Sandra Bland's Arrest and Later Suicide?

Was the Sandra Bland traffic stop legal -- and fair?
By Danny Cevallos, CNN Legal Analyst

Updated 10:17 AM ET, Thu July 23, 2015

Lanitra Dean hugs Bland's friend Carlesha Harrison during the Prairie View vigil on July 19. Bland had been arrested by the Texas Department of Public Safety, which said she became "argumentative and uncooperative" during a traffic stop.

The Revs. James Miller and Lana Parks Miller lead a prayer walk remembering Bland in Lisle, Illinois, on July 19. Bland lived in the Chicago suburb of Naperville, Illinois. Her family questions that she would commit suicide. Sharon Cooper, one of Bland's sisters, said the idea of her sister committing suicide is "unfathomable" to her.

Quanell X, leader of the New Black Panther Party, holds a plastic bag while speaking at a rally at the Waller County Courthouse in Hempstead, Texas, on Friday, July 17. Authorities said there were no cameras in Bland's jail cell to show that she hanged herself, but cameras in the hallway show no one entering or leaving the cell before her body was discovered.


I thought Sandra deserved her own thread. I have troubles posting videos with my iPad . Could someone post the video while the police officer was ticketing her than later arrested Sandra? The police officer was way out of line with his issue about her smoking and refusing to put her cigarette out.
I needed an apostrophe between the "d and s" on the thread title in her name, it's bugging me. I can't fix it.
CK

CarolKing said:

I have troubles posting videos with my iPad . Could someone post the video while the police officer was ticketing her than later arrested Sandra? The police officer was way out of line with his issue about her smoking and refusing to put her cigarette out.
I needed an apostrophe between the "d and s" on the thread title in her name, it's bugging me. I can't fix it.

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Is this the right one?

I personally would have put my cig out and took the warning. When a cop tells you to do something, just fucking do it. It's that simple.

She absolutely deserved to be arrested for acting like that. As far as losing her life that's a tragedy.

The officer could have written her a ticket and been on his way. She was rude to the officer, I personally would not have acted like that. He didn't deescalate the problem he made the matter worse and so did she but he's the professional.

That's just my opinion.

After she committed suicide an autopsy was made and its reported that she had marijuana in her system which is a non issue.

EDIT
He should have ignored the cigarette and could have stepped aside to write out the ticket. He didn't need to in gage with her and her rude behavior. I'm not sure if it was stated how long this officer has been doing his job? He acted very inexperienced IMO.

CarolKing said:

After she committed suicide an autopsy was made and its reported that she had marijuana in her system which is a non issue.

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But the msm will make it an issue anyways, they always do that shit to people of color. The stop itself, although she was hassled and illegally profiled in the first place (even in texas) isn't the main issue here. The title of the article in the op is employing a bit of mis-direction imo, as these questions are largely a judgement call. What we need to know is whether or not she took her own life in that jail cell, and wtf happened to her in there for three days while she was still alive. Has the full autopsy report been released, or did they just "leak" the mj part to smear her? Because a full autopsy is obviously needed here.

Cop seems inexperienced, I will agree with that.

I admittedly haven't done much research into this, as it's not something that overly concerns me and not something I see controversy with. It's a shame she took her life in jail, but this seems like the sensationalism of something that doesn't need it.

She was pulled over for failing to signal, at least that's what's being said. That's a legitimate reason to pull her over.

And, she did not comply with the officer. The officer told her to put out her smoke, the ball is now in her court, if she want's to comply and make everything relatively easy, or if she wants to escalate it. She escalated it. There is absolutely no justification as to why she should be allowed to keep smoking, if he asks her to put it out, she needs to put it out. What if she has a gun, decides to take a big drag, exhale it in the cops eyes and while they are stinging, she goes for her gun? Yeah, that sounds ridiculous, but maybe he's being extra careful and maybe he is inexperienced as you said. I've been pulled over with smokes and have had cops tell me to put them out, and some of them not care. Point is, it's their call, and I always put it out if I was asked. A surefire way to escalate the situation would be to not comply with the officer.....this guy is doing his job, she is being difficult.

That's what I gathered from the 15 minutes I watched. It's a shame that a life was lost, but I don't think this has any implications on law enforcement or our justice system. I sense a woman who was in a stressful situation who acted irrationally/impulsively as a result of that stress (in regards to her suicide, hell maybe even in regards to her arrest)

All of this is in my opinion, but I do think that the media is sensationalizing this, much like everything of this nature....

I hadn't seen anything about racial profiling, so I don't know the context of her arrest in regards to that, but in general I think racial profiling is....usually justified. At risk of sounding racist, the reason racial profiling works, is because of race/culture/population of an area. If there is a younger colored guy, driving around where my grandparents live (a gated retirement community, predominantly white from the people I saw), he looks out of place. That, is racial profiling. He also, looks out of place, and isn't the point of the police to make sure things are not out of place?

IE: Statistics. It's not like these "profiles" just came up overnight with no basis, else why would they exist at all?

Racial profiling is racist. Supporting it is racist. By definition.

That is in response to the above post. There is no way of sugar coating it. You could say it "works" (which I believe is based on very weak evidence); that doesn't stop it from being racist.

If you think I'm a risk on an airplane because I'm Muslim you're bigoted. You don't see them singling out people with known mental conditions for "random searches". Why single out middle Easterners for those searches, when statistically you're much more likely to do something crazy when you have a history of mental illness than when you're Muslim. Oh I know, racism and bigotry.

I won't comment on the autopsy, because at this point it's still being investigated.

EDIT: and to the above poster: using "colored" to describe African American is incredibly outdated and is considered racist language. Also you say these "profiles" didn't come overnight? No they didn't, they exist because of centuries of institutionalized racism. Don't forget the reason for the large African American population in this country: they're not here cause they wanted to chase the American dream. They were brought here in shackles.

HellsWindStaff said:

There is absolutely no justification as to why she should be allowed to keep smoking, if he asks her to put it out, she needs to put it out.

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No justification she Should be ALLOWED to keep smoking? Are you fucking kidding around or what?

I can Damn sure smoke a cigarette in my own car no matter what. There is no justification for a cop or anyone else to think they can get in my space and tell me I can't smoke a cigarette as they are totally legal.

I'm pretty sure I would have told the cop to Fuck off if he pulled me over then told me to put out my cigarette when HE was the one who walked up to MY car window. Whats Next? Spit out your gum or go to jail?

Smoking Cigs is Still legal last I checked, This cop was just a fucking prick.

NickDlow said:

I personally would have put my cig out and took the warning. When a cop tells you to do something, just fucking do it. It's that simple.

She absolutely deserved to be arrested for acting like that. As far as losing her life that's a tragedy.

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There's one big difference, the State Trooper is a PROFESSIONAL, he's supposed to act like one. It's his job to handle the situation correctly. She was upset, it happens. It does not give him the right to respond like he did. He escalated the situation several times.

HellsWindStaff said:

Cop seems inexperienced, I will agree with that.

I admittedly haven't done much research into this, as it's not something that overly concerns me and not something I see controversy with. It's a shame she took her life in jail, but this seems like the sensationalism of something that doesn't need it.

She was pulled over for failing to signal, at least that's what's being said. That's a legitimate reason to pull her over.

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Correct, it is a legitimate reason to pull someone over. It's a legitimate reason to give someone a ticket. She was upset about how it happened, but that part doesn't really matter, she was technically in the wrong.

And, she did not comply with the officer. The officer told her to put out her smoke, the ball is now in her
court, if she want's to comply and make everything relatively easy, or if she wants to escalate it. She escalated it. There is absolutely no justification as to why she should be allowed to keep smoking, if he asks her to put it out, she needs to put it out. What if she has a gun, decides to take a big drag, exhale it in the cops eyes and while they are stinging, she goes for her gun? Yeah, that sounds ridiculous, but maybe he's being extra careful and maybe he is inexperienced as you said. I've been pulled over with smokes and have had cops tell me to put them out, and some of them not care. Point is, it's their call, and I always put it out if I was asked. A surefire way to escalate the situation would be to not comply with the officer.....this guy is doing his job, she is being difficult.

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This is where we begin to differ. She does NOT have to extinguish her cigarette, that is not a law. The only reason the Trooper asked her that, was to attempt to reestablish his dominance in the situation.

It was the Trooper who continued the escalation of the incident. He asked her if she was upset. She said yes and told him why. He then responds with a sarcastic, "Are you done?" That is not how a professional handles the situation. He behaves like a child and keeps escalating the situation at every turn.

The Trooper does not have the right to demand for her to get out of the car either. There was no lawful reason that he had in order to demand that.

Then, when the other officer approaches, he tells the female officer, "She just pulled away from me, so I put her on the ground". What he fails to mention is how he unlawfully forcefully removed her from her vehicle. That's a pretty large point in my opinion.

Let's talk about his threat with the Tazer. That was against training as well. You do not point it at someone's face and shout, "I'M GONNA LIGHT YOU UP!"


Sandra had accepted she was getting a ticket, and was upset about that. There is nothing illegal with that. It's not the law that you have to have sunny disposition when dealing with law enforcement. Does it help get you out of some situations? Absolutely, but the punishment for not shouldn't be a threat with a Tazer.

All of this is in my opinion, but I do think that the media is sensationalizing this, much like everything of this nature....

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I don't believe it's being sensationalized at all, it's just finally beginning to get the coverage it has deserved for so long.

I hadn't seen anything about racial profiling, so I don't know the context of her arrest in regards to that, but in general I think racial profiling is....usually justified. At risk of sounding racist, the reason racial profiling works, is because of race/culture/population of an area. If there is a younger colored guy, driving around where my grandparents live (a gated retirement community, predominantly white from the people I saw), he looks out of place. That, is racial profiling. He also, looks out of place, and isn't the point of the police to make sure things are not out of place?

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Racial profiling is racist. No matter how it's attempted to be justified, it's racist.

HellsWindStaff said:

What if she has a gun, decides to take a big drag, exhale it in the cops eyes and while they are stinging, she goes for her gun? Yeah, that sounds ridiculous, but maybe he's being extra careful and maybe he is inexperienced as you said

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She could have been sipping on hot coffee too. That can burn someone, what pour it out? Before she throws it on the cop to escape?
Leave what ifs out. Too much error.


I want to add so much more, but @Roth has touched on most of my points.

HellsWindStaff said:

Cop seems inexperienced, I will agree with that.

I admittedly haven't done much research into this, as it's not something that overly concerns me and not something I see controversy with. It's a shame she took her life in jail, but this seems like the sensationalism of something that doesn't need it.

She was pulled over for failing to signal, at least that's what's being said. That's a legitimate reason to pull her over.

And, she did not comply with the officer. The officer told her to put out her smoke, the ball is now in her court, if she want's to comply and make everything relatively easy, or if she wants to escalate it. She escalated it. There is absolutely no justification as to why she should be allowed to keep smoking, if he asks her to put it out, she needs to put it out. What if she has a gun, decides to take a big drag, exhale it in the cops eyes and while they are stinging, she goes for her gun? Yeah, that sounds ridiculous, but maybe he's being extra careful and maybe he is inexperienced as you said. I've been pulled over with smokes and have had cops tell me to put them out, and some of them not care. Point is, it's their call, and I always put it out if I was asked. A surefire way to escalate the situation would be to not comply with the officer.....this guy is doing his job, she is being difficult.

That's what I gathered from the 15 minutes I watched. It's a shame that a life was lost, but I don't think this has any implications on law enforcement or our justice system. I sense a woman who was in a stressful situation who acted irrationally/impulsively as a result of that stress (in regards to her suicide, hell maybe even in regards to her arrest)

All of this is in my opinion, but I do think that the media is sensationalizing this, much like everything of this nature....

I hadn't seen anything about racial profiling, so I don't know the context of her arrest in regards to that, but in general I think racial profiling is....usually justified. At risk of sounding racist, the reason racial profiling works, is because of race/culture/population of an area. If there is a younger colored guy, driving around where my grandparents live (a gated retirement community, predominantly white from the people I saw), he looks out of place. That, is racial profiling. He also, looks out of place, and isn't the point of the police to make sure things are not out of place?

IE: Statistics. It's not like these "profiles" just came up overnight with no basis, else why would they exist at all?

Click to expand...

When I read what you wrote I wonder if we live in the same country. Or maybe the problem is that I'm one of the seniors (in the age thread) because it's not the country I grew up in. It has never been ok for people of any background to be treated the way she was treated even though it was not uncommon in black communities. As for how she died: most people experiencing what she did even without being locked up for 3 days would experience PTSD. We don't know what happened during those 3 days but it probably exacerbated the trauma. As far as I'm concerned the police were responsible for her death whether she committed suicide or not.

If Bland had been across the state line in New Mexico, or in 19 other states, she couldn't have even been legally stopped for failing to signal a lane change. Even in the 23 states where a signal is mandatory, you know that a ton of people don't do it, and most cops aren't going to enforce it. I've seen a thousand instances where a LEO has ignored some minor violation because he/she didn't want to pull someone over for something not dangerous that they see upteen times a day. I have to think that this cop had a hair up his ass about something to even pull her over, especially with his unlawful demand that she put out her cigarette.

CarolKing said:

I needed an apostrophe between the "d and s" on the thread title in her name, it's bugging me. I can't fix it.

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FTFY

SHE WAS GETTING A WARNING!!!!!!!

If she complied with the officer that ordeal would have lasted 30 minutes tops!

Smoking is not illegal but when a cop asks you to do something just do it (if it's not some crazy shit). They like the feeling of authority, that's y they're fucking cops. Appease them and yes sir n no sir them to death. Not scream n swear and be ignorant.

And the cop asked pretty nicely IMO.

They were BOTH wrong!! Her for acting like an ignorant ass and him for having daddy issues with control. It's a shitty thing that happened and could have been avoided at both ends.

But call me racist if u want to. I have numerous African Americans friends coworkers and even ex's. But the media loves racial stories!! That's prob some of their best ratings besides live war footage. Honestly it's sickening. I'm not trying to have a race debate here but when those band of 'unlawful' police shootings/deaths were going on at the end of last year. I did a little search for the opposite, black cop white suspect and surprisingly found a few stories that barely made local papers. Same goes for white cop white suspect. That shit will never be national.

Well let the flaming begin lol. I think this might be too touchy for my likes.

@NickDlow we still love you even though we all disagree. It's OK!!

You are entitled to your opinion. You will not be flamed by me.

CarolKing said:

@NickDlow we still love you even though we all disagree. It's OK!!

You are entitled to your opinion. You will not be flamed by me.

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Thank you.

And you're right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's the beautiful thing.

But damn @CarolKing you love making these controversial threads lol. Keep em' coming

Appreciate the responses, somewhat figured my opinion would be in the minority, but I did want to touch on a few things (I likely will leave this thread alone after this post, but I will read any responses):

* I was wrong in regards to her putting out the cigarette, it is her every legal right to continue smoking it. Admittedly said I was somewhat unfamiliar on the topic, plus, I never really heard of anyone not just doing what the cop asked...

But, you're being difficult if you don't put out the cigarette when the cop asks. Yeah, you CAN refuse, but really, what is the big deal? At this point in time, you are pulled over. YOU failed to signal, and YOU committed the traffic violation, which resulted in the cop pulling you over. So, the easiest way to rectify the cop pulling you over, would be, to comply completely. You're able to argue the legality of EVERYTHING in court later, MUCH more effectively then arguing something their pulled over on the road. Why not take that action? You're going to fight the case on the side of the road?

Not try to make some "point" by smoking your cigarette in front of the cop. That's only going to escalate it, which it did. Why not just make him happy? It's certainly your right to not make him happy, but would be easier no? My pride or freedom never felt like it was taking a hit putting out a smoke when I was pulled over....I did something to warrant being pulled over, so this is his ball game, might as well be complacent and the utmost in cooperative.

Because, he isn't the one who started this. She started it. She committed the traffic violation, which led to her getting pulled over. Anything past that point, in my opinion, somewhat arbitrary. Cause and effect. What event caused this ultimately to happen?

I'm not disagreeing that he didn't handle the situation with the best course of action. But, I'm not saying that the cop escalated the situation by asking her to put out her cigarette. Maybe in his responses after she refused, but her refusal is starting the escalation.

Her attention while driving is what led to the encounter in the first place. (YOU are responsible for the actions of YOUR car)

This was something I found interesting as well, I just pulled it from wiki but if I need to actually find the sources, I will:

"In January 2015, Bland began posting videos about many subjects, including police brutality against blacks.[5] In one post she wrote, "In the news that we've seen as of late, you could stand there, surrender to the cops, and still be killed."[8] She has been described as a civil rights activist in Chicago, and a part of the Black Lives Matter campaign.[9][10] Bland had at least ten previous encounters with police in Illinois and Texas, and owed $7,579 in fines.[11]"

I'm not trying to beat her up, this is solely for perspective, but, she doesn't really sound like someone who would make the cop's life easy, does she? Normal, law abiding citizens, hell, even those of use who partake in the devil's lettuce, I don't think we encounter the cops 10 times prior to being 28. Or owe 8k in fines. Am I that much better then most to have had one serious police encounter and a handful of times being pulled over at 24? Counting my blessings!

* Me saying that there is a justification for racial profiling, is not at all the same as me saying that racial profiling isn't racist. I even explained the justification premising it that I'll sound racist. But, I'm saying there is a scientifically statistical justification for it (like I tried explaining in my example...albeit poorly). I'm not condoning racism in regards to humanity, morality, people, etc. Hope this makes sense, I'm not saying that any one person should be treated any differently then any other in terms of being a person......any person should be treated the same when they are pulled over.

But when 70% of the crime in an area is committed by 20 year old African American Males, is it wrong to be on the lookout for them in that area? Or should cops not look at the demographics of the area's they're patrolling? That seems, like them doing a poor job if they should ignore those facts. Or should they ignore those facts out of fear of being "racist"?

@Farid my mistake then, always though PoC was a bit more all encompassing. Never met anyone who felt strongly about it either, that being said I don't refer to my black friends as PoC...I refer to them as their names..

Some would consider it offensive. Seems like the NAACP does not, antiquated though and outdated, seems to be a common thought. I'm sure some out there do find it offensive. Seems like semantics to me, blacks, AA, PoC, but I can't control how people interpret a word, only that I see those words's intent/definition to mean the same thing, from the perspective of a relatively white person (I'm more Palestinian % wise than anything if we want to bust out the genetics)

*I am aware that this may come across as callous, but I tend to look at things from a more logic orientated perspective, rather then with emotion. Cause and effect. Would be lying if I don't share this "cut and dry" mentality about a lot of things. I'm admittedly looking at it through this lens.

BUT, don't mistake that for a lack of empathy for her family or a lack of sympathy at the situation, a life was lost and that is tragic. It's a tragic sad situation that easily could have been avoided.

I think I touched on everything I meant to touch on. Like I said at the start, I will probably let this alone, I just wanted people to see the direct correlation between event's and actions. And clear up the bit about Racial profiling = racism, because I did not think I ever implied it was not racist (was not my intent at least), so apologies if there was confusion. My initial post also wasn't meant to flame or troll or be intentionally against the grain of thought, but my train of thought was admittedly against the grain so I felt compelled to share my take.

Yeah, I've got to say if she's smoking in her own car, the officer should have written her a ticket and sent her away. Is there any offense in this jurisdiction relating to smoking a cigarette in your own car? I find that difficult to believe perhaps unless there is a child in the car.

I don't think that the officer is gonna be likely to have any specific lawful grounds to ask her to put out the cigarette in her own car.

If she just failed to indicate, best practice in policing would be to ticket her and send her about her business - in the absence of legally admissible evidence that she is committing any other offense.

This appears to be no serious infraction, it should never result in any custodial punishment unless she has resisted a lawful direction from the officer (which correct me if I'm wrong, the officer's direction to put out the cigarette is not legally enforcable nor required!?).

What really got me, was when Sandra said, "You threw me on the ground, I've got epilepsy!" And then the Trooper responded with, "Good!".

That is extremely petty and childish. It just shows what frame of mind he was in.

So basically he forcibly pulled her out of her car because she wouldn't put out her cigarette then arrested her. She indeed kept pushing his buttons and he lost it.

We don't know what exactly happened to her over 3 days in jail. She possibly was combative with the jailers too. It's their job to protect the prisoners in jail no matter how annoying they can be. No cameras in the jails in Texas? Thank goodness there was a dash camera on the cop's car.

Sandra kept saying she couldn't wait for court. I don't think she ever got her day in court did she?
It looked like from what I read about her she was a crusader for black injustice. She made her feelings known to the cop. That just pissed him off all the more.

Another police officer said, "well we have it all on video".The said cop didn't act thrilled to be reminded of that.

I'm sure they were hoping to find some kind of contraband in her car when they searched. I didn't hear of any.

He outright lied to the other cop when explaining what happened. He said he tried to calm her down. He did the opposite. We couldn't see when she was out of the view of the camera when there was a scuffle going on. I think the police officer had better things to do than pull this woman over to begin with.

IMO this police officer should lose his job. He was so full of shit when trying to explain things at the end of the video.

This woman should have been polite to the officer but he was way out of line.
I feel so sorry for the family, this should never have happened.

NickDlow said:

But call me racist if u want to. I have numerous African Americans friends coworkers and even ex's.

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We're still cool tho....

NickDlow said:

SHE WAS GETTING A WARNING!!!!!!!

If she complied with the officer that ordeal would have lasted 30 minutes tops!

Smoking is not illegal but when a cop asks you to do something just do it (if it's not some crazy shit). They like the feeling of authority, that's y they're fucking cops. Appease them and yes sir n no sir them to death. Not scream n swear and be ignorant.

And the cop asked pretty nicely IMO.

They were BOTH wrong!! Her for acting like an ignorant ass and him for having daddy issues with control. It's a shitty thing that happened and could have been avoided at both ends.

But call me racist if u want to. I have numerous African Americans friends coworkers and even ex's. But the media loves racial stories!! That's prob some of their best ratings besides live war footage. Honestly it's sickening. I'm not trying to have a race debate here but when those band of 'unlawful' police shootings/deaths were going on at the end of last year. I did a little search for the opposite, black cop white suspect and surprisingly found a few stories that barely made local papers. Same goes for white cop white suspect. That shit will never be national.

Well let the flaming begin lol. I think this might be too touchy for my likes.

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Bro, I get what you mean and you know I got nothing but respect for you (like countless others here I'm sure!) I have never, ever gotten the impression that you are racist in the slightest.

Still, as someone who teaches budding police officers:

If it is not a lawful direction, the officer should probably refrain from issuing it - and should certainly refrain from attempts to enforce it or escalate things because of it! Police are there to enforce the law.

Clearly, the tragically departed Ms. Bland was not helping things as you say, it doesn't generally pay to argue with cops.

Still, it appears that she had the law on her side with regard to the cigarette, the officer should have let the cigarette and any subsequent reaction/conversation go. This is because the officer's direction with regard to the cigarette does not seem to have been lawful and as such, she had every right to refuse.

Can you be asked to put out a cigarette during a traffic stop?

To me , it seems like a reasonable request.
-Why should a cop have to breathe second hand smoke?
-Why should the driver be allowed to hold a potential "hot tipped weapon" ?
- It is common practice for drivers being pulled over to light up, to hide alcohol or drug smells

There are many legal activities that cannot be done during a traffic stop
- it's legal to have your car running, but for officer safety they request it be turned off
- it's legal to hold your hands in your jacket pockets, but officers will ask to see your hands
- it's legal to sit in your car but an officer can have occupants exit, for everyone's safety

And why is all this officer "safety bullshit" necessary?
Because not two blocks from my house, a local officer that volunteers at the same elementary school as my wife and I, pulled someone over for a routine stop and the lowlife degenerate killed him on the spot.
The scumbag said he just hated cops.
A cop doesn't know which traffic stop is going to be the lethal attack on them so I'm ok with them taking extra safety precautions that are reasonable.
Note that I'm not talking about letting them abuse their power though.

MinnBobber said:

Can you be asked to put out a cigarette during a traffic stop?

To me , it seems like a reasonable request.
-Why should a cop have to breathe second hand smoke?
-Why should the driver be allowed to hold a potential "hot tipped weapon" ?
- It is common practice for drivers being pulled over to light up, to hide alcohol or drug smells

There are many legal activities that cannot be done during a traffic stop
- it's legal to have your car running, but for officer safety they request it be turned off
- it's legal to hold your hands in your jacket pockets, but officers will ask to see your hands
- it's legal to sit in your car but an officer can have occupants exit, for everyone's safety

And why is all this officer "safety bullshit" necessary?
Because not two blocks from my house, a local officer that volunteers at the same elementary school as my wife and I, pulled someone over for a routine stop and the lowlife degenerate killed him on the spot.
The scumbag said he just hated cops.
A cop doesn't know which traffic stop is going to be the lethal attack on them so I'm ok with them taking extra safety precautions that are reasonable.
Note that I'm not talking about letting them abuse their power though.

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But that's exactly what he did. It's rude and provocative but refusing to put out a cigarette or open a door is not illegal and doesn't warrant a taser.

cops are the biggest gang in the world. They are a bunch of urban bullies. They need more of selection process in. more than just graduating from an Academy and walk out a so called hero and defender of the public. Pffft just a bunch of power hungry idiots. That think they are god because they have a little shiny badge

vakednotfried said:

cops are the biggest gang in the world. They are a bunch of urban bullies. They need more of selection process in. more than just graduating from an Academy and walk out a so called hero and defender of the public. Pffft just a bunch of power hungry idiots. That think they are god because they have a little shiny badge

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Is that the same comment you'd make to the departed officers saving lives in the twin towers and the countless others who lost their lives in the line of duty?

Yes there are shitty cops n good cops but you can't say every cop is a bully.

I personally know that if I was driving that car I would have complied and been on my way. IMO she wanted to make a point with the whole fuck the police stance. Resisting and arguing makes u look suspicious like you're hiding something.

Also as @MinnBobber said about the whole officer safety aspect. There is just things u do and don't do during a traffic stop. I know if I was walking up to a random car I'd be on my highest guard. You don't know what sick n crazy fucks are out there.

Like the guy in NYC who shot two cops in their car just cuz they were cops. And bragging on Instagram before doing it. Were they being bullies then?!

Putting out a smoke is not going to kill you. Why bother arguing? Yes it's not illegal to smoke and there is no law saying you have to put out a cig in a traffic stop. But who's going to really argue about that come on now.

Idk I find being respectful to cops and people in general makes life a lot smoother no matter the legality of it, to an extent.