SamuraiSam
Extraction Technician
I'm so glad I've been growing a forest of bamboo. I can't wait to learn how to make charcoal for my Okin.
Discontinued The Okin by D.M. Pipes
- Thread starter Stu
- Start date
-
- Tags
- charcoal powered okin portable
Just check the diameter! That's the most critical part, go start hunting for the optimal size and cut it down to start drying it!
VAPEHUNTER
Well-Known Member
@smokum
Back on page 12 Dan said ↓
@SamuraiSam Here are the charcoal making instructions posted on Pg.16 from The Man himself. Let us know how the charcoal turns out.
Happy Vaping!!!
What the ?!!? when did this come aboutI've been 'in for the win' since DAY ONE and never read THAT
Back on page 12 Dan said ↓
@SamuraiSam Here are the charcoal making instructions posted on Pg.16 from The Man himself. Let us know how the charcoal turns out.
So I decided to do some more extensive testing on 1" length charcoals. Usually I make them 1/2".
I wanted to bring you guys along for the process, and give you an idea of how you could make your own charcoals!
I used bamboo that you could get at any garden store. I used a 5 foot long piece of cane, which will produce about fifty 1" charcoals. Price for a 5 foot length of cane is generally around 50 cents - 1 dollar.
I cut these with my bandsaw, but you could use a cheap fine-toothed handsaw.
The bamboo segments were placed into a candy tin, any sturdy tin with a good lid will work well. Holes have been punched into the top to let gases escape (very important, or the top will pop off!).
I tossed it into my fireplace, and let it heat up slowly. You'll see steam and volatile gases start to escape.
Next, the escaping gases will ignite as the tin is pushed further into the fire. Here you see the steady jet flame that is produced, it sounds like a jet too! it's important to not let this happen too quickly as the pressure may pop the top off. These gases are generally referred to as "wood gas". Some people even use wood gas to run gasoline engines!
As the gases start to taper off, the tin should be pushed into the hottest part of the fire. You can monitor the escaping gases by looking at the flame produced near the punched holes in the tin.
The tin needs to get red hot, the best charcoal is produced at 700-1000 °C (1292 - 1832 °F). At this carbonization temperature the fixed carbon content of the charcoal will be between 92-93 percent. This is way higher than most commercially available charcoal. This also means that the volatile content will be around 2-3%, extremely low. The remainder is made up of ash (mostly calcium).
A BBQ or hookah charcoal (coconut husk), especially the cheaper brands and compressed bricks will have a fixed carbon content of around 50-80%, with the remainder being mostly volatile mater. This volatile mater is what gives lower quality charcoal it's bad smell.
The only other charcoal on the market (that I know of) that is comparable to my bamboo charcoal is Binchōtan, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binchōtan
This is why you can't compare the taste, smell, or emissions between normal charcoal, and properly made bamboo charcoal.
Here, you see that the volatile gases have all escaped, and there is no more flame near the punched holes. The steel is bright red/orange, indicating a temperature above 700 °C inside the tin (probably close to 900 °C). I leave it in the coals for a few minutes before taking it out to let the tin cool off.
The tin must be cool to the touch before opening the lid. If the lid is opened at any time during the process, oxygen will get to the bamboo charcoals and they will start to burn.
Here is the finished charcoal, the carbonization process took about 10-15 minutes for a tin this size. The yield was 50 charcoals.
Since these are twice the length of the usual 1/2" charcoals, they are taking up much more space, but even still I am able to fit about 35 charcoals into the prototype case. Looks sweet! These charcoals are quite hard, they have a high pitched sound when you hit them. You could make wind chimes out of this stuff!
I'm not sure why there are deep vibrant blue on some of these charcoals... I assume it's some sort of thin oxide layer. They look exactly like the oxides produced on polished steel when it's heated, though.. to much lower temperatures than that used in this context. hmmm.
Happy Vaping!!!
I have found optimal bamboo segments to be: 10-12mm in diameter, 1" in length, I am using Tonkin because it has thick walls.
These measurements are taken when the cane is dry. If drying your own, you should experiment with drying segments that are a bit larger in diameter, in case the cane shrinks when it dries.
When you convert this dry cane to charcoal, it will shrink again to the correct size. The finished length will be somewhere around 3/4".
Side note, I've been carrying the case around in my jeans pocket for a few days while I work around the cottage, lets of sawing and moving and lifting etc, so it's getting a good test. I always forget it's there, and at the end of the day, the contents inside are exactly how I left them. So far so good!
These measurements are taken when the cane is dry. If drying your own, you should experiment with drying segments that are a bit larger in diameter, in case the cane shrinks when it dries.
When you convert this dry cane to charcoal, it will shrink again to the correct size. The finished length will be somewhere around 3/4".
Side note, I've been carrying the case around in my jeans pocket for a few days while I work around the cottage, lets of sawing and moving and lifting etc, so it's getting a good test. I always forget it's there, and at the end of the day, the contents inside are exactly how I left them. So far so good!
ANOKHI
Blow that shit out!!
@Dan Morrison does that include the herbal section? Will that come out all over when carried around? Especially if it's ground fine?
That includes the herbal section as pictured in my last photo update of the box. Right now I have it filled with fairly finely ground tobacco, same stuff that is in those photos.
I will probably make a thicker kraft paper lid for the herb section of the box as well. Initially, I just made those inner paper boxes to see how it looked, but after using it for a while, I really like how they function!
For the Okin, you don't wan't it too finely ground anyhow, or it will restrict airflow between the herb particles. I would say that a medium grind is best.
ANOKHI
Blow that shit out!!
@Dan Morrison glad to know. Thank you.
Herb falling through the cracks of the lid was a concern of mine as well. I recently started keeping ground herb in little pill capsules, as they hold the perfect amount for one bowl. I keep some capsules with different herbs, such as peppermint and damiana, all together in a little jar so I can mix and match on the go. I'll probably use this same strategy with the Okin.
I was thinking that this would be a better way to do it as well. Though I have found that the paper box herb container is adequate and doesn't spill, it lets the herbs/tobacco dry out too much, and obviously odor may be a concern with this method as well
An airtight capsule or separate canister would be more practical.
Also, I have been intensely researching the health concerns of this design lately, but, just as I had previously found, there is just no way to know how healthful this method of vaporization is, compared to smoking or electronic vaporization. There have been studies done for things related to this, but nothing closely matches the use characteristics or the specific composition of bamboo charcoal.
Studies conducted on hookah smoking devices cannot be used as an accurate point of comparison, mainly due to vast differences between a hookah session and an Okin session. Further research indicates that the inaccuracy of the testing apparatus used in the majority of these studies renders the results even more useless.
Benzene is a known emission from charcoal, though significantly less benzene is released from charcoal that is of high fixed carbon content (bamboo charcoal being among the highest at 92% fixed carbon content). The Benzene is also in cannabis smoke and high temperature vapor as well.
The good thing is that with bamboo charcoal, we are dealing with the combustion of carbon only, vs. the burning of cannabis where you are dealing with the byproducts of combusting an organic solid.
But, there still exists a question as to exactly where the bamboo charcoal vaporization methods sits, between smoking cannabis and electronic vaporization.
Likely it would be impossible to know the health risks without a long term study involving many participants. So that is simply not feasible.
The benefits of vaporization are still present. But the inhalation of charcoal combustion emissions should be known as a possible health risk, albeit a lesser risk than smoking cannabis alone.
Thoughts?
Mister G
Deceptively Old Fart
I think as long as you are up front and honest about how you assess the risks, most owners would accept the tradeoff between the craftsmanship and experience benefits over potential health risks which to me sound minimal, but may not to those with respiratory conditions or similar health needs who may choose to opt out.
Last edited:
smokum
I am who I am and your approval isn't needed!
Place a *note* basically stating what you just have as a standard disclosure for those needing to be told the obvious...... with or without, I'm still in because I'm a big boy and realize that there is nothing safe in this world, regardless of what or whose influenced study hangs over anything towards my own decisions.
axakal
Well-Known Member
in today's world we're constantly surrounded with health damaging variables. many products don't even care to put a warning sticker on. to me the risk of inhaling a little bamboo combustion byproduct sound far less dangerous than sucking on a plastic device manufactured in China(not trying to diss the whole country's manufacturing ethics, but given that even in "1st world countries" there are so many loopholes, that are sometimes willingly exploited in the name of profit, i'd assume the health concerns of the end user don't neccessary play the most important role in the big picture). so yes, the okin maybe not 100% safe, but what is? you're doing your research and something tells me, you're not stoping here and will digg deeper in your efforts to find out more. in the meantime a fair warning is a good start and then it's up to everyone to decide what he/she wants. the okin causes probably by far less harm than a common joint. and there is stilll an option for water filtration to further reduce the risks. owning an array of vaporizers and juggling them is a solution too. hello VAS. 
a question aside, does bamboo charcol actually burn smokeless?
a question aside, does bamboo charcol actually burn smokeless?
Health issues with this device are definitely not a concern of mine. It seems a lot of the backlash from your latest reddit post came from people having a misunderstanding of how this device actually works. It's great to see that you're taking these concerns seriously and doing the necessary research to find the answers though.
Bamboo charcoal is indeed smokeless. The smell of any charcoal can be attributed to residual Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) that have not been evaporated out during the carbonization process. To produce a cleaner burning charcoal, you want the mass to be of a higher percentage of carbon, and a lower percentage of VOCs. The remainder of the mass is the ash content, which is made up of non-combustable minerals.
Carbonization at 700c produces a charcoal that is 92% carbon, with 3% VOCs. Fresh bamboo has a fixed carbon content of around 20%, with the remainder being VOCs, water, ash. Also compare this to bamboo charcoal carbonized at 300c, with a VOC content of roughly 30%. (These numbers are from a single study, the only study I can find regarding the composition of bamboo charcoal).
Compare this to typical BBQ charcoal which has a VOC content in the 15-30% range. These numbers account for the faint smell of some mass produced charcoals.
It's clear that the emissions and combustion characteristics of charcoal vary wildly given the varience between charcoals made from different materials, using different processes.
I have found that if carbonized at too low of a temperature (300-500c), there is a detectible smell from the bamboo charcoals resulting from the presence of leftover VOCs. Conversely, bamboo carbonized at a high temperature (800-1000c) will have no smell, but will not burn as rapidly, will have much lower porosity, with no appreciable gains in fixed carbon content or significant decrease in residule VOCs. There is also a risk, at high temperatures, for the amorphous silica content of bamboo ash to change into a crystalline form of silica. Since the inhalation of crystalline silica is associated with lung desease in high exposure environments (Industries dealing with ceramic, quartz, sand etc), I thought it would be best to avoid any possible risks here. It should be noted that cannabis also has a high silica content. I have never read any data suggesting an association with smoking organic substances, and inhaling dangerous amounts of silica.
So, bamboo carbonized at 700c is the middle ground, where the best charcoal is made, no smoke, no smell, burns and lights readily, and has the highest porosity values.
Last edited:
I imagine that it would be easy enough to have a gas spectrometry reading taken from samples of your standardized processed charcoal. Anyway, no biggy here!
Madcap79
Jack of all trades, master of none.
mixchu69
Well-Known Member
Yea, something like that. I am not worried about it. This is when you got to put your trust in Dan (but of course some digging info is good for reassurance ). I am confident he will do what's best for his clients, his daily interactions with us show how much he cares. But please remember it's just an opinion, someone who is more medically sensitive prob needs more info.
While the consumption of charcoal, especially bamboo charcoal and active carbon, is known to be beneficial to health, It doesn't really correlate to the health effects of inhaling the combustion byproducts or the action of particles in the lungs vs. the gut. Though, the benign quality of the charcoal itself is obviously a point in favor.
I'm not too concerned about the potential health risks of the burning charcoal. It seems sure to be healthier than smoking the herb, and as such I have no problems with purchasing mine when it becomes available (any ideas on when that is BTW? 
). The beauty, craftsmanship, and uniqueness of the Okin far outweigh any small concerns I might have as to potential health risks. And besides, this vape is not likely to become my daily driver, it's more of a once in a while, enjoying the sunset, hanging out with friends kinda vape (to me anyway).
). The beauty, craftsmanship, and uniqueness of the Okin far outweigh any small concerns I might have as to potential health risks. And besides, this vape is not likely to become my daily driver, it's more of a once in a while, enjoying the sunset, hanging out with friends kinda vape (to me anyway).
Walter Bishop
Well-Known Member
I have to say, I'm really impressed with the aesthetics of the Okin. Everything from the device itself, to the packaging looks simply amazing.
It looks like an artifact from a parallel dimension. Where cars run on steam, everything is made of brass, and men still wear cool hats and goggles.
Gives me a tingle in the VAS. I'm thinking when this is available, I'm adding one to my collection.
It looks like an artifact from a parallel dimension. Where cars run on steam, everything is made of brass, and men still wear cool hats and goggles.
Gives me a tingle in the VAS. I'm thinking when this is available, I'm adding one to my collection.
Seasoned Senior
Well-Known Member
I just bought a cool hat to go with my Okin. Now all I need is the Okin.