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Vapman

Melting Pot

Sick & Twisted
I am more than happy to do what I can however possible as long as I am not stepping on anyone's toes nor overstepping my bounds, thats not what I a about nor what I feel comfortable doing. I am always open to any ideas and more than eager to be a part of where ever I can be helpful!
Totally what I meant ,when I said uncomfortable with it.
Is why I asked @vapman his thoughts to take it out of our hands and open the door for everyone.
Nothing but respect for you and you're craft (functional art) You are very high on the shelf I would never want t offend u @Ed's TnT
I consider you a friend.
Me want everyone happy happy happy !!!
 

natural farmer

Well-Known Member
The Gold on this bowl doesn't look chipped to me just stained, If you can get a product where you live like the "Mr Clean Magic Eraser" I bet it will clean up like new.

EDIT: and the bowl would still be safe to vape out of with no gold, copper is safe at these temps.

Magic Eraser did the trick alright. Thanks bro! Bowl is clean as new again but a little whitish… I wonder how thin the gold layer is. Is it off yet or not? For cleaning the middle section, could I also use ISO or only ethanol is appropriate? And since you guys think it's safe, I will go along for the time. I wish Rene would chime in as well though… :)

EDIT: @OF how about titanium?
 

RUDE BOY

Space is the Place
When the Gold is gone the bowl will be "copper" colored not a lighter gold, I'd say your overthinking things here.

They say to only clean the middle section with acetone and not to ever use ISO or ethanol on wood.

after months of use and a few ounces of bud and 1/4 oz of wax I can't see any good reason to even remove and clean the SS screen nevermind soaking the entire middle in acetone yet.
 

Ed's TnT

Woodsman
Manufacturer
Totally what I meant ,when I said uncomfortable with it.
Is why I asked @vapman his thoughts to take it out of our hands and open the door for everyone.
Nothing but respect for you and you're craft (functional art) You are very high on the shelf I would never want t offend u @Ed's TnT
I consider you a friend.
Me want everyone happy happy happy !!!

As I for you my friend! You are and have been for a long time up on my shelf bro, you are a stand up guy!
 

VegNVape

Increase the Peace
Company Rep
Nothing but respect for you and you're craft (functional art) You are very high on the shelf I would never want t offend u @Ed's TnT
I consider you a friend.
Me want everyone happy happy happy !!!
As I for you my friend! You are and have been for a long time up on my shelf bro, you are a stand up guy!

Seriously, come on guys, lets hug it out! :)

Man I love this thread!!!

Vapman rules :rockon:

:peace:
 

OF

Well-Known Member
EDIT: @OF how about titanium?

Better than SS I think, not as good a Copper WRT conduction? And, also very important to us "specific heat" (how many calories it takes to raise the mass a degree) favors Copper strongly I think. We store the needed heat in the pan and need to get it quickly and in volume for the hit. Not an easy task, although VM is so elegant in such details it looks simple, doesn't it?

MFLB has some of that 'serious engineering you don't see right off' flavor as well I think. Cera and some of the TV stuff as well. Top materials and techniques to solve complex problems with a few, simple parts of the 'right' material.

I think @M0J0 just grabbed my butt.

Was it good for you too?

OF
 

Melting Pot

Sick & Twisted
I'm kinda confused I'm new to vaping combustion free almost a year anyway's.​
Nano huge clouds awesome effects.
Vapman huge clouds even more awesome effects. That must be that magic!!!!
Need to gain more control with torch towards the end of session. This little vape is kicking my ass!
Must be the diff between conduction vs convection
 

OF

Well-Known Member
Must be the diff between conduction vs convection

Howdy. Glad you're enjoying vaping and your VM. I think the differences you're looking at have to do with temperature (specifically control if it, a 'by the seat of your pants' deal with VM, a learned skill).

That is it's the temperature you're working at, not 'conduction vs convection' or any other technique you used to get to that temperature. Heat the herb to that temperature for that time and you get those results no matter how you heated it?

Still, who really cares if the results are right?

OF
 

Melting Pot

Sick & Twisted
Howdy. Glad you're enjoying vaping and your VM. I think the differences you're looking at have to do with temperature (specifically control if it, a 'by the seat of your pants' deal with VM, a learned skill).

That is it's the temperature you're working at, not 'conduction vs convection' or any other technique you used to get to that temperature. Heat the herb to that temperature for that time and you get those results no matter how you heated it?

Still, who really cares if the results are right?

OF
I'm trying to ride her easy not scorch load. But end of sesh a little over zelus with torch.
Haven't combusted yet that's a wonderful thin thing!!!
 

M0J0

I am a leaf on the wind ~ watch how I soar...
When the Gold is gone the bowl will be "copper" colored not a lighter gold, I'd say your overthinking things here.

They say to only clean the middle section with acetone and not to ever use ISO or ethanol on wood.

after months of use and a few ounces of bud and 1/4 oz of wax I can't see any good reason to even remove and clean the SS screen nevermind soaking the entire middle in acetone yet.
If I remember correctly, @vapman once told me that to gold plate copper, you need a barrier layer of nickel so that the copper doesn't react (doesn't diffuse into the gold layer), so maybe you've sanded off the gold enough that you can now see the nickel below.

He has also posted here that the bowl, or crucible, as @steama calls it - nice Alchemical term... Works perfectly fine without the gold layer. So I wouldn't worry about it.

If you remember my post some pages back of a comparison of my 1st vapman's bowl - which I sanded off all the gold - with a brand new one, you'll see the nickel color peeking through the gold...

I like the idea of the magic eraser! I have to try that...

Here's the post:

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vapman.94/page-91#post-747727
 

OF

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to ride her easy not scorch load. But end of sesh a little over zelus with torch.
Haven't combusted yet that's a wonderful thin thing!!!

For most, the heavy 'couch lock' parts come at higher temperatures. Often completely missing with some vapes (with good temperature control, set low) so 'the heavy stuff' stays in the ABV.

I think, in general, most guys are too shy with the heat with VM. I suggest intentionally trying it 'outside your comfort zone (hotter than normal) if for no other reason than to find out about combustion. It's not fatal you know, and much easier to stay on the 'safe side' if you know where the line is?

"Don't be too shy with the heat" is good advice for VM I think.

OF
 

natural farmer

Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly, @vapman once told me that to gold plate copper, you need a barrier layer of nickel so that the copper doesn't react (doesn't diffuse into the gold layer), so maybe you've sanded off the gold enough that you can now see the nickel below.

He has also posted here that the bowl, or crucible, as @steama calls it - nice Alchemical term... Works perfectly fine without the gold layer. So I wouldn't worry about it.

If you remember my post some pages back of a comparison of my 1st vapman's bowl - which I sanded off all the gold - with a brand new one, you'll see the nickel color peeking through the gold...

I like the idea of the magic eraser! I have to try that...

Here's the post:

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vapman.94/page-91#post-747727

Thanks pal! Now it feels a little better as I don't think I have gone that deep myself... My crucible is not that whitish yet and I guess it's because I haven't sand it down. Just some brush and magic eraser scrubbing!
BUT... My Vapi is not the first one to be engraved after all, right? :cry: :p
 

vapman

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
OK, so I just got a little worried and I hope someone calms me down about this… So my seasoning apparently doesn't hold that well on copper/gold and while I was brushing the bowl with ISO on a small painting brush the black coating started to go and what was under it is what I would call a completely flaked off bowl. I guess I have heated too much but hash and oil needed it to get some results so…

jPypyHp.jpg


What worried me most is this fragment from an article online (http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-copper-oxide.htm):

"Copper(II) Oxide
Occurrence, Production and Properties

This compound — also known as cupric oxide (CuO) — occurs naturally as the black or grey mineral tenorite. Like Cu2O, it can be made by heating copper, but at a lower temperature. This method gives an impure form, however, and it is best prepared by heating some oxygen-containing copper compounds, such as the carbonate, hydroxide, or nitrate. It is a black solid that melts above 2192°F (1200°C). At this temperature, it loses some oxygen, leaving small amounts of copper(I) oxide. Like the other form, copper(II) oxide is insoluble in most solvents, but reacts with acids, forming salts.

Health Effects
Although copper is an essential element for mammals, many of its compounds, including both forms of copper oxide, are toxic in all but small doses. If inhaled, copper(I) oxide can cause shortness of breath, coughing, and damage to the respiratory tract. Swallowing this compound can cause irritation of the gastrointestinal tract, vomiting, stomach pain, and diarrhea. Copper(II) oxide can cause similar symptoms if swallowed, as well as vision problems and skin discoloration. Both compounds can cause metal fume fever, a condition that produces flu-like symptoms and is a hazard in occupations that involve strong heating of copper structures or wire."

Can this be a problem for me? :uhoh: There sure is black powder after I torch it in order to get read of the gunk after a bowl of the wax. I get rid of it I guess after the ISO brushing and if some is left it's in minute quantities but still… Is copper safe to be inhaled when heated up?

And also did I destroy my Vapi already? :huh:

EDIT: Can I have a Ti bowl in my Vapman with a hard ceramic middle section please?? It shouldn't be that hard, right??? :whoa:

@natural farmer You are by far not the first user coming up with the fear about copper and copper oxide. Here are the facts:

Copper is along with tin, the metal used for the longest time by mankind, we are talking about 10`000 years!! That makes even the redwoods looking small.

Copper is a very important and vital element for all plants and animals including humans.

Copper is and was always widly used in our daily lives. The best chef cooks actually cook in copper pans, swiss cheese is made in huge copper bowls, jewelry, electric wires, hot water tubes…..

Copper oxide can`t be inhaled, it simply does`t exist in gaseous forms! Therefore it is not possible, even if you try, to get any copper oxide out of the bowl from vapman!

To get toxicated from copper oxide you have to actually eat it, in fact you have to eat more than 0.04 grams daily! To get this amount of copper oxide you would have to get the bowl oxidized on purpose, scrape off the oxide and eat it. With one layer of oxide you would still be far away from 0.04 grams meaning you would have to do it several times a day!

After being used so intensively for over 10`000 years, have you ever thought about why it is so damn hard to find any cases of copper intoxications? I was searching for days through internet about this topic and could not really find any specific cases. Do you know anybody ever having a problem with copper, or do you know anybody who knows anybody having an issue with it. I don`t.
Yes, copper oxide is toxic (so are a lot of things) but there is definitely a hype about it which is way out of proportion to the actual risk.

I am actually using copper BECAUSE it is safe and been tested for such a long time. Do you think any of the new materials we are using these days (also on vaporizers) are safe after being used for only few years or months?

The copper bowl of vapman is coated with gold for aesthetic reason only, it prevents the discoloration of the surface and has absolutely nothing to do with safety. Between the gold layer and the copper, there is a very thin layer of zinc to prevent the gold from diffusing into the copper, this is why the bowl looks like steel when scraping or sanding off the gold layer. Also zinc is no problem, metals don`t have any emissions at these low temperatures.

Regarding the middle section: Only wood works, anything else gets hot or is toxic (plastic).

If you want to make sure not to inhale any toxic substances when vaporizing, you should avoid over heating by any means, over heating botanical substances results in the production of toxic by products similar when smoking. This also applies when cooking food, overheating is never a good thing. Vaporizing at lower temperatures is the healthiest way to vaporize, regardless what vaporizer you are using.:nod:

I got to go now, I will answer the other posts later on. Thank you.:)


vapman
 

natural farmer

Well-Known Member
@natural farmer You are by far not the first user coming up with the fear about copper and copper oxide. Here are the facts:

Copper is along with tin, the metal used for the longest time by mankind, we are talking about 10`000 years!! That makes even the redwoods looking small.

Copper is a very important and vital element for all plants and animals including humans.

Copper is and was always widly used in our daily lives. The best chef cooks actually cook in copper pans, swiss cheese is made in huge copper bowls, jewelry, electric wires, hot water tubes…..

Copper oxide can`t be inhaled, it simply does`t exist in gaseous forms! Therefore it is not possible, even if you try, to get any copper oxide out of the bowl from vapman!

To get toxicated from copper oxide you have to actually eat it, in fact you have to eat more than 0.04 grams daily! To get this amount of copper oxide you would have to get the bowl oxidized on purpose, scrape off the oxide and eat it. With one layer of oxide you would still be far away from 0.04 grams meaning you would have to do it several times a day!

After being used so intensively for over 10`000 years, have you ever thought about why it is so damn hard to find any cases of copper intoxications? I was searching for days through internet about this topic and could not really find any specific cases. Do you know anybody ever having a problem with copper, or do you know anybody who knows anybody having an issue with it. I don`t.
Yes, copper oxide is toxic (so are a lot of things) but there is definitely a hype about it which is way out of proportion to the actual risk.

I am actually using copper BECAUSE it is safe and been tested for such a long time. Do you think any of the new materials we are using these days (also on vaporizers) are safe after being used for only few years or months?

The copper bowl of vapman is coated with gold for aesthetic reason only, it prevents the discoloration of the surface and has absolutely nothing to do with safety. Between the gold layer and the copper, there is a very thin layer of zinc to prevent the gold from diffusing into the copper, this is why the bowl looks like steel when scraping or sanding off the gold layer. Also zinc is no problem, metals don`t have any emissions at these low temperatures.

Regarding the middle section: Only wood works, anything else gets hot or is toxic (plastic).

If you want to make sure not to inhale any toxic substances when vaporizing, you should avoid over heating by any means, over heating botanical substances results in the production of toxic by products similar when smoking. This also applies when cooking food, overheating is never a good thing. Vaporizing at lower temperatures is the healthiest way to vaporize, regardless what vaporizer you are using.:nod:

I got to go now, I will answer the other posts later on. Thank you.:)


vapman

Well, that pretty much explains everything there was in my mind… :) Thank you very much Rene for your time and knowledge! :nod: And the rest of the guys as well of course!!! ;)

I am cleaning up that mess of a wax right now, it went through winterization during the night dissolved in ISO (don't have ethanol...) and now I am evaporating over a bain marie. I hope I am not doing anything wrong and I hope I will have something nice in the end to put through my Vapi today.. :D

EDIT: I nominate that post by Rene to go in the "best of" (why is there no best of yet?) vapman thread of course. I don't think it has been explained so thoroughly in this thread yet! ;)
 
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natural farmer

Well-Known Member
That stinky wax did clean enough and when I dissolved it in ISO I also put a little reclaim I had from my grinder and a Crafty cooling unit and now after the whole procedure it's become a super sticky dark honey paste that doesn't leave traces on the baking paper and is a much sweeter vaping experience! I am starting to give more heat to my precious now and draw slower so it doesn't burn the throat so much and I am getting really nice results! Quite potent hits alright!!!

I also luckily had the parts available and made a WA to mate it with a cracked but still usable j-hook I had in a box… :science: The position of the Vapman is better for concentrates that melt I think as the oil doesn't drip on the screen and eventually inside the middle section. With a slight move of the wrist you can go from draw position to heat position or even do both at the same time. Cooler heats and harder draws this way! :tup:

bQZ7nFb.jpg
 

M0J0

I am a leaf on the wind ~ watch how I soar...
Thanks pal! Now it feels a little better as I don't think I have gone that deep myself... My crucible is not that whitish yet and I guess it's because I haven't sand it down. Just some brush and magic eraser scrubbing!
BUT... My Vapi is not the first one to be engraved after all, right? :cry: :p
Yes, that is the very first one ever engraved. I even have a video of the engraving being done (although that doesn't prove anything, it looks cool).

I engraved my first vapman much later, to see how the engraving would look an an all-charred (Dark Chocolate) vapman. And I wanted to test the gold filling in the engraving as well, which I didn't like that much afterwards, but could not remove it...

That is my test vapman, which is why I sanded it's crucible too - poor guy. But he still works perfectly fine even after all my torture. I love that one, because it was my first, and the first ever charred vapman too! Way before I came up with two-toning. I have another Two-toned and tattooed Pear vapman and I always have a hard time deciding which one to use, because my heart is with the first one.

I think I'm going to sell the two-tone Pear used (which looks like new still), because I'd rather use the Chocolate one. Then maybe get me a two-toned tattooed Walnut for myself to then fret about which one to use. haha.

We'll see.

EDIT: @natural farmer, that Adapter looks really good!
 
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