Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A
- Thread starter FlyingLow
- Start date
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
I think 2clicker just wants to cut down on the amount of initial plant material. a rough dry sift can easily reduce 70% of the plant by weight- a pretty smart thing to do if you have a lot to process and/or expensive solvents. The tradeoff is that excessive dry sifting will break cell walls- leading to more chlorophyll/lipids in your oil and lowering the quality. I agree that running high-end dry sift is blasphemy though.
Also do you know which particular terpenes are water soluble? I've done some reading on the topic and was under the impression that most terpenes are water insoluble.
http://www.tcichemicals.com/eshop/en/us/category_index/00306/#innerlink_6_1_1
The science of terpenes is much more complex: simpler terpenes such as hemiterpenes, monoterpenes and sesquiterpenes have limited water solubility - they will dissolve in water, just not quickly or completely at room temp. More complex terpenes (like our favourite cannabinoids!) are basically water insoluble.
However, oxygenated monoterpenes - which are known to be found in cannabis plants - are more water soluble than was originally thought (see http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00982309).
You are spot on brother, dry sift down to 98%-99% heads is gonna take an eternity compared to other extraction methods lol. Because of this physical labor to yield ratio, you are right to say that technically the returns should be heavier, but that physical labor will probably limit this result in real-life scenarios. You can certainly get it pure enough to just press into shatter
I am not talking about dry ice here btw, just dry sifting of buds carried out to the further degree, the sorta stuff bubbleman and the guys Mvapes and I are talking about produce.
Check that shit out if you haven't, it is mind blowing the sifting these guys do. I assumed that Mvapes was talking about that level of dry sift when it was brought up.
Not if you are exhaustive in your dry sift tek... and hence have a whole hell of a lot of time on your hands!
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Hotz
Well-Known Member
But, but how do you do it? only plunged the colling unit in iso several times and at the end when the iso evaporated left it?
lazylathe
Almost there...
Just wasj
Exactly!
Get yourself a glass jar and fill with the highest % ISO you can find.
Clean ALL your bits covered in vape oil in the jar, it will take on a yellow hue.
Keep going for as long as you like and when you are ready, strain the ISO through a few coffee filters into a flat bottomed glass dish.
Place in a well ventilated area with a fan blowing air across it.
The ISO evaporates in a day or so depending on amount of ISO.
Scrape up the goo left in the plate and mix dabs with your bud and vape away!
Exactly!
Get yourself a glass jar and fill with the highest % ISO you can find.
Clean ALL your bits covered in vape oil in the jar, it will take on a yellow hue.
Keep going for as long as you like and when you are ready, strain the ISO through a few coffee filters into a flat bottomed glass dish.
Place in a well ventilated area with a fan blowing air across it.
The ISO evaporates in a day or so depending on amount of ISO.
Scrape up the goo left in the plate and mix dabs with your bud and vape away!
Krizzle
Hi Very high
@Hotz Glass mason jar filled with enough 99% ISO to cover all the dissembled crafty parts. Keep same oil in jar for many many cleaning sessions of crafty parts.
I notice in your sig you have original Da Vinci you could also clean your oil cans in this same ISO jar. I use an old glass candle jar with a lid on.
Once oil starts to turn color wait a little longer for it too go darker. Strain using metal strainer/sieve using a coffee filter like @lazylathe says!
You only really need the one coffee filter. Do this over glass bottom dish that I then put outside (under cover) and wait a day or two for it to evaporate then scrape up with razer blade.
Smell the dish and wait until it stops smelling of Alcohol before scraping it up! If you must do inside then open all windows and have fan blowing across. No naked flames.
I notice in your sig you have original Da Vinci you could also clean your oil cans in this same ISO jar. I use an old glass candle jar with a lid on.
Once oil starts to turn color wait a little longer for it too go darker. Strain using metal strainer/sieve using a coffee filter like @lazylathe says!
You only really need the one coffee filter. Do this over glass bottom dish that I then put outside (under cover) and wait a day or two for it to evaporate then scrape up with razer blade.
Smell the dish and wait until it stops smelling of Alcohol before scraping it up! If you must do inside then open all windows and have fan blowing across. No naked flames.
Can you do this with whole buds grounded up and make oil? Is it the same as bho? What's the differences? this sounds so simple and too good to be true compared to bho or co2 oil
lazylathe
Almost there...
You can do it with whole buds but the tech is very different.
And results vary wildly!!
Usually you freeze the ground bud and ISO for at least 24 hours.
Then you do 20 second washes trying to keep everything cold.
Strain and dry as usual with lots of ventilation.
I would rather make BHO with whole bud though... Just my
And CO2 hash with trim!
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Guys - those of you who know me know that I know my QWISO.
However, please DO NOT use ISO unless you have the means to safely and fully purge this. This basically entails a vacuum pump or a solid bain marie setup for crude heat purge. Air evaporation is NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!
Since you guys plan to do this to reclaim oil from your crafty cooling unit's, the oil is already gonna be decarbed somewhat so evaporation of iso can be carried out with heat alone, I would suggest purging at 100-120c until there are ABSOLUTELY NO BUBBLES LEFT! Same can be done to purge ISO out of AVB oil.
Furthermore, NEVER, EVER purge in anything but an extremely well ventilated room. Evaporating ISO is not safe to breathe in at all! Also make sure you never use any heat source that involves any flame at all (seriously!) or hot elements that the ISO could come into contact with.
Residual iso in your dabs is really not safe. Please do not allow for this possibility. You need to be sure that you can safely carry out this exercise before ever trying it! Getting the most out of your stash is only worthwhile if you don't harm yourself or others in the process!
By the way; never, ever grind up buds to make concentrates. The only ways you are ever gonna have success and not end up with plant material filled glop from ground buds are to either:
1. Use super expensive solvents which are utterly unsafe for anyone without serious chem knowledge and hardware to work with or...
2. Do some seriously hard labor dry sifting out all the plant material.
However, please DO NOT use ISO unless you have the means to safely and fully purge this. This basically entails a vacuum pump or a solid bain marie setup for crude heat purge. Air evaporation is NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!
Since you guys plan to do this to reclaim oil from your crafty cooling unit's, the oil is already gonna be decarbed somewhat so evaporation of iso can be carried out with heat alone, I would suggest purging at 100-120c until there are ABSOLUTELY NO BUBBLES LEFT! Same can be done to purge ISO out of AVB oil.
Furthermore, NEVER, EVER purge in anything but an extremely well ventilated room. Evaporating ISO is not safe to breathe in at all! Also make sure you never use any heat source that involves any flame at all (seriously!) or hot elements that the ISO could come into contact with.
Residual iso in your dabs is really not safe. Please do not allow for this possibility. You need to be sure that you can safely carry out this exercise before ever trying it! Getting the most out of your stash is only worthwhile if you don't harm yourself or others in the process!
By the way; never, ever grind up buds to make concentrates. The only ways you are ever gonna have success and not end up with plant material filled glop from ground buds are to either:
1. Use super expensive solvents which are utterly unsafe for anyone without serious chem knowledge and hardware to work with or...
2. Do some seriously hard labor dry sifting out all the plant material.
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Aha thanks I knew it sounded too good to be true I know about the purging process. If ima do all that I might as well make it with bho and blow up my house (jk). Not worth the time and effort IMO unless you have a vacuum oven, unless there's an easier way or something they created to automate it that I don't know about yet :-) ?
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Lol @ blowing up your house with regular bho (this is not an endorsement, please understand that Herbivore21 does not endorse blowing your house up with any kind of apparatus
).There is a simpler solution than getting a vac setup which I outlined above
Bain Marie! However, there must be absolutely no way possible for that ISO to get into contact with any source of ignition (stove elements, gas flames, brave and/or stupid combusters sparking up a doobie nearby).The water in the double boiler which heats the top vessel where the ISO solution is placed for purge will limit the temp to ~100c (boiling point of water). Then you avoid using too much heat which can lead to full decarb and then thermal degradation of THC to CBN (which is gonna put you to sleep rather than get you high in the way we are seeking) at best, or fire/explosion from autoignition of your solvent at worst!
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Hi everyone,
I recently turned to this forum to ask for advice on how to properly purge bho without a vac. After reading some nice answers and doing a little more research on my own, it looks like Im going to invest in a small kit to ensure I'm making the best and safest product as possible. Can someone tell me if this kit would do the trick or not? Im only making small amounts at a time, usually around 5-10 g's of bho after blast it, so ya, please let me know if you have any wisdom on this topic, i would greatly appreciate it!
http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/3ga-shatter-vac-3cfm.html
I recently turned to this forum to ask for advice on how to properly purge bho without a vac. After reading some nice answers and doing a little more research on my own, it looks like Im going to invest in a small kit to ensure I'm making the best and safest product as possible. Can someone tell me if this kit would do the trick or not? Im only making small amounts at a time, usually around 5-10 g's of bho after blast it, so ya, please let me know if you have any wisdom on this topic, i would greatly appreciate it!
http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/3ga-shatter-vac-3cfm.html
spoutti
Well-Known Member
Im curious about canadian options for vac chambers. I oftently see this site suggested, would I be better importing from them and bite the import taxes bullet?
Bouldorado
Well-Known Member
@FreeSound
That setup should work fine. Few things worth pointing out:
That setup should work fine. Few things worth pointing out:
- If you want to blast directly into the chamber, I would get a smaller glass one to make scraping easier (ideal for smaller runs, i.e <3g). Otherwise you'll need to blast on pyrex, and scrape and transfer to parchment/siliccon before you can purge.
- The large size of the chamber will take a while to vacuum- again a smaller chamber is advantageous here.
Thanks a lot for the help! Do you think something this size would be a better fit then, like i said its just for really small batches so i see your point. Im also wondering if its ok to order this into Canada or not I may ask the company what they think about shipping it
http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/1-5gvackit.html
smokum
I am who I am and your approval isn't needed!
I ordered this one to canada fm amazon and it works great http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KCXZULE/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_3p_dp_1
I had a 3cfm (not one of BVV's) and hated it... too long to achieve -26 max, too noisy, and only single stage. Ended up ordering this CPS 6cfm 2-stage and love it http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002YKAZ0Y/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_3p_dp_1 (but this one I picked up at the border to get free shipping as the weight made shipping direct the same as the pump lol).
I had a 3cfm (not one of BVV's) and hated it... too long to achieve -26 max, too noisy, and only single stage. Ended up ordering this CPS 6cfm 2-stage and love it http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002YKAZ0Y/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_3p_dp_1 (but this one I picked up at the border to get free shipping as the weight made shipping direct the same as the pump lol).
Really helpful response, thanks so much. I think ill go ahead and order the chamber you posted, looks like the right size, good price too. Im assuming you blast right into the pyrex then just attach the lid?
Thats crazy about the shipping on the vac too I'm gonna have to figure something out because picking it up wouldn't be an option. I wonder if theres any alternatives within Canada , I've been looking but with not much luck
smokum
I am who I am and your approval isn't needed!
@FreeSound
Yup, that's exactly what I do.. but as it's winter here now, I'm doing QWISO &/or QWET because I stay the fuck away from butane 'play' when it's this dry due to a greater chance of a static spark.
I will typically light haze heat with a crafters heat gun, then prop the vac dish on an angle while holding a -29 vac. Then just keep alternating the angle and re-vac'ing over 12 hrs or until I feel all that's left is terp bubbles. I find this creates a nice thin surface area to remove any solvents much easier.
I searched well over a year for a decent vac unit 'within' Canada (wanted 2-stage and over 4cfm), but the price was just stupid (as well as the shipping costs)... so much so that it was still cheaper to buy fm USA and take a day trip to the border to a parcel holding service, pay my taxes crossing back (no duties, and claimed it as a vacuum part hehe).
Yup, that's exactly what I do.. but as it's winter here now, I'm doing QWISO &/or QWET because I stay the fuck away from butane 'play' when it's this dry due to a greater chance of a static spark.
I will typically light haze heat with a crafters heat gun, then prop the vac dish on an angle while holding a -29 vac. Then just keep alternating the angle and re-vac'ing over 12 hrs or until I feel all that's left is terp bubbles. I find this creates a nice thin surface area to remove any solvents much easier.
I searched well over a year for a decent vac unit 'within' Canada (wanted 2-stage and over 4cfm), but the price was just stupid (as well as the shipping costs)... so much so that it was still cheaper to buy fm USA and take a day trip to the border to a parcel holding service, pay my taxes crossing back (no duties, and claimed it as a vacuum part hehe).
spoutti
Well-Known Member
Tx a lot for the tips @smokum ! I didnt think I would go with bho and a vac somedays. I studied qwet because it was simplier and didnt "needed" them. With my short experience, I see I need a vac if I want to keep terps without alcohol. And if I go with a vac, I will go with butane since its much cheaper.
Im totally clueless about vacs and whats needed, but I will follow your suggestions and start there. I would appreciate to know if im missing something crucial, but here is what I found.
http://www.amazon.ca/Robinair-15800-VacuMaster-Two-Stage-Vacuum/dp/B001P7C7QM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423532524&sr=8-1&keywords=vacuum pump 2 stage
290cad shipping inc. Its an 8cfm 2 stages. I found the same pump you have but its a bit more expensive (315cad); must be because the pump is in the states paid in usd.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/CPS-VP6D-6-C...859?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c958f0003
For the chamber, I would buy this round 1 here
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vacuum-Chamb...135?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d4ee427
After that, I should be able to produce some tasty shatter
Im totally clueless about vacs and whats needed, but I will follow your suggestions and start there. I would appreciate to know if im missing something crucial, but here is what I found.
http://www.amazon.ca/Robinair-15800-VacuMaster-Two-Stage-Vacuum/dp/B001P7C7QM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423532524&sr=8-1&keywords=vacuum pump 2 stage
290cad shipping inc. Its an 8cfm 2 stages. I found the same pump you have but its a bit more expensive (315cad); must be because the pump is in the states paid in usd.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/CPS-VP6D-6-C...859?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c958f0003
For the chamber, I would buy this round 1 here
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vacuum-Chamb...135?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d4ee427
After that, I should be able to produce some tasty shatter
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killick
But I like it!
I have a glass jar on my desk with an inch of high test Everclear in it that everything gets cleaned in. I also dropped a blob of hash in it a few weeks back. Anyways, it's much closer to black then any other colour... but a spoonful goes great in hot chocolate!
Bouldorado
Well-Known Member
Those robinair pumps are super solid. I bought mine off craigslist from someone who used it to service ACs for years. Cleaned it up and changed the oil, and it's as good as new. I have the robinair 15600 (2 stage & 4 cfm) and tbh, you really don't need a pump this powerful for individual use. My vacuum chamber is about a gallon and the pump will evacuate it in less than a minute. Something on the smaller side will save you a decent bit coin while still working almost as well.
After reading this I went ahead and purchased a robinair 15500 vac pump , and when I read the specs I see it's a two stage , 1/3 HP, and the factory micron rating says 35 microns.
Do these specs seem ok to you guys I guess I have until tomorrow to change my mind and get a different one , again I'm hoping to use this to do small batches of shatter , using about 5 g's of bho at a time
Any advice is appreciated here as I wanna lake sure I get an ok pump that will do the job properly
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Bouldorado
Well-Known Member
Here's a micron conversion chart:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/vacuum-converter-d_460.html
That pump is more than powerful enough for purging- it can pull greater than a 99.99% vacuum.
ok good to know! Thanks for posting the chart, helps clear things up, so much info to take in wanted to be sure