Rosin Technique....Easy DIY Solventless

D

Derrrpp

For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky
alphabetatoad said:
You originally said silicone carbide. If you want to learn more about silica and silicon carbide I would recommend you read the silicon carbide chapter in Solid State and Materials Sciences volume 33. This might help end the confusion as to why I refer to silicon carbide as silica.
Click to expand...
As @herbivore21 said before, silica and silicon carbide are two different materials. Silica is also known as silicon dioxide, and has the chemical formula SiO2. It is commonly found in nature as quartz. Compare that to silicon carbide, the chemical formula of which is SiC. Silicon carbide is found in nature as the rare mineral moissanite. These two materials have different properties: for example, moissanite has a Mohs scale hardness of 9.5, whereas quartz has a hardness of 7. Moissanite is more similar to diamond than it is to quartz. Grains of this silicon carbide can be bonded together by sintering to form very hard ceramics such as what (I believe) is used in the D-nail presses herbivore21 mentioned.

And that is all the farther I will derail this thread. Back to the nuances of rosin-making! :science:
 
H

HOBOBOB

Well-Known Member
Derrrpp, you should read the chapter I listed as well. I referred to those plates as silica for a reason, like I said before it will end this confusion.

Let's get back to the science of extraction.. Derrrpp you got any rosin tips that don't involve a hair straightener?

And has anyone thought about using a vacuum instead of press?

Let's get some fresh ideas rolling here, I like the idea of using a roller. I'm off to go hit some of this kush ejuice I made last night and do some research on commercial rolling presses, anyone have any suggestions on reading material?



Derrrpp said:
As @herbivore21 said before, silica and silicon carbide are two different materials. Silica is also known as silicon dioxide, and has the chemicalwo materials have different properties: for example, moissanite has a Mohs scale hardness of 9.5, whereas quartz has a hardness of 7. Moissanite is more similar to diamond than it is to quartz. Grains of this silicon carbide can be bonded together by sintering to form very hard ceramics such as what (I believe) is used in the D-nail presses herbivore21 mentioned.

And that is all the farther I will derail this thread. Back to the nuances of rosin-making! :science:
Click to expand...
 
GuyLeDuche

GuyLeDuche

^ "Eat a bag of Dick's!"
Bouldorado said:
@GuyLeDuche

in terms of temperature control, this revlon is the best one I bought (reads ~240° with an IR gun after 10 min on the lowest setting). I'm just pulling the strip heaters to use on my arbor press so Idk how well the hair irons will work by themselves.

If you want a recommendation though, I'd see if Revlon makes a larger 1.5"+ iron and pick up a clamp or something to increase the pressure
Click to expand...


Cool thx, good to know. Do you recall what setting you used with it? I find the dial kinda hard to tell what it is set at? I may step up to a wider iron when this one breaks, I'm crushing it up pretty good with my DIY hand powered arbor press lol. I rigged up a press with a valve spring compressor I had lying around, very similar to this one
th

, just a matter of whipping up a jig and tabletop mount setup. You can imagine that little round foot putting some psi on the iron housing, crescent wrench duct taped to the top of the iron solved that ;) On mine the handle sticks out horizontally so I have a 18" pipe I use as an extender, give me a lever long enough and I'll move the world lol.
 
Bouldorado

Bouldorado

Well-Known Member
@GuyLeDuche

I haven't actually rosined anything with the adjustable revlon yet- I made some new plates out of a cast iron bar that've been a real hassle to mount onto the arbor press. But when I did the temperature check, I just turned the dial all the way to the right (counterclockwise).
alphabetatoad said:
Derrrpp, you should read the chapter I listed as well. I referred to those plates as silica for a reason, like I said before it will end this confusion.

Let's get back to the science of extraction.. Derrrpp you got any rosin tips that don't involve a hair straightener?

And has anyone thought about using a vacuum instead of press?

Let's get some fresh ideas rolling here, I like the idea of using a roller. I'm off to go hit some of this kush ejuice I made last night and do some research on commercial rolling presses, anyone have any suggestions on reading material?
Click to expand...

were you thinking of a vacuum to apply mechanical force (a la vacuum bagging) or to lower the atmospheric pressure?
 
H

HOBOBOB

Well-Known Member
If your arbor press already has smaller plates on it and you want to attach your other plates you may want to try hot foiling tape- it's double sided and made for high temperatures and pressures. Cheap too.
http://usa.asc365.com/newproductdetail.asp?productid=010008&typeid=1795
It states that it's heat resistant to 200 degrees but can go much higher with no problems. I attached a dye plate to one of my hot foiling machines with this tape and printed more then 120+k prints with no problems. If your looking for better temperature accuracy I would recommend a plc or pid.
Theres a quick pid diy at
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?315-PID-Controller&p=504#post504
and a nice open source raspberry pi temperature controller can be located at:
https://github.com/steve71/RasPiBrew



Bouldorado said:
@GuyLeDuche

I haven't actually rosined anything with the adjustable revlon yet- I made some new plates out of a cast iron bar that've been a real hassle to mount onto the arbor press. But when I did the temperature check, I just turned the dial all the way to the right (counterclockwise).


were you thinking of a vacuum to apply mechanical force (a la vacuum bagging) or to lower the atmospheric pressure?
Click to expand...

as far as vacuum, I was originally thinking more like a air jet so I don't believe I used the correct terminology when I said vacuum- I wasn't originally thinking about using it for mechanical force but that's definitely something to think about. Im thinking more along the lines of heating the material then using a vacuum/air jet to pull/push all of the thc/rosin off the flower material. Just a idea.. too many ideas lol
 
herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Wait, @alphabetatoad, are you referring to silicon carbide as silica because silicon carbide forms a silica oxide layer during oxidation? (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408430701718914 - BTW dude, there are multiple journals containing "Solid State and Materials Science" in the title, remember those crucial first words - "Current Opinion in" lol)

If so, I understood this already and asked the d-nail guys whether they were using oxidation to get an SiC-SiO2 material instead of just SiC. Straight from the horses' mouth D-nail do not use any oxidation process in the manufacturing of their silicon carbide components. To occur during usage, this oxidation requires temps of 1200c (IIRC) or higher which we will not ever be coming close to when squashing rosin or even dabbing on an SiC dish.

This is why I was quick to disambiguate silicon, silica and silicon carbide. I also understand that SiC can be manufactured using silica and a variety of different processing methods. Still, SiC with an SiO2 layer or SiO2 more generally are not relevant to our specific discussion of the upcoming d-nail press.

As to using a vacuum to remove rosin from a sample, we could indeed use the right pressure to cold-boil out the rosin (this is basically fractional distillation using a vacuum instead of heat). This cold-boiled rosin vapor having been extracted would have to be recondensed, but the altered pressure and associated reduced boiling point leading to the cold-boil would cause degradation to some actives too - THC boils at a higher temperature than it decarbs, to alter the pressure within the chamber to the point of cold boiling the THCA out, you'd be decarbing.

However if you don't mind the decarb, then yes this could be and has been done! :D
 
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Frederick McGuire

Frederick McGuire

Aggressively Loungey
herbivore21 said:
Wait, @alphabetatoad, are you referring to silicon carbide as silica because silicon carbide forms a silica oxide layer during oxidation? (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408430701718914 - BTW dude, there are multiple journals containing "Solid State and Materials Science" in the title, remember those crucial first words - "Current Opinion in" lol)

If so, I understood this already and asked the d-nail guys whether they were using oxidation to get an SiC-SiO2 material instead of just SiC. Straight from the horses' mouth D-nail do not use any oxidation process in the manufacturing of their silicon carbide components. To occur during usage, this oxidation requires temps of 1200c (IIRC) or higher which we will not ever be coming close to when squashing rosin or even dabbing on an SiC dish.

This is why I was quick to disambiguate silicon, silica and silicon carbide. I also understand that SiC can be manufactured using silica and a variety of different processing methods. Still, SiC with an SiO2 layer or SiO2 more generally are not relevant to our specific discussion of the upcoming d-nail press.

As to using a vacuum to remove rosin from a sample, we could indeed use the right pressure to cold-boil out the rosin (this is basically fractional distillation using a vacuum instead of heat). This cold-boiled rosin vapor having been extracted would have to be recondensed, but the altered pressure and associated reduced boiling point leading to the cold-boil would cause degradation to some actives too - THC boils at a higher temperature than it decarbs, to alter the pressure within the chamber to the point of cold boiling the THCA out, you'd be decarbing.

However if you don't mind the decarb, then yes this could be and has been done! :D
Click to expand...
What about using a vaccum primarily as a way of pressing the plates down?

Like basically, instead of using some kind of press to push the plates, you used some kind of vaccum to suck the plates together?

That's just an idea that jumped out at me watching an episode of mythbusters where they were vaccu-forming something...
 
herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Frederick McGuire said:
What about using a vaccum primarily as a way of pressing the plates down?

Like basically, instead of using some kind of press to push the plates, you used some kind of vaccum to suck the plates together?

That's just an idea that jumped out at me watching an episode of mythbusters where they were vaccu-forming something...
Click to expand...
I'm sure this could be done, although I am not sure why this would be beneficial vs hydraulics or pneumatics...
 
Frederick McGuire

Frederick McGuire

Aggressively Loungey
herbivore21 said:
I'm sure this could be done, although I am not sure why this would be beneficial vs hydraulics or pneumatics...
Click to expand...
Not necessarily beneficial, but I was thinking more that some guys have already got pretty nice vac purge equipment, so maybe they could take advantage of some equipment they already have vs getting more stuff...

I assumed pulling a tight enough vacuum would be able to get to pretty high pressures (pressure of the plate on the bud, not the pressure of the vessel which would be going down :lol:), not necessarily better than a press, but somewhat equivalent...

Though I'm now thinking it might take monger to pull the vacuum than you'd want to be pressing for?...

Science! :science:
 
H

HOBOBOB

Well-Known Member
Im not sure I completely understand- I was not talking about fractional distillation and have already gone down this path. Could you please share some links about cold boiling using pressure and no heat? this is a new concept to me..

What I had in mind was more or less a chamber that blows a high powered jet of warm air through flower material- enough to blow it off the material- Im not talking about a closed system. I know this probably wouldn't work but who thought squeezing nugs with a hair straightener would either?

also I know that solvents can sublimate under rapid decompression- has anyone thought about using this to degas/purge there material "Im probably posting this in the wrong topic"

I think Im going to stick to building a heated 6 ton press- I already ordered some silicon carbide plates

thanks for the tip ;)


Lets brainstorm new ideas for rosin.. anyone here build a press?

*EDIT*
I know what cold boiling is - stoner moment.

herbivore21 said:
Wait, @alphabetatoad, are you referring to silicon carbide as silica because silicon carbide forms a silica oxide layer during oxidation? (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408430701718914 - BTW dude, there are multiple journals containing "Solid State and Materials Science" in the title, remember those crucial first words - "Current Opinion in" lol)

If so, I understood this already and asked the d-nail guys whether they were using oxidation to get an SiC-SiO2 material instead of just SiC. Straight from the horses' mouth D-nail do not use any oxidation process in the manufacturing of their silicon carbide components. To occur during usage, this oxidation requires temps of 1200c (IIRC) or higher which we will not ever be coming close to when squashing rosin or even dabbing on an SiC dish.

This is why I was quick to disambiguate silicon, silica and silicon carbide. I also understand that SiC can be manufactured using silica and a variety of different processing methods. Still, SiC with an SiO2 layer or SiO2 more generally are not relevant to our specific discussion of the upcoming d-nail press.

As to using a vacuum to remove rosin from a sample, we could indeed use the right pressure to cold-boil out the rosin (this is basically fractional distillation using a vacuum instead of heat). This cold-boiled rosin vapor having been extracted would have to be recondensed, but the altered pressure and associated reduced boiling point leading to the cold-boil would cause degradation to some actives too - THC boils at a higher temperature than it decarbs, to alter the pressure within the chamber to the point of cold boiling the THCA out, you'd be decarbing.

However if you don't mind the decarb, then yes this could be and has been done! :D
Click to expand...
 
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herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Jared said:
Jenny Kush rosin - probably the least stable stuff I've made. Hopefully it'll taste really good.
t5Cf4da.jpg

abul08u.jpg


Glass Slipper rosin
Ke1v3g1.jpg
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Bro, that last pic has me drooling. Magnificent work! Are you using a hair straightener here or something fancier?

@alphabetatoad no worries my friend, I look forward to seeing what your press ends up being like :D

I understand what you mean by blowing the rosin off the material, but remember that steam distillation is what we are using to squoosh rosin, whereas what you are describing sounds more like making a high end hash.

I have wondered about this myself, whether perhaps we could use a series of screens (a la bubble bags) and use forced air to rapidly sift material. The jury is out on whether this would be effective, but I'd love to find out some day! :D

So many ideas and so little time!
 
Bouldorado

Bouldorado

Well-Known Member
alphabetatoad said:
If your arbor press already has smaller plates on it and you want to attach your other plates you may want to try hot foiling tape- it's double sided and made for high temperatures and pressures. Cheap too.
Click to expand...

double sided foiling tape is not a bad idea. I'll prob end up using that on my next iteration of the plates.

speaking of which, is going to happen sooner than later. I realized that the steel I used (3/16" flat bar ) is just not rigid enough to use unsupported. check out how the top half is bowing under the arbor, and that was only after ~10 presses. I'm planning on making some new plates out of angle aluminum bar, which'll be a lot stronger and heat up quicker.

N1ESsZJ.jpg

and a press of some tangerine kush:
f4LbvQN.jpg
 
DieHard

DieHard

Accessory supplier
Accessory Maker
alphabetatoad said:
Im not sure I completely understand- I was not talking about fractional distillation and have already gone down this path. Could you please share some links about cold boiling using pressure and no heat? this is a new concept to me..

What I had in mind was more or less a chamber that blows a high powered jet of warm air through flower material- enough to blow it off the material- Im not talking about a closed system. I know this probably wouldn't work but who thought squeezing nugs with a hair straightener would either?

also I know that solvents can sublimate under rapid decompression- has anyone thought about using this to degas/purge there material "Im probably posting this in the wrong topic"

I think Im going to stick to building a heated 6 ton press- I already ordered some silicon carbide plates

thanks for the tip ;)


Lets brainstorm new ideas for rosin.. anyone here build a press?

*EDIT*
I know what cold boiling is - stoner moment.
Click to expand...
Cold boiling can be used to purge solvent from oil under vacuum. Boiling points are significantly lower under vacuum. Water can be boiled at room temperature under the proper vacuum.

The extraction method you mention occurs on the daily around here. With direct intake into my lungs.
IE: Log vape. AND the taste is amazing!:whoa:
:cool::rolleyes:
 
GuyLeDuche

GuyLeDuche

^ "Eat a bag of Dick's!"
negan said:
Finally got around to trying rosin. Pretty damn badass! So much quicker than messing with solvents.
Definitely need to get a clamp, going to pick one up tomorrow.

My dad uses these for woodworking and might we something to try -
http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-KKS-KBKS...d=1437105078&sr=8-1&keywords=kreg+bench+clamp

415rBhofz9L.jpg
Click to expand...


This is a pretty slick tool IMO. Any time you can mount the clamp it allows you to apply force in much easier ways. My main issue with rosintech is the back problems that got me my MMJ card to begin with lol. I'm always looking for force multipliers to take the load off me, and mounting my clamp was a huge first step. That and adding a lever bar to the handle makes for very little human effort, but every press I seem to find a new weakness in my homebrew mount setup, so it's back to the lab lol. Looks like that Kreg solves mounting issues nicely :) and I could still use my lever handle to reduce workload.
 
Quetzalcoatl

Quetzalcoatl

DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
playin around with some hash... left was my first try with this particular stuff, middle was a new run at really low temps, it's super terpy and sappy as hell, right was the second press of what made the middle. Minty/menthol hashy taste, quire refreshing but very very sedating stuff. they didnt' have any bubble hash which i prefer but this is quite workable material and interestingly minty/menthol, more so than what i'm used to...

SDt2EiS.png


6DW0buT.png
 
S

skmanga

New Member
Hey guys!
First off I want to thank everyone here for all of the insightful posts on rosin tech :D
I've sifted through this thread and was able to experiment making my own Rosin!
Tried the hair straightener setup, adding pressure directly using c clamp vice grips with 1 inch plates from home depot for about $25. That seemed to do a better job than me pressing down using my arms, but you could definitely tell the straightener was being put through stress.

Moved on from the straightener to simply using the vice grips.
I took a torch and heated the vice grips directly on its 1 inch plates (they take temp pretty quick) and with a thermometer waited till they dropped a bit to between 200-250 degrees F.
At that point I take my .2 nug of flower and press between the clamps with as much pressure as possible.
You see the oil pooling out from the plates!
It is a very effective method for small scale personal production, you get most of the oil out the first time with only a bit of oil in comparison for the second run.
 
herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
skmanga said:
Hey guys!
First off I want to thank everyone here for all of the insightful posts on rosin tech :D
I've sifted through this thread and was able to experiment making my own Rosin!
Tried the hair straightener setup, adding pressure directly using c clamp vice grips with 1 inch plates from home depot for about $25. That seemed to do a better job than me pressing down using my arms, but you could definitely tell the straightener was being put through stress.

Moved on from the straightener to simply using the vice grips.
I took a torch and heated the vice grips directly on its 1 inch plates (they take temp pretty quick) and with a thermometer waited till they dropped a bit to between 200-250 degrees F.
At that point I take my .2 nug of flower and press between the clamps with as much pressure as possible.
You see the oil pooling out from the plates!
It is a very effective method for small scale personal production, you get most of the oil out the first time with only a bit of oil in comparison for the second run.
Click to expand...
I'd really like to see the results on this, I could see this working quite well!

However, the teeth in the plates on a vice grip may rip into your parchment/oil slick pad. I would suggest putting flat smooth SS plates over these teeth if you haven't already :)
 
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