Discontinued Zion vaporizer

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
OH snaps!!! I finally got to see those recessed buttons.I didn't realize you were going to do the same with the temp also.Looks tight and out o' sight!
HD I though you would have picked up on the Zion 100 knob in the tweet about the no glueless screen... It was hidding in the background. I slid one past yah hah? Lol. @thekarmawhore I just sent you the specs on it. Recess that sucker with just a 1/4" or so sticking out... Pretty much bullet proof I'd say ?
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
OH, I see. So if I want the full skinny I need to be on that twitter thing too?
 
cybrguy,
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°k

The sound of vapor
@thekarmawhore that 3d rendering with the side button not sticking out looks pretty slick indeed, will it be like that in the final design?
I hope you got the same plan for the temp knob, stop making us wait and let us know! :D
 

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
As I understand it, it's actually a power control knob, since it doesn't regulate temperature directly.
Good clarification Pak. This is an "open loop system". Think of it as any home convection vaporizer system like Dabuddha. The potentiometer varies the voltage applied to the heater element. Since it is instant on / instant off variables such as how warm the device is, draw speed, draw length, load pressure drop, all will change the temperature slightly given the same power. Thus the reason everyone needs to find their own spot on the dial and develop their own repeatable technique.
 

HD Springer

Well-Known Member
Temp control\Power control. To the nubs that just grip shit and rip it ,so long as it adds or subtracts heat i'm not sure it matters what its called.I understand that people want to know the exact terminology and the actual methods.If it raises or lowers said heat thats what matters to myself.
 

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
Temp control\Power control. To the nubs that just grip shit and rip it ,so long as it adds or subtracts heat i'm not sure it matters what its called.I understand that people want to know the exact terminology and the actual methods.If it raises or lowers said heat thats what matters to myself.

It doesn't matter to you, but it does to lots of people. The distinction is important because people naturally assume that a temperature control sets a temperature and the device will try to maintain it. This requires a temperature sensor and a logic chip to cycle the heater. The Zion has none of that and works completely differently. See the explanation by @RastaBuddhaTao in the post right before yours.
 

HD Springer

Well-Known Member
I wasn't disputing your correction of @k on the proper terminology,I was just mentioning that "temp control knob" instead of "power control knob" lets people know that your not referring to the fire button.Even more important though I was just having some fun.I Know that gets in the way of stuff.
 

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
I wasn't disputing your correction of @k on the proper terminology,I was just mentioning that "temp control knob" instead of "power control knob" lets people know that your not referring to the fire button.Even more important though I was just having some fun.I Know that gets in the way of stuff.
To avoid confusion let's call it the voltage control knob as that is more accurately what it does. Does anyone if the Firefly is temp controlled with a feedback loop?
 
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mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
To avoid confusion let's call it the voltage control knob as that is more accurately what it does. Does anyone if the Firefly is temp controlled with a feedback loop?

It has a timed heat cycle. You hold down the button, and it runs through a timed. 30-second heat cycle arc that is always the same, no matter how hot or cold the unit is. Unless you release the button mid-cycle, of course, in which case the heat cycle halts...and then starts at the beginning again when you re-press the heat button.
 

RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Thanks @mitchgo61 ...and there is like a 10 - 12 second warm-up time? Does it reach a Steady state temperature or does it reach a peak and then drop off?

We are considering a similar timeout feature as a safety mechanism. The Zion is insulated extremely well with the wood body which is great for the user. However, if the fire button is depressed for minutes at a time with the voltage knob turned up it can get 600 - 700 degrees in the heat chamber. Eventually the body can get hot and if drawn on in this condition will scorch a load.
 
Thanks @mitchgo61 ...and there is like a 10 - 12 second warm-up time? Does it reach a Steady state temperature or does it reach a peak and then drop off?

Here's a shot of the card that came with my Firefly that might answer your questions. Sorry for the poor quality. Should have taken the time to set proper lighting.

6ZncHyf.jpg
 

grokit

well-worn member
It has a timed heat cycle. You hold down the button, and it runs through a timed. 30-second heat cycle arc that is always the same, no matter how hot or cold the unit is. Unless you release the button mid-cycle, of course, in which case the heat cycle halts...and then starts at the beginning again when you re-press the heat button.
I believe the ff's heat cycle is also thermostatically controlled, not completely positive though.

edit: I see it's been covered :tup:
 

HD Springer

Well-Known Member
The ff reaches peak temp. then starts to fade a bit.you can toggle the switch to keep the temp at max level.Which is exactly what the Dude's graff shows.Damn I mean after all the Dude abides man,the Dude abides...........man.
 

mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
Thanks @mitchgo61 ...and there is like a 10 - 12 second warm-up time? Does it reach a Steady state temperature or does it reach a peak and then drop off?
.

Yes, as has been noted, it takes about 4 seconds to start to glow, then very quickly reaches its peak heat temp, then trails off. You can literally watch the orange glow dim during the cycle. The bottom red line of that chart is how I've observed it working...the FF appears to hit max temp and then flatten out for the back half of the cycle (as HD says above).

I believe the ff's heat cycle is also thermostatically controlled, not completely positive though.

edit: I see it's been covered :tup:

Though that chart references "room temperature", I've never noted it making much difference, with the exception that a cold FF takes a hit or two longer to really start coaxing big vapor. This isn't due to the coil acting differently but rather a reflection of taking longer to heat up colder air. (In other words, I don't believe the heating element knows or cares what the ambient temps are...it just runs through its usual cycle, heats to whatever temp it's calibrated to heat to, and the exigencies of vaping in colder or warmer temps then exert themselves, having nothing to do with the FF's functionality.)

I'm like the biggest FF fan on the planet, and even I think that chart contains a bit of "promo-speak". At best it somewhat overcomplicates, or overstates, the way the FF heat cycle actually operates.
 
I'm like the biggest FF fan on the planet, and even I think that chart contains a bit of "promo-speak". At best it somewhat overcomplicates, or overstates, the way the FF heat cycle actually operates.

See also claim that the battery will last for 4-5 sessions. I get one most typically. Every great now and then, I will somehow get two sessions. It's the biggest weakness the Fly has, I think. Well, that and it just doesn't work well for multiple users. It's definitely a personal vape rather than one to share.
 
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thekarmawhore

Well-Known Member
@thekarmawhore that 3d rendering with the side button not sticking out looks pretty slick indeed, will it be like that in the final design?
I hope you got the same plan for the temp knob, stop making us wait and let us know! :D

Hey K, good Q!.

I believe the first 100 will have the recessed side button, and a partially recessed knob that will stick out about 1/4".

The production unit may have the knob closer to flush, or not. It's an unknown at this time, we first need to make some prototypes of the knob designs and see which ones work best. It can't just look cool, it has to have a nice functional tactile feel or people will hate it. That's why the first knobs will stick out, the knob is off the shelf and it's a tried and true form factor for us.

The 3d PDF which will be available from the RBT website shortly shows both units, the first 100 unit in an "in use" condition, and the "concept" production unit all buttoned up. I tossed a lighter in there too, for scale.


your pal,
thekarmawhore
 

mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
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