Stupid Shit !!!

CarolKing said:

In school we teach our children if someone hits you, don't hit back. You resolve issues with your words. Then if you hit back you will get in trouble too. At home the dads say if someone hits you, better hit them back.

Really stupid shit!!!!! The terrorist hit the buildings with the planes during 911 and Bush declares war on Iraq, they say they didn't declare war, war is war. People are killed or lives and homes are destroyed either way.

Our leaders need to use their words to resolve problems.

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I agree but as the Dad of 2 daughters I amended the 'if someone hits you don't hit back' to only fight when you have to protect yourself. I made it my business to teach them, starting at the age of five and a half so it was built in, that they had a right to protect themselves and how to do it the right way. The rules were simple:

• NEVER fight because of words or things - I can replace things but I cannot replace you.
• NEVER fight if you can RUN AWAY - You're life is more important than your pride.
• NEVER fight unless you will be harmed or have been....period.
  
• If you must fight - Then your life is in danger and I want you to fight as hard as you can and don't stop until the person(s) trying to hurt you can no longer move.

I'm happy to say outside of training neither of my babies ever had to hurt anyone and never got hurt.

His_Highness said:

Would you go so far as to say....that's Some Stupid Shit!!!???

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You know people commit suicide because they are verbally bullied right?

Do you know what being in a verbally abusive relationship can do to a person?

These are rhetorical questions btw and I don't need or want you to answer them.
I also hope your daughter's don't experience these things as they have a Dad that thinks words can not hurt.

If you do truly believe your own statment I pitty you and your family.



Just try to engage your brain before making flippant comments with laughing smilies.

His_Highness said:

I agree but as the Dad of 2 daughters I amended the 'if someone hits you don't hit back' to only fight when you have to protect yourself. I made it my business to teach them, starting at the age of five and a half so it was built in, that they had a right to protect themselves and how to do it the right way. The rules were simple:

• NEVER fight because of words or things - I can replace things but I cannot replace you.
• NEVER fight if you can RUN AWAY - You're life is more important than your pride.
• NEVER fight unless you will be harmed or have been....period.
  
• If you must fight - Then your life is in danger and I want you to fight as hard as you can and don't stop until the person(s) trying to hurt you can no longer move.

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As a the dad of 2 daughters too, I think these rules are very good to follow.
I was thinking very often of how explain this subject to them. Thank a lot His_Highness, your words are very clear and I like this philosophy.

h3rbalist said:

You know people commit suicide because they are verbally bullied right?

Do you know what being in a verbally abusive relationship can do to a person?

These are rhetorical questions btw and I don't need or want you to answer them.
I also hope your daughter's don't experience these things as they have a Dad that thinks words can not hurt.

If you do truly believe your own statment I pitty you and your family.



Just try to engage your brain before making flippant comments with laughing smilies.

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I think it all has to do with context. In his post about how he raised his daughters, to me, it makes perfect sense to tell them that words don't hurt and that words are not a reason to counter them with a physical attack and that the only reason to become physical is when they themselves are being physically attacked.

But I do agree that as a general statement that words don't hurt is utterly wrong. Verbal abuse can be just as devastating, if not more so than physical abuse, especially when it happens in an on-going relationship be it spousal or parent/child relationships, but.............in a school situation, I believe that a perspective of "words don't hurt me" is a good mindset to have.

lwien said:

I think it all has to do with context. In his post about how he raised his daughters, to me, it makes perfect sense to tell them that words don't hurt and that words are not a reason to counter them with a physical attack and that the only reason to become physical is when they themselves are being physically attacked.

But I do agree that as a general statement that words don't hurt is utterly wrong. Verbal abuse can be just as devastating, if not more so than physical abuse, especially when it happens in an on-going relationship be it spousal or parent/child relationships, but.............in a school situation, I believe that a perspective of "words don't hurt me" is a good mindset to have.

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Please don't try to justify this comment.
He should have elaborated. Not made a flippant comment or used his rolling smilie.

How do you know I am not someone who has buried a teenage daughter due to prolonged verbal abuse?


edit

to me his post about his daughter exposes some other male chauvinist opinions if you read between the lines.

what would be his advise to his Sons????

h3rbalist said:

what would be his advise to his Sons????

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I would hope that it would be the same, but I do agree that a flippant comment followed by a laughing smilie when it comes to the devastating consequences that can occur with bullying was totally uncalled for.............especially in a forum where you have no idea what experiences certain members may have had with this issue.

lwien said:

I would hope that it would be the same

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Me too.

So why does his post starts with. 'I agree but as the Dad of 2 daughters '

h3rbalist said:

Me too.

So why does his post starts with. 'I agree but as the Dad of 2 daughters '

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I don't think that that statement was meant to mean that his methods would be any different than if he was talking about 2 of his sons. Whenever I talk about my kids, I always refer to them as my boys, or my sons...............not my children or my kids.

You may be reading more into this than what is really there but if you experienced what you implied that you did, than I totally understand the sensitivities that are in play here.

I mean, "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me" isn't really incorrect at all.

Words only hurt you if you let them.

Words only hurt you if you value or care about the person saying them.

IF the words hurt you, there's probably some basis or truth in them. I don't mean just phoning someone up to call them a fuck face, that shouldn't really bother you, because who gives a shit what that person says, but if my parents and close friends, people's whose opinions I value, tell me that I'm selfish and that I don't do anything for anyone else.....man that kind of hurts are you serious, you really feel that way? I heard that from a handful of people, and while I don't always agree with it, there is some truth to it, and I've worked on changing it. The words hurt me cause I knew they were kind of true.

TLDR: Being called a pussy shouldn't bother you, unless you are actually a pussy. And if it bothers you badly enough, should work to change it.

I'm not trying to come across as insensitive or anything like that, just how I feel.

Edit: For clarification, I'm not calling anyone a pussy I am just using that as an example, could substitue asshole, cheater, self absorbed, w/e.

And I don't think there is anything sexist or chavenistic about a dad referring to his daughters as his daughters, my dad has only boys and refers to us as his sons, I know other parents who have boys and girls and they refer to them as "my boys" or "my girls" when talking about the specific sex or simply "my kids" when referring to all of them, like "Thank god my kids aren't such a problem"

HellsWindStaff said:

IF the words hurt you, there's probably some basis or truth in them.

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Wow..........just............wow. You actually make a statement like that and you then follow it up with stating that you don't mean to be insensitive? That is just mind-boggling.

Ok, I think that this subject can get wayyyyyy out of hand, especially with this last post above and I strongly suggest that all parties involved just step away from this particular subject for if not, this thread WILL be shut down. Of that, I have no doubt.

lwien said:

I don't think that that statement was meant to mean that his methods would be any different than if he was talking about 2 of his sons. Whenever I talk about my kids, I always refer to them as my boys, or my sons...............not my children or my kids.

You may be reading more into this than what is really there but if you experienced what you implied that you did, than I totally understand the sensitivities that are in play here.

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The guy insulted me and thinks words can not hurt.

That is wrong in ANY context, however you try to justify it. Full stop. No ifs ands or buts.

It's not my opinion. That is fact.

Usually people who claim otherwise are/were the abusers.

Edit

I'm not bothered he tried to insult me directly.

I'm just pointing out he is wrong to do so.

Edit edit

Sorry for derailing mate. I tried.
He shouldn't have quoted me the way he did. No one liked his comment and I couldn't let it go for my own reasons. Humble apologies. @lwien

Like I said guys, no good is going to come from this debate. If ya don't step away from this, this thread is going to be put to sleep and I've started too many threads that I feel were of real value that were put to sleep for this very thing that may happen here.

Sorry lwien but I have to respond with regard to my original post that seems to have started all this.

First - I only have daughters but if I did have sons I would tell them the same thing with regard to protecting themselves. I didn't make up those rules all on my own...these are the same rules most martial art studios expect their participants to adhere to. I have trained in a few different styles in my time and its common for these rules to be explained, especially to children to eliminate bullying by the trained.

Second - My use of the old 'Sticks and Stones' was meant to be sarcastic and not taken literally...hence the rolling smile emoticon. If I had meant that Sticks and Stones comment to be taken seriously I would not have put the emoticon on it.

Lastly - I apologize if I hurt anyone with that post but making statements, no matter how watered down, relative to whether or not I verbally abuse my children/family OR am a good and caring father is some STUPID SHIT!!! (Bet you didn't think I was going to be able to drag this back to the reason for the thread) As I've said to my children 'Because you were/are hurt it does not give you the right to visit that hurt on anyone else'.

In the future please take me to task on anything I may post that causes anyone to have their feelings hurt WITHOUT DRAGGING MY FAMILY INTO IT.

Ok, let HH's post above be the last on this topic, k? Please don't let another thread that I started get closed down.

End it now...........

lwien said:

Wow..........just............wow. You actually make a statement like that and you then follow it up with stating that you don't mean to be insensitive? That is just mind-boggling.

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Yeah, I'm actually kind of mind boggled at the way it was taken as insensitive. Maybe I was unclear, but I thought it was fine considering the context of the statement in my post.

Here's a scenario, maybe it will help explain my point/opinion.

1. I'm told I'm a worthless piece of shit, that I never cause any good but only problems.

Those are words. As I said, words only hurt you if you let them. Now, I'm thinking of the source; was it my brother who told me this? A coworker? My best friend? My dad?

Those words are going to hurt more, coming from someones opinion I value. You shouldn't give two shits about what some coworker or random person thinks about you. The opinion of someone who you do value though, should hold more weight. Still, as stated before, the words only hurt you if you let them.

Now IF the words are really hurting you, that you're really beating yourself up over it, there's probably some basis in it. Because the words should only really hurt you, if they're coming from someone who matters. And if its from someone who matters, chances are they aren't doing it out of spite or hate, but to improve you. Doesn't make the words hurt any less, but its more of constructive criticism and shouldn't be taken as "why is everyone being soooo meannn to me!"

Obviously, not everyone is the same, but if you can keep those above thoughts in check, about the source of the words, probably could alleviate some stress. If my family calls me lazy repeatedly, I'm probably lazy to some degree, at the very least I'm probably lazier then they are. Its on me whether I hold those opinions with any weight or not or let their words bother me, does it bother me if they think I'm lazy? If so, I should change it. If not, who really cares what they say?

Bullying isn't ok, but I do feel some people let words beat them up to an unhealthy degree for no reason, so consider the source. And I get that sometimes its not 100% cut and dry, you would think parents would be a credible source most of the time, but my mom spent the better part of 40 years feeling like she was worth nothing, because she valued her "families" opinions.....they were really just pieces of shit and she shouldn't of cared at all.

That's my .02, hopefully it can help someone who feels they're getting bullied to either buck up and not give a shit, or to actually take the criticisms to heart and work to change yourself if the "bullying" actually is a helpful.

As for the OP, I do think its stupid that there is a fear of not being able to have a healthy discussion on an online forum about any number of different things. These are people's opinions, its stupid to fear it "getting out of hand" there isn't any reason people shouldn't be able to chime in and discuss any number of topics. If people can't remain civil on a message board....idk lol, I've never had that problem so I don't really get it. But its stupid to limit discussion just because of differing viewpoints.

.02, like I said before I'm not being insensitive, quite contrary I'm trying to help people. And since its seemingly such a taboo and scary thing, that's the end of it from me.

Goddamn it............. I asked you to stop and then you post this shit.

Ok mods.............close this goddamn thread down. Too much stupid shit going on in the Stupid Shit thread. FUCK !!!!!

Sorry @lwien, I can see that you tried your best.

Since some of you don't have the self-dicipline to either stay on topic or start your own thread, I'm forced to comply with lwien's request and put this thread in storage.