Discontinued herbalAire

seaofgreens · May 19, 2015

Maybe something similar to what 421 put up back a few pages?

421 said:

Big ups to 421 btw for suggesting ceramic discs with the HA. I have been using the TonG with five discs, no crucible. four below .2 g herb, one disc on top. I turn the HA two clicks above 350, invert over a bong and literally get 30 straight minutes of lung satisfying vapor and only towards the very very end do I start getting that "done" taste... Awesome!

StormyPinkness · May 19, 2015

421 said:
A cut down crucible sounds really awesome, I would be interested in buying one if they started selling that. Yeah it's only useful if you are going to use water.

I would love to buy a cut down crucible, plus it would give me an excuse to order the concentrate crucibles too.

421 · May 20, 2015

421 said:
I would definitely say a new GonG should be made a little bit smaller than the PV gong. Would rather not have a tight fit, a slightly loose fit would be perfect. Really would like to ability to take HA on and off GonG really easily like a log.

Also would be cool to have: big roll stoppers on the side that the HA weight would sit on.

...

Alright after doing a bunch of testing, I don't think a loose fitting GonG with roll stoppers would work very well. The better seal, the more vapor the HA can make. I ended up using 19mm E-Nano GonG and put some small pieces of silicone tubing on it as a grommet. Tubing max temp is 500F so I believe it is safe, it ends up sitting on the teflon ring on top of the HA. The key for me was to roll the tubing over onto itself, so it makes more of a uniform layer. I want to try with some thicker tubing perhaps. Here's a couple of them with different heights of tubing.

It makes pretty good vapor actually, but doesn't extract completely, probably about 70% worth. Nice though, because you can very easily take the HA on and off between hits, this is then a sort of on-demand setup. I have been sessioning with this setup for a bit and ended up putting the rest in a crucible and then vaping a big crucible of that later. High is probably more heady and good for day time, due to the fact that without good seal and putting the load farther away in some cases, the air temp is most likely significantly lower (it is impressive that HA can even extract when load is far away imo). Taste is really great. Oh I also mostly tested with ground for this setup, the few times I did unground it seemed to work alright.

Anyway, seal is important and I see why PV made their GonGs tight... though that also has issues.

RUDE BOY · May 20, 2015

421 said:
Anyway, seal important and I see why PV made their GonGs tight... though that also has issues.

Just something to be aware of is that Herbalaire recommended not using the PV HA gong as it would likely cause damage to the HA, This was 3-4 years ago at least but i never saw anything to say this had changed.

I can't remember what problems it was causing but do remember they said not to use 'em or use them at your own risk as it may void the warranty.

VJJJV · May 20, 2015

RUDE BOY said:
Just something to be aware of is that Herbalaire recommended not using the PV HA gong as it would likely cause damage to the HA, This was 3-4 years ago but i never saw anything to say this had changed.

I can't remember what problems it was causing but do remember they said not to use 'em or use them at your own risk as it may void the warranty.

lol they just wanna sell their tongs

StormyPinkness · May 20, 2015

VJJJV said:
lol they just wanna sell their tongs

True, but also just to say use at your own risk. I could see it though, my arizer air got stretched out by a pv gong and certain stems wiggle around now. I think the elite would be ok, but I could see the mp on the ha getting loose and wiggly being a huge pain. If it fits though I don't see it hurting anything. I need to try some of my arizer stuff in my ha, I have no idea why I haven't already.

RUDE BOY · May 20, 2015

The Tongs are a very very new accessory that didn't exist until the elite model came out a year and a half ago, the problem with the PV gongs started back when pv started making 'em years ago ('09-'10?). I know that if you read through this thread you'll find more then one report of 'em causing damage to the vape along with warnings not to use them.

My post was just an FYI/PSA on my part, thought I would lay out info that was common kowledge here a few years ago since the topic of using a PV gong hasn't been raised on this thread in a few years now.
What you do with the info is up to you.

StormyPinkness · May 20, 2015

RUDE BOY said:
The Tongs are a very very new accessory that didn't exist until the elite model came out a year and a half ago, the problem with the PV gongs started back when pv started making 'em years ago ('09-'10). I know that if you read through this thread you'll find more then one report of 'em causing damage to the vape along with warnings not to use them.

My post was just an FYI PSA on my part, thought I would lay out info that was common kowledge here a few years ago since the topic of using a PV gong hasn't been on this thread raised in a few years now.
What you do with the info is up to you.

Thanks dude, I actually will. I'm definitely curious how it could besides stretching. I know the pvhes one that gets channels cut into it scratched up the inside of my air, I wonder if that was part of it.

cybrguy · May 20, 2015

RUDE BOY said:
Just something to be aware of is that Herbalaire recommended not using the PV HA gong as it would likely cause damage to the HA, This was 3-4 years ago but i never saw anything to say this had changed.

I can't remember what problems it was causing but do remember they said not to use 'em or use them at your own risk as it may void the warranty.

I don't have the PV Gong, but if it is thicker than the TonG and is difficult to get out when cool, it may well be enlarging the opening and making it too loose for properly fitting parts. That would be a bad thing.

The purpose of trimming the crucible is to make it fit with a fully inserted TonG. I greatly prefer this to expresso mode for keeping the HA clean. It also allows me to tap out the load (in the cruc) between heating sessions if I haven't finished it. I put a screen on top.
The TonG connecter is longer than the regular part, and makes a more stable (and durable) connection to the HA. I trimmed (or actually had a friend do it with a dremel) about 1/8" from a couple crucibles and that is about perfect.

421 · May 20, 2015

RUDE BOY said:
Just something to be aware of is that Herbalaire recommended not using the PV HA gong as it would likely cause damage to the HA, This was 3-4 years ago at least but i never saw anything to say this had changed.

I can't remember what problems it was causing but do remember they said not to use 'em or use them at your own risk as it may void the warranty.

Yeah... it has caused some damage to my HA I'm pretty sure. Just being tight and pulling HA in and out seems to have scraped up the inside of my HA chamber. Possibly I got some mild aluminum poisoning from that but that was a good while back and don't think I really got any negative health effects. But don't think it's worth the risk really and don't use it anymore.

TonG and cut down crucible seems the best solution, though the modified Nano GonG setup is quite fun and useful. Will keep experimenting. Hopefully @herbalaire starts offering those cut down crucibles as accessories, would be great to have the official awesome TonG + cruc setup complete from them.

RUDE BOY · May 20, 2015

I think some get stuck and people ended up breaking and pulling the heating chamber out of the HA along with their pv gong or at least making the chamber loose in the unit.

... Aluminum poisoning is rare even for those that work with it in less stable forms everyday for years, doubt a couple of scratches would be a problem. Ever drink a Soda or Beer outa a can? they are packaged in aluminum because it's quite safe.

... remember real tin cans? now, they weren't very safe.

VJJJV · May 20, 2015

hmm, my HA chamber definitely is not scratched, the teflon ring still holds the normal mouthpiece like always, but I can see how some of those problems mentioned can easily happen. I can see now why the company would discourage the use of the PV gong.

StormyPinkness · May 20, 2015

Hmmmm, I would still feel pretty safe using my non-cut pv gong I use in my air as long as the size wasn't an issue. Though with the gong your probably turning it upside down and you'd definitely want it snug then. Do you worry about the upside down top heavy ha breaking the glass gong?

421 · May 21, 2015

StormyPinkness said:
Hmmmm, I would still feel pretty safe using my non-cut pv gong I use in my air as long as the size wasn't an issue. Though with the gong your probably turning it upside down and you'd definitely want it snug then. Do you worry about the upside down top heavy ha breaking the glass gong?

When I use the Nano GonG setup, I hold the HA on there with my hand, not too bad since I want to be pulling it off after the hit. It might cause some chipping on the top if I didn't hold it. When I used PV GonG I remember I could just leave the HA on there by itself as it was more secure.

herbalaire · May 21, 2015

Sorry for the late response as we have been rather busy with new concepts and design's. To address a few questions we invented the TonG as a response to the Planet Vape GonG adapter which we found extremely difficult to remove from the chamber of the herbalAire even when cooled. Allot of user's were reporting that this adapter would get stuck in the chamber and consequentely turn the whole Aluminum assembly of the HA dislodging the air intake in the back of the unit and thus rendering our warranty void. We then decided that Teflon was a more sensible material for this application. Teflon expands and contracts when heated and cooled and is more flexible than glass. This is a safer alternative as it will not chip, scratch or bind/get stuck within the water tool or the herbalAire and residue build up will not affect the fit over time. In response to all the request's for the cut down crucible, this is an accessory we will most likely be selling in the future though demand is not there at this time. Any user can always contact us through info@herbalaire.com and we would be more than happy to make a modified crucible pack or concentrate kit for the same price as posted on our website. We have also found that the elite mouthpiece with concentrate crucible will work with the H2.2, it just won't seat flush with the top of the unit but there is enough of a taper to create a stable and tight seal once heated so that is an alternative for those looking to use the concentrate kit with the glass adapter. We have been experimenting with various forms of concentrate in different quantites and have found that even a full gram of essential oils and waxes will not leak through the triple offset screen, it will simply spread out across the multiple screens and hold while it is being spent. It is quite amazing how efficient this method is as we have found that most of our beta testers have had to remove the concentrate crucible half way through the session and reload at a later time as they were not able to spend the material in one go. This can also be a convieniant method for medical user's who prefer concentrates to herbal material as they can load a significant amount in the crucible and have multiple sessions with the same load. I hope this post addressed a few questions in this thread.

StormyPinkness · May 21, 2015

herbalaire said:
Sorry for the late response as we have been rather busy with new concepts and design's. To address a few questions we invented the TonG as a response to the Planet Vape GonG adapter which we found extremely difficult to remove from the chamber of the herbalAire even when cooled. Allot of user's were reporting that this adapter would get stuck in the chamber and consequentely turn the whole Aluminum assembly of the HA dislodging the air intake in the back of the unit and thus rendering our warranty void. We then decided that Teflon was a more sensible material for this application. Teflon expands and contracts when heated and cooled and is more flexible than glass. This is a safer alternative as it will not chip, scratch or bind/get stuck within the water tool or the herbalAire and residue build up will not affect the fit over time. In response to all the request's for the cut down crucible, this is an accessory we will most likely be selling in the future though demand is not there at this time. Any user can always contact us through info@herbalaire.com and we would be more than happy to make a modified crucible pack or concentrate kit for the same price as posted on our website. We have also found that the elite mouthpiece with concentrate crucible will work with the H2.2, it just won't seat flush with the top of the unit but there is enough of a taper to create a stable and tight seal once heated so that is an alternative for those looking to use the concentrate kit with the glass adapter. We have been experimenting with various forms of concentrate in different quantites and have found that even a full gram of essential oils and waxes will not leak through the triple offset screen, it will simply spread out across the multiple screens and hold while it is being spent. It is quite amazing how efficient this method is as we have found that most of our beta testers have had to remove the concentrate crucible half way through the session and reload at a later time as they were not able to spend the material in one go. This can also be a convieniant method for medical user's who prefer concentrates to herbal material as they can load a significant amount in the crucible and have multiple sessions with the same load. I hope this post addressed a few questions in this thread.

Alright, I'm sold. I love my current home wax setup but being able to use concentrate in the ha as easily as I use flower sounds perfect. Especially if the mess stays in the crucible and I can just iso soak it clean. I'm still like 1% skeptical about wax, just seems crazy it stays in the screens and doesn't go down the air holes. I totally want to grab a cut down crucible too.

StormyPinkness · May 22, 2015

I hate to double post but I can't edit my post from yesterday, but what temp would you vape wax at in the ha? I thought wax was 400+?

421 · May 22, 2015

I saw some people using a Kill A Watt meter on their vapes in other threads, so I tried it out on the HA. Very interesting results! At peak power, the HA takes up 50W of power. By comparison, LSV goes to 32W and the E-Nano at 16W. But the big difference in design shows: once HA comes to temp, it drops down to 0.6W. After about 10 seconds of pulling air through, it climbs back to 50W.

I wonder if higher than 400 temps can be achieved by starting at 370, switching to 400, then hitting while unit comes to temp. Maybe a technique that could be useful for concentrates. Most likely it won't work like that actually, but plan to test further.

StormyPinkness · May 27, 2015

Still not sure what temp to use when the modified concentrate crucibles come. I emailed them about it today, but I would think 400 would be a safe bet at first.

Edit: Replied like 5 minutes after I emailed. Sounds like 380 for smoother/slower vaping and 400 to use it up. I'll probably throw in 2 little bb's and start at 400 my first go.

StormyPinkness · May 29, 2015

Sorry for the double post, last post was 2 days ago though so I can't edit it.

I received and used the cut down concentrate crucibles last night and am pretty damn happy with them. Did 2 decent sized bho bb's with the whip, then 2 more with the straw all at 400. Miraculously nothing leaked through the cup, my ha is free of wax. The whip was good, but the straw was great. I don't think any of my other wax gear gives me a better taste, I'm going to do some comparing this weekend. After I was done the crucible was spotless except for a hard black flake that came right off which I'm guessing was whatever impurities were still in the wax all fried up. I was surprised I could do the straw at 400, with flower I would start coughing. Though towards the end it got to be too much and I switched to the whip.

The only negative I can say is that the vapor is light, don't expect coil or nail level of vapor. Maybe a bigger amount would get more vapor though. The taste was great and the wax was spent so it shouldn't matter unless you're a cloud chaser. I actually really like the less harsh vapor, I tend to do flower at 375 for 20 minutes so enjoying the wax leisurely instead of shotgunning it in a hit or 2 is something I'm glad I can do now.

So great taste, easy to load, so far no mess, and should be easy to clean. I'm very happy with it.

TODO: Try with shatter and try with tong

cybrguy · May 29, 2015

Interesting. I don't think it will draw me to wax, but I might get some crucibles to have in abeyance should I have access to wax in the future. Ease of use and the need for no other accoutrements is attractive.

421 · May 29, 2015

It would be interesting to see how ground up weed fares in the concentrate cruc. Sort of a more convective HA experience I'd guess? I've been experimenting with similar with nano basket screens and ceramic discs.

Also, been playing around with GonG setups and have found one with a good seal and also easy to take HA on and off. Will make a post with nice pics on it later, but quickly the setup is: 14mm E-Nano GonG (adjustabowl), basket screen positioned about 0.5cm or less down (enough for 0.5g load), high temp silicone tubing sleeve partly rolled over itself from the bottom up <--- looks like a mushroom cap, this is what makes the seal and rolled section acts as stopper. The HA sits on the GonG with the silicone sleeve inside the HA, which is why 14mm vs 19mm is needed. I really like the setup and it turns the HA into just about an on-demand convection vape. Plan to do more testing with it, extraction power is good but AVB comes out not fully brown (almost no crystals under scope tho).

Low quality phone pic

RUDE BOY · May 29, 2015

421 said:
It would be interesting to see how ground up weed fares in the concentrate cruc. Sort of a more convective HA experience I'd guess?

I always thought the HA was mainly convection in the first place, that's the only way that i see it could roast whole buds perfectly evenly all the way through, and is the purpose of those holes in the bottom of the heating chamber.

stickstones · May 29, 2015

I think there is a good amount of conduction going on as well. That little crucible comes out hot! Also, whenever I get a pure convection roast going the abv comes out a nice, light tan. Darker abv tells me more than convection is happening, especially with this unit that doesn't go over 400F. This concentrate crucible might put the herb at the same place as with the four or five ceramic discs.

cybrguy · May 29, 2015

RUDE BOY said:
I always thought the HA was mainly convection in the first place, that's the only way that i see it could roast whole buds perfectly evenly all the way through, and is the purpose of those holes in the bottom of the heating chamber.

That's why I tap out the crucible when I am done if there are more goods left. Making it as much convection as I can. Allows me to fill more than I intend to consume in a session.

Discontinued herbalAire

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