Single Hit/Full Extraction Vaporizers

Throwing this out to those with a more diverse knowledge in multiple vaporizers...

Sublimator:
I'm currently reading through the Sublimator thread, but wondering if anyone knows of any other vaporizers that are capable of full extraction from a single draw/hit. Also, of the quantity of herb used in that single session. So, those of you with Subs, for a single session, what's the amount of herb you're using?

Other:
Also looking for the desired criteria behind such a unit, even if that unit does not exist yet... How would you like it to hit? How would you use it?

Thoughts:
I'm picturing a single load from .03 - .05 grams. (I know this is a bit on the conservative side.) Temp somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe 185c, maybe less, if lighter/uplifting effects are sought... maybe 220-230c if heavier/sedative effects are the target. Single draw and the bowl gets spent. Further draws do not extract further vapor, or at least nothing discernible.

Impossible is simply a challenge not yet met...

Thanks!

Hammer I can easily do .03 in on hit, hooked up to water and running warm! Potential for second hit depending on how I go the first time around, but not much. I was never one for giant bong rips, I love them and seek them but can not perform them as well as others... I'd imagine in more capable hands it wouldn't be a challenge.

DDave said:

Throwing this out to those with a more diverse knowledge in multiple vaporizers...

Sublimator:
I'm currently reading through the Sublimator thread, but wondering if anyone knows of any other vaporizers that are capable of full extraction from a single draw/hit. Also, of the quantity of herb used in that single session. So, those of you with Subs, for a single session, what's the amount of herb you're using?

Other:
Also looking for the desired criteria behind such a unit, even if that unit does not exist yet... How would you like it to hit? How would you use it?

Thoughts:
I'm picturing a single load from .03 - .05 grams. (I know this is a bit on the conservative side.) Temp somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe 185c, maybe less, if lighter/uplifting effects are sought... maybe 220-230c if heavier/sedative effects are the target. Single draw and the bowl gets spent. Further draws do not extract further vapor, or at least nothing discernible.

Impossible is simply a challenge not yet met...

Thanks!

Click to expand...

This is a really relevant thread for many of us, thanks for creating it man!

I have found so far that the sub is the only vape that gives one-hit extraction in the way you describe. Whilst there are a great many other good vaporizers out there, sadly the sub is the only one I've found will give reliable, satisfying one-hit extraction in this way.

I would also love to know if anyone has found another vape that can do this too

@Tommy10 Thanks for the info on the hammer. When you try .03 in a single hit, what are your session parameters? Grind type? Temp (approx is cool). And this is subjective, but off a .03 single hit hammer session, how's the effects?

@herbivore21 No prob. It's something I've been thinking about for some time. If you have Sublimator experience, same questions. What type of grind works best? Does it introduce much restriction to the draw? How much herb in your one hit sessions? I see the Sub goes by voltage, not temp. Have you seen any data on voltage vs. Temp? (would be awesome to know that this voltage equals approx this temp)

DDave said:

@Tommy10 Thanks for the info on the hammer. When you try .03 in a single hit, what are your session parameters? Grind type? Temp (approx is cool). And this is subjective, but off a .03 single hit hammer session, how's the effects?

@herbivore21 No prob. It's something I've been thinking about for some time. If you have Sublimator experience, same questions. What type of grind works best? Does it introduce much restriction to the draw? How much herb in your one hit sessions? I see the Sub goes by voltage, not temp. Have you seen any data on voltage vs. Temp? (would be awesome to know that this voltage equals approx this temp)

Click to expand...

Actually, the sub only gets measured by wattage (which actually represents the voltage multiplied by the current, not just the voltage) if somebody attaches a third party device.

The only voltages used by the sub is 36v DC for the XLR 2.0 and 120v AC for the OG units.

The only 'measure' of temp given is by a series of numbers around a rotary dimmer from 1-12. I found that 5-8 were best temps for flowers. You would get whitewalling huge hits with any of these temps on flowers. I honestly can't remember how much material I used to use per bowl, but probably just under .1 or so with flowers.

I never used any equipment to measure the wattage output on my sub, so couldn't report on this.

What I can say is that there seems to be quite some variation in the best temp on the dial to vape with between different sublimator units. I have used 3 different ones myself.

DDave said:

Throwing this out to those with a more diverse knowledge in multiple vaporizers...

Sublimator:
I'm currently reading through the Sublimator thread, but wondering if anyone knows of any other vaporizers that are capable of full extraction from a single draw/hit. Also, of the quantity of herb used in that single session. So, those of you with Subs, for a single session, what's the amount of herb you're using?

Other:
Also looking for the desired criteria behind such a unit, even if that unit does not exist yet... How would you like it to hit? How would you use it?

Thoughts:
I'm picturing a single load from .03 - .05 grams. (I know this is a bit on the conservative side.) Temp somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe 185c, maybe less, if lighter/uplifting effects are sought... maybe 220-230c if heavier/sedative effects are the target. Single draw and the bowl gets spent. Further draws do not extract further vapor, or at least nothing discernible.

Impossible is simply a challenge not yet met...

Thanks!

Click to expand...

With my limited experience I would put the LSV second behind the sub..

I became intrigued with the micro loader trend while visiting log land.
I am currently experimenting in the 12/20mg load size.
As for grind I find the smaller the amount the finer the grind required to get that one hit extraction.
Once you get to loads this small it is hard to white wall if thats what your after. The hits will be hard but whispy.
No matter what unit you choose there is the learning curve that will allow you to walk the fine line between extraction and combustion.

herbivore21 said:

Actually, the sub only gets measured by wattage (which actually represents the voltage multiplied by the current, not just the voltage) if somebody attaches a third party device.

The only voltages used by the sub is 36v DC for the XLR 2.0 and 120v AC for the OG units.

The only 'measure' of temp given is by a series of numbers around a rotary dimmer from 1-12. I found that 5-8 were best temps for flowers. You would get whitewalling huge hits with any of these temps on flowers. I honestly can't remember how much material I used to use per bowl, but probably just under .1 or so with flowers.

I never used any equipment to measure the wattage output on my sub, so couldn't report on this.

What I can say is that there seems to be quite some variation in the best temp on the dial to vape with between different sublimator units. I have used 3 different ones myself.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Good info!

Do you recall draw restriction? Am getting through the Subliminator thread itself, it's gonna take me some time though..

I can get a 1-2 hit extraction off of my underdog (with a VVPS running on the verge of combustion) using the SS tip that goes on the inner diameter of the core. Idk the exact weight of the load but they are micro sized.

Probably not what you're looking for but it works like a charm for me.

@4tokin Thanks. So LSV skating combustion temps with fine grind and approx. .02g can do a complete extraction. I have very limited knowledge of the LSV. This I need to research further.

@NickDlow thanks for chiming in about the underdog. I've got no experience with logs, so am going to have to look into this too. I got the small batch and high temps part of your post... how about grind?

DDave said:

@4tokin Thanks. So LSV skating combustion temps with fine grind and approx. .02g can do a complete extraction. I have very limited knowledge of the LSV. This I need to research further.

@NickDlow thanks for chiming in about the underdog. I've got no experience with logs, so am going to have to look into this too. I got the small batch and high temps part of your post... how about grind?

Click to expand...

To get that sort of performance I use a small EQ screen in a 18/18 male adaptor. That way you can get the load as close to the heater as possible.

DDave said:

@4tokin Thanks. So LSV skating combustion temps with fine grind and approx. .02g can do a complete extraction. I have very limited knowledge of the LSV. This I need to research further.

@NickDlow thanks for chiming in about the underdog. I've got no experience with logs, so am going to have to look into this too. I got the small batch and high temps part of your post... how about grind?

Click to expand...

Idk what you'd consider it cuz it's the same find I use with everything. But it's a 4pc spacecase if that helps. It's the same grinder I've been using for years.

If ur not in the USA I thing u need some type of step down or whatever is required across the pond. Also they vary in temp and there is no control of it out of box. I have 2 Dogs out of 8 or 9, I think that don't need a VVPS to that brink of combustion temp. So if u want total control you'll need a VVPS in addition to an underdog.

Like the whole premise behind the question. Essentially the idea of being able to dial in the desired effects, I get. How about the volume of air that would be passing through to be counted as single rip. This would have to be a full draw to work. Right? As for desired hitting for a single draw, I'm guessing it would by nesssecity and also desirable to have an open throat/wide draw to clear all that vapor. At 185C I'd like it to be like warm tea or droplet taste. The minty-er side of the spectrum. No need to use water attachments. But you would have to 'clear' it.

Still can't figure if there is actual science behind the Sublimator or if it is simply a heat gun with lots of attachments. Does this unit actually heat that precisely at your desired 185c?
Some units heat at higher temps and filter it in some manner. Which distorts the matter further. But then again I recently read that Canada is allow this to be used as a medical device.

As far as the whole single hit/full extraction question. I do think there is a threshold as to what can extracted witin a certain amount of air volume/draw volume. I'm also guessing how quickly the heat is ramped up to that desired temp of 185 - 230 range is the biggest hurdle to meet all 3 of your criteria. Sorry Sublimator, still a skeptic to some of your claims of being a 'bio-molecular gasifying device'. Until I get to try you out, anyway...

As far my current candidates:
My Summit in 2 draws on setting 5 or 6 is half way there. 2 full draws at a somewhat higher temp. Lower temps need further study.
Beginner's luck with other setups. But I do use 185C and 200C as baselines to get the lower end vapor. Sorry had to count that one for accuracy's sake.

My current setup with my EQ is getting pretty close to the mark. Coincidentally 185C is what I've honed in for a first time vapor extraction. I can take a sip and watch the glass fog up briefly. Then take a full rip. The ABV seems to extract to an even golden color. Reuse it at 200C, then it's an even mocha colored. So that might be an indication that I have a good preheated oven.

Now, If I start at fresh elbow pack at 210C, It is fully cached, then I need to take out the screen after the rip to avoid that screen/popcorn kernel taste. Does that count as a full extraction? Anyone care to clarify? I don't believe you can technically fully cache at a low temp, but you can get the maximum desired 'effect' extracted and consider it in that context to be 'cached'.
Then raise the temp and extract the next range till that is considered finished. This is why the proof is in the ABV for me.

As to why my current setup works as well as it does? I'm guessing it's mostly because there is a lot heated glass and hot air being placed above the elbow pack. And then I place all that preheated vapeware into the EQ. Sometimes, I even dial in my temp and run the fan to preheat the glass, to be even that much more consistent. Ramp time is like 1 second for this setup too. Pack,rip,empty. Nearly all glass too.

I too have been on a quest for that one perfect hit, vaporizing under 0.10 g in a single draw. My results so far: Lotus, with about 1/2 bowlful; LSV with an 18mm M2M adapter; the HI with the cork on glass WPA, about half full, through a small bubbler; UD with the glass WPA half full; VXL cloud, bowl 1/4 full. All of these chambers easily accommodate loads small enough for 1 great hit.

DDave said:

@Tommy10 Thanks for the info on the hammer. When you try .03 in a single hit, what are your session parameters? Grind type? Temp (approx is cool). And this is subjective, but off a .03 single hit hammer session, how's the effects?

@herbivore21 No prob. It's something I've been thinking about for some time. If you have Sublimator experience, same questions. What type of grind works best? Does it introduce much restriction to the draw? How much herb in your one hit sessions? I see the Sub goes by voltage, not temp. Have you seen any data on voltage vs. Temp? (would be awesome to know that this voltage equals approx this temp)

Click to expand...

Medium grind, bit more than shredded but not fine. Temp I dunno, very close to combustion 420f+ I'd imagine. Effect I don't know, I can have upwards of 10 of these over a couple of hour stretch but that's just personal preference and tollerance and I guess the best reference I can give is out of my vapes (solo VG and hammer) I feel the most medicated from the hammer, and the other two still get me sufficiently medicated.
For me personally I enjoy extracting all of it in one big rip, but it certainly does cause me to consume much more than needed.

Vapexhale Cloud also does a pretty great job at one hit extractions when loading 0.10g

I would love a vapexhale cloud evo but this scares me! Seems like it would be far to easy to rip out giant cloud after giant cloud with ease. Hammer being a pain in the ass slows it down a bit. Someone in the grasshopper thread was talking about it's ability to do tiny pinches and extract quickly, don't remember weights if there were any. My VG easily takes small loud but I'm yet to do even a tiny load (just covering the screen) in one go. Surely some of the other butane powered vapes would be up to the task?

For getting full extraction in one run the most success I have had is with the LSV with a small load sandwiched between two screens in the bottom of the glass cooker. If run too cool it turns into a multiple hit situation, if run too hot there is combustion but in the middle of those extremes is a near charred state where the load is almost cooked out. However I don't care for it because I miss the being able to savour the taste of the bud and I need to be really focused on the draw rate to pull it off. However that is one of the joys of a good vape adaptability when needed. Enjoy

I made a vape to do this. I heat 400+ beads inside lab glass with a heater encased in glass. The beads gives more heated surface area than a straight tube. I've never done a side by side with the sub. I can tell you that a pid controller is superior to a dimmer; It is easier on the heater and allows for faster recovery from a hit and heat-up time from OFF.

I normally hit about .1 gram. Because there is so much reserve heat I can't use more than .3, it is not pleasant.

I have tried hitting my vape with various amounts of beads and the more I use the more flavor I get. It is at a point now where almost all of the flavor is extracted on the first hit. The second and third hits are much less cloudy and flavorful...kinda boring. I use a flat screen that is about 20mm wide to extract herb.

There is a down side to this method of extraction. If you love many flavorful hits, you would probably want a weaker vape. If you hate changing bowls after 3 hits you probably want a weaker vape.

The advantage is that I can hit it as fast as I like and get higher with less.

4tokin said:

No matter what unit you choose there is the learning curve that will allow you to walk the fine line between extraction and combustion.

Click to expand...

This ^^^^. I've never tried the Sublimator, but I wouldn't want a hit bigger than my LSV/SSV gives me.

Just about any desktop vape has enough power to finish a smaller load in one hit, the issue is finding the proper bowl to accomplish this. I've came to the conclusion that to easily vape a small load you need to reduce the bowl's diameter.

If you could still get the Versa Infinity, it would be perfect for this. Load up 0.07-0.05g and let it rip. One big cloud later and you lol be feeling fine. Since it's not available for purchase, I would cast a second vote for the Underdog w/VVPS. Tiny amounts, good vapor and effects. Good luck!

Seems LSV has received most feedback in this thread... using fine grind. Also using EQ screen mod & 18mm adapter to get herbs close to heater.

Others mentioned:
Hammer w/.03g load.
Sublimator w/dimmer set 5-8., approx .1g load.
Underdog w/SS tip. Small load. Needs VVPS for better control of heat.
Lotus using 1/2 bowl full of herbs.
HI with cork on glass WPA, 1/2 full, through small bubbler.
VXL Cloud using 1/4 bowl full of herbs. Or .1g of herbs in another report.
VG and other butane powered vapes.
Versa Infinity using .05-.07g load.
jojo monkey's custom vape using glass beads to increase heat retention/surface.

All good info, thanks! I have much reading to do now!

Sorry for the back to back post, but have a completely different sub-topic for this discussion....

For the above listed vapes, how much draw restriction during your single hit total extraction sessions?

Is draw restriction acceptable if full extraction or large effects from small loads can be achieved?

I can do this with my Nano or my Lotus. Just need to take a deep breath.
There is minimal restriction with either and I do a full chamber, loosely packed.

DDave said:

Throwing this out to those with a more diverse knowledge in multiple vaporizers... (Abbreviated)
Thoughts:
I'm picturing a single load from .03 - .05 grams. (I know this is a bit on the conservative side.) Temp somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe 185c, maybe less, if lighter/uplifting effects are sought... maybe 220-230c if heavier/sedative effects are the target. Single draw and the bowl gets spent. Further draws do not extract further vapor, or at least nothing discernible.

Impossible is simply a challenge not yet met...
Thanks!

Click to expand...

Already a good pool of responses. Figured any of the vapes that had more of a straight heating path would be candidates for one hit wonders.

I guess that I got more out of the precision temp control part of OP question than others. It reminds me more of this cheat sheet here while others commented more on the full extraction side of the question. And kinda what I was rambling on about in my previous post. With a really efficient setup you should be able to 'dial in' the effects more. And perhaps re-use it at the higher temp and then get the next tier of effects. Also why I was mentioning the ABV as being an indicator of this working.

My EQ mod allow me to keep the heat even, like a well preheated oven. before I place the pack in. Allowing me to be more precise and to dial in the effects. With a smaller amount I can rip with a more consistent temp effect and extraction.

To get the one hit wonder extraction/effect is a whole different matter. And some of you seem to touch upon the whole threshold thing I was questioning earlier too. TX

DDave said:

Sorry for the back to back post, but have a completely different sub-topic for this discussion....

For the above listed vapes, how much draw restriction during your single hit total extraction sessions?

Is draw restriction acceptable if full extraction or large effects from small loads can be achieved?

Click to expand...

Logs like the UD and HI have some restriction compared to the Lotus, LSV or Cloud, but full extraction in 1 rip is possible either way with a small bowl and a reasonably small amount of herb. You can even achieve it with a standard ssv using the VB miniwand.