Vaporization temp not high enough to fully decarb?

So I was on another forum where people were discussing the merits of vaporization vs. smoking, and someone postulated that at the low(er) vaporization temps used that the THCa is not completely decarboxylated into THC and that is why the effect is more clear headed and not as heavy, even going so far as to say low temp dabs are similar.

I would think that if the temp is high enough to volatilize the cannabinoids to be inhaled, it is high enough for full decarboxylation?

If that were the case though (incomplete decarboxylization), would not a person be inhaling THCa from the heat running through a joint?

The carboxyl group (COOH) is the weakest bond on the cannabinoid acid molecules, and are easily accessed, since they are located at the end, so it doesn't take much heat energy to be decarboxylated overall. Even a good cure can decarboxylate a portion of the cannabinoid acids into their psychoactive counterparts. The vapourizing temps are more than enough, imo/e.

The clear headed high is more likely due more to the thc/cbn ratio in the vapour being larger (ie - more thc present) at the lower temps, as well as less of the other sedative compounds being present, since they tend to be thermally desorbed at the relatively higher temps. In addition, the extreme high temps of smoking create toxic compounds like benzene, toluene, xylenes, naphthalene, carbon monoxide and especially polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), which are deposited on all the extra particulates found with smoking, that are part of the "heavy" effects.

The extreme high temps of smoking not only decarboxylate completely, they pyrolyze all the organic materials, as well, imo.

nicelytoasted said:

The carboxyl group (COOH) is the weakest bond on the cannabinoid acid molecules, and are easily accessed, since they are located at the end, so it doesn't take much heat energy to be decarboxylated overall. Even a good cure can decarboxylate a portion of the cannabinoid acids into their psychoactive counterparts. The vapourizing temps are more than enough, imo/e.

The clear headed high is more likely due more to the thc/cbn ratio in the vapour being larger (ie - more thc present) at the lower temps, as well as less of the other sedative compounds being present, since they tend to be thermally desorbed at the relatively higher temps. In addition, the extreme high temps of smoking create toxic compounds like benzene, toluene, xylenes, naphthalene, carbon monoxide and especially polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), which are deposited on all the extra particulates found with smoking, that are part of the "heavy" effects.

The extreme high temps of smoking not only decarboxylate completely, they pyrolyze all the organic materials, as well, imo.

Click to expand...

Awesome description IMO ^^^, .

As you increase the temperature used to decarb, you are essentially also converting THC into CBN at a faster rate than you are at converting THCa into THC.

Along with the sedative effects of the smoke toxins, the feeling is quite different.

I am in agreement with you folks and I understand that decarboxylation is a function of temperature and time, and am aware of the russian decarboxylation study which graphs temperature vs time and degradation/conversion to CBN with THC topping out at 70%, then degradation/converting (I think that is the general idea). I have a few great strains around a year old or even older, and in fact have not bought any pot since early last summer since vaping uses so little. I am vaping about 1/5th of what I used to smoke.

I am a huge fan of low temp vaporization as part of a near nightly ritual to help wind down and get to sleep eventually. I know from my own personal experience I do get high or medicated from low temps. If I need some serious medicine fast I go straight to the high temps. 95% of the time I take my sweet time drawing vapor and savor it for as long as possible.

Unless you count a little wax pen, I have not combusted cannabis for nearly a year now. So you could say I am also a fan and would take vaporization any day over combustion. In fact last week I turned down a blunt a friend was smoking. Smoke is gross.

I think a lot of the heaviness might just be from the CO and other things created from combustion, but I had not considered the possible turnover to CBN.

I am not a member of that forum but do read it frequently and the guy who suggested people were inhaling THCa is generally incredibly bright. I was kind of surprised but in my mind I was wondering if my judgment was clouded (no pun intended) by my love of vaporization. I think people get too far set in their ways, possibly.

I just thought it was an interesting theory. Interested to hear more opinions and/or facts. Thanks for the input thus far. I just want to make sure I am viewing vaporization objectively. I hadn't considered that it would be possible for any THCa to be liberated from the plant via low temps, I was under the impression that if it volatilizes it has been decarboxylated, no matter the state of the cure. But even if it does, and I am inhaling THCa, that still has medicinal benefits I assume, but doesn't get you high? With the age of my material I don't have o worry about that very much since it's probably decarbed already, but I should probably be getting a few more strains to age.

Thanks again.

nicelytoasted said:

The carboxyl group (COOH) is the weakest bond on the cannabinoid acid molecules, and are easily accessed, since they are located at the end, so it doesn't take much heat energy to be decarboxylated overall. Even a good cure can decarboxylate a portion of the cannabinoid acids into their psychoactive counterparts. The vapourizing temps are more than enough, imo/e.

The clear headed high is more likely due more to the thc/cbn ratio in the vapour being larger (ie - more thc present) at the lower temps, as well as less of the other sedative compounds being present, since they tend to be thermally desorbed at the relatively higher temps. In addition, the extreme high temps of smoking create toxic compounds like benzene, toluene, xylenes, naphthalene, carbon monoxide and especially polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), which are deposited on all the extra particulates found with smoking, that are part of the "heavy" effects.

The extreme high temps of smoking not only decarboxylate completely, they pyrolyze all the organic materials, as well, imo.

Click to expand...

I wish I was as smart as you are. And no, I am not being sarcastic.

Is there any info out there confirming that THC-A can be vaporized whole, before losing its carboxylic acid chain, and becoming THC ?

I have always been of the assumption that this is purely impossible, since any consumable form, will decarb fully at temps WAAAAAAY lower than any vapor point.

Perhaps if the heat up time, was literally in nanoseconds, and could reach straight to 248.2'fahrenheit immediately and then never exceed it ?

Even then, what percentage of the material would decarb in nanoseconds, and how would surface area and barometric pressure factor in ?

I'm sure there must be some complex set of conditions which could deliver THC-A in an inhalable vapor, even if such would require a very elaborate setup.

Just my opinion, but I'd say the decarb chart is not linear on the time to decarb vs temp so there could be a tiny or minuscule amount of THC-A that gets vaped before it converts to THC. Example: vape at 330 F and almost all THC but some THC-A may not have decarbed yet.

Another reason why I wish there were more tests/ research as this would be easy for an experiment: analyze vapor completely for all the measurable elements/ is there any THC-A.

MinnBobber said:

Just my opinion, but I'd say the decarb chart is not linear on the time to decarb vs temp so there could be a tiny or minuscule amount of THC-A that gets vaped before it converts to THC. Example: vape at 330 F and almost all THC but some THC-A may not have decarbed yet.

Another reason why I wish there were more tests/ research as this would be easy for an experiment: analyze vapor completely for all the measurable elements/ is there any THC-A.

Click to expand...

Yes I look forward to these tests with baited breath.