Maybe a first? Subcritical CO2 oil flavored with actual fruit and berries?

ChippyMalone

ChippyMalone

Be here now.
Accessory Maker
So last week I got to try a new brand of CO2 oil that was significantly cheaper than anything I'd had before. It is made with a subcritical process rather than a supercritical process. The short explanation is that this process does leave behind a few more cellular impurities, but at $35/gram instead of $50 or more, it's a bargain, especially since it is fantastic and perhaps better flavored than the supercritical.

Well, anyway, I went back for more today, and was given a test sample of a prototype formulation in which actual blueberries were put in with the cannabis during the extraction to create a naturally flavored blueberry hash oil.

The natural berry flavor when vaped through the E-Nano is intense, perhaps more intense than necessary or desired for the long term, but I can definitely say that I have enjoyed the novelty of it even if it would probably not be a regular thing for me.

There are some extract companies that add terpenes like the limonene from citrus peels into their extracts, expecially in pre-filled disposable cartridges. Although the one I tried with limonene certainly had a distinct citrus flavor, it was very one dimensional compared to the whole berry extract.

Now, I have no idea if there is or could be any useful additional medical benefit to flavoring hash oil with natural fruit, but I do applaud the ingenuity of some people willing to try something silly.

Edit: I use a spotlessly clean GonG for concentrates, but the dirty flowers one ended up in the photo.

15pBQKa.jpg
 
ChippyMalone

ChippyMalone

Be here now.
Accessory Maker
Mr. Gweilo 420 said:
God bless America :)
Click to expand...
Not quite all of America. We did have to apply for political asylum when I became a Bible Belt MMJ refugee in Washington state.

But yes. God bless the Panama Red, White Widow, and Blue Dream because I'm seeing stars spangled all over the place!


Trying to explain how this works to my wife and I found this infographic that shows the ingredients of a raw blueberry as if it was a formulated food product. While this is fictitious and was created to make a point about how everything we eat is made from chemicals with scary sounding names, it works great to explain which sorts of ingredients are separated from the plant matter during extraction. Basically, everything listed as "flavors" would be the sort of aromatic organic molecules that would be extracted right along with the THC/CBD/ETC.

Neat-O. But I still think they need to back down on the berry flavor by perhaps an order of magnitude.

blueberrieswildfoodism.jpg
 
Last edited:
CG420

CG420

Over the horizon u can see the edges of the Earth
Right now I have some of The Herbsmith's Tangie and Grapefruit Kush solventless and it's amazing how they both hit so strong yet tasty. Thinking about trying out some HGH solventless just to see what they're all about.
 
ChippyMalone

ChippyMalone

Be here now.
Accessory Maker
I'm quite positive that BHO is now no longer a Connoisseur grade extraction process that will soon only exist in prohibition States.

Someone wanna lend me $30K for a 1500cc reactor?
 
Bouldorado

Bouldorado

Well-Known Member
ChippyMalone said:
I'm quite positive that BHO is now no longer a Connoisseur grade extraction process that will soon only exist in prohibition States.

Someone wanna lend me $30K for a 1500cc reactor?
Click to expand...

Are you saying CO2 extracts will become preferred by concentrate connoisseurs?
 
Bouldorado,
ChippyMalone

ChippyMalone

Be here now.
Accessory Maker
Bouldorado said:
Are you saying CO2 extracts will become preferred by concentrate connoisseurs?
Click to expand...
Yes. Blasting butane through a turkey baster will end up only being done out of necessity where prohibition still exists a few years down the road.

Unless you are a cartel or have a very specialized career, the sort of Industrial and laboratory equipment necessary for CO2 just isn't accessible to even big dealers under prohibition.

Think Walter White's RV vs. His professional production facility. But the difference is that the CO2 extractor doesn't require a PhD in chemistry, just a good basic background in chemistry/biology, maybe even less than that.

And more and more people are now interested in all the other solventless hashes that preserve so much more of the non-cannabinoid molecules that give us our flavor profiles and such. I figure that BHO will still exist, but will be more like making drugs from over the counter medications in a backwoods trailer where prohibition stubbornly hangs on over the next few years.
 
Bouldorado

Bouldorado

Well-Known Member
The biggest barrier to obtaining a C02 extractor is capital. Here's the price list for Apeks extractors: http://www.apekssupercritical.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Pricelist.pdf Your $30k figure is not far off base (actually pretty close to the cheapest extractor from this company)

As Apeks is based in Ohio (a Prohibition state) you can obviously infer their extractors are intended for legal purposes. So they would certainly be affordable and available for large blackmarket dealers. However I agree with you that this would never happen without legal marijuana status (just too small a customer base without B&M stores)

You compare CO2 to open-blasted BHO, but realistically all the BHO you see in a dispensary is made with a Closed Loop System. Similar to a CO2 extractor, a CLS offers a lot more control over the extraction while allowing the butane to be reused. There's a much higher initial cost compared to open-blasting, but relative to CO2 extractors, a system can be had for 1/10th of the cost.

There's no question that top-shelf bubble/dry sift has and always will be the best connoisseur product. However when you compare the oils (CO2 to BHO) I'm not sure if one has a clear advantage.

This article (although high times) makes some good arguments for and against CO2. All the talk about terpene preservation and no residual solvents is pretty awesome until you get to the point about yield.

5-12%.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with BHO yields, but that CO2 return is pretty fucking awful. A nug run with BHO can easily return 20%+, and with certain strains, 30% is not unheard of. It also seems CO2 requires a lot more refinement to get BHO-like quality. So basically it takes more time to deliver less product (and you need more expensive infrastructure). It might be a higher quality product, but not according to the accountants. To maintain the same profit as BHO, you would need to charge twice as much per gram. If the BHO was selling for $40, you have to charge $80 or you're losing money.

I think if you want to encourage backyard open-blasting, there is no better way than restricting the market to $80 grams of oil.
 
Enchantre

Enchantre

Oil Painter
I think every extraction method - with perfect purging - has its place.

I've had a flavored bho stuff intended for using in vape pens, and it was HIDEOUS ( I still have it...), so the use of real fruit for flavor sounds good.. but, the barest hint would be enough, right?
 
Bouldorado

Bouldorado

Well-Known Member
Enchantre said:
I think every extraction method - with perfect purging - has its place.

I've had a flavored bho stuff intended for using in vape pens, and it was HIDEOUS ( I still have it...), so the use of real fruit for flavor sounds good.. but, the barest hint would be enough, right?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind trying some oil with added terpenes. However something about it just seems....off-putting. Like it's a pretty severe departure from natural cannabis. I realize BHO isn't exactly natural, but it takes components away from the cannabinoid profile, rather than creating entirely new ones with added terps.
 
Bouldorado,
  • Like
Reactions: Snappo
2clicker

2clicker

Observer
Bouldorado said:
I wouldn't mind trying some oil with added terpenes. However something about it just seems....off-putting. Like it's a pretty severe departure from natural cannabis. I realize BHO isn't exactly natural, but it takes components away from the cannabinoid profile, rather than creating entirely new ones with added terps.
Click to expand...

i agree that it would be interesting to try, but errl is plenty flavorful by itself if processed well.

adding natural fruit flavor sounds like a way to make trim runs taste/smell better than they are. seems almost fake.

however it could be more of pairing type of deal... sorta like food pairing with beer or wine. just another option i suppose.

i would love to try it tho!
 
ChippyMalone

ChippyMalone

Be here now.
Accessory Maker
Bouldorado said:
The biggest barrier to obtaining a C02 extractor is capital. Here's the price list for Apeks extractors: http://www.apekssupercritical.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Pricelist.pdf Your $30k figure is not far off base (actually pretty close to the cheapest extractor from this company)

As Apeks is based in Ohio (a Prohibition state) you can obviously infer their extractors are intended for legal purposes. So they would certainly be affordable and available for large blackmarket dealers. However I agree with you that this would never happen without legal marijuana status (just too small a customer base without B&M stores)

You compare CO2 to open-blasted BHO, but realistically all the BHO you see in a dispensary is made with a Closed Loop System. Similar to a CO2 extractor, a CLS offers a lot more control over the extraction while allowing the butane to be reused. There's a much higher initial cost compared to open-blasting, but relative to CO2 extractors, a system can be had for 1/10th of the cost.

There's no question that top-shelf bubble/dry sift has and always will be the best connoisseur product. However when you compare the oils (CO2 to BHO) I'm not sure if one has a clear advantage.

This article (although high times) makes some good arguments for and against CO2. All the talk about terpene preservation and no residual solvents is pretty awesome until you get to the point about yield.

5-12%.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with BHO yields, but that CO2 return is pretty fucking awful. A nug run with BHO can easily return 20%+, and with certain strains, 30% is not unheard of. It also seems CO2 requires a lot more refinement to get BHO-like quality. So basically it takes more time to deliver less product (and you need more expensive infrastructure). It might be a higher quality product, but not according to the accountants. To maintain the same profit as BHO, you would need to charge twice as much per gram. If the BHO was selling for $40, you have to charge $80 or you're losing money.

I think if you want to encourage backyard open-blasting, there is no better way than restricting the market to $80 grams of oil.
Click to expand...
Yes, my $30k figure was for a reconditioned unit from this company.

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone contributing to this thread. I'm enjoying this thoughtful discussion about high end extraction methods and the use of terpenes or other additives: possibly useful in some circumstances, clearly an interesting novelty, and a potential for abuse as adulterants to mask poor quality product or to even water down a product while making it appear fully potent at point of sale.

Great ideas and stuff that is only barely now being considered by weirdos on the cutting edge like us but will one day require legislation to ensure safe products that haven't been tampered with.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom