Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"

Likes2vape

Well-Known Member
Temp control is already enabled the instruction book is wrong no need to download anything.

I have gotten that "short" error when trying to fire kanthal in temp mode. Not sure why it's doing it with ti wire.
 
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Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
I think the problem might be explained at the 4:55m mark here This guys says when in joules mode ohm resistance is only read from 0.12 to 1.0 ohms. These Ti wires jump above 1.30 ohms once warmed so that probably explains that. Thank you sir!

Edit: my hercs work sometimes but I usually get the "dry coil no liquid" screen.
 
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Joel W.,

2clicker

Observer
I use fc2000 works great ... I was actually pretty curious wether or not the dry fire protection would affect the dbc.

it should affect any nickel/Ti coil if the wire is dry right?

i read somewhere that some of these new units coming out with Evolve chips do not have a dry fire protection.

the YiHi chips are the caddies of temp limiting chips at the moment, but that dry fire protection does not help those using these devices for dabbing.

i am trying to decide on a few dif TC mods. if the dry fire protection is an issue then maybe i should look into other options.
 

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
This Ipv4 works pretty good with these 7.4v dual Ti wire carts even without the TC working just yet for me. I set it to 32w and the first push reads only 5.12v @ 0.82 ohms (getting warm, small vape), then the second push, it ramps up to 6.32v @ 1.25 ohms (vape getting thick now), third push it goes up to 6.5v @ 1.33 ohms (vape rolling full on now).

Edit: All about one second pushes.

This is way better than my old mod stick. It's not an ejuice setup but it's my new one hitter quitter for now. :)

30tmbsw.jpg
 
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2clicker

Observer
it'll be nice when the price comes down even more........

also, you mentioned some oxidation on the titanium you had bought, did variable wattage mod (clourpor mini) help that?

honestly i stopped using it because it scares me. my cloupor still allows the coil to get red hot. i can pulse it obviously, but still the oxidation i saw has me worried about using Ti in a non temp limiting device.

a temp limiting device should completely eliminate the worry. so until i cop a TC device i will not be using Ti wire.

oh and the new 4mm size of RXW is available now. they call it RXLW. it has a 1/8 hollow core! cant wait to get ahold of some.
 

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
I was a little worried about these Ti2 wires also but I think if you keep them oil soaked, these won't glow until they dry and I watch the resistance so it does not go above 1.4ohms. So far, i feel ok about these after a few days of heavy use but I have nothing to go on, Any studies on Ti out there?. They still look like new to me. Besides I am a welder and I probably breath more shit by 9am then, well, most welders (I say this because I start at 4:30am). lol :)
 

HealTHCareRocks

New Member
Hello fellow FC vapers out there! This is my first "how-to" post, hope it starts a good conversation :)
Actually its my first post ever! :p
Now lets get started.

I'm starting this thread to get a discussion going on the topic of using Advanced vape/e-cig mods(APV) to consume oil/wax and what equipment we use. I haven't seen any topics like this as most topics are brand specific (Cera, g-pen, ect) and I would like to topic to stay non-brand specific, but more on the different "form factors"

So what is an Advanced E-cig?

There are several form factors out there when it comes to personal vape pens, so let me break it down it to "ranges"

1) low range Key identifying factors: Small, cigarette sized e-cigs. These are the same exact size as normal everyday cigarettes. the tip typicly glows while you take a drag like a real cig. These are the most common among people trying to quit smoking (most fail, some will succeed)

2) Micro G/cloud. Key identifying factors:oval shaped body, small, but more power than the above cigs. They even have wax atomizers!!! Sigh, if you are a true oil head, prepared to be disappointed. While yes they can "vape" oil/wax you can plan on taking several hits to feel good. For me it seemed like too much work, so the good ol' standby nail got used, this thing collected dust.

3)ego's, atmos ect. Key identifying factors: Round shaped, sharpie sized vape pen. These have the highest market amongst most e-cig vapers' These typicly use the standard 510 connection (common amongst most e-cigs) *this is the level I, where I was actually able to kick my cigarette smoking habbit* Now even in this group there are 2 distinct differences: set voltage and adjustable voltage. Adjustable, being the better as you can up the power/vapor production. Max power ~9-10watts

4) Advanced VV/VW Mods (Provari, evic ect) Key identifying factors: much larger than group 3 vaporizers, approximately 1" in diameter Standard 510 connections, digital displays, constant voltage or constant wattage control, user selectable. Max power 15-20 watts

5)Advanced Personal Vaporizer (APV)/Mechanical Mods) Key identifying factors: No electronics (displays ect) Now there are called Advanced, not due to their technological capabilities, but due to the fact they are for "Advanced Users" Meaning you need to know how to properly use OHM's LAW for building your own coils (I'll try and simplify this later), be aware of possible/potential dangers, and making sure your equipment its up for the task. Maximum "safe" power= 42watts Maximum Peak power = 75watts you can see the benefit here :)


For this thread I want to focus on group #5 as it, and trust me when I say this, can out perform your TI nial/globe setup!!!! Yeah, no 45sec hits to get a tiny amount of smoke. I'm talking big, give you asthma for 15 min, man up here it comes!!

Now let me start off with what makes the mechanical mods (APV) the "CHOICE" e-cig platform. Simple..... Power. With no electronic limitations, the mechanical mod is only limited by your batteries current ratings. For this reason, I use only the most powerful batteries I can. For most off the shelf mechanical mods/APV's that will be the good ol' lipo 18650 3.7v. Now even amongst the 18650's out there you are going to want a "High Drain" rated one. Look for AW IMR 18650s as they seem to have the best in class power output with a 10amp continuous/18amp peak output.

Armed with the specs of the battery, we can design a coil to go with it to extract the best (not maximum) vapor from.

Which brings me to the next part that we will need.... An Rebuildable Dripping Atomizer (called an RDA or RBA). Now there are several models on the market and a quick search on google or ebay will land you several options. What they are is basicly a standard 510 atomizer connection, with a chamber and a few posts terminals to hook up your coil/coils and finally a cap to cover it all up :)

Here are a few pics of my current setup that I call the "Skeptic Killer" and specs:
Mechanical mod :Titan
Atomizer : Ebay Nimbus clone
Coil/wick setup : 1/8 316 stainless steel cable (5/8" long),1 1/4 wrap of (oxidized 500 ss mesh) and for the coil 3 wraps of 22ga. Kanthal A-1 resistance wire @ 0.15 ohm.

Here is the Mechanical mod + atomizer with the cap off:

IMG_20130728_084853_199
by TrueNorthStar, on Flickr

Loading 1g of near shatter oil on top of the coil:

IMG_20130728_085111_503
by TrueNorthStar, on Flickr

Here I "Primed" the wick/coil buy pulsing the power for a really short time, ~0.5sec (NOTE: with "this" setup, be careful with the priming process, coil has the ablility to flash boil the oil very very quickly, you don't want this to happen with the cap off :p) Notice the bubbles in it just from the short burst of power!!!

IMG_20130728_085228_331
by TrueNorthStar, on Flickr

Here it is all assembled and ready to go!!!


IMG_20130728_085303_911
by TrueNorthStar, on Flickr

Notice I modified the cap to the atomizer by replacing the single 1mm air intake hole with 3 x 3/32" holes. This gives you a draw/pull like sucking air through a soda straw :) get that out of your g-pen!!!

A few considerations to keep in mind:

RDA/RBA atomizers are meant for dripping a few drops of "e-liquid" and blasting out large amounts of vapor, that said there is no "storage tank". When your oil melts down, it will become as liquid as baby oil. Since that is the case, when I assemble the RDA/RBA cap and body, I place the "air intakes" opposite of the coil, this way I can tilt it back and make the liquid hot oil pool around the coil and not leak out of the intake holes (FYI this is opposite of how they are typicly setup for e-liquid) You WILL BURN YOURSELF if the hot oil leaks out onto your hand, so be mindful of the vaporizers orientation while it is hot!!! Once cool, they are pocket friendly, so leave it upright after use!!!!

It is normal for the unit to get hot near the atomizer, not the body/activation button. If the battery starts to feel warm, stop using it, replace it with a fully charged one. If that battery gets hot, then you have a short or a bad connection. Make sure all of your electrical contacts are kept clean!!!

Once you notice the vaporizer not hitting as hard, re-charge your battery. As a matter of fact, keep your batteries as fully charged as possible, as that is when they are the safest to use :)



Now here are a few things I have found, avenues for research:

Coil Wire Size: The smaller the wire, gauge wise, the faster the response but expect shorter life. The heavier the gauge, slower response (at the same current level), higher power output @ lower temperatures and will last longer. (typical off the shelf atomizers/carts use between 34-38 ga wire... super responsive, but short lived life and low power output)

Also, the heavier the gauge the more current it can handle.

If you compare 32ga. vs. 22ga. @ the same current, the 32ga will be hotter but transfer less power and the 22ga will be colder, but transfer more power.

The SS cable wick made a huge difference when it came to:
A) controllability, it acts as a thermal ballast, at high power levels it is really easy to ignite your oil if not careful. So with the response slowed down you can "tell" when a blowout is about to happen and let off the power before it happens.

B) Since the cable gives you better control, your coil never gets as hot, therefor extending the life time of the coil.

C) When oil is hot the cable sucks it up fast, keeping more of the coils element in contact with oil = less burning (yes you can burn oil)

My coils last about 2 months of constant abuse (0.5-1.5grams a day)


I'm pretty sure I can't be the first to try this, so I'm hoping there are a few people that have some experiences they can share!!!

Oh yeah, just ordered the new Phonix V6 RBA off ebay, it looks like it may be more user friendly in that you can remove the cap while keeping it in a deep well so you can load and prime the coil without worry of spilling out. I'll let you know how that goes when I get it in. Ok so I have an IPV 3 and I can set my watts all the way from 7.0 to 150 what should my watts be for wax?

Ok I'm new to this website sorry if I posted wrong. I have an IPV 3 without and RDA. My watts can go from 7.0 all the way to 150. So my question is what should I set my wattage at for smoking wax?
 
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Likes2vape

Well-Known Member
Ok I'm new to this website sorry if I posted wrong. I have an IPV 3 without and RDA. My watts can go from 7.0 all the way to 150. So my question is what should I set my wattage at for smoking wax?
I'm usually between 13-17 watts 15 is what I keep it at most of the time. I think really it depends on your coil, how hot it heats up, what you're using for wicking etc. I would start low and work your way up till you find what is best for you.
 

MileHighLife

Blower of glass, grower of grass
Ok I'm new to this website sorry if I posted wrong. I have an IPV 3 without and RDA. My watts can go from 7.0 all the way to 150. So my question is what should I set my wattage at for smoking wax?


I keep mine at 10 watts but due to the temp limiting feature it never actually pushes that ... it pretty much stays between 4 and 8 watts with the temp limiting set at 600 degrees. So if your looking for good flavor I'd say start at 7 and work your way up.
:2c:
Welcome to FC!
 
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2clicker

Observer
are these still going into the derringer's? how much of a Ohm change do you anticipate with thicker coil?

yes i plan on experimenting with the new size. going to try some dif coil designs tho. you cant really make DBCs with RXW except the smallest size. the weave is not tight enough and comes apart when bending it. anyway, my plan was to make a traditional micro coil and feed it through. i do plan on installing it in my derringer.

I was a little worried about these Ti2 wires also but I think if you keep them oil soaked, these won't glow until they dry and I watch the resistance so it does not go above 1.4ohms. So far, i feel ok about these after a few days of heavy use but I have nothing to go on, Any studies on Ti out there?. They still look like new to me. Besides I am a welder and I probably breath more shit by 9am then, well, most welders (I say this because I start at 4:30am). lol :)

i am quite certain that Ti oxidation is known to be carcinogenic. there was discussion in a thread here somewhere.

also i question the Ti wire i bought. as in if its suitable for this use. it says its grade 1, but i got it from a jewelry making supplier. im not sure if all grade 1 Ti is equal. or if there are different types...? anyway im going to buy some from a vape supplier to ensure its the right stuff.

also check out the link below for a bold statement from Innokin about their upcoming "true temperature control" device. this shit is getting good!

http://www.tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/2015/05/29/george-from-innokin-you-tube-star/
 

Likes2vape

Well-Known Member
Man I wish I would have waited to get a tc device. All I wanted tc for was so I could mash on the button and not worry about burnt hits.

The IPv4 has the dry coil warning and has been useless to me so far. I tried readyxwick, fc2000, white rods and keep getting the warning even with an obscene amount of oil melted in.

I also tried ti wire in tc mode and it just keeps giving me the short error. I even wrapped a .31 ti coil pulsed it in power mode and it never went above .74 After letting the coil cool down I tested in tc mode and got the short error again.

I do like the fc2000 wrapped with a ti coil. I think it tastes better than the readyxwick but I haven't tried the readyxwick with ti yet.

@2clicker grade 1 ti is grade 1 ti. It won't be any different from a vape shop vs jewelry making shop.
 

Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
Seen this one in another thread here,

another one, the eVic-VT is TC and says " 60W, its new cutting edge technology of temperature control, eVic-VT features a super large OLED screen, supporting VT-Ti (Titanium)/ VT-Ni (Nickel)/ VW mode.
 

2clicker

Observer
Man I wish I would have waited to get a tc device. All I wanted tc for was so I could mash on the button and not worry about burnt hits.

The IPv4 has the dry coil warning and has been useless to me so far. I tried readyxwick, fc2000, white rods and keep getting the warning even with an obscene amount of oil melted in.

I also tried ti wire in tc mode and it just keeps giving me the short error. I even wrapped a .31 ti coil pulsed it in power mode and it never went above .74 After letting the coil cool down I tested in tc mode and got the short error again.

I do like the fc2000 wrapped with a ti coil. I think it tastes better than the readyxwick but I haven't tried the readyxwick with ti yet.

@2clicker grade 1 ti is grade 1 ti. It won't be any different from a vape shop vs jewelry making shop.

you can still salvage most of your money tho. join an ecig forum and sell that thing. that is if you know it wont work for you. shouldnt have too hard of a time selling it i dont think.
 
2clicker,

Phife

Well-Known Member
I dont have the dry coil warnings on my 350j unless the coil is actually dry. I did have to up the temperature to 250c to get it not keep saying dry coil. Perhaps you just need to up the temp? Or maybe your device works different than the 350j.

That being said, I wish I would have waited too, as I'd love a temp controlled device that works with Kanthal as I really like the specialty wires like Clapton and Twisted as they hold the oil much better, but its hard to make specialty wire from Nickel.
 
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Likes2vape

Well-Known Member
I dont have the dry coil warnings on my 350j unless the coil is actually dry. I did have to up the temperature to 250c to get it not keep saying dry coil. Perhaps you just need to up the temp? Or maybe your device works different than the 350j.

That being said, I wish I would have waited too, as I'd love a temp controlled device that works with Kanthal as I really like the specialty wires like Clapton and Twisted as they hold the oil much better, but its hard to make specialty wire from Nickel.


Thanks for the tip on turning up the temp. It seemed to work or maybe once I let everything sit overnight the errl soaked in. Either way I'm happy to say tc is working great now. Today I have been keeping it at 15 joules/420 degrees and no problems so far.

I built a ni200 3mm 6 wrap double coil on the same wire for a total of 12 wraps with a piece of fc2000 through each coil. It came out to .31 ohms and seems to be working great so far. It's kind of a bitch to load directly on the Ni coils so I find it best if I heat the dab tool and let it drip on the coils then pulse it in. This setup has been giving some super tasty hits even hitting it straight off the rda.
 

2clicker

Observer
@Likes2vape... i saw a post of yours over at the underground... you mentioned using your IPV4 for wax as well as juice.

anyway, just wanted to give you a heads up. they dont take kindly to cannabis talk on that board. gotta kind of keep it a secret around there. i tell them that i vape "e solids". e solids are tubes of ecig juice that is more viscous than juice. sorta like a toothpaste tube with a clear gel inside.

anyway, just wanted you to know.
 
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Hoosier

Well-Known Member
Guys, looking for some help here. First of all, I really appreciate all of effort that it appears many of you have put into this journey. That said, I have a lot of hobbies and spend almost my entire day lately doing various research for work or said hobbies. I was hoping someone here could tell me the best ecig/mod based setup I should be using (cart,atty,ect) for wax/rosin. I have been using a std 510 single coil glass globe for a few weeks. I am pretty sure rosin will continue to be my go-to for a while, so it's time to step it up. Cheers!
 

2clicker

Observer
@Hoosier... what you want is a mod (anything that runs an 18650... mechanical or electronic box style), an RDA (rebuildable dripping atomizer), some good 18650 cells, and a charger.

the ONLY thing that makes these rigs different than standard ecig setups is the style of coil/wick you are using. other than that its all the same as ecig vaping.

the coils are where the magic happens. i recommend only using ceramic wicking or no wicking at all.

EDIT** as far as what the "best" gear for errl is the style of coil that suits you best. from there you can decide which atomizer is best for that coil. the mod (device that holds the battery and has the button) is not as important, but you can choose between a mechanical mod (not regulated) and a regulated mod (most look like boxes). you can really tailor your vaping experience with a regulated device. with a non regulated mod you basically are sending full power from the cell to the atomizer.
 
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MileHighLife

Blower of glass, grower of grass
Hey DIYers! Thought I'd report in. The Kangxin VF Mini has been performing great and I'm loving the new found flavor of my on the go concentrate experience. I have some spider silk headed my way so I'll be testing out the temp control on titanium wire hopefully this weekend.

On a side note I had bought an Exgo w4 atty to test out a while back and hated it ... tasted like burnt ass hole but I was using it on a mech mod. Last night I strapped it onto the vf mini and was playing around with the variable wattage and the thing is actually pretty great. At around 12 - 15 watts the flavor is so good it's hard for me to put it down.
 
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Joel W.

Deplorable Basement Dweller
Accessory Maker
. i recommend only using ceramic wicking or no wicking at all.
Is that new or only for rosin/wax?

Edit^
So I was trying my AC in temp mode again and noticed I no longer get the short ( ohms too low?) warning and now I get the dry coil warning ( ohms too high?) instead even with temps maxed. It did work/fire for a second though.

I'm guessing the resistance of nickel wire must change much less with heat/power than this ti2 wire?
 
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Joel W.,

2clicker

Observer
Is that new or only for rosin/wax?

no not new. i use ceramic personally. i use RXW of which is a braided ceramic wick (called ready x wick) or the fc-2000 stuff that many others use (same shit used in most of the premade attys like the uptech stuff).

i never had much luck going wickless, but a temp limiting device may change that.

Hey DIYers! Thought I'd report in. The Kangxin VF Mini has been performing great and I'm loving the new found flavor of my on the go concentrate experience. I have some spider silk headed my way so I'll be testing out the temp control on titanium wire hopefully this weekend.

On a side note I had bought an Exgo w4 atty to test out a while back and hated it ... tasted like burnt ass hole but I was using it on a mech mod. Last night I strapped it onto the vf mini and was playing around with the variable wattage and the thing is actually pretty great. At around 12 - 15 watts the flavor is so good it's hard for me to put it down.

you got a VF mini? nice! where did you order from, what did it cost you, and how long did it take to arrive on the slow boat?



and to add even more options to temp mod game... there are now a couple of dif models coming soon that claim they can control temp on a KANTHAL build! there are lots of vapers who are challenging these claims, but the MFGs swear its for real. time will tell.
 
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