next generation e-nails?

Detonator said:

hmm a slightly taller bowl,,, hmm I wonder what looks like that... maybe this??- http://www.sublimator.ca/product/atomizer/

oh I'm sure it would work... you in Nor Cal?.. come by we'll try it out...

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Thats more of less exactly what I have in mind. although youd still have to have a way to cause turbulence. The heater for the Submiminator does that with the way the holes are placed. You could easily accomplish the same thing with an enail setup. All it would really take is a machinist to make a new bottom for the dish that shoots the air out towards the sides instead of straight down.

I wish I was in Nor Cal.

there is nothing special in the way the holes come out of the bottom of the Sub.. they just have about 4-5 that come straight out, slightly indent like yer enail.. I'll take a pic of the sub bottom in a min.. The air may swirl but in the end the herb gets pulled into a lump on the bottom of the screen ,, the swirling air is not magic.. Its all stainless so its all hot, and stays hot, then hot air gets sucked through the herb...

PoopMachine said:

The Infiniti should work great. Put it in male configuration. It has a heck of a opening through the middle.



Youve got to cause turbulence in the bowl for that to happen and thats what Im working on. I have a couple of ideas.A slightly taller bowl with something suspended in the middle to cause turbulence would be the ticket. Maybe I can get my local guy to make something.

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I used the Infiniti nail and wasn't able to get it to work. What am I doing wrong

Detonator said:

there is nothing special in the way the holes come out of the bottom of the Sub.. they just have about 4-5 that come straight out, slightly indent like yer enail.. I'll take a pic of the sub bottom in a min.. The air may swirl but in the end the herb gets pulled into a lump on the bottom of the screen ,, the swirling air is not magic.. Its all stainless so its all hot, and stays hot, then hot air gets sucked through the herb...

Click to expand...

4-5 holes would cause turbulence. But the issue with that is that if you try to dab through it, its going to clog those holes up so thats not really the answer for us. We have to find a different way to create turbulence.

I also dab through those same holes air goes in or dab goes in... it kinda simple.. only difference is we turn up the temp when we are dabbing on the Sub.. We been using the sub for flowers , dabs , or double deckers for a while

I don't think its anything to do with turbulence... or swirling air

The glass that is holding the herb below the heat is not hot enough.. You need the entire thing to be hot ( thermal equilibrium ) then when you suck hot air through it will all be vaporized very quick...

Yeah, a decent part of the subs magic seems to me to be that the whole unit gets pretty damn hot.

You get conduction, convection, and radiation all doing their thing...

Carry on Sirs, I like where this thread is going

Hi, I got an "D-nail" from a company called GreenLight,

www.greenlightvapes.com

It work really well but I would like to know what is your favorite t° for low temp dab..?

Factory setting was 710 (too high for me), I set it to 630 and now I use 600...do you think I can set it lower?

I just started playing with this whole vaping herb with an enail thing, tucking a Vapexhale ELB in a male-female (extension) adapter underneath a MiniNail in female config. I notice that the temp has to be way up to start getting an effect.

I know the temp indicated on a PID display is "ballpark" at best, but I know with my nail set at 800F the air hitting the herbal material underneath isn't even hitting half that as I was just starting to get wisps.

The enail design of the unit I have is typical of the 16mm coils around a shank of Ti with a cup on top roughly the size of the large HE InfiniTi cup. It works quite well for low temp dabbing with a carb cap.

Hmmm.. Carb cap! Now, I know that the principle that makes a carb cap work is different, but still the temperature of the air is raised quite a bit because you're now forcing it along a constricted, longer channel alongside a heated surface. The carb cap heats up rather quickly, too, however this helps the heating effect even more.

Dropping a carb cap on top and then taking a long, steady draw, I notice the coils start to glow red. The mass of the carb cap is drawing heat from the cup that it's capping and now the PID is cranking up the duty cycle and putting some wattage into that Ti.

My eyes start to bug out.

Tfft! Pfft! Can't hold it! FWOOOOOOOOOHOLYSHITOOOOSH! A huuuuge cloud of Gasmask blows forth from just a pinch in the ELB! Sweet, sweet cherry with a deep, clean taste -- later examination revealing I must have put dark roast ground coffee instead of herb, but my thoughts were as hazy as the room at that point.


The air channels - they serve a purpose moreso than simple turbulence!


Ow! Damn that carb cap is hot! One idea may be to just leave the carb cap on without the attachment, but then no experimenting with simul-dabbing.. And I'm off to ECCC for the weekend, so no experimenting with rigging my SCS OmniNail (that has built-in channels!) until late next week Guess someone else will have to experiment on that and take all the credit

Detonator said:

there is nothing special in the way the holes come out of the bottom of the Sub.. they just have about 4-5 that come straight out, slightly indent like yer enail.. I'll take a pic of the sub bottom in a min.. The air may swirl but in the end the herb gets pulled into a lump on the bottom of the screen ,, the swirling air is not magic.. Its all stainless so its all hot, and stays hot, then hot air gets sucked through the herb...

Click to expand...

They claim vortex effect from holes. Replicate this with an enail?

PPN said:

Hi, I got an "D-nail" from a company called GreenLight,

www.greenlightvapes.com

It work really well but I would like to know what is your favorite t° for low temp dab..?

Factory setting was 710 (too high for me), I set it to 630 and now I use 600...do you think I can set it lower?

Click to expand...

Why not just set it lower and report back?

Been Vapin said:

They claim vortex effect from holes. Replicate this with an enail?

Click to expand...

So what we need... is someone to make a bottom for an enail where air exits in a similar fashion and fits in a Sub atomizer. I mean, why reinvent the wheel? Why Enrico hasnt done this is beyond me.

The only "off the shelf" nail that I know this could be done with based on the design is the Happy Daddy nail. Making a new screw on bottom for that that fits in the Sub atomizer wouldnt be too difficult if you had someone who could actually machine it.

Been Vapin said:

They claim vortex effect from holes. Replicate this with an enail?

Click to expand...

Ok maybe the air does swirl around in a vortex.. Well the inside is circular so it would make the air go around in a circle and I you could call that a vortex..


vor·tex
ˈvôrˌteks/
noun

1. 1.
   a mass of whirling fluid or air, especially a whirlpool or whirlwind.
   "we were caught in a vortex of water"
   synonyms: whirlwind, cyclone, whirlpool, gyre, maelstrom, eddy, swirl, spiral;
   black hole
   "a whirling vortex of smoke"
2. 2.
   something regarded as a whirling mass.
   "the vortex of existence"

---------------------

Yes the down stem is cone shaped maybe that helps the air swirl, and it big inside so all that hot air going into where the herb sits is then forced through the herb. But when you done hitting a load and dumb it out it is all sucked down into a lump on the screen at the bottom so tight you have to use a tool to slightly loosen it from the screeen so it will dump out. Hot air is being sucked through the material.. Maybe there is some swirling but if you look at a spent hit sitting in a lump, you wont think it did much swirling.

But if you go back and hear Enrico talk about the Sub in his first videos you will hear him say the same thing is important over and over - "Thermal Equalibrium" and that is why the big stainless atomizer needs to heat for a good 20-30 min before it will give you a full extraction hit.

I've been using my Sublimator for over a year.. If I accidentally leave the heater off attomizer and allow it to cool down for even 1-2 min I will make sure I wait before putting the next hit in.. If I don't it will not vaporize correctly. It need to get back to thermal equilibrium The entire thing needs to be heated up perfect..

On the other side of that coin. I use a watt meter and heat my Sub with exactly 34 watts for cannabis... What temp is that? - not sure but it is high temp vaping . Because if I turn it up to say 40 watts it is hotter and can combust herb.. So I know its very hot cause when you add a little more heat you will combust. I also use my sub for Dabs at 44 watts and if I forget to turn it down and wait for it to cool before going back to herb , it will combust the weed immediately.

I love my Sub , but I didn't like the controll box that broke and I had to replace even though my DIY setup is now way better than orig or the new upgraded xlr IMO..

I really like these enails and there sleek controll boxxes.. Now your about to make them do Sublimator like hits... I just think you need a metal attomizer / downstem w a screen.. Or something like it... hmmm wake, vaked and thinking hmmm

Maybe a small metal funnel? An old school metal downstem? no too small..

If you in Sacramento and trying to do this PM me.... you can come over and see if we can get your enail to vape herb on my Sublimator attomizer ... I'm almost certain it will work. I've met a FC member when I lived in the Bay area and it would be cool to meet more.

Unfortunately Im on the east coast.

I have zero issue buying the atomizer setup from Subliminator. No need to reinvent the wheel. All we need to make this work is a titanium adapter for an existing enail that will fit into the atomizer.

Someone recommended a member here that may be able to do this. I really think the Happy Daddy nail is the best one to use for this because its the only one that I know of that you can just unscrew the bottom, screw the adapter on to and go to town. The InfiniTI has the rod that runs through the middle so that would make it difficult to make an adapter for although maybe not.. youd just have to replace that threaded rod with a shorter one but if youre gonna do that, you might as well just make a piece that the disk screws on to. You could put the coil in the middle.

The Happy Daddy nail also does sublimation with the secondary chamber so once that guy gets heatsoaked, there's plenty of surface for hot air to pass over. Also, with this nail, I havent found capping it to make any difference for vaping flower.

I really think this is do-able. If someone else has access to a machinist that can fabricate the adapter, Id certainly be willing to help out any way I can to get this done. It may turn out to be a bunch of nothing or it may turn out to be the awesome sauce and this is kind of my thing. Ive brought quite a few oddball products like this to market (Although I have no intentions of selling this, Ive just worked developing things like this before)

What would be cool and completely do-able is a dual coil unit with a coil on the nail at the top and a coil on the atomizer. Could be complete overkill tho.. I know there are a few units that will do more than 1 coil and I know of one coming out that will do I think up to 48 coils.

PoopMachine said:

I really think this is do-able. If someone else has access to a machinist that can fabricate the adapter, Id certainly be willing to help out any way I can to get this done. It may turn out to be a bunch of nothing or it may turn out to be the awesome sauce.

Click to expand...

Might be worth contacting New-Vape to see if it's something they'd be interested in working on.

Monsoon said:

Might be worth contacting New-Vape to see if it's something they'd be interested in working on.

Click to expand...

Id prefer to keep this as a community project if we can... lower prices for us and I just sat down and drew this thing out.. it should actually be really easy for someone who can machine titanium and has an atomizer.

if a company gets in the mix, I see delay after delay and theyd just eventually end up selling it anyway. I also haven't found 420 companies to be especially receptive about new products from outsiders. If you guys have dealt with New Vape and know someone I can talk to there, Id certainly give them a ring, I just dont want to cold call them and sound like a nutcase.

it wouldn't have to be titanium,,, I think stainless steel would also work fine

Detonator said:

it wouldn't have to be titanium,,, I think stainless steel would also work fine

Click to expand...

At the temperatures we are working with, stainless probably wouldnt have a real long life span. It doesnt handle thermal expansion well over multiple periods of time. Be good for a prototype but I wouldnt want to use it as my primary piece.

PoopMachine said:

At the temperatures we are working with, stainless probably wouldnt have a real long life span. It doesnt handle thermal expansion well over multiple periods of time. Be good for a prototype but I wouldnt want to use it as my primary piece.

Click to expand...

I know there are a few machinists around here.
@mestizo

PoopMachine said:

Id prefer to keep this as a community project if we can... lower prices for us and I just sat down and drew this thing out.. it should actually be really easy for someone who can machine titanium and has an atomizer.

if a company gets in the mix, I see delay after delay and theyd just eventually end up selling it anyway. I also haven't found 420 companies to be especially receptive about new products from outsiders. If you guys have dealt with New Vape and know someone I can talk to there, Id certainly give them a ring, I just dont want to cold call them and sound like a nutcase.

Click to expand...

I think @BoogerMan has talked to them a bit, I only dealt with them briefly over the drop down issue.

Ive messaged a few people on here.. maybe we can get something going. I feel very confident we can make this work with a Sub atomizer and an adapter.

Monsoon said:

I think @BoogerMan has talked to them a bit, I only dealt with them briefly over the drop down issue.

Click to expand...

I can message New-Vape and see if they would be interested in making something like this.
Unless you still want to keep this a community project @PoopMachine

I usually speak with Edwyn (not sure if he is the owner, but he is a really nice guy). I can give you his email @PoopMachine

So do we want the gong adapter to be made of glass like the errlectric one or of titanium/SS like the Sub adapter is?

Seems like titanium may be the best bet?

I just like glass because you get to watch the herb vaporize, but if a titanium gong adapter will work better then I'm in for that.

The Sublimator UFO would be good to look at for inspiration. You could possibly mount a flat coil on top too if you can figure out a way to secure it.

Monsoon said:

The Sublimator UFO would be good to look at for inspiration. You could possibly mount a flat coil on top too if you can figure out a way to secure it.

Click to expand...

That actually is almost exactly like what we need. You could even spin that a couple of ways.

You could build up the shoulder some to accommodate a barrel coil or you could make it two piece to put a flat coil on it. That convinces me even more that this is completely do-able and that "plug" for the atomizer is pretty much exactly what I want to have made to screw into the bottom of the nail. I even sketched it out yesterday and its almost identical to the UFO. I didnt even know that thing existed.

Any of you guys have a UFO? I actually just thought of a way it might be able to made work "as is" with a little modification but Id need to know some measurements first.

@BoogerMan, If you've had dealings with them and you give them the thumbs up, thats good enough for me. Ive dealt with some other 420 vendors and its really soured me on the whole industry. Trying to get stuff done dealing with a bunch of potheads is not a lot of fun.

New Vape Is right up the road from me about 45 minutes.

After talking with my pops who also owns a Sub and a Sub enail... we agree that for flowers the attomizers mass , heat , and tiny attomizing hole at the bottom is why the Gas, Vapor, what ever you call it is so good.

If you could have something made that was like the UFO could hold a coil on the outside to get hot, then also was like a domeless nail on top then you'd have it all,,, ( UFO Dabmaster ) Maybe even make it so if the power went out you could remove the coil and just heat it with a torch...

Maybe it would just take some holes drilled through the top of the UFO to turn it into a domeless like nail top

I also want to see if I can stick a domeless nail in the top of the attomizer and heat it all up and get a sub hit with no electricity. I've seen video of Enrico using the sub with the UFO and it didn't seem too great but he also don't care too mch either sometimes.

I like where this thread is going, carry on.