HellsWindStaff
Dharma Initiate
I know I'm weeks late, but I've been reading the last few pages and I'm pretty interested in it.....some beautiful artwork you got going on. Expect a PM
Discontinued The Okin by D.M. Pipes
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- charcoal powered okin portable
I know I'm weeks late, but I've been reading the last few pages and I'm pretty interested in it.....some beautiful artwork you got going on. Expect a PM
Breathemetal
Well-Known Member
Ugh im getting inpatient i need my okin.
Thats it. Im going to make my own....
Lets see....toilet paper cardboard, some weed...a lighter. Bam. Done.
Thats it. Im going to make my own....
Lets see....toilet paper cardboard, some weed...a lighter. Bam. Done.
Yeah, you're probably right about that one. Also, active carbon does not seem to be very good at filtering dust/ash anyhow.
Perhaps I, and future users, will just have to accept that the Okin is a vaporizer that is powered by combustion.
Like smoking, there will be trace amounts of ash, there will be CO, and there will be additional health impacts because of those things. It's just never going to be as clean as electronic vaporizing.
I'm okay with that, it is what it is. haha.
For a quick ash test, I filled the chamber with a combination of crushed bamboo charcoal, and tobacco.
The chamber load, from tip down was as follows - Metal screen, crushed bamboo charcoal, metal screen, tobacco, fabric screen attached to wooden stem.
I figured that the black bamboo charcoal would make the white ash particles easier to see.
This is what the maple charcoal looked like after the session was complete. Non of this white ash was liberated from the charcoal during use, it tends to just stay put unless you exhale through the Okin (sending a poof of ash out into the air), or tap it on an ash tray or something...
The four air holes are still visible as a pattern in the fluffy white ash.
Ash caught on the first metal screen.
The ash build-up mirrors the hole pattern that was drilled into the charcoal.
I removed the metal screen very gently to keep the top layer of bamboo charcoal from moving around. This what was under the first metal screen. Notice a little bit of white ash caught on the piece of bamboo charcoal directly under the screen.
The bamboo charcoal was carefully dumped to examine it. Here is that first piece of charcoal again. Notice the other bit of white ash in the lower left of the frame.
Another speck of white ash found on a piece of bamboo charcoal further down into the chamber.
And another that was found about in the middle of the chamber. Note that in these photographs, there are many little glossy highlights from my light bouncing off the glossy jagged edges of the charcoal, these are not ash particles.
I could not find any ash particles within the tobacco load, but it could just be that they are harder to see.
I will be sure to examine the ABV of all future sessions under magnification to search for ash content, and report back here!
Ash might seem like a rather benign element in the grand scheme of things, considering that the amount is so small, and that most of it would get caught in the metal screen and chamber load... but I thought it was worth investigating anyhow.
Jazzah
Well-Known Member
Actually seeing it like that, it does look quite easy to do.
And if I'm not mistaken, charcoal and activated carbon are pretty much the same thing except the latter has a higher purity and porosity, so you could easily use the chunks that you lose during the making of your embers (as in the loads for you Okin). Also,
http://www.desotec.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/activated-carbon-pellets.jpg
Maybe these could also be used as embers. You would ofcourse have to verify that they are produced without any chemicals, but you could suggest, or buy in bulk and offer yourself, these pellets to users who might think it too much a hassle to make them theirselves. Might be worth it checking out what diameters they have and if its really viable. Ofcourse it does take away from the awesome 'artisanal' you've got going for all your work, but I though it could be a helpful suggestion.
Cheers
And if I'm not mistaken, charcoal and activated carbon are pretty much the same thing except the latter has a higher purity and porosity, so you could easily use the chunks that you lose during the making of your embers (as in the loads for you Okin). Also,
why do you say that? Because I was under the impression it is perfect for filtration. Furthermore, since active carbon and charcoal are pretty much the same thing, I know they make active carbon pellets, something like this:
http://www.desotec.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/activated-carbon-pellets.jpg
Maybe these could also be used as embers. You would ofcourse have to verify that they are produced without any chemicals, but you could suggest, or buy in bulk and offer yourself, these pellets to users who might think it too much a hassle to make them theirselves. Might be worth it checking out what diameters they have and if its really viable. Ofcourse it does take away from the awesome 'artisanal' you've got going for all your work, but I though it could be a helpful suggestion.
Cheers
@Jazzah , Charcoal and active carbon are not reaaally equal in their absorption properties.
Active carbon doesn't burn very well.
Anything is pellet form is probably extruded from a machine, in which case it will have a binder in it. Probably not a big deal, if it's done properly, but.. meh.. I've looked at all those routes, and maple seems much better to me.
Keep in mind that I will be offering these maple charcoals for anyone who doesn't want to make their own...and Im going to assume thats going to be about 98% of Okin owners, ha.
And making them myself will garuantee that they were made with clean wood, in the right way, to the right temperature. I would like to get an electric kiln setup so that I can make charcoal to an exact temperature everytime.
Active carbon doesn't burn very well.
Anything is pellet form is probably extruded from a machine, in which case it will have a binder in it. Probably not a big deal, if it's done properly, but.. meh.. I've looked at all those routes, and maple seems much better to me.
Keep in mind that I will be offering these maple charcoals for anyone who doesn't want to make their own...and Im going to assume thats going to be about 98% of Okin owners, ha.
And making them myself will garuantee that they were made with clean wood, in the right way, to the right temperature. I would like to get an electric kiln setup so that I can make charcoal to an exact temperature everytime.
Jazzah
Well-Known Member
It's great to find out you've really given all of this a lot of thought. I would prefer having coals made by you over an industrial process alot and I feel a little dirty that I was so quick to choose/suggest to take the easy way out. Sounds awesome if you could even manufacture the coals at a precise temperature to ensure maximum purity.
Another question. Does that mean you have to find dried branches of the right thickness? Or can you just cut the coals from thicker pieces of wood, because otherwise that seems like an almost impossible and terribly laborious task. Also, can charcoal be made with living or unseasoned wood? I thought not, but that would sure make it easier for me, else it might not be a stupid plan to start looking for it the minute you guys figure out the best kind, since it takes a long time to season.
Thanks for the reply, and happy you wanna go all the way as far as selfmade and material fidelity go.
Bless
Another question. Does that mean you have to find dried branches of the right thickness? Or can you just cut the coals from thicker pieces of wood, because otherwise that seems like an almost impossible and terribly laborious task. Also, can charcoal be made with living or unseasoned wood? I thought not, but that would sure make it easier for me, else it might not be a stupid plan to start looking for it the minute you guys figure out the best kind, since it takes a long time to season.
Thanks for the reply, and happy you wanna go all the way as far as selfmade and material fidelity go.
Bless
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natural farmer
Well-Known Member
Would a very dense screen under the charcoal mess with the airflow? It could trap most of the ash wouldn't it?
The airflow through the Okin is already somewhat limited simply by the small air channel. Adding a high micron screen between the charcoal and the load would interfere with both the flow and the heating. I don't think it would work. I also don't think it is necessary. Any ash from the charcoal (and there's not much really) is either caught on the screen or by the load.
This morning I learned a valuable lesson. I wanted to see if cleaning out the stem with a pipe-cleaner would make any difference. I couldn't detect any, which didn't surprise me. The pipe-cleaner came out pretty clean, so there's not much build-up in there yet. The lesson is this: if you clean out your Okin with a pipe-cleaner, be sure to blow through it before you inhale. I got a mouthful of fluff from the shitty pipe cleaner I used. Don't do this at home, folks!
Your devoted beta tester, pakalolo
Making mistakes so you don't have to...
Your devoted beta tester, pakalolo
Making mistakes so you don't have to...
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Pak - if you can, get yourself some pipe cleaners with bristles (a mixture of fluff & bristle). They are sturdier and do a much better job of loosening debris without leaving the soft fluff behind. The softer pipe cleaners without the bristles are more for wicking out the accumulated moisture, which would be a good follow-up to the bristle cleaning. The longer ones can be folded to double the width and form a tighter scour for moisture and routing the stem. http://www.pipesandcigars.com/pipe-cleaners/66605/dills-pipe-cleaners/
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Thanks for the tips. I already have a pack of bristly pipe cleaners. I just didn't use one this time.
Okay, It's been a while since an update.
For the past week or so I've been testing the new charcoals, making sure that they are perfect before sending them out to the testers.
The newest charcoal design is: Maple, 5/8" length. 4-5 holes in a ring pattern are drilled through the middle of the charcoals. Drilling the center holes will be the only preparation steps required before use. Each charcoal should fit perfectly and make a good seal against the metal tip.
Heat delivery starts low for the first few draws, with only flavour and light wisps of vapour as the charcoal gets going. After about 2-3 draws, visible vapour production starts and continues to be consistent throughout the session until about the 5-6 minute mark, where the load tastes spent, and vapour production decreases, but the heat production is still strong because of the new multi-hole center holes vs. the older style single center hole which would taper off in the heat production near the end of a session.
I always achieve at least 5 minutes of solid session time, taking a draw every 5 seconds or so. I can push it to 7 minutes but never feel the need to.
It's obvious that with the new charcoals, the metal tip is getting much hotter. This is because the multiple holes in the charcoal put the hot air inlets closer to the side walls of the metal chamber, where as before, the single central hole created a more concentrated flow of hot air through the center of the chamber, further away from the side walls.
This seems to benefit the vapour production by introducing a level of conduction heating during the second half of a session. This has been confirmed by completely removing the burning charcoal in the middle of a session, and still being able to get a few draws of wispy vapour out of the Okin. The effect is small, but I believe it improves the functionality.
Since the metal is getting so hot, I've had an issue with the cotton thread I've been using. It will char it after a few sessions. Once the thread is charred, it seems to protect itself with this layer of carbon, and it will sort of look more like a solid black ring. It still functions just fine as an O-ring seal, and remains tight. Though, I am going to look into use Nomex thread for the production models... just not sure if it's necessary yet.
The new charcoals are harder to light because of the increased size. You can use a regular lighter, but a torch lighter will really help. I have tried to use wooden matches, and I would say that it's only recommended in an emergency, it's possible... but a huge pain in the ass. A torch lighter will light a charcoal in about 5-10 seconds.
Once the charcoal is going, You're pretty much dedicated to the session, if you don't take a draw for like 30 seconds, you may have to re-light the charcoal. Keeping the charcoal glowing healthy for the entire session will require draws at least every 15-20 seconds.
So there you have it. I'll post some photos of them later to give you guys a better idea of how I prepare them. Also, because of the new shape, I can fit about 10 charcoals into the box. I find it best to take 10 minutes or so to drill out the holes in all 10 charcoals at one time, then I'll have them all ready for future sessions.
I'll be sending them out to the testers tomorrow, and hopefully this will be the last change!
For the past week or so I've been testing the new charcoals, making sure that they are perfect before sending them out to the testers.
The newest charcoal design is: Maple, 5/8" length. 4-5 holes in a ring pattern are drilled through the middle of the charcoals. Drilling the center holes will be the only preparation steps required before use. Each charcoal should fit perfectly and make a good seal against the metal tip.
Heat delivery starts low for the first few draws, with only flavour and light wisps of vapour as the charcoal gets going. After about 2-3 draws, visible vapour production starts and continues to be consistent throughout the session until about the 5-6 minute mark, where the load tastes spent, and vapour production decreases, but the heat production is still strong because of the new multi-hole center holes vs. the older style single center hole which would taper off in the heat production near the end of a session.
I always achieve at least 5 minutes of solid session time, taking a draw every 5 seconds or so. I can push it to 7 minutes but never feel the need to.
It's obvious that with the new charcoals, the metal tip is getting much hotter. This is because the multiple holes in the charcoal put the hot air inlets closer to the side walls of the metal chamber, where as before, the single central hole created a more concentrated flow of hot air through the center of the chamber, further away from the side walls.
This seems to benefit the vapour production by introducing a level of conduction heating during the second half of a session. This has been confirmed by completely removing the burning charcoal in the middle of a session, and still being able to get a few draws of wispy vapour out of the Okin. The effect is small, but I believe it improves the functionality.
Since the metal is getting so hot, I've had an issue with the cotton thread I've been using. It will char it after a few sessions. Once the thread is charred, it seems to protect itself with this layer of carbon, and it will sort of look more like a solid black ring. It still functions just fine as an O-ring seal, and remains tight. Though, I am going to look into use Nomex thread for the production models... just not sure if it's necessary yet.
The new charcoals are harder to light because of the increased size. You can use a regular lighter, but a torch lighter will really help. I have tried to use wooden matches, and I would say that it's only recommended in an emergency, it's possible... but a huge pain in the ass. A torch lighter will light a charcoal in about 5-10 seconds.
Once the charcoal is going, You're pretty much dedicated to the session, if you don't take a draw for like 30 seconds, you may have to re-light the charcoal. Keeping the charcoal glowing healthy for the entire session will require draws at least every 15-20 seconds.
So there you have it. I'll post some photos of them later to give you guys a better idea of how I prepare them. Also, because of the new shape, I can fit about 10 charcoals into the box. I find it best to take 10 minutes or so to drill out the holes in all 10 charcoals at one time, then I'll have them all ready for future sessions.
I'll be sending them out to the testers tomorrow, and hopefully this will be the last change!
Awesome info Dan. Pleased you've found a solution that you are happy with and as always, thanks for taking the time to guide us through the thought and physical process 
HAPPY DAZE!
Yeah.. things slowed down here while the testers waited for the new charcoals. They won't get them till Friday or Monday. Pak might chime in soon though, he's closer to me and will get his charcoals today or tomorrow.
Breathemetal
Well-Known Member
Is there an estimated release month yet?
Everything rides on what the beta testers say about the new charcoals. If I see no room for improvement/further experimentation, then I will begin producing these for sale immediately.
Breathemetal
Well-Known Member
Alright testers listen up, quit your jobs and test this thing 24/7 until it is ready. Dont argue with me either...im getting inpatient....you wouldn't like the hulk when he is angry...
I've been silent in this thread because I was waiting for the other testers to get their maple charcoals. I've been burning about two a day with good results, but I wanted to be sure my experiences weren't unusual.
The maple charcoals are superior to the bamboo in several ways, but there's no reason to get into that since you won't be getting bamboo charcoals. The maple charcoals take a bit longer to prepare but are clearly superior.
The charcoals sent to us for testing are about 12 mm (.5 in) long. I found that the first couple of millimeters did not produce any visible vapour and only a little flavour. It took three or four draws before vapour production began, but once it did it was tasty and thick—depending on your draw. Because of this, I have been shortening my charcoals by 1-2 mm. Short charcoals start producing vapour on the first or second hit, and still provide about 5 minutes of burn time. It's not clear yet whether Dan will deliver 12 mm or 10 mm charcoal, however. The longer length can always be easily cut down, but I'm not sure why anyone would prefer them. Perhaps another tester will come up with a reason, but I'm skeptical.
It is easy to pull too hard on the Okin and ruin the flavour, or worse, start combustion. It's also easy not to pull so hard and with breath control, you can get nice thin tasty vapour or thick cloudy stuff. The Okin works best with light, MFLB-style draws. If you pull too hard, the temperature climbs rapidly and you will overshoot and get a burnt taste, or actual burning. Not pleasant, and the Okin is also like the LB in that once you combust, it takes a couple of loads before the nasty taste goes away. On the other hand, it's pretty easy to control your session with just a little practice. LB users will have no trouble at all. The issue here is that pulling harder is how you get thicker vapour, so it's quite tempting.
In my experience, the Okin likes small loads, .05-.07 g, firmly packed. Loose loads and bigger loads (up to maximum, about .15 g) work, but not as well. I found it difficult to get the thick vapour that many of you prefer unless the load was packed. Dan has concurred with this but the others have yet to chime in, since they've only recently gotten their maple charcoals.
The Okin is like no other vapourizer. It's almost combustion and it feels like it. The experience is as close to smoking a joint or pipe as you can get. If you like ritual, preparing a charcoal and loading the Okin will appeal to you. I find that using it is a comforting throwback to mymisspent well-spent youth. The Okin is not for everyone, but I think that those who grok it will really love it.
The maple charcoals are superior to the bamboo in several ways, but there's no reason to get into that since you won't be getting bamboo charcoals. The maple charcoals take a bit longer to prepare but are clearly superior.
The charcoals sent to us for testing are about 12 mm (.5 in) long. I found that the first couple of millimeters did not produce any visible vapour and only a little flavour. It took three or four draws before vapour production began, but once it did it was tasty and thick—depending on your draw. Because of this, I have been shortening my charcoals by 1-2 mm. Short charcoals start producing vapour on the first or second hit, and still provide about 5 minutes of burn time. It's not clear yet whether Dan will deliver 12 mm or 10 mm charcoal, however. The longer length can always be easily cut down, but I'm not sure why anyone would prefer them. Perhaps another tester will come up with a reason, but I'm skeptical.
It is easy to pull too hard on the Okin and ruin the flavour, or worse, start combustion. It's also easy not to pull so hard and with breath control, you can get nice thin tasty vapour or thick cloudy stuff. The Okin works best with light, MFLB-style draws. If you pull too hard, the temperature climbs rapidly and you will overshoot and get a burnt taste, or actual burning. Not pleasant, and the Okin is also like the LB in that once you combust, it takes a couple of loads before the nasty taste goes away. On the other hand, it's pretty easy to control your session with just a little practice. LB users will have no trouble at all. The issue here is that pulling harder is how you get thicker vapour, so it's quite tempting.
In my experience, the Okin likes small loads, .05-.07 g, firmly packed. Loose loads and bigger loads (up to maximum, about .15 g) work, but not as well. I found it difficult to get the thick vapour that many of you prefer unless the load was packed. Dan has concurred with this but the others have yet to chime in, since they've only recently gotten their maple charcoals.
The Okin is like no other vapourizer. It's almost combustion and it feels like it. The experience is as close to smoking a joint or pipe as you can get. If you like ritual, preparing a charcoal and loading the Okin will appeal to you. I find that using it is a comforting throwback to my
grokit
well-worn member
This sounds like my esv, where I would ramp up my draw at the end of a hit to cool it off, and would unfortunately combust. It's pretty much the opposite of all my other vapes (never used an mflb).
The LB dies if you pull too hard, so in that sense the Okin is exactly the opposite. I find it easy to sense how hard to pull from the taste and temperature, but I have a lot of experience and I'm not sure how easy it is for someone with little or none. I expect most people will need a few attempts to get the Okin experience tuned in.