The Grasshopper

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JiggyJack

JiggyJack

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"Let the creators create." I agreed with that until today.

They said "The very first units went out last week, and a lot more are on their way." There aren't a lot of ways to interpret that. Either they walked a bunch of boxes over to the post office or they didn't.

I don't understand why they would feel it necessary to start with "the check is in the mail" bull all of a sudden when they've had no problem with announcing one delay after another throughout.

You need another month to change the screen? Whatever, just say so. You need three more months because you have a Bar Mitzvah to go to? Fine, Mazel Tov. You need another year to go from SS and Ti to gold and platinum? Cool, great, what's another year?

At this point I feel good that whenever I get mine it's going to more than meet my needs but I don't think I want to hear anything else unless it's from a backer or preorder who actually has one in hand. (Okay, I'll read VW's full review after his weekend in Boulder but that's it, after that I'm done.)
 
Krazzykid

Krazzykid

Well-Known Member
JiggyJack said:
"Let the creators create." I agreed with that until today.

They said "The very first units went out last week, and a lot more are on their way." There aren't a lot of ways to interpret that. Either they walked a bunch of boxes over to the post office or they didn't.
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GH may have only mailed a few units out for all we know, perhaps only to a couple testers. Remember that at this point all they had to work with were very limited small test runs. They also had to hand modify the circuit boards in order to get them to work properly, if I remember correctly.

"The very first units went out" could mean as few as 2 and still be a completely accurate statement, just saying.

The people that received them could also be under contract to keep quiet until told otherwise?

Or the great possibility that they only mailed a few out and those made it to the hands of people that aren't members here. There are only 20,262 members here, right now anyways, and over 15 million people visit Indiegogo each month.

I have no inside information, and I'm not making excuses for them. I'm simply sharing other ways it could be interpreted.
 
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zymos

zymos

Well-Known Member
Just like many other suppositions in this thread- does anyone have any PROOF that they lied when they said they already shipped out some units?
 
zymos,
valleysquirrel

valleysquirrel

Well-Known Member
pakalolo said:
I'd just like to remind people that we have rules against company-bashing, and the repeated sarcastic skepticism from some of you are this )( close to breaking them.
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The doubtfulness is almost unbelievable eh?

zymos said:
Just like many other suppositions in this thread- does anyone have any PROOF that they lied when they said they already shipped out some units?
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They probably feel that way because most would be so stoked to have a unit that they'd let everybody know and we'd hear about it. Unless they're still in shipment?¿

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I think these replies should be merged right? Totally unintentional I replied to the first and the page refreshed with a new response :uhoh:

mod note: Yes.
 
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JiggyJack

JiggyJack

Well-Known Member
pakalolo said:
I'd just like to remind people that we have rules against company-bashing, and the repeated sarcastic skepticism from some of you are this )( close to breaking them.
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I'm new here so I hope you don't mean me. I don't think anything I said was company-bashing in nature. And while I can see that my Bar Mitzvah comment may come across as sarcastic it wasn't. I merely wished to covey that I would be happy to wait for whatever reason so long as the finished product was the best it could be but that I just wished the communication was clearer/better.

Perhaps I put too much stock in one persons initial comments/experience with this device (all that pent-up anticipation for some third-party I suppose). VW's messages on reddit certainly made it seem like there was contradiction between what was said in GH's latest communications to backers and preorderers and what was told to VW.

Krazzykid said:
"The very first units went out" could mean as few as 2 and still be a completely accurate statement, just saying.
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This is very true and my normal optimism was at a low point when I questioned if any shipped at all. I do wonder however if they are still talking about changes, like new screens (minor) and new temperature settings (major?), what that means for any units that have already shipped. And speaking of changing temperatures, that's actually kind of cool. Does that mean there is the possibility of having custom lower/higher temps?

"
[–]VaporizerWizardVaporizerWizard.com[S] 5 points 1 day ago

about temp 4 on the grasshopper. I'll take a photo of the manual tomorrow that includes the exact temps as for now. They might change temps before productions."
 
JiggyJack,
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DirtD1V3R

DirtD1V3R

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I am still optimistic about the gh. My only question is why bring a third party in to review a pre-production model?it seems to me that while this information from buzz/vw is informative it is not completely useful. If things are going to change between now and ship what's the point? Now on the other hand maybe the gh team only had the finished one's they were shipping and did not have a production model to give to buzz. Idk but like some others have said maybe those production models went to people close to the project or non-personal users aka retailers. If they did ship to retailers then they may have a hold date attached to those models. At the end of the day we know they exist. Yes the ig campaign make no promises to deliver and gh is under no obligation to deliver but things changed with pre-orders.
 
DirtD1V3R

DirtD1V3R

Well-Known Member
I completely agree and value what buzz has to say. My issue is with GH, if things change-dependent upon how much- it makes buzz's summation of the gh not completely invalid but somewhat because he is reviewing the pre-production model not the final product. And of course like I said it is all dependent upon how much the final product has changed.
 
Snappo

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
TheWhisper said:
One thing that I found interesting — in both a good and bad way — is that apparently they're still modifying things. @BuzzDanklin mentioned that they are planning to rework the screen to prevent clogging. This also means that the unit he received is still a pre-production one. (Also, they previously said they sent out the first batch of units, no? So a little confused about that).
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Reworking the screen to prevent clogging is not a major modification, nor should they necessarily have to delay initial shipping runs as a consequence of such a minor parts exchange (not really a modification). Further, we need not assume that the reviewer received a pre-production unit just because current or future production runs will feature the new screen update. Overall unit function should not have been impeded in any meaningful way that would alter the reviewer's impressions regarding performance, albeit maybe a slight concern for gunk buildup. The new screen may in fact be user exchangeable or covered under warranty, and/or a new screen may simply be factory supplied per request, no questions asked.
 
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DirtD1V3R

DirtD1V3R

Well-Known Member
Snappo said:
Reworking the screen to prevent clogging is not a major modification, nor do they necessarily have to delay shipping for initial shipping runs as a consequence of such a minor modification. Further, we need not assume that the reviewer received a pre-production unit just because current or future production runs will feature the new screen update. This may in fact be user exchangeable or covered under warranty, and/or a new screen may simply be factory supplied per request, no questions asked.
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That is a good point about the screen. What do you think about the temp change? I guess we don't know what they are doing with the temp change. I think either way I will be glad to own the gh. I am glad that someone else besides the gh team got hands on with the pen. I am just confused by them sometimes. It just worries me for them to be changing things this close to ship.
 
Snappo

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
DirtD1V3R said:
That is a good point about the screen. What do you think about the temp change? I guess we don't know what they are doing with the temp change. I think either way I will be glad to own the gh. I am glad that someone else besides the gh team got hands on with the pen. I am just confused by them sometimes. It just worries me for them to be changing things this close to ship.
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I think that any changes the GH team deems necessary at any stage of production (even post-production) should be considered welcomed changes as they are intended for the betterment of the device for even greater user satisfaction. This to me demonstrates a conscientious and dutiful commitment to excellence no matter what time it is.
 
lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
DirtD1V3R said:
I completely agree and value what buzz has to say.
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Not me but it's nothing against Buzz personally. Let me explain.

ANYONE, be it an FC member or not, who gets a free vaporizer from a manufacturer to review, be it a beta or a final production unit, is faced with a bit of a conflict. Do I report it as I see it without any regard to the fact that the manufacturer sent me a free unit? If I clearly point out it's faults, am I somehow being ungrateful to a company who not only sent me a free vaporizer but also trusted me enough to write a review? Would this review be just as brutally honest as it would be if I purchased the unit as any customer would do while at the same time, not having any relationship with the manufacturer other than a manufacturer/customer releationship?

There's a whole other mindset that comes into play when you spend your own hard-earned cash on a product versus getting a freebie from a manufacture and this difference does come into play when writing a review. It also comes into play if even if you paid for it but received preferential treatment because you are a reviewer. It's the relationship with the manufacture that comes into play here.

I know this because not only does it make sense strictly from a logical point of view but also because I have received free units to review myself and I know that when writing such a review, I am constantly thinking about how the manufacture will feel about it versus just writing a review on a product that I spent my money on and it's a struggle to not spin by overstating the positives while understating the negatives.

For me, I would trust a review more from someone who purchased the unit as an end consumer.

Just a thought. As I said, nothing personally against Buzz for this dynamic would hold true for anyone.

Edit: To the mods. I was thinking about posting this in it's own thread rather than here. If that is more appropriate, please feel free to move it but please provide a link to it here. Thanks.
 
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DirtD1V3R

DirtD1V3R

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lwien said:
Not me but it's nothing against Buzz personally. Let me explain.

ANYONE, be it an FC member or not, who gets a free vaporizer from a manufacturer to review, be it a beta or a final production unit, is faced with a bit of a conflict. Do I report it as I see it without any regard to the fact that the manufacturer sent me a free unit? If I clearly point out it's faults, am I somehow being ungrateful to a company who not only sent me a free vaporizer but also trusted me enough to write a review? Would this review be just as brutally honest as it would be if I purchased the unit as any customer would do while at the same time, not having any relationship with the manufacturer other than a manufacturer/customer releationship?

There's a whole other mindset that comes into play when you spend your own hard-earned cash on a product versus getting a freebie from a manufacture and this difference does come into play when writing a review. It also comes into play if even if you paid for it but received preferential treatment because you are a reviewer. It's the relationship with the manufacture that comes into play here.

I know this because not only does it make sense strictly from a logical point of view but also because I have received free units to review myself and I know that when writing such a review, I am constantly thinking about how the manufacture will feel about it versus just writing a review on a product that I spent my money on and that it's a struggle to not spin by overstating the positives while understating the negatives.

For me, I would trust a review more from someone who purchased the unit as an end consumer.

Just a thought. As I said, nothing personally against Buzz for this dynamic would hold true for anyone.
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While I do agree that there can be a conflict of interest when it comes to reviewing products that are gifted or reviewing a product that you have a personal relationship with, I also think that self preservation would win out. Imo. What I mean by that is if you have a reputation of being a reputable reviewer you do not want to lose credibility because you gave a positive review to a crap product. If you have a strong following it is not worth jeapordizing your base and your credibility aka revinue stream, to appease a manufacturer.
 
Snappo

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
lwien said:
Not me but it's nothing against Buzz personally. Let me explain.

ANYONE, be it an FC member or not, who gets a free vaporizer from a manufacturer to review, be it a beta or a final production unit, is faced with a bit of a conflict. Do I report it as I see it without any regard to the fact that the manufacturer sent me a free unit? If I clearly point out it's faults, am I somehow being ungrateful to a company who not only sent me a free vaporizer but also trusted me enough to write a review? Would this review be just as brutally honest as it would be if I purchased the unit as any customer would do while at the same time, not having any relationship with the manufacturer other than a manufacturer/customer releationship?

There's a whole other mindset that comes into play when you spend your own hard-earned cash on a product versus getting a freebie from a manufacture and this difference does come into play when writing a review. It also comes into play if even if you paid for it but received preferential treatment because you are a reviewer. It's the relationship with the manufacture that comes into play here.

I know this because not only does it make sense strictly from a logical point of view but also because I have received free units to review myself and I know that when writing such a review, I am constantly thinking about how the manufacture will feel about it versus just writing a review on a product that I spent my money on and that it's a struggle to not spin by overstating the positives while understating the negatives.

For me, I would trust a review more from someone who purchased the unit as an end consumer.

Just a thought. As I said, nothing personally against Buzz for this dynamic would hold true for anyone.

Edit: To the mods. I was thinking about posting this in it's own thread rather than here. If that is more appropriate, please feel free to move it but please provide a link to it here. Thanks.
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Even if taking this particular review with a grain of salt (and I always do with all reviews), I think it still comes out handily on the positive performance side - unless of course if the reviewer were really exaggerating his enjoyment of the experience and fudging the battery and load numbers, which I seriously doubt.
 
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lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
DirtD1V3R said:
While I do agree that there can be a conflict of interest when it comes to reviewing products that are gifted or reviewing a product that you have a personal relationship with, I also think that self preservation would win out. Imo. What I mean by that is if you have a reputation of being a reputable reviewer you do not want to lose credibility because you gave a positive review to a crap product. If you have a strong following it is not worth jeapordizing your base and your credibility aka revinue stream, to appease a manufacturer.
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I agree but it's not as blatant as giving a "positive review to a crap product", but rather a bit more subtle, like I said above, "spinning by overstating the positives while understating the negatives".

It's for this reason that I also give very little credence to any reviewer who owns a site that has links to on-line retailers, for there too, is a conflict of interests.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should agree with me on this. Just offering up a perspective.
 
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SmorezNTickles

SmorezNTickles

It's real.
Somewhere out there in a dark room, the GH team is reading these posts and crying over a notepad because they can't seem to satisfy everyone. I personally think the GH team is doing a great job trying to fix what we think is "wrong," and as @BuzzDanklin said, they are perfectionist so I don't question their loyalty to the product. Thanks @BuzzDanklin for the review provided and also for the future expanded version yet to come.
 
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