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Vapman

mixchu69

Well-Known Member
2015-02-08205839_zps3e6784e0.jpg

:tup:

Check this beauty out from @Ed's TnT
Man, that looks nice. I checked out eds tnt website and could not find one for the vapman. Is that custom made for the vapman (or maybe it's another vaporizers wood piece). I have the ed's haze for 14mm from the haze website.
 

Ed's TnT

Woodsman
Manufacturer
Hello everyone and thanks for such quick interest in this piece! Its 14mm, I kinda wanted it to be this size so that it was near the OD of the wood piece it seats in. Being an 18mm would be much larger and might be kinda funky looking perhaps. Will look into and 18mm version when I get a little time to do so. Pls hang in there with me!
 

axakal

Well-Known Member
wow, really beautiful work Ed. will the piece be available on your site soon or is it just a one-off?

Hello everyone and thanks for such quick interest in this piece! Its 14mm, I kinda wanted it to be this size so that it was near the OD of the wood piece it seats in. Being an 18mm would be much larger and might be kinda funky looking perhaps. Will look into and 18mm version when I get a little time to do so. Pls hang in there with me!
 

Ed's TnT

Woodsman
Manufacturer
wow, really beautiful work Ed. will the piece be available on your site soon or is it just a one-off?

Hello and good morning, thank you for the kind words! I am pretty well slammed at the moment with so many things that need to be done, but do hope to have them available in a few weeks at my site. I would like to encourage you to hang in there with me and I will get some made as soon as I can!

@steama I believe you are right my man, blackwood will be a winner for sure for this piece! I was already thinking that! Got your piece all ready and I will put the chicken in the pot here shortly!
 

hoyo77

Well-Known Member
Hello and good morning, thank you for the kind words! I am pretty well slammed at the moment with so many things that need to be done, but do hope to have them available in a few weeks at my site. I would like to encourage you to hang in there with me and I will get some made as soon as I can!

@steama I believe you are right my man, blackwood will be a winner for sure for this piece! I was already thinking that! Got your piece all ready and I will put the chicken in the pot here shortly!
@Ed's TnT hey man keep up the good work and get better. We here at FC love and appreciate your good work. Next time i get home will definitely have to stop thru and visit. Hate we were not able to sync up last time i was home.

Got my shipping notice - I think, it's in Swiss German - looking forward to this.
Welcome to the family, i think you will love your purchase and with experience and patience you will find it more efficient than your e-nano!
 
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Beluga

Only you can prevent ganja fires.
Is there anything wrong with using a triple flame lighter with the Vapman? I ordered a lighter off of Amazon because the Vapman one I ordered is off in the nexus somewhere. I didn't realize I had ordered a tri-flame however. :doh:
 

axakal

Well-Known Member
tri-flame is way too much, unless you want to send your vapman to the afterlife really fast. chef burners also are off limits with this little guy. a good reliable single flame torch is your vapman's good friend.

Is there anything wrong with using a triple flame lighter with the Vapman? I ordered a lighter off of Amazon because the Vapman one I ordered is off in the nexus somewhere. I didn't realize I had ordered a tri-flame however. :doh:
 

Beluga

Only you can prevent ganja fires.
tri-flame is way too much, unless you want to send your vapman to the afterlife really fast. chef burners also are off limits with this little guy. a good reliable single flame torch is your vapman's good friend.

Damn, even a pocket sized one? I can make the flame around an inch in length but I don't want to use it if it'll damage the Vapman.
 

axakal

Well-Known Member
i wouldn't risk it. a negative outcome is almost inevitable. three flames at the size of an inch are a lot to handle, especially since you still would be learning the propper technique. i understand your urge to try the unit out, but you don't want to ruin it in the process, i suppose.

Damn, even a pocket sized one? I can make the flame around an inch in length but I don't want to use it if it'll damage the Vapman.
 

OF

Well-Known Member
Vapman and convection? Nah... Conduction and radiation, maybe... :)

Forget radiation. Radiation only works when the hot side is much hotter than the load. My money's on conduction.

Is there anything wrong with using a triple flame lighter with the Vapman? I ordered a lighter off of Amazon because the Vapman one I ordered is off in the nexus somewhere. I didn't realize I had ordered a tri-flame however. :doh:

Naw, save it for lighting stogies. You need to control the heat, and keep it focused on the center of the cone.....and triple flame lighters don't even have fire in the center.....

"Don't shoot a sparrow with a cannon".

OF
 

natural farmer

Well-Known Member
@OF will not be surprised that I respectfully disagree with this. My money's on some radiation. We need a bookie!:lol:

:peace:

I will insist on radiation as well. :)

Just like the MFLB or the Crafty or the Solo, the Vapman as well relies quite a lot on radiation. As one manufacturer pointed out recently but I don't remember who right now, herbs are a bad conductor of heat. The part of the load that usually is in contact with the hot oven walls is quite a small amount of the overall load, depending on the load and the oven shape of course. So heat probably doesn't get via conduction in the inner regions of the load but through radiation. I am not sure I understand why you say that about how radiation works. Look at all those radiation heating panels in the market. They just radiate heat to the environment. It's just like ovens work in our kitchens. Before the convection ones (and air circulation can still be stopped anytime in new ovens as well), ovens cooked our food through radiative heat. The food is not in contact with the oven walls. Is it? So is there any other way the heat might get to the food? This is how most of the conduction units work these days. Conduction yes, but a lot of radiation too. I am not an expert but this is what my personal logic says. I'd love some arguments... :)
 

OF

Well-Known Member
I will insist on radiation as well. :)

Look at all those radiation heating panels in the market. They just radiate heat to the environment. It's just like ovens work in our kitchens. Before the convection ones (and air circulation can still be stopped anytime in new ovens as well), ovens cooked our food through radiative heat.

OK, I get it it's a popular belief, but here's where I think it's flawed.

First off, consider those heating panels, how hot are they? Much hotter than the store, right? Likewise the oven, you need a couple hundred degrees difference to cook the food in normal times. Much more to broil (which is basically pure radiation, without the normal convection (hot air contacting the dinner)). Convection ovens capitalize on this (conduction/convection heating by hot air) to do the same work in less time at lower temperatures. In a vacuum (no hot air) that home oven would take much longer to cook the holiday turkey.

Now to the non intuitive arguments. Everything that's at all warm is radiating IR. It's basically trying to heat up the world that way. At the same time, the world is trying to heat it. You are comfortable in your clothes because while you're radiating heat out, your warm clothes return the favor in addition to trapping a layer of warm air. Likewise, the kitchen table eventually reaches 'room temperature'. Even in a vacuum (although there it takes much longer due to lack of air).

Second idea: Heat is different from temperature. One is calories (or Joules or BTUs) the other degrees (F or C, depending). Because of English, folks confuse 'heat' (energy transfer) with 'heat' (temperature). Heat (in the terms we want here) is the ability to change the temperature in the load. Transfer energy. Temperature is just a measure of the molecular level vibrations, usually eventually leading to melting as the solid structure breaks down and boiling after that as more and more energy is added. To form an analogy that might help, heat (energy transfer) is a flow, temperature a pressure? They are related by other factors, but are different things.

Still with me? Cool. Now for number 3. To make vapor takes energy. Usually a lot. For instance, with water it takes one calorie to raise a gram one degree C (the definition of calorie), about 4.2 Joules for those using the really fun units (the ones named after dead guys......). Say 300 J to raise that gram of water from room temperature to boiling? To evaporate a gram of it off (without changing the temperature of the gas vrs the liquid) takes over 2000 J. This is why "steam burns" are so bad. The steam isn't all that hot (temperature) but has a huge amount of heat (calories, or Joules) to give up as it condenses on your skin. It's also why swamp coolers work so well (evaporating off the water takes LOTS of heat out of the air doing so).

Now to try to pull together....... To make vapor we too need lots of energy. And to keep making vapor for the hit means we need a constant flow of energy that's quite large relative to heating either the load or vapor a few degrees. In VM that comes from the torch heating the copper. When we're making that vapor the copper is basically the same temperature as the bud and vapor (no burning) so the IR heat transfer from copper to load is nearly the same as the load to copper. Not a lot of calories moving into the load that way. Thermodynamics won't allow it (high rates of transfer). It's the need for constant net energy flow into the load and no 'delta T' (difference in temperature to drive it) that disqualifies IR as the prime process here. Yes, it helps MFLB get to temperature faster (when the screen is hot and the load cold) but it doesn't make more vapor, that has to depend on conduction like in VM. Notice how the load in VM is shallow? Lots of contact with the copper? I don't think that's an accident.

Finally it's a misnomer to call herb an insulator in vapes. Thermocouple measurements with Ascent show this is exactly what's happening through loads much deeper than VM. Remember, locally (within the load) you have hot air (and vapor itself) in the game too. There, like I believe as it is in VM, the bulk of the work (transferring the energy to make vapor) is by conduction.

That's my understanding anyway. It's not as simple as that no doubt, but I think the basics are there in useful/understandable terms? Radiation heating depends on hot sources. The formulas involved reflect this factor. The hotter (relatively), the faster the rate. The sun heats us at 93,000,000 miles (give or take) because it's mighty hot. The moon is much closer, but being not much hotter doesn't contribute to Global Warming near as much even though it subtends a larger angle ('is bigger in the sky') and is closer. Moonlight is significant, but 'moon heating' isn't. It's just not that much hotter there, even at 'high noon'. Since the walls of the oven are basically the same temperature as the load their rate of contribution of heat by IR has to be small once at the magic temperature. And we need big.

Or not.

Regards to all who waded through that. I hope it made some sense. IMO it fits in with the way the rest of the world seems to work.......as it should.

Thanks.

OF
 

vapman

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Forget radiation. Radiation only works when the hot side is much hotter than the load. My money's on conduction. OF

Allow me to involve myself in the debate about conduction, convection and radiation.

I agree with OF, to heat something by radiation, the heating element must be hotter to much hotter than the medium to be heated up. This applies definitely not with vapman as the herb chamber gets only a little hotter than the herbs.
To me, vapman is a convection vaporizer with some conduction effect when drawing on the mouthpiece.

vapman
 

hoyo77

Well-Known Member
OK, I get it it's a popular belief, but here's where I think it's flawed.

First off, consider those heating panels, how hot are they? Much hotter than the store, right? Likewise the oven, you need a couple hundred degrees difference to cook the food in normal times. Much more to broil (which is basically pure radiation, without the normal convection (hot air contacting the dinner)). Convection ovens capitalize on this (conduction/convection heating by hot air) to do the same work in less time at lower temperatures. In a vacuum (no hot air) that home oven would take much longer to cook the holiday turkey.

Now to the non intuitive arguments. Everything that's at all warm is radiating IR. It's basically trying to heat up the world that way. At the same time, the world is trying to heat it. You are comfortable in your clothes because while you're radiating heat out, your warm clothes return the favor in addition to trapping a layer of warm air. Likewise, the kitchen table eventually reaches 'room temperature'. Even in a vacuum (although there it takes much longer due to lack of air).

Second idea: Heat is different from temperature. One is calories (or Joules or BTUs) the other degrees (F or C, depending). Because of English, folks confuse 'heat' (energy transfer) with 'heat' (temperature). Heat (in the terms we want here) is the ability to change the temperature in the load. Transfer energy. Temperature is just a measure of the molecular level vibrations, usually eventually leading to melting as the solid structure breaks down and boiling after that as more and more energy is added. To form an analogy that might help, heat (energy transfer) is a flow, temperature a pressure? They are related by other factors, but are different things.

Still with me? Cool. Now for number 3. To make vapor takes energy. Usually a lot. For instance, with water it takes one calorie to raise a gram one degree C (the definition of calorie), about 4.2 Joules for those using the really fun units (the ones named after dead guys......). Say 300 J to raise that gram of water from room temperature to boiling? To evaporate a gram of it off (without changing the temperature of the gas vrs the liquid) takes over 2000 J. This is why "steam burns" are so bad. The steam isn't all that hot (temperature) but has a huge amount of heat (calories, or Joules) to give up as it condenses on your skin. It's also why swamp coolers work so well (evaporating off the water takes LOTS of heat out of the air doing so).

Now to try to pull together....... To make vapor we too need lots of energy. And to keep making vapor for the hit means we need a constant flow of energy that's quite large relative to heating either the load or vapor a few degrees. In VM that comes from the torch heating the copper. When we're making that vapor the copper is basically the same temperature as the bud and vapor (no burning) so the IR heat transfer from copper to load is nearly the same as the load to copper. Not a lot of calories moving into the load that way. Thermodynamics won't allow it (high rates of transfer). It's the need for constant net energy flow into the load and no 'delta T' (difference in temperature to drive it) that disqualifies IR as the prime process here. Yes, it helps MFLB get to temperature faster (when the screen is hot and the load cold) but it doesn't make more vapor, that has to depend on conduction like in VM. Notice how the load in VM is shallow? Lots of contact with the copper? I don't think that's an accident.

Finally it's a misnomer to call herb an insulator in vapes. Thermocouple measurements with Ascent show this is exactly what's happening through loads much deeper than VM. Remember, locally (within the load) you have hot air (and vapor itself) in the game too. There, like I believe as it is in VM, the bulk of the work (transferring the energy to make vapor) is by conduction.

That's my understanding anyway. It's not as simple as that no doubt, but I think the basics are there in useful/understandable terms? Radiation heating depends on hot sources. The formulas involved reflect this factor. The hotter (relatively), the faster the rate. The sun heats us at 93,000,000 miles (give or take) because it's mighty hot. The moon is much closer, but being not much hotter doesn't contribute to Global Warming near as much even though it subtends a larger angle ('is bigger in the sky') and is closer. Moonlight is significant, but 'moon heating' isn't. It's just not that much hotter there, even at 'high noon'. Since the walls of the oven are basically the same temperature as the load their rate of contribution of heat by IR has to be small once at the magic temperature. And we need big.

Or not.

Regards to all who waded through that. I hope it made some sense. IMO it fits in with the way the rest of the world seems to work.......as it should.

Thanks.

OF
Yeah i see...i understand too. But in the end when it is all said and done. The VAPMAN is a beast and I love my Vapman!! The ritual of preparing concentrates and herbs for this beauty is just relaxing. I wish i were bold enough to post some vape porn. Maybe one day i will get my nerve up.
 
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