Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A

spoutti

spoutti

Well-Known Member
@farscaper Tx for the tip man. Im learning. I think its the natural évolution of concentrate making having a vac chamber. Now I didnt know about the water purging. Coincidentially, I reclaimed and cleaned my herc yesterday, but I didnt dry the ti coil enough. Im having weird noises and reactions when I fire it. Must be the water.

My 1st batches were left with ethanol resulting in irritated respiratory system. My last/2nd runs I winterized and overpurged at around 180F to be sure to have smooth vapors, losing terps in the process. Im not confident, yet, in differienciating the ethanol bubbles from the co2 bubbles from the decarbing (and unterping :(). I ran 2 strains and both taste the same, but I love this taste. I wish I could keep more of the terps in though.

As for 0 waste tech, I just thought last night about simply wiping our ptfe sheet, or pyrex container etc, with an ethanol damped cotton. Then let it air dry stick it in an appropriate vaporizer.
 
herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
killick said:
I have a real n00b question, and this does look like the right thread to ask it. I've been searching and just haven't found quite the right info, so here goes...

What do you do with your concentrate once it's evaporated? I scraped my (sticky, clear/light green goo) into a small silicone Oilcan. As I didn't have an oil vape I mixed in a bit of dry herb til it was a bit less tar-like, and then I tried small pieces in a regular vape, sandwiched between more herb.

Over the hols I picked up an oil vape on a whim. When I got home I figured 'why not', broke off a small piece and put it on top of what I later learned is an 'e-nail'. The smoke was immediate and THICK! And tasted of forestfire from my AVB trial run. But it was an amazing experience, even the forestfire taste reminded me of camping. There was a very little bit of sparking, which I assume is alcohol flashing off. Anyways, not being quite pleased with the clarity, I dropped it into a batch of budder, and am about to try again, but this time with a mix of 20g of 24% THC and 10 grams of a 14% THC/8% CBD blend, and am aiming to keep this one in better condition.

Mistakes made: Mixed ABV and good bud. Should have stuck with ABV for trial.
Put a couple of paper coffee filters in a metal filter basket, and then dumped straight into that. It got gunked up immediately and I would up juggling a whole bunch of things til it finally drained, but it soaked a good couple of minutes longer than intended.

I only did one wash, and then froze the remainder and used it in a batch of budder a few days later.

*Next time - start with coarse filter, then metal coffee filter, and then decide whether to Aeropress the last bit.
* After decarb, freeze everything for a few hours. Drain into a steel bowl in an ice bath - keep everything as cold as possible until it gets to dehydrate step.

It'll be evaped in a small glass dish floating in a larger glass dish full of kettle-boiled water.

Once everything is evaped does it go straight into oilcan? Or should I be stirring or agitating during the dehydrate phase?

I've looked up some of the vacuum containers online - they look like a bit of a ripoff at over 100 beans just for the container. The same glass dish, with a bit of magic lexan from the hardware store, and you should be good to go. As for pumps - I did some airbrush putzing around a bunch of years ago. That should work for vacuum, and they are inexpensive - it's not like you are trying to suck-start a Harley or anything, right? An auto brake bleed kit is cheap. So are those weenie keyboard vacuums should be enough to create a slight vacuum for pulling materials out, or am I way off base?

TIA, and I did say it was a total newb question, right? But I'm enthusiastic :)
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Dude, proper vacuum equipment costs an absolute fuckton more than 100 beans.

Count yourself lucky that these BHO specific companies have made affordable pumps/chambers like this, because for a legit lab style pump, you'd be splashing out multiple thousands!!!!

Remember, a vacuum pump can do a hell of a lot more than just purge BHO (seriously!). You are literally buying an item which will allow you to play around with physics to suit your application. How can you put a price on the ability to change the timescale within which you can perform complex chemical reactions? That is what you are doing when you can change the pressure of a vessel.

A vac is absolutely indispensible in chemistry, and even though I don't use one as of yet, I will soon. I am waiting for the right tool for the job, and when I find it - prepare to see my oils jump up another level of quality again!

Still, great advice for the redissolve in ethanol on bho that gets a bit of moisture in. You could do the same with ISO as well so long as you have the means and know-how to properly purge it off.

Remember guys, butane's achilles heel is water. I have seen many a lovely butane run end up sizzling on the nail and hot and harsh because it got some water in it during the process.

Still, this is what some of our alcohols (rather than the simpler alkanes, of which butane is one) has to offer us - playing more nicely with water! Ethanol will pull the fixings to make water right out of the air if you leave it exposed long enough. Ethanol has an insatiable taste for sweet lady water! lol

Alcohols do however have higher boiling points than the simple alkanes, but if you think the boiling points of ISO and Ethanol are high, check out the boiling point of butyl alcohol (butanol) - butane in alcoholic form. With a boiling point of 117.4c, butanol would have to be purged at such a high heat at atmospheric pressure that you would achieve full decarb of the material in close to half an hour! No more shatterdays! lol
 
killick

killick

But I like it!
@herbivore21 Thanks for the info! I do understand the differences between chemlab setups, kinda like I'm familiar with a professional cabinet shop comparing to a weekend woodbutchers garage. If I only need a bit of vacuum to pull contaminants out of a small batch of home made stuff a quickie solution can be MacGyver'd up. If talking production runs then thats a whole different story. I'm just trying to make a small amount of clean med. But if this turns out to be a big thing for me I'll be back in the threads looking for the right equipment. Right after I finish off the list for the grow closet :)
 
mvapes

mvapes

Scratchin' Glass!
Accessory Maker
Shit, my current set up was thousands!

Here's what it should cost you to be able to run less than 2 zips at a time.

Vac pump - For entry level I recommend JB. You can get a 4 cfm 2 stage eliminator for about 250 on ebay new.

Induction cooktop - 80 at bed bath.

Induction interface plate - 25 at bed bath.

2.5 gallon chamber - I like slick vac - no adhesives, 100 bucks.

A gallon of JB black gold pump oil - 50.

A good fucking gas mask - 30 bucks.

Parchment paper
Razors
Pyrex
Rubber gloves
Tane - don't buy garbage!

Glass extraction tubes - use a 10 to 20 micron screen instead of coffee filters. Tube should never be more than 1/2 inch in diameter.

Use good nug. Fuck the abv unless your ISO washing. It's not worth the butane.

Extraction doesn't turn shit into gold. You get out what you put in. Your yields will financially kill you while trying to save.
 
killick

killick

But I like it!
mvapes said:
Shit, my current set up was thousands!
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So, I'm thinking that the thread name is inappropriate. 'Concentrates for noobs - Q&A' to me is a forum to come in and ask questions, as a beginner. If I had thousands of dollars of equipment related to a hobby I would no longer be looking in a 'noob' thread. Perhaps there is another thread that is more aimed towards people who are just beginning to learn about concentrates? Do point it out and I'll delete my posts from here and move to that one. I'm not trying to be obtuse, it's just that I'm barely a hobbyist, and I'm experimenting, not building a chem lab. Not yet anyways... So all this info will come in handy, but now I'm still asking noob questions...

I'm a mean hand at budder - it took me a couple of tries to build confidence, and now I can do it in my sleep. I share that info with others who are just starting to learn about this. I've also made tinctures, which wasn't a big deal either. For the record I'm a vet. I have some injuries. I had major allergic reactions to the meds I was prescribed, and now I'm working hard to replace every single NSAID and narcotic from my regimen of pills. Yes I can get cannabis in bud form, tested and verified. Thats all I can get, and it's a great start to work from. I'm in a rented house, with no garage, and have limited space. I'm working with what I have available.

Now, after reading about the benefits of concentrates I cautiously and optimistically tried a batch using ABV - if it's a waste it's a small one. I was pleased with the results from my little experiment, and now I want to try using really good nuggets and some modifications to the technique. Providing a shopping list of a couple of thousand dollars for tooling up will come in handy, but not right now. I'm currently decarbing 30 grams for my next attempt, which will be like the one I outlined above. The oven just beeped. BRB...
 
NickDlow

NickDlow

Log Hog
killick said:
So, I'm thinking that the thread name is inappropriate. 'Concentrates for noobs - Q&A' to me is a forum to come in and ask questions, as a beginner. If I had thousands of dollars of equipment related to a hobby I would no longer be looking in a 'noob' thread. Perhaps there is another thread that is more aimed towards people who are just beginning to learn about concentrates? Do point it out and I'll delete my posts from here and move to that one. I'm not trying to be obtuse, it's just that I'm barely a hobbyist, and I'm experimenting, not building a chem lab. Not yet anyways... So all this info will come in handy, but now I'm still asking noob questions...

I'm a mean hand at budder - it took me a couple of tries to build confidence, and now I can do it in my sleep. I share that info with others who are just starting to learn about this. I've also made tinctures, which wasn't a big deal either. For the record I'm a vet. I have some injuries. I had major allergic reactions to the meds I was prescribed, and now I'm working hard to replace every single NSAID and narcotic from my regimen of pills. Yes I can get cannabis in bud form, tested and verified. Thats all I can get, and it's a great start to work from. I'm in a rented house, with no garage, and have limited space. I'm working with what I have available.

Now, after reading about the benefits of concentrates I cautiously and optimistically tried a batch using ABV - if it's a waste it's a small one. I was pleased with the results from my little experiment, and now I want to try using really good nuggets and some modifications to the technique. Providing a shopping list of a couple of thousand dollars for tooling up will come in handy, but not right now. I'm currently decarbing 30 grams for my next attempt, which will be like the one I outlined above. The oven just beeped. BRB...
Click to expand...
Forget the bho then. Why don't you try qwet much greater margin for error and in my case it's pretty in expensive. Try n research that n see if that fits your needs.
 
killick

killick

But I like it!
Thats exactly what I'm making. It's a concentrate, no? BHO and associated widgets are for down the road (I'm working on the roadmap in my head, and what I'm learning on here is invaluable, but I'll blow myself up til things are set up correctly :) .

I have a bottle of Everclear on it's 2nd day in the freezer, about to be joined by a foil packet of freshly toasted sticky buds. My wife thinks the house is a bit skunky, but I'm glad she's patient and tolerant of my diversions...

*Edit* So searching for QWET, and filtering through all the results, led me to @herbivore21 's excellent post and instructions on *exactly what I'm trying to do*, complete with outlining the *exact same things* I fluffed up on during my first attempt.

So guys - thanks so much for sharing all this wisdom and knowledge! I really enjoy reading the forums. Obviously a lot of this stuff is over my head, but I'm a lot more confident knowing that there is this massive collective intelligence very nearby to draw on, and us beginners don't get laughed at too hard when we ask the silly Q's! I know I'll be trying the BHO route when I have a safe facility. The shop I stopped at during the holidays (Next Level in Calgary) was empty, and the staff gave me a great tour around what was available, right down to BHO kits, jelly bags, and a bunch of other stuff I didn't know existed. With enough of that brain lernin anything is possible :)
 
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mvapes

mvapes

Scratchin' Glass!
Accessory Maker
I appreciate your respect for the thread. But please know that everyone is welcome here. I'm lucky enough to have aligned myself to be in the position to have such equipment. If I hadn't had a partner I certainly wouldn't or couldn't have afforded the luxury myself.

I don't share my equiptment to show off what I'm doing but to show that the equiptment only speeds things up, the basic science of the extraction never changes.

The only component purchased that can and will have an affect on your oil is your butane.

I know people using a mason jar and a mighty vac and they make dank oil. With my equiptment I get the same results but faster.

It's the same principle should you take away the vac and chamber. It'll still work, but must less efficiently.

And stick around, noobs are cool.

JR Weed Nerds!
 
F

farscaper

Well-Known Member
A noob is just an expert who needs to read more and fail a bit.

without error you cannot see how far to push it and how high you can take it.

how does one know when one is wrong?
when you've finally done it right!

and you will know my friends... when you have done it right!

if anyone bothered to look hard enough they would see we were all noobs once!

some still are :wave:
 
killick

killick

But I like it!
Thanks @NickDlow - there was a link to QWISO in the post, so I'm on the right track.

So here's the scoop, having just put 30ish grams of warm bud into a mason jar in the freezer. I have 4 x 500 ml bottles of 99% ISO that I picked up for a later batch (incremental steps, right?). I've been going with Everclear as I just feel comfortable with alcohol. So now I've just read the 4 page thread on ISO and put 2 litres of 99% ISO in the freezer. Tomorrow is a new day, and I'll take pix of the action. Thanks again for all the pointers and advice! :) I even watched a vid on 'how to make your own vacuum chamber', after reading about someone else's pickle jar vacuum setup. It's kinda fun making things from other things :)
 
herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
killick said:
Thanks @NickDlow - there was a link to QWISO in the post, so I'm on the right track.

So here's the scoop, having just put 30ish grams of warm bud into a mason jar in the freezer. I have 4 x 500 ml bottles of 99% ISO that I picked up for a later batch (incremental steps, right?). I've been going with Everclear as I just feel comfortable with alcohol. So now I've just read the 4 page thread on ISO and put 2 litres of 99% ISO in the freezer. Tomorrow is a new day, and I'll take pix of the action. Thanks again for all the pointers and advice! :) I even watched a vid on 'how to make your own vacuum chamber', after reading about someone else's pickle jar vacuum setup. It's kinda fun making things from other things :)
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You need to ensure that you are using coated glass which is safe under different pressure situations!!! Glass implosion from use of inappropriate glassware for vacuums is at best going to ruin that oil!

Get legit glass for this application. Do not skimp on vacuum glass. Ensure that it is designed for use with vac (or use SS)! Preferably get a chamber with your pump from a reputable vendor, then you can have some trust that you have a chamber which is designed for your application.

A vacuum is a device that if used incorrectly can be anything from an expensive hardware replacement exercise to a deadly catastrophe (depending on pump, solvent and manner of incorrect use).

Do not mess with anything you do not understand. Do not buy this equipment if you don't have your head around all of the relevant properties of the solvents you are using, as well as using appropriate vacuum hoses, glasswear, measurement equipment, clamps and stands. There are safer ways that don't require a vac (like QWET) :)
 
killick

killick

But I like it!
herbivore21 said:
Do not mess with anything you do not understand. Do not buy this equipment if you don't have your head around all of the relevant properties of the solvents you are using, as well as using appropriate vacuum hoses, glasswear, measurement equipment, clamps and stands. There are safer ways that don't require a vac (like QWET) :)
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You got it @herbivore21 - I'm using your QWISO recipe! It looks so fast it might get done tonight and evap overnight in warm water, which is the most pressure my pyrex will see for a couple more months :)

I'm not touching anything more elaborate than this for the next several months. Once I have a perm place to play I'll have the right setup in my mind I'll start on a BoM, and get some of the smart fellers in FC to validate before I get too gar over my head. This is fun, and I've not had enough of that for a couple of years now :)
 
herbivore21

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
NickDlow said:
Couldn't have said it better myself @farscaper and @mvapes. There is always something to learn!

The thread name should be 'Concentrates for EVERYONE - Q&A'

@killick becarful ur not looking at QWISO because @herbivore21 is the QWISO master. If there is a post from him it's most likely QWISO. The main difference is their wash times. Just a heads up.
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You're too kind, my friend! I did indeed make a thread outlining QWET too. Please keep in mind that anything I've said since supercedes whatever is in those instructions, as that was very early on in Herbivore's adventures with concentrates.

killick said:
You got it @herbivore21 - I'm using your QWISO recipe! It looks so fast it might get done tonight and evap overnight in warm water, which is the most pressure my pyrex will see for a couple more months :)

I'm not touching anything more elaborate than this for the next several months. Once I have a perm place to play I'll have the right setup in my mind I'll start on a BoM, and get some of the smart fellers in FC to validate before I get too gar over my head. This is fun, and I've not had enough of that for a couple of years now :)
Click to expand...
Good idea brother ;) keep it safe and sensible!
 
killick

killick

But I like it!
So I've got about 400 ml of a very very pale gold/green sitting in a glass dish, inside another glass dish which will get some hot water in the morning. It was *so* quick. Everything is back in the freezer and will do another wash or two tomorrow, and save that evaping for a little later this week.

Todays tricky bits:
*Coarse stainless strainer, on top of stainless coffee filter, on top of unbleached coffee filter. The first 2 cleared quickly. Paper is really slow, and there was a bit of sludge in the bottom, so I put it in a glass measuring cup to finish draining after fumbling for a bit.
*While doing this there was a dish of hot water I was using for something. I stuck my finger in and it was 'ouch' hot, and when I pulled my finger out a single drop of water flew off, landing right in the corner of the glass dish with ISO evaping. I could sort-of see it in the liquid, but it seemed to disappear quickly. What should I expect from a single drop of water in 400+ mls of ISO? Otherwise it's crystal clear.
*The evap dish is 12x12, and 400 ml goes up the sides a bit. Should I have used a larger glass dish to expose more surface area for evap? We'll see what's up in the AM.
*I owe the wife a new hair dryer. She hands it to me, I take the big defuser widget off, and she goes 'you might want that', so I put it back on. She says 'make sure it's attached', so I twist to make sure it's attached. It was, but now it's not, and I owe her a new hairdryer. I'd rather have a heat gun. Maybe the shop will have one of each for us?

Anyways, I'm heading to Heat Island with some lovely sleepytime MMJ, feeling pretty OK about the first wash and wondering what to expect in the AM. Whatever it is it'll be a fun experiment, and I wouldn't have tried it without the forum - thanks again (I think - will validate in am :)
 
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mvapes

mvapes

Scratchin' Glass!
Accessory Maker
I saw on Instagram that knotty (renowned oil maker) is selling his own 5 micron screens.

My favorites are the 20 cause they're more flexible and easy to manipulate.

I can't even imagine a fucking 5.
 
D

DrRishi

Well-Known Member
I am using a 50 micron screen behind a much larger screen which is built into my SS blasting pipe.
Is this screen too big? Am I letting stuff through that should not be in my final product?

On the vac discussion. I decided to bite the bullet and get a vac setup. In total it cost me €250 because I was too lazy to build it myself. For this money I have a 1.5 gallon SS chamber, a perspex lid with 2 valves and a meter and finally a 1.5 CFM vacuum pump. In the US I believe the setup would cost about $250 and then you will probably have a more powerful pump.

I was quite shocked to see how much butane came out of my BHO when I switched on the pump with some BHO that I thought I had purged well in a hot water bath. This made me very happy that I had not made too many batches before I had the vac setup. Whatever the reality is the vacuum certainly gives peace of mind.
 
negan

negan

Well-Known Member
Would vacuum generators that hook up to air compressors work? I have one I used with some composite layup. I since lost my compressor, but would rather spend $400ish on a new compressor (that I can use for a lot of things) than $200ish for a vacuum pump.

Here is the one I have - http://www.fibreglast.com/product/1148_Vacuum_Generator/Vacuum_Bagging_Pumps
capable of producing 30–70 psi at 3.5 CFM. It creates a venturi-style vacuum that pulls 2.2 CFM at 27" Hg

They now also sell a version for smaller compressors - http://www.fibreglast.com/product/high-efficiency-vacuum-generator-02229/Vacuum_Bagging_Pumps
capable of producing 30–75 psi at 1.6 CFM, it creates a venturi-style vacuum that pulls 1.6 CFM at 26" Hg

If these can be used, might be a good alternative for people who already have an air compressor.
 
negan,
killick

killick

But I like it!
NickDlow said:
Ditch the coffee filters completely a go to 316twholsale.com a get a 50 and 10 micron SS screen. If not the 50 definatly the 10. Also they can be cut to size just email them first
Click to expand...

I have a 50 mm ss screen on an Aeropress - I'll give that a shot next time for the dregs... no new equipment til we move (I hear that sentence in my wife's voice...)

Thanks again - everything looks OK. Will do some scrapemagic in a bit and see how things look, but so far so good.
 
mvapes

mvapes

Scratchin' Glass!
Accessory Maker
A compressor makes air as opposed to a vacuum which sucks it. Very different, even compression fittings are different. I also wouldn't suggest using your vac with anything else as your sucking flammable material through it.

Now, it doesn't make a difference if you get a vacuum pump designed for refrigerant or the automobile industry. They both do the same thing.

Although most found in auto supply stores are typically single stage. Which is fine btw - they're just a bit noisy.
 
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negan

negan

Well-Known Member
The vacuum generator that I linked to attaches to a hose from an air compressor and creates the vacuum using the venturi effect. I'm just wondering if the vacuum generator generates enough of a vacuum, 2.2 CFM at 27" Hg in the case of the one I have. I guess I'll look at the specs of the popular vacuum pumps people use to see if they are close to that.
 
negan,
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