Discontinued Haze Dual V3

@Micke, keep up the good work, Sport!

Hope you get your ovens soon, UPS is grindingly slo....

Micke said:

I can't vet this as I'm not well read on batteries, but from some quick Googling, it appears a fully charged 18650 battery might be in the range of 4.1 to 4.2 volts and discharged might be somewhere near 3.7 but probably not below 3.6. However, it appears there are some variables depending upon what mah the battery is, the charge rate, the discharge rate and the battery temp. And probably some other variables I'm unaware of.

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The variables will not change the top or low end voltage, it's only the device or the person that can change these (or some chargers) 4.2 is full and low end can and does vary from battery/device, some can go as low as 2.5v but not all chargers can charge from as low as that and some can go higher than 4.2v (always worth checking any aftermarket charger for this reason)

The haze as mentioned has an upper voltage (full) of 4.2v, IIRC the lower end is 3.4v-3.5v(when red light shows, and empty (although not technically empty) is 3.2v-3.3v.

A dmm (digital multimeter) is something I always recommend (make sure to use the correct setting DC 20) to anyone using any Li-ion batteries for various reasons, even the cheap ones do a good job, I paid £14 for mine and checked it with a friends metracal MC (top quality bit of kit but way out of my price range or needs) and got same results just his gave more numbers after the . , although with the haze it's not something you have to have, but after using mechanical mod e-cigs with unprotected batteries for a few years it's something that keeps my head happy.

As for charge rate as already mentioned it is a trade off between charge speed and battery life (although IME not a huge amount will be gained or lost) slower is better due to less heat (batteries don't like heat) and a less aggressive chemical reaction internally, the haze batteries should handle (within there tolerance) a 2A charge just fine maybe even higher (I have other batteries I have used over 4A on) but I don't know the c rating of the haze batteries, if they are 2c rated this would mean the XL 3200mAh could handle 6A but it's safer to assume they are 1c and probably best to keep 2A as an upper limit.

Betty White said:

I tried dry herb in the can with the lid. There was no vapor, but the taste was there. The ABV was brown. Does anyone have the same experience?

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I may have missed it (having connection issues ) but what temp did you use? Lower temps will not give off a big amount of visible vapour but will turn ABV brown and get you where you want, try exhaling in bright light to see all vapour,
And as @NickDlow said make sure cans are correct way around, I find a fast inhale and temp 2-4 give good visual vapour (3&4 the most)

Micke said:

NickDlow,

The tabs on the cans: They need to be facing OUT away from the oven cover (door) hinge, right?

Some say to wait 15 to 20 seconds after the lights indicate full temp for concentrates - is that necessary or desirable for herb?

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This will give better visual vapour but for me I like the invisible tasty bit at the start sometimes even before upto temp, remember vaping does not need clouds to get the effect you want (although it is satisfying) when using my haze outdoors I tend to stick with low temps and no visible vapour for added stealth and I still get baked.

Count Vapula said:

I use .5A rate if I have time. That should, in theory give you the most cycles from your battery

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If you really want the most cycles, charging to around 80% of capacity and a slow charge will give this, as you cut out the trickle charge which takes the longest of the charge stages due to lowering the A even further, although this would give shorter run time per charge also, with battery's everything is a trade off when you gain in one area you loose in another.

UnshavenFish, dude, but I liked your post. But that's not enough. Gotta say: Excellent detailed info! Much appreciated!

I'd wondered about some of that but was kinda' afraid to ask. You no doubt know how it is in forums and all.

Micke said:

UnshavenFish, dude, but I liked your post. But that's not enough. Gotta say: Excellent detailed info! Much appreciated!

I'd wondered about some of that but was kinda' afraid to ask. You no doubt know how it is in forums and all.

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This forum is like no other. I look at it as more of a community and a family. Some threads on this forum can bring u to tears and fill your heart with warmth. But never feel afraid to ask anything anywhere. Even if it's the wrong question in the wrong thread someone will kindly point you in the right direction. I suggest going through some threads and check it out if you haven't yet. Enjoy my friend!

NickDlow,

Very darned much appreciated! People just like you make this site refreshingly unlike anything I've ever seen.

IMHO, this is a great place to be.

Micke

Micke said:

I believe you can get a small but usually sufficient digital volt meter from your local Harbor Freight for less than 5 bucks.

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I have read that Harbor Freight sometimes gives those away but I believe it requires the purchase of another item. It should be good (accurate) enough for checking voltages.

Micke said:

it's not a bad idea to make sure that none of the shrink wrap inadvertently covers the + or minus contacts. That's the center connector or contact of either end of the battery. It is unlikely this is the problem since even a tiny speck of plastic on either end would create an "open" condition.

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There will be some of the wrapper that has to cover the ends but there will still be a big enough hole in the center for the battery to make contact. Don't want anyone trying to circumcise their batteries. If it powers up the Haze, it's good to go.

Betty White said:

Love the "Hazing"!
Wow, I didn't realize that vaping could be such a learning experience. Do I need to check the voltage on the batteries? My Haze feels warm after I turn it on. I just don't get vapor. But I get taste and effects. I'll try some of the suggestions from the members who have posted about the cans. Thank you.

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Good suggestion by Micke to try different combinations. Voltage checking is for those of us who must know every detail.

I know some like to see the vapor but I doubt it makes much difference in getting one medicated. I don't see much visible vapor from my method of use and I prefer it that way. The clearer the vapor, the cleaner the vapor. Not sure if that is correct but it sounds logical.

Finally UPS showed an update. Mine is in the local area sort facility so I assume it is coming to me tomorrow. I'm so stoked. I pressed some rosin. About to join the crew here over at the rosin threads. I've been MIA on vape discussions so I'm gonna keep you guys posted on my experience with the Haze. This should be very fun.

UnshavenFish said:

As for charge rate as already mentioned it is a trade off between charge speed and battery life (although IME not a huge amount will be gained or lost) slower is better due to less heat (batteries don't like heat) and a less aggressive chemical reaction internally, the haze batteries should handle (within there tolerance) a 2A charge just fine maybe even higher (I have other batteries I have used over 4A on) but I don't know the c rating of the haze batteries, if they are 2c rated this would mean the XL 3200mAh could handle 6A but it's safer to assume they are 1c and probably best to keep 2A as an upper limit.

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I don't know the c rating of the Haze XL but it's a 3400mAh battery. It's hard to tell which battery it has hidden under the Haze wrapper. I know that charging my Fenix ARB-L2S 3400mAh batteries at 1A gets them warm to the touch. They don't get warm at all when charged at .5A. I know heat is a killer of 18650 batteries, that's why I stick with the .5A charge. Might as well be gentle if I have the time.

I have read about not running lithium batteries till empty because a full charge from empty is also harder on them. Also about pulling they out before the top off stage of charging. All of these practices should give an 18650 the longest life, even if only by a small fraction. I try not to drain them to empty but I do let the charger top them up. Better to have a fully charged battery.

Yeah! ! Just received my new Eds tnt wong from Puff it up. I love it. I also ordered a grinder scraper/brush to replace my broken SC pick but they forgot to send it. However with a less than 5 minute phone call to PIU I was told they are sending one. Cant wait for that either because my grinders getting gunky. All in all this was my first experience with PIU and besides the missing scraper its been great. Customer service was excellent and told me they would ship it right away. Thanks Puff It Up!!! Definitely will buy from again soon.

EDIT. Also I used the FC code and saved some cash in the process. THANKS FC

Count Vapula said:

it's a 3400mAh battery

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Yeah supposed to be, that's the ones I ordered, but mine have a little sticker on that says 3200
I haven't got round to testing them fully yet (it's on a long long list of things to do) I usually discharge to 2.7v for testing (keeping this voltage makes it easier for me to compare 'A' battery against 'B') so not sure if the 'custom' battery PCB would cause issues here, I would probably have to order new ones anyways to test as my used ones could be unfair to the results, and I always feel bad raping a battery, I mean forcefully removing it's clothes to do unspeakable things to it just feels wrong interesting but wrong.

Maybe there has been a change of battery used by haze at somepoint could be that 3200 is the true rating (reason it's on a sticker not the actual wrap) over claiming is not uncommon with batteries, I don't see haze as a company that would do this knowingly, maybe after testing they found this to be the real mAh, could just be a simple misprint.

Everything you mention about being kind/respectful to these batteries is 100% spot on , I give the same advice to others (even if I don't always follow it myself ) for the simple reason that we are talking about something that has the potential to go wrong in the ways it can, if we were talking about shaking a fizzy drinks bottle I would advise "shake people go nuts!"

For me I'm nice to some of my batteries (following the same steps you mention) and others I'm not so kind to, things like my crafty (fixed battery, well not meant to be user changeable) I'm nice, if I can swap it out easy like the haze I don't worry too much as IMO I can then see it as a wear and tear item a bit easier.

A quick note to others:
I realise I have talked about using a higher A while charging and being within "tolerance" and need to point out that it is just that "within tolerance" and also not something people should just take my word for without doing their own checks/research, for the haze IMHO the kindest/safest option would be use the OEM charger or to stick to 1A and under (even if it can/could go higher) charging a battery at over its rated A can cause serious damage/injury and most cases of things going wrong (not with haze but in general) are while charging not while in use.

Happy and safe vaping to all

Count Vapula said:

I don't know the c rating of the Haze XL but it's a 3400mAh battery. It's hard to tell which battery it has hidden under the Haze wrapper. I know that charging my Fenix ARB-L2S 3400mAh batteries at 1A gets them warm to the touch. They don't get warm at all when charged at .5A. I know heat is a killer of 18650 batteries, that's why I stick with the .5A charge. Might as well be gentle if I have the time.

I have read about not running lithium batteries till empty because a full charge from empty is also harder on them. Also about pulling they out before the top off stage of charging. All of these practices should give an 18650 the longest life, even if only by a small fraction. I try not to drain them to empty but I do let the charger top them up. Better to have a fully charged battery.

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UnshavenFish said:

Yeah supposed to be, that's the ones I ordered, but mine have a little sticker on that says 3200
I haven't got round to testing them fully yet (it's on a long long list of things to do) I usually discharge to 2.7v for testing (keeping this voltage makes it easier for me to compare 'A' battery against 'B') so not sure if the 'custom' battery PCB would cause issues here, I would probably have to order new ones anyways to test as my used ones could be unfair to the results, and I always feel bad raping a battery, I mean forcefully removing it's clothes to do unspeakable things to it just feels wrong interesting but wrong.

Maybe there has been a change of battery used by haze at somepoint could be that 3200 is the true rating (reason it's on a sticker not the actual wrap) over claiming is not uncommon with batteries, I don't see haze as a company that would do this knowingly, maybe after testing they found this to be the real mAh, could just be a simple misprint.

Everything you mention about being kind/respectful to these batteries is 100% spot on , I give the same advice to others (even if I don't always follow it myself ) for the simple reason that we are talking about something that has the potential to go wrong in the ways it can, if we were talking about shaking a fizzy drinks bottle I would advise "shake people go nuts!"

For me I'm nice to some of my batteries (following the same steps you mention) and others I'm not so kind to, things like my crafty (fixed battery, well not meant to be user changeable) I'm nice, if I can swap it out easy like the haze I don't worry too much as IMO I can then see it as a wear and tear item a bit easier.

A quick note to others:
I realise I have talked about using a higher A while charging and being within "tolerance" and need to point out that it is just that "within tolerance" and also not something people should just take my word for without doing their own checks/research, for the haze IMHO the kindest/safest option would be use the OEM charger or to stick to 1A and under (even if it can/could go higher) charging a battery at over its rated A can cause serious damage/injury and most cases of things going wrong (not with haze but in general) are while charging not while in use.

Happy and safe vaping to all

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My XL's were ordered through the Haze website and they have a sticker reading 3200mAH 3.7V.

UnshavenFish said:

Yeah supposed to be, that's the ones I ordered, but mine have a little sticker on that says 3200

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SSVUN~YAH said:

My XL's were ordered through the Haze website and they have a sticker reading 3200mAH 3.7V.

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That's very interesting about the XL having a 3200mAh sticker. Someone somewhere must have made a mistake. Haze Tech website has them listed as 3400mAh. I know 200mAh isn't a whole lot but I would expect to receive what was described. Maybe that's why they aren't as expensive as most protected 3400mAh batteries. I'm suspecting that it's a Panasonic cell under that Haze wrapper.

UnshavenFish, I know what you mean about doing the unspeakable to the batteries. I have a pair of DEworld 18650 batteries that I got with a charger for $2.50. The store was closing so it was marked down 90%. I have thought about disrobing the batteries and removing the protection circuit. Then I can find out what secret lay beneath that DE wrapper. They are only 2000mAh and a bit on the long side. They fit into my flashlights but won't fit into my Haze.

Count Vapula said:

That's very interesting about the XL having a 3200mAh sticker. Someone somewhere must have made a mistake. Haze Tech website has them listed as 3400mAh. I know 200mAh isn't a whole lot but I would expect to receive what was described. Maybe that's why they aren't as expensive as most protected 3400mAh batteries. I'm suspecting that it's a Panasonic cell under that Haze wrapper.

UnshavenFish, I know what you mean about doing the unspeakable to the batteries. I have a pair of DEworld 18650 batteries that I got with a charger for $2.50. The store was closing so it was marked down 90%. I have thought about disrobing the batteries and removing the protection circuit. Then I can find out what secret lay beneath that DE wrapper. They are only 2000mAh and a bit on the long side. They fit into my flashlights but won't fit into my Haze.

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Would protecting the cells with the chip at the end lower the mAH?

SSVUN~YAH said:

Would protecting the cells with the chip at the end lower the mAH?

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Could be a 3400 battery but the PCB makes only 3200 usable due to what it's set to cut out at, hard to say without knowing all the battery and PCB specs, or further tests, I keep looking at my XL's , little voice in my head saying "it's just a sticker not even a full shrink wrap it has an edge just pull it off" if it was the standard batteries and not the XL's I would have pulled them apart already, but I like my XL's
maybe one day when I've vaped a little too much I will get it over with and see what lies beneath, will depend how much it plays on my brain.

UnshavenFish said:

Could be a 3400 battery but the PCB makes only 3200 usable due to what it's set to cut out at, hard to say without knowing all the battery and PCB specs, or further tests, I keep looking at my XL's , little voice in my head saying "it's just a sticker not even a full shrink wrap it has an edge just pull it off" if it was the standard batteries and not the XL's I would have pulled them apart already, but I like my XL's
maybe one day when I've vaped a little too much I will get it over with and see what lies beneath, will depend how much it plays on my brain.

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I do not use that standard Haze batteries any more. XL ones are great. They last at least 4-5 more shorter sessions for me. I got them on a deal as well so I am happy. I just had 4 bowls with dry/shatter combo. Makes me appreciate my life and what I have.
This is one of the longest lasting portables in terms of battery life (at least the ones I used/owned). I wonder when we will see the new version. I am sold already.

SSVUN~YAH said:

Would protecting the cells with the chip at the end lower the mAH?

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The protection circuit would most likely add a small bit of resistance which would show up as extra voltage drop and also maybe add a tiny fraction of parasitic drain.

I'm starting to feel brave and want to try my unprotected cells in my Haze. That would give me a few extra batteries for backup power. Just for emergencies, you see.

Ok I'm weak and maybe a little , I can't take it any more I need to know what's under that wrapper, it's just sat there laughing at me because it has a secret

Will update with the goods

Ok for anyone interested....it's a Panasonic NCR18650BE so it is 3200mAh
Guess I now have a new battery for my Kato (performance will drop off way before it gets to 2.5v) or if I remove the button top something for my Innokin VTR, either way my head can now rest.

Not to off-track things from this intense battery discussion...but....

I got to try out my new Haze with some shatter yesterday and everyone was quite impressed! Just a few tiny shards between four of us - very tasty and cool - and it worked flawlessly!

I've only done concentrates a few times, but now that I see the Haze handles it so well , I am going to get some shatter of my very own. Super pleased.

I'm still loving having my pre-filled cans for herb (I now have 6 cans....its like some strange obsession...heh).

UnshavenFish said:

Ok I'm weak and maybe a little , I can't take it any more I need to know what's under that wrapper, it's just sat there laughing at me because it has a secret

Will update with the goods

Ok for anyone interested....it's a Panasonic NCR18650BE so it is 3200mAh
Guess I now have a new battery for my Kato (performance will drop off way before it gets to 2.5v) or if I remove the button top something for my Innokin VTR, either way my head can now rest.

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You are mad but awesome at the same time!

That's what I suspected was hiding under the Haze wrapper. Now just rewrap it and it'll be as good as new.

Solomon said:

Not to off-track things from this intense battery discussion...but....

I got to try out my new Haze with some shatter yesterday and everyone was quite impressed! Just a few tiny shards between four of us - very tasty and cool - and it worked flawlessly!

I've only done concentrates a few times, but now that I see the Haze handles it so well , I am going to get some shatter of my very own. Super pleased.

I'm still loving having my pre-filled cans for herb (I now have 6 cans....its like some strange obsession...heh).

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Good to hear that Haze does everything well. A "does it all" device sounds great in theory but usually doesn't work so well in the real world. The Haze vaporizer is in a rare class.

I have been extremely busy moving but it is great to catch up here...Interesting options for the batteries. I think Haze is all about options which I love. Looking forward to that accessory case.

Count Vapula said:

Now just rewrap it and it'll be as good as new.

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I'm way past that I have extra wrap but would need new wire (only stuff I have is too thin/narrow, and don't want to chance shorting out the case) to put the PCB back together, plus I don't think my iron would be any good without causing damage to the PCB and battery, safest option is to keep it for one of my mods, I've not lost a battery just found a different use for it

I had hoped it was a strange unknown battery so I could go all mad scientist on it, but no need now
On the plus side it is a quality battery and put together well

Although I'm now starting to wonder what the standard batteries are maybe a little mystery in my life could be good, might wait till I get some replacements.

I'd mentioned updating from the UPS Surepost abortion to UPS Ground. At this point, my best advice is: Don't attempt this upgrade. UPS is now using it as an excuse to delay every move they make.

Now it appears things are in limbo with UPS wanting an updated address. The address they display on record is 100% correct. The update links in UPS MyPost are dead anyway so there is no way I can even update to the same address.

The above is not Haze related, but I'd mentioned what I did before and thought I should say: Don't do it. Just wait the several weeks for UPS/9th Class Mail "Surepost" and hope you chance upon it in the middle of the road somewhere.

To take out one of the engineered days of delays, I'm off to the mail shed to get the Haze XL batteries and get them charging. Looks like I might or might not get it next week sometime. Will update after first usage.

UnshavenFish said:

I'm way past that I have extra wrap but would need new wire (only stuff I have is too thin/narrow, and don't want to chance shorting out the case) to put the PCB back together, plus I don't think my iron would be any good without causing damage to the PCB and battery, safest option is to keep it for one of my mods, I've not lost a battery just found a different use for it

I had hoped it was a strange unknown battery so I could go all mad scientist on it, but no need now
On the plus side it is a quality battery and put together well

Although I'm now starting to wonder what the standard batteries are maybe a little mystery in my life could be good, might wait till I get some replacements.

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Yes, safe is good. Don't need a charred UnshavenFish.

I already knew you had gone to far. I'm glad Haze went with a good quality cell rather than some strange unknown cell. Does it say made in Japan? I have seen some Panasonic cells with "Made in China" on their label. They are always a lot cheaper, I wonder why.

Yes, leave a little mystery in your life. Don't go cracking all the secrets of the universe, just yet.

Count Vapula said:

Yes, safe is good. Don't need a charred UnshavenFish.

I already knew you had gone to far. I'm glad Haze went with a good quality cell rather than some strange unknown cell. Does it say made in Japan? I have seen some Panasonic cells with "Made in China" on their label. They are always a lot cheaper, I wonder why.

Yes, leave a little mystery in your life. Don't go cracking all the secrets of the universe, just yet.

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Yeah made in japan makes sense as Panasonic is Japanese although they probably have factories over there (China)

In terms of quality IMO I think japan, Korea then china.
Maybe this is me being 'stuck in the past' but meh

There are a lot of quality items that come out of china, but given the choice I know I would go Japanese.

Ok Im fairly sure I have the most recent version of the Haze but how do you tell what model you do have? Im curious in part because of the upgrade program.