next generation e-nails?

I was thinking of doing something like this, though you could just be lazy and make it a separate unit, maybe just use something like this, remote control and timer in one:

http://www.amazon.com/NuGiant-34000-Wireless-Remote-Control/dp/B004C1Q8PO

The one nice thing about having a timer built in is that it could shut off only the SSR and not the PID, then you can watch as it cools...though I really don't think the circuit should be all that complicated as above. I guess it depends what kind of control the timer has, but even if it's a simple magnetic relay it should be fine, it's not going to be turning on/off constantly like the coil SSR, it'd just be passing through while the timer is on, and off when it's off...

Then again looking at those omrons, i'm thinking they might be a little too funky for what you're trying to do, I bet you could find something a little more to the purpose, especially cause it doesn't seem like those things have any way to be mounted to a case or anything? not sure how you would easily adjust or anything...unless it was just fixed or you glued it in there...i'm just wondering if there might be a better timer for the job that wouldn't be as complex and would have more of what you need already there for you...


something like this for example ,similar price, and if you weren't going to have a user-adustable time, this would be fine up to an hour:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-dela...206?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3393c8856e

You could just use an "always-on" momentary switch, so that pushing the switch would then turn off and back on the timer module, resetting the timer for another hour. That's assuming there's not already a place to put a regular momentary switch on there....not sure, there's a few variations i've found already.

it also seems some of the 1/16th size auber pid's have built in timer's, and it lets you wire up an external reset switch for the timer, so you could still have separate buttons to start/stop the timer...that would be an interesting idea right there as well...

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=239


haha, the more I dig around ebay, the more cool stuff I find...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Digital...178?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ede513b5a

i guess those are DC, so you might need one of these to wire em up:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-110V-220...943?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51c78ed657

New-Vape is releasing an all-in-one e-nail kit enclosed in an ammo box. Final version will apparently use blown glass instead of a jar.

http://www.newvape.com/2711/


I'm not really sure what to think of this. I like the concept but I'm not sure about the execution and it seems to be targeting a pretty narrow segment of e-nail market too. I could see it maybe being useful to keep in a shed or secret smoke spot outside, except that you need to plug it in. I see a lot of potential issues in terms of cleaning the airpath inside the unit, heat dissipation from the nail, ergonomics and weight. Also not sure if I'd feel comfortable having this go through Canadian Customs.

-----
Still no word from them on the redesigned drop-down, I'm not in a rush to get it but I'll email them soon to see where it's at. It got a bit clogged from 2 weeks of straight use, warm ISO soak alone didn't help and needed a lot of scraping and a few runs through the ultrasonic cleaner.

Monsoon said:

New-Vape is releasing an all-in-one e-nail kit enclosed in an ammo box. Final version will apparently use blown glass instead of a jar.

http://www.newvape.com/2711/

I'm not really sure what to think of this. I like the concept but I'm not sure about the execution and it seems to be targeting a pretty narrow segment of e-nail market too. I could see it maybe being useful to keep in a shed or secret smoke spot outside, except that you need to plug it in. I see a lot of potential issues in terms of cleaning the airpath inside the unit, heat dissipation from the nail, ergonomics and weight. Also not sure if I'd feel comfortable having this go through Canadian Customs.

-----
Still no word from them on the redesigned drop-down, I'm not in a rush to get it but I'll email them soon to see where it's at. It got a bit clogged from 2 weeks of straight use, warm ISO soak alone didn't help and needed a lot of scraping and a few runs through the ultrasonic cleaner.

Click to expand...

that is a mason jar rig right there!

calling worm and bates!

VoltageKeeper said:

hmm, looks like a 10mm coil bent up at the end.

I shouldn't even comment on the shape of that other piece, LOL. It's a cool idea though. I do have a nectar collector style rig, I was hoping to NOT have a reason to buy a 10mm coil...haha. I might have one now.

You know, I didn't even think of that. See for yourself:

The hive definitely has a larger center hole. The two pieces on the the top and right. The domeless which is on the left is the same width all the way through regardless, as the joint adapter goes around it, rather than inside of it. The hive narrows only at the top, but the hole in the narrow part is slightly bigger than the domeless, so if you wanted the best airflow, you'd probably want to consider the hive.

Click to expand...

VoltageKeeper said:

hmm, looks like a 10mm coil bent up at the end.

I shouldn't even comment on the shape of that other piece, LOL. It's a cool idea though. I do have a nectar collector style rig, I was hoping to NOT have a reason to buy a 10mm coil...haha. I might have one now.

You know, I didn't even think of that. See for yourself:

The hive definitely has a larger center hole. The two pieces on the the top and right. The domeless which is on the left is the same width all the way through regardless, as the joint adapter goes around it, rather than inside of it. The hive narrows only at the top, but the hole in the narrow part is slightly bigger than the domeless, so if you wanted the best airflow, you'd probably want to consider the hive.

Click to expand...

hi voltagekeeper,

Does the carb cap fit on the hive ceramic? I am thinking about buying another hive ceramic too, just in case there is another accident. I'm also looking for a Quartz enail and found kingofquartz for $75. Price seems to be in the middle of pukinbeagle and cheap eBay Quartz.

Does anyone have recommendations for a quality Quartz enail under $100? I don't want to buy $15 nails from eBay but want something that is thick and feels durable. I like the kingofquartz price point, but of course $50 will be better.

Edit: purchased the Quartz nail for my Dnail at dabfarm. In the past, I purchased their Daisy nail and it is quality (very thick and durable)

no, the hive is too wide to fit the domeless carb cap. I usually use a regular glass-style carb cap with it.

btw, regarding that portable nail that needs to be plugged in - I mentioned before briefly that I could potentially build a REAL, proper, battery powered nail that uses coils. However, I've had little to no interest up til now as the price point would be prohibitively expensive ($500-600+)

VoltageKeeper said:

no, the hive is too wide to fit the domeless carb cap. I usually use a regular glass-style carb cap with it.

btw, regarding that portable nail that needs to be plugged in - I mentioned before briefly that I could potentially build a REAL, proper, battery powered nail that uses coils. However, I've had little to no interest up til now as the price point would be prohibitively expensive ($500-600+)

Click to expand...

Thanks. Luckily, I still have my hive carb cap, only my enail took the dive.

so, after all that talk about fuzzy logic controllers, I found one on ebay that normally retails for $345 for about $60 and it's got the extra serial interface option which is the bonus...I still don't know if it will even have any of the mounting brackets or heck, even work at all, but I guess we'll see when it gets here. If it works, it will be a cheap way to determine if fuzzy logic has any tangible benefit to enail applications.

Whether most people will actually want to pay the extra cost for such a thing is another story still, although the notion that we could do it with arduino instead is looking pretty strong, so, this will be a good way to test out the concept now before digging too much deeper into that...

VoltageKeeper said:

so, after all that talk about fuzzy logic controllers, I found one on ebay that normally retails for $345 for about $60 and it's got the extra serial interface option which is the bonus...I still don't know if it will even have any of the mounting brackets or heck, even work at all, but I guess we'll see when it gets here. If it works, it will be a cheap way to determine if fuzzy logic has any tangible benefit to enail applications.

Whether most people will actually want to pay the extra cost for such a thing is another story still, although the notion that we could do it with arduino instead is looking pretty strong, so, this will be a good way to test out the concept now before digging too much deeper into that...

Click to expand...

That's the same price point for an omron controller in bulk, so the retail market would welcome it at least if it works as well. With a fuzzy logic unit, how is it simpler? Is it simply more elegant (better) math or does it also equate to less user input required for calibration etc?

which omron controller are you referring that's $345 retail? the e5cc's seem to be available for cheap $50-60ish, new, all over, regardless of the supposed retail price...but I have not found any e5gc's for cheap, those are all $200+ new. I have started to wonder if the cheap e5cc's everywhere are clones or something. afaik, neither of those two omrons I just mentioned are fuzzy logic though. There are some omrons that are fuzzy but I bet you've probably never seen them used in an enail before, and most of them are huge.

the one I got was $60 used, and it's clearly used. I don't even know if it will come with the brackets or anything. there is no huge discount on these, I doubt my supplier would be able to get me them much cheaper, they got it listed 342, and the one without serial is 234...

I don't know if I'd say it's simpler, a pure fuzzy logic algorithm is slightly easier to understand than a PID algorithm, it's more like a big conditional statement than a giant pile of calculus curves. The controller I got is both a PID and fuzzy logic, and the fuzzy logic is applied as a correction factor on top of the PID control. Needless to say, I'm sure there are any number of differing algorithms you can use, and whether it provides any tangible benefit at all is still to be determined at this point, but I will try to get something proof of concept built as soon as it arrives.

VoltageKeeper said:

which omron controller are you referring that's $345 retail? the e5cc's seem to be available for cheap $50-60ish, new, all over, regardless of the supposed retail price...but I have not found any e5gc's for cheap, those are all $200+ new. I have started to wonder if the cheap e5cc's everywhere are clones or something. afaik, neither of those two omrons I just mentioned are fuzzy logic though. There are some omrons that are fuzzy but I bet you've probably never seen them used in an enail before, and most of them are huge.

the one I got was $60 used, and it's clearly used. I don't even know if it will come with the brackets or anything. there is no huge discount on these, I doubt my supplier would be able to get me them much cheaper, they got it listed 342, and the one without serial is 234...

I don't know if I'd say it's simpler, a pure fuzzy logic algorithm is slightly easier to understand than a PID algorithm, it's more like a big conditional statement than a giant pile of calculus curves. The controller I got is both a PID and fuzzy logic, and the fuzzy logic is applied as a correction factor on top of the PID control. Needless to say, I'm sure there are any number of differing algorithms you can use, and whether it provides any tangible benefit at all is still to be determined at this point, but I will try to get something proof of concept built as soon as it arrives.

Click to expand...

I think the fuzzy logic feature could be best used to prevent the coil from glowing red. Yet still maintaining temperature. Thus increasing coil longevity. My Errlectric enail never glows red. They claim to be something different than standard PID.
They call it "soft heat" technology.

Hi guys,

I have a newb questions on enails. Since I wanted to start cheap and buy from a reputable name, I bought the analog 1.2 Dnail with 20mm heater coil. It cost me a lil over $130, without the hive nail and cap (which doubled the price). Since I don't have a digital readout, I want to get the temperature of the nail surface. Are the laser guns that measure heat pretty accurate? I just want to find a few sweet spots on the analog dial so I don't have to constantly check.

If people have tried the laser device that measures heat ($20 on Amazon), what should the temperature be on the surface of the ceramic nail for a low temp dab and a regular dab?

I see that a lot of people use 700 on their digital enails, but what is the actual temperature of the nail surface? Thanks for helping a newb.

Edit: hi diehard,
How often do use your w9 products and how often do u use errelectric?

mixchu69 said:

Hi guys,


Edit: hi diehard,
How often do use your w9 products and how often do u use errelectric?

Click to expand...

i use both every day. I use the Errlectric at home and mostly the W9 gear out and about. Except the Bender and Nibbler xL, they both are home use. The Core lives in me car in case of battery issues. My omicron is also in the travel kit as a back up. I was never a Scout but I'm always prepared!

mixchu69 said:

Hi guys,

I have a newb questions on enails. Since I wanted to start cheap and buy from a reputable name, I bought the analog 1.2 Dnail with 20mm heater coil. It cost me a lil over $130, without the hive nail and cap (which doubled the price). Since I don't have a digital readout, I want to get the temperature of the nail surface. Are the laser guns that measure heat pretty accurate? I just want to find a few sweet spots on the analog dial so I don't have to constantly check.

If people have tried the laser device that measures heat ($20 on Amazon), what should the temperature be on the surface of the ceramic nail for a low temp dab and a regular dab?

I see that a lot of people use 700 on their digital enails, but what is the actual temperature of the nail surface? Thanks for helping a newb.

Edit: hi diehard,
How often do use your w9 products and how often do u use errelectric?

Click to expand...

Forget the IR laser thermometer. I have noticed they don't read metal surfaces well. I get cooler temps using the IR gun compared to my k type thermometer when reading a hot titanium nail or my extraction chamber. For example on my extraction chamber it reads 78 (my room temp, so I am thinking it reflects off the shiny metal surface and is reading the counter top) and my k type thermometer reads 108. Maybe someone can explain why or what I'm doing wrong? Does the IR reflect off metal which would cause it to read whatever surface the reflection lands on? Or does IR not reflect off shiny surfaces?

I haven't tested the IR gun on my ceramic nail yet and I'm out of town for a week but im sure someone else can confirm if it works on ceramic well. But I run my domeless.com ceramic nail with 20mm coil at 680-700 F.

Here is the IR gun I have $16.
BAFX Products Non Contact Infrared (IR) Thermometer Range of -58F to 1,022F Includes Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006V4WNYU/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Gr0-ub07M6DK3
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006V4WNYU/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Gr0-ub07M6DK3

I like this thermometer below much better. You can put the little probe on any part of the nail or coil and get a very accurate temp. It's also only $20.

Signstek 3 1/2 6802 II Dual Channel Digital Thermometer with 2 K-Type Thermocouple Sensor Probe for BGA rework HVAC 1300°C 2372°F Signstek http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FFYEPVQ/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_9m0-ub1CA2VVX
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FFYEPVQ/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_9m0-ub1CA2VVX

You can get nicer rod probes for it too for around $6.
80mm x 3mm Probe K Type 0-500C Temperature Range Coiled Thermocouple 1.5M https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AFXIOIM/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Ap0-ub1RT9R05
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AFXIOIM/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Ap0-ub1RT9R05

BoogerMan said:

Forget the IR laser thermometer. I have noticed they don't read metal surfaces well. I get cooler temps using the IR gun compared to my k type thermometer when reading a hot titanium nail or my extraction chamber. For example on my extraction chamber it reads 78 (my room temp, so I am thinking it reflects off the shiny metal surface and is reading the counter top) and my k type thermometer reads 108. Maybe someone can explain why or what I'm doing wrong? Does the IR reflect off metal which would cause it to read whatever surface the reflection lands on? Or does IR not reflect off shiny surfaces?

I haven't tested the IR gun on my ceramic nail yet and I'm out of town for a week but im sure someone else can confirm if it works on ceramic well. But I run my domeless.com ceramic nail with 20mm coil at 680-700 F.

Click to expand...

Have you tried to use the IR gun with this setting?
When you use the IR gun normally, it shoots out the laser that reflects against your nails resulting in a bad reading. With that specific setting (don't know the name), it doesn't shoot out a laser and reads temp pretty accurately in my experience

Aaron said:

Have you tried to use the IR gun with this setting?

When you use the IR gun normally, it shoots out the laser that reflects against your nails resulting in a bad reading. With that specific setting (don't know the name), it doesn't shoot out a laser and reads temp pretty accurately in my experience

Click to expand...

I have tried it with and without the laser. Both have the same results IIRC. From my understanding, the laser is just a guide to show you where the IR beam is hitting. The IR beam is what actually measures the temp, not the laser pointer. Please some correct me if I am wrong!

BoogerMan said:

I have tried it with and without the laser. Both have the same results IIRC. From my understanding, the laser is just a guide to show you where the IR beam is hitting. The IR beam is what actually measures the temp, not the laser pointer. Please some correct me if I am wrong!

Click to expand...

So I checked the manual and it's just a laser pointer setting. When I measure my e-nail nail with the laser on, I range from 300 to around 390. With the laser setting off, I get 500-575. My e-nail is set to 675 degrees so I think thats pretty accurate. I heard somewhere (possibly from d-nail) that your nail dish temp will read about 100+- less than the actual thermocouple temp on the coil.

Also I was messing around with the IR laser gun with the laser setting on and I got a few 500+ degree readings by only having the bottom tip of the laser touching the nail head. Basically the top 3/4 of the laser was pointed at my table and the bottom 1/4 of it was on my nail head. Something you can mess around with later

Aaron said:

So I checked the manual and it's just a laser pointer setting. When I measure my e-nail nail with the laser on, I range from 300 to around 390. With the laser setting off, I get 500-575. My e-nail is set to 675 degrees so I think thats pretty accurate. I heard somewhere (possibly from d-nail) that your nail dish temp will read about 100+- less than the actual thermocouple temp on the coil.

Also I was messing around with the IR laser gun with the laser setting on and I got a few 500+ degree readings by only having the bottom tip of the laser touching the nail head. Basically the top 3/4 of the laser was pointed at my table and the bottom 1/4 of it was on my nail head. Something you can mess around with later

Click to expand...

I bought a $30 IR laser thermometer to help with my dabbing and I found the laser to miss the mark as well. I think the cheaper ones do not have an adjustment for emissivity. If I put the laser above or in front of the dish, it would read the nail. I had better luck with the Thermocouple that came with my Fluke Meter.

Titanium has a low emissivity (.06-.19) and those cheap IR thermometers are set default to something like .95 which would be better for reading things like your skin temp. I'm pretty sure most of them can't be changed. I have a Fluke IR that can be adjusted and I've tested it at different settings and it absolutely makes a difference in the readings.

DieHard said:

I bought a $30 IR laser thermometer to help with my dabbing and I found the laser to miss the mark as well. I think the cheaper ones do not have an adjustment for emissivity. If I put the laser above or in front of the dish, it would read the nail. I had better luck with the Thermocouple that came with my Fluke Meter.

Click to expand...

Does your $30 one have an adjustment for emissivity? I just noticed the one I posted from Amazon for $16 has an upgrade option for adjustable emissivity feature and it is only $20.

But how does the adjustable emissivity work or help? Do you adjust this setting based on what type of material you are trying to read the heat from? So metal would be a lower (or higher) emissivity setting compared to say plastic?

Damn, bought the domeless 20 mm ceramic enail and my Dnail heater coil won't sit. Does anyone know if the Dnail 20mm heater coil is larger than average? I'm a newb at all of this. Before my hive broke from a fall, I tried cheaper with domeless because I love their carb cap idea. I'm not sure if they sent me the wrong size or I need to alter my setup? Appreciate any advice.

BoogerMan said:

Does your $30 one have an adjustment for emissivity? I just noticed the one I posted from Amazon for $16 has an upgrade option for adjustable emissivity feature and it is only $20.

But how does the adjustable emissivity work or help? Do you adjust this setting based on what type of material you are trying to read the heat from? So metal would be a lower (or higher) emissivity setting compared to say plastic?

Click to expand...

Mine does not have that adjustment. I never really had consistently repeatable results on such a tiny target. I relegated it to the tool box. I got tired of inconsistent hits and torching. Ended up buying an enail

Sorry made a mistake. It's only for flat nail heaters. Please ignore or delete last post.

ColoVaper said:

Titanium has a low emissivity (.06-.19) and those cheap IR thermometers are set default to something like .95 which would be better for reading things like your skin temp. I'm pretty sure most of them can't be changed. I have a Fluke IR that can be adjusted and I've tested it at different settings and it absolutely makes a difference in the readings.

Click to expand...

Thanks! That's the info I was looking for.

Here is the $20 one with adjustable emissivity:
BAFX Products® - Non Contact - Infrared (IR) Thermometer W/ Adjustable Emissivity (-58F - +1,022F) - W/ Pointer Sight - BATTERY INCLUDED https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NFPJ7ZQ/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Y8h.ub0VF4FJK
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NFPJ7ZQ/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Y8h.ub0VF4FJK

mixchu69 said:

Damn, bought the domeless 20 mm ceramic enail and my Dnail heater coil won't sit. Does anyone know if the Dnail 20mm heater coil is larger than average? I'm a newb at all of this. Before my hive broke from a fall, I tried cheaper with domeless because I love their carb cap idea. I'm not sure if they sent me the wrong size or I need to alter my setup? Appreciate any advice.

Click to expand...

@mixchu69 The standard domeless.com ceramic nail is set up for use with flat coils. However, you can definitely use the domeless.com ceramic nail with a 16mm or 20mm coil, you just have to buy the barrel attachment.

It looks like Darid (the owner of domeless) redesigned thier website and isn't selling this attachment anymore? Shoot him an email through the domeless website and ask if he still has some. Also ask if they fit the dnail coil. If you send him the height of the coil I'm sure he could tell you if it would work with the barrel attachment.

I don't have a dnail coil but from my understanding the coil is bigger (height wise) than most other coils (Chinese specifically). From pictures of dnail coils I've seen it seems like the coil wraps are thicker than the Chinese coils which is where the larger height of the dnail coil comes from. Here is where I got that info from.

New-Vape designs their domeless enails using a dnail coil. The barrel height on the 16 hole 20mm enail I got from them is much larger than the height of my 20mm gimido coil.

Here is a pic to explain what I mean. You can see the gap between the top of my coil and the bottom of the enail head.



Companies like domeless.com, TiTen, etc. designed thier enails using a 20mm coil from gimido or a similar source because my gimido coil fits perfectly on these brands of enails. See below:

BoogerMan said:

Thanks! That's the info I was looking for.

Here is the $20 one with adjustable emissivity:
BAFX Products® - Non Contact - Infrared (IR) Thermometer W/ Adjustable Emissivity (-58F - +1,022F) - W/ Pointer Sight - BATTERY INCLUDED https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NFPJ7ZQ/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Y8h.ub0VF4FJK
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NFPJ7ZQ/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Y8h.ub0VF4FJK



@mixchu69 The standard domeless.com ceramic nail is set up for use with flat coils. However, you can definitely use the domeless.com ceramic nail with a 16mm or 20mm coil, you just have to buy the barrel attachment.

It looks like Darid (the owner of domeless) redesigned thier website and isn't selling this attachment anymore? Shoot him an email through the domeless website and ask if he still has some. Also ask if they fit the dnail coil. If you send him the height of the coil I'm sure he could tell you if it would work with the barrel attachment.

I don't have a dnail coil but from my understanding the coil is bigger (height wise) than most other coils (Chinese specifically). From pictures of dnail coils I've seen it seems like the coil wraps are thicker than the Chinese coils which is where the larger height of the dnail coil comes from. Here is where I got that info from.

New-Vape designs their domeless enails using a dnail coil. The barrel height on the 16 hole 20mm enail I got from them is much larger than the height of my 20mm gimido coil.

Here is a pic to explain what I mean. You can see the gap between the top of my coil and the bottom of the enail head.

Companies like domeless.com, TiTen, etc. designed thier enails using a 20mm coil from gimido or a similar source because my gimido coil fits perfectly on these brands of enails. See below:

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the good information. I will send them an email seeing if they have any barrel attachments. I like ceramic because you don't have to season. And you can torch your nail til it looks new.

I bought a Quartz enail:

http://dabfarm.bigcartel.com/product/ebosstm-xl-quartz-nail-carb-cap-dabber

I got it because they sent me a coupon for 25% off. It looks good quality (I bought their Daisy Quartz nail and it is a beauty). I know I have to season and keep this low quality budder to season all my Quartz. I tried my Quartz without seasoning and it is very unpleasant.

anyone know where to get the same quartz nail from gimido? since it says it fits 20mm coils im pretty interested. or atleast a cheap male 18mm quartz enail.