesn't like it. You can always wait for full launch, go to place you can try it in advance and decide if you want to buy it .... wait depending on where you live, you can't even do that with and Apple Watch!

If you expect multi-billion dollar international company experience from GH, forget about, there are not going to be GH company stores anytime soon. If you want to experience this revolutionary product, you need to take the risk now and wait, or take the risk later, pay more and wait less.

After my 2+ year wait for my subscription to arrive I say it was worth the wait way more than worth the price. If you want a product with a lower failure rate that isn't nearly as cool to use, pay a lot more for a pax2, so far it's the first vape I never had to return.

Joel W. said:

For those keeping score better than me, are there any known failures for the Ti hoppers out there or are they mostly stainless so far?

Not to my knowledge and th two known failures (temp sensor and hot collar) have been indentified and corrected so I suspect it's unlikely those two failures will show up Ti's

Also, is there any pattern where the failures (red and blue lights) have happened on higher heat settings or no?

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Yup!

First, let's start with what the purpose of the red/blue lights. It is a multi-purpose error light. One of the errors it indicates is if the heater has exceeded temparture allowance. When the lights are flashing, the heater is cycling off to reduce the temparture until it gets back to tolerance.

In my experience with a GH with a properly functioning temp sensor (the identified and corrected problem) I have never seen these lights but an instance where it might happen is for example on temp 5, long session out of a bubbler, in other words an very extreme instance. I have actually been trying to "overheat" it using it like that and I haven't been able to. However, if you see those lights, it MIGHT NOT be a problem.

If its funcintoning properly, first you should be real high because you must have been using it for AWHILE AND it should cycle black to blue and resume Vaping in seconds, not 5 seconds not 10, 1 maybe 2. Also if you keep drawing it should resume FASTER because that should be helping cool it.

If you get those,lights on your first hit of the day on temp 2, almost certainly something is wrong.

i'm willing to bet that all the backers and preorders would chill (and NOT cancel their preorders) if GL would officially tell us ANY of the above information that @slcbdco keeps regurgitating over, and over, and over.... or if they would come out and say that he is their official spokesperson/simple country lobbyist. (which i seriously doubt)
It's simply ridiculous that they tell us ZERO details, and this guy tells us ALL the details.
WTF is really going on?!

tubasco said:

i'm willing to bet that all the backers and preorders would chill (and NOT cancel their preorders) if GL would officially tell us ANY of the above information that @slcbdco keeps regurgitating over, and over, and over.... or if they would come out and say that he is their official spokesperson/simple country lobbyist. (which i seriously doubt)
It's simply ridiculous that they tell us ZERO details, and this guy tells us ALL the details.
WTF is really going on?!

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I know I would be much more content if they would be just slightly more open. The lack of information makes me feel like I'm being deceived. On the whole I don't think I actually am being lied to, but it's hard to not feel that way.

Kalessin said:

I know I would be much more content if they would be just slightly more open. The lack of information makes me feel like I'm being deceived. On the whole I don't think I actually am being lied to, but it's hard to not feel that way.

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right! i also don't think, on the whole, i'm being "lied" to, but it is all too obvious that this small company is doing all it can to secure more funds whilst not scaring people off with the TRUTH.
At this stage in the real development of this real product a little transparency would be lovely.

sundaddy said:

I'm assuming the top of all of them is clean steel, so the magnetic charger will grab it.

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Interesting question. For sure you don't want it magnetic I think since the power to charge will be magnetically coupled. Basically such schemes are usually transformers with the primary (driving) and secondary (driven) windings in each half. This means it's an AC deal, the current (and therefore magnetic fields) reversing many times a second. Definitely not the place or extra steel (or any other material that's 'ferro magnetic').

Since the parts are so small I'm betting it's not done at normal power line frequency but at higher (audio or superaudio?) If you can swap the magnetic field more often you can use smaller cores (before you 'run out of Iron' and can't further increase the field: called "saturation").

Ti would be a good non magnetic cover, as would many of the SS alloys (some are magnetic, some not). Better still would be a non conductor of electricity for a different set of reasons.

OF

tubasco said:

i'm willing to bet that all the backers and preorders would chill (and NOT cancel their preorders) if GL would officially tell us ANY of the above information that @slcbdco keeps regurgitating over, and over, and over.... or if they would come out and say that he is their official spokesperson/simple country lobbyist. (which i seriously doubt)
It's simply ridiculous that they tell us ZERO details, and this guy tells us ALL the details.
WTF is really going on?!

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Remember I how keep saying they are a TINY crowd funded company?

Did Firefly take the time to explain to me why my unit failed ... TWICE, no, nor did I ask because they are not my neighbor. I sent it back they sent me a new one, cool though, and I think this is the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE CONSUMER EXPERIENCE, since the GH kicks the FF's ass in everything that I care about, I don't really care if my FF still combusts when first time users use it because that doesn't happen anymore because I only use my GH and my friends only use my GH because it's better.

Do I regret buying the FF? No, it is cool, it's was a B-day present to myself and the money isn't a problem for me. If the price of a FF is problem for you, that it can sometimes combust even if it's "working properly" (I emailed them to see if I needed to send it back again, they instead emailed me with new packing and draw tehniques which to their CREDIT I haven't had combustion since but my friends have, it takes some technique) is a problem for you or that FF is not a BETTER device by any objective measure (taste, start up time, reliably (and yeah I know about how a GH can combust it has to do with that temp sensor failure) the I would recommend a GH

Does apple send people twice a month updates on why they had to warranty their Apple Watch? No of course not.

GH makes an amazing device on almost NO money. Anyone who thinks $350,000k is a lot to start a business doesn't understand economics. Let's say for starters that they aren't renting space in one of the most expensive cities in the country for one ...

They also happen to be my neighbors and because I am available for them to monitor for on going durability I get to learn things. They are also great guys not that it matters.

Do I love their product? Yup! Do I want them to succeed? YUP! Am I happy this awesome product calls my neighborhood home? YUP! That's why I am willing to give folks insight about actual questions. It isn't my obligation anymore than it's their's or Apple's.

I am happy to respond to legit questions and concerns because I want people to have knowledge.

That said I DO NOT WORK FOR GH. Go to my lobbying filing and find out for yourself. At $350,000k of startup capital, GH couldn't afford me if they wanted to.

I want to respectfully request that as being accused of a professional relationship I do NOT have could have REAL professional consequences for this simple country lobbyist that isn't exactly anonymous on here, see that stock photo of people smoking weed that is my profile? Yes its stock photo it's also ACTUALLY LITERRALY ME, so the speculation about me, I would ask about the company as well but that it now stop. It may come as a surprise to those who hate the GH or me but some people on this thread might actually find some of this information useful, I would hate to leave them in ignorance when their could be knowledge because a careless internet thread winds me up with an ethics complaint. I mean some of you may also hate lobbyist and like that but then I ask you how exactly do you suppose cannabis got legal and more importantly stays legal where it is or will become legal in other places? Oompah Loomphas? Unicorns? Magic?

Well there is a little magic and a little luck but mostly lucky lawyers and lobbyist who are good at political magic.

If you don't want my information I'm also happy to stop posting but if folks here are more interested in denigrating people they don't know, a company they don't know, a product they don't know and those that report on their experience which they don't know with no evidence apart from their own pre/misconceptions about economics and technology.

If you don't want a GH, don't buy one. If you have a negative experience with a GH share it, if you have a positive experience, share it. If you have tips for other users, share it. Isn't that what this thread is supposed to be about? I enjoy speculation nosedives as much as the next politico don't get me wrong but honestly people isn't actual information from actual users supposed to be the point of user forums? Since when is a manufacturer obliged to answer every thread.

If it's just inpatience behind the irrational tangents on this thread, wouldn't you prefer these guys were working! (which they do by the way to all hours, there's lights are on when I'm stumbling home from the bar)

Also FWIW I'm closing in on week 4 with my GH (post temp sensor replacement) and it's been working great (and yes they replaced the backend but that was because they wanted to and the unit had NOT failed) they just indentied that backend being in the bad batch and symptomatic so it was precautionary.

Apple? Why do you keep bringing up Apple? Apple is a time-tested brand... they don't crowdsource funding for their new releases... and they DO have shareholder meetings, where investors are told about the bottom line. I am a backer. When's the next Grasshopper backers' meeting?

I appreciate any updates from actual users.

OF said:

Interesting question. For sure you don't want it magnetic I think since the power to charge will be magnetically coupled. Basically such schemes are usually transformers with the primary (driving) and secondary (driven) windings in each half. This means it's an AC deal, the current (and therefore magnetic fields) reversing many times a second. Definitely not the place or extra steel (or any other material that's 'ferro magnetic').

Since the parts are so small I'm betting it's not done at normal power line frequency but at higher (audio or superaudio?) If you can swap the magnetic field more often you can use smaller cores (before you 'run out of Iron' and can't further increase the field: called "saturation").

Ti would be a good non magnetic cover, as would many of the SS alloys (some are magnetic, some not). Better still would be a non conductor of electricity for a different set of reasons.

OF

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Can we get you to do some consulting for GH Labs? Alternately, would you design a vape for FC?

tubasco said:

Apple? Why do you keep bringing up Apple? Apple is a time-tested brand... they don't crowdsource funding for their new releases... and they DO have shareholder meetings, where investors are told about the bottom line. I am a backer. When's the next Grasshopper backers' meeting?

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First I keep bringing up Apple to highlight people's out of proportion expectations in the sense that since I've had my (backer, $100) GH fail once my Apple watch ($350) also failed.

And as you say, "backer" not a stockholder, i.e. no obligation to even deliver a product whatsoever let alone tell you anything about it.

A backer/subscriber and an investor are NOT the same. Not in the law, not in economics.

I'm not trying to say "you're lucky you're getting anything at all". I am saying that a crowd funded company has no obligation to deliver, just the same as if you buy Apple stock they have no obligation that YOU make money. That's called risk. With stock your compensated for your risk with money if it works and you just lose your money if it doesn't. With a "backer" you're reward is you get the product cheaper/faster if it all works out, if it doesn't you just lose your money.

Pre-orders are different. Their IS an obligation to deliver to you (the product or some portion of your money) your benefit is you get it cheaper/faster but not as cheaper/faster as a backer because they have greater risk.


As I've said before, inpatience? I get it, my impatience cost me $300 for a FF I never use and a pax2 I rarely used scratching my GH itch after waiting

But for pre-orderers waiting is what your discount is for! I understand it might be longer than you wanted, I can tell you after 2 years waiting a few months is totally worth it because this vape is amazing.

And for Backers, you made a bet on something you thought was cool 2 years ago. If you wasted your last $99 that was a mistake. But I doubt anyone did that. What I suspect is that some people didn't understand the economic model. That's not GH, IG or crowd sourcing's fault. I for one support the crowd sourcing model, granted this is the first one that I've backed although I have backed others yet to materialize, I just think the way capital markets work now crowdsourcing is such a great way to bring novel products to market and by the way the model isn't novel, it's been around for centuries. I think the resurgence is indicative of the problem with capital access these days but there is nothing new here, crowd funding is as old as caveat emptor ...


And it also applies here.

syrupy said:

Can we get you to do some consulting for GH Labs? Alternately, would you design a vape for FC?

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They're kinda far way.....and they make that call anyway. But there's nothing special here, really, lots of guys do this sort of stuff every day........although I agree few seem to hang around here. I'm sure GH can get all the support they want close to home.

A FC designed vape could be fun, but this is definitely not the place to discuss it. Pipes should be in on the conspiracy for sure.........

Thanks for the kind thought. Glad I can help/add some insight from time to time.

OF

Good to get "sage" advice.

sundaddy said:

Muwhaaaaaaa, yes!

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For tomorrow, I plan to shrink my avitar pic by 10% while using a smaller and smaller font over the next week making you all think you are getting larger in size! Muaaahhhh haaa haaa...

Go grasshoppers!!!

I predict once the GH arrives that big eye will be a nice shade of red.

sundaddy said:

I predict once the GH arrives that big eye will be a nice shade of red.

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From the way that post read I thought the GH was already there! I know exactly that type of GH inspired misadventure! :-)

mitchgo61 said:

I agree...you'd be amazed at the situations in which I have received refunds.

It's also worth remembering that the major credit card companies frown on their vendors charging a customer prior to shipping the purchased item...Visa specifically forbids their merchants from charging you before shipping. (It's not illegal, and it happens, but if you have an issue, Visa will refund your money, and possibly take action against the vendor.)

While I don't really think anyone deserves to lose money, no one should stand by and get ripped off. Use of a credit card, or PayPal, is highly protective, and a teeny bit of aggression on our part with the credit card companies always yields results. No one has ever gotten away with ripping me off, for long, so far....(if that isn't a jinxy thing to say...)

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I wish you continued luck on that bubba. No one ever deserves to lose money I agree. I so far haven't been ripped off but I also stay very productive and on top of all online transactions. I especially watch for hidden or unexplained charges and charges not made by me.

I don't know much about Hopper Labs but I'm pretty sure they are quick handle any type of refund or fix the problem in a timely manner from the stuff I've read about the GH.

sundaddy said:

Good to get "sage" advice.

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Sage advice? You want our very own Vitolo......"Sage of the High Desert".

OF

smutman said:

I wish you continued luck on that bubba. No one ever deserves to lose money I agree. I so far haven't been ripped off but I also stay very productive and on top of all online transactions. I especially watch for hidden or unexplained charges and charges not made by me.

I don't know much about Hopper Labs but I'm pretty sure they are quick handle any type of refund or fix the problem in a timely manner from the stuff I've read about the GH.

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I remember reading here of some who cancelled and reached out to GHL for a refund. And if I remember right, they promptly received a refund. So at least so far, I think it's a non-issue.

I actually cancelled my preorder just a couple days ago, because I decided that the Zion was a device that fits what I'm looking for a bit more, and I received a refund from Hopper Labs within a day of sending Trevor the email. I wouldn't worry about losing your money if you decide you don't want to deal with the uncertainty/wait anymore. The only thing I could imagine causing problems in that respect is if there's some sort of catastrophe with the Hoppers that causes everyone to ask for refunds at once, in which case they probably wouldn't have enough money to refund everyone. I don't expect that anyone is going to get ripped off.

OF said:

Sage advice? You want our very own Vitolo......"Sage of the High Desert".

OF

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Ah, I used to talk to Vito a few years back about the VG and MFLB, cool guy. Haven't seen him in the GH thread, hope He's still doing good.

sundaddy said:

Ah, I used to talk to Vito a few years back about the VG and MFLB, cool guy. Haven't seen him in the GH thread, hope He's still doing good.

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That would be him. He doesn't hang around here, you'll have to go to him. True enlightenment is like that......

He had a recent run in with the heat in one of life's big injustices. Crushing, but true to form last I heard he was getting back on top. The world needs more like him for sure.

OF

So I tried the MiVape "wax cloth" in the GH with a little oil and it works great, even on level 4, so I imagine level 5 would be even better! The wax cloth appears to be a regular "cheese cloth" cut into 1 inch squares so if you have any of that around, give it a try. SO easy and effective but I hope we can improve on this temporary concentrate adapter while we wait for the real deal to roll out. I will continue my tests and post the results