Best of the Underdog Vaporizer thread

KidFated. said:

@SirElton compare the GonG to simple glass straw? Or pretty damn similar? I've been using my gong dry and loving it, debating on picking up some simple glass stems..

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Do you have a Classic UD?
I know I'm not SirElton and I'm interested in his outlook on the subject as well, but here's my take.

Simple glass stems are nice but I have issues with the glass being too thin (or silicone to smooth) for it to stay firmly connected to the silicone. After a bit of usage the silicone seems to not stick to the glass and the glass slides around and/or your silicone will slide off. The screens also get moved too easily or the glass will move your screen or move away from it.

Thick silicone stems are really nice as they seem to provide thick heavy hits and for the classic core it fits firm and is unlikely to fall off (disconnect itself) from the heatport.

Shorty GonG works well and great because of the height though the new gong yields good improvements, I believe I had a video in the T-Vape thread using the shorty, but no milk. Its very similar to the current glass stem Dave offers but isn't meant for the formed screen, it hits pretty airy but that is beneficial for bigger loads through water. The screen for the shorty is its biggest downside, I've had my incidents where I am attempting to stir and it topples on me, placing also isn't as great as the formed screen. I do wish there was a shorter current gong.

The current GonG adds length and has a similar fitting to the shorty gong. It uses formed screens which are a huge improvement and allow for the ability to change the screen's position.



TL;DR - ? Silicone encloses on the heatport more firmly than glass creating less excess air being drawn and giving more direct heat with less cool air, I don't believe silicone works the same on new/current models. Just my interpretation, I believe silicone stems to hit similar to nylon stems but with the ability for screen placement.

On a side note, I use the GonG for DD more than for water, and it looks like Elton's stems with silicone are all using thick silicone, I eventually just cut more thick silicone to get smallers pieces to use them with the glass liners as they were more stable for putting in screens and holding the stem. I currently use Hammer OG stems with thin silicone for my UD.

drewper said:

What this is, hammer stem? I searched and all I found was a technique to make a screen wider by whacking the domed part to fit more snugly in a stem. Hammer stem sounds too badass to miss out on...

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It's a stem from a different vaporizer know as The Hammer. It's in the portable vapes section. It's nothing revolutionary but works well with my Dog.

Heres a pic

Hey everyone, thanks for all your patience waiting while we worked on this refresh and really also the month or two leading up to it. I'm excited to have some pieces on the website again and to also be able to finally announce some items that have made the jump from R&D to production.

First off, we're once again offering a VVPS and same as last time one will be included with each Underdog sold. Actually we have two VVPS options, a travel model and a desktop model.. lets start with a picture.

• The Travel VVPS - is a super small package which takes a master DC input (included) on the back and provides an adjustable DC output on the front via a short (non user replaceable) pigtail cord next to its LED readout. A 90° extension cord (a 6' one is included) is connected to the pigtail and then to the vape. Since power supply cords tend to fail at the vape end from flexing over time the use of extensions allows for quick and easy replacement by the user in such an event. Output adjustment on this model is made via a small screw accessed thru a hole in the top (mini screwdriver not included) and while not designed for constant adjustment is easy to do. It comes set at a standard operating voltage of approximately 12.8v but can go as low as 4v or high enough to damage your Dog so caution when adjusting is needed. This model is not designed for 24/7 use and should ideally be unplugged (from the rear) when not in use.

• The Desktop VVPS - is a larger (though still small) package which takes the same master DC input (included) on the back and also has it's output on the front near its LED readout. This model does not use a pigtail and instead has a jack to plug in whatever length extension cord you desire (a 6' one is included). Output adjustment is easily made via the knob on top and allows for easy adjustment without fumbling around or blocking view of the LED. This model will output voltage as low as 4v and is limited on the upper end to a boost voltage of 13.x volts. This model is designed for 24/7 use if desired and is happy if kept at a standby voltage of 5-6v when not in use.

• Both the Travel and Desktop kits come with the master DC wall-wart that feeds them, the VVPS itself and a 6' 90° extension cord. Currently we aren't planning on selling them individually and only offering them as part of the standard kit with UDs. We will however figure out a way to let those of you who have bought Dogs recently pick one up for as low a cost as we can, message us for details if this applies to you.

Many thanks go to one of our own FC members (and inventors) who was kind enough to do some consulting work for us and help us come up with a design that best suited our needs and that we could build in-house (like everything we do lol) to our own specs. It might have taken a few months and cost us some money but now we've got 2 great VVPS options, built in-house and was able to compensate someone for their work instead of just copying/stealing it. Many, many thanks!

Next we finally have a Shorty GonG (14mm) and also a Shorty NonG (18mm). The GonG we've been offering as a special order for a while and the NonG is totally new and inspired by Rick's shortie pieces he used to make for his Zaps. How about pics?

• The GonG is available in 14mm only and the NonG in 18mm only. We're finding the NonG to be great for concentrates and/or for power hits on larger glass pieces. I'm sure you'll all find many uses for both of them and we look forward to hearing about them.

Mini Formed Screens - just like we were the first to bring you Formed Screens last year for use in your Direct Draw and 14mm GonG stems we're doing so again but for your Nylon Stems. Yep that's right, little bitty formed screens for your Nylon Stems and the new 18mm NonG stem. These little guys are a breeze to install (and to remove for cleaning) and allow you to adjust the size of your bowls on these stems now as well as your glass ones. These little guys are available on the website now and starting in a month or two all new Nylon Stems and NonGs will come with a formed screen pre-installed as we phase out the old style ones. We will maintain a small stock of the old style screens on the website for those of you who prefer them.




Lastly, a possible new vape type for you all..

The AirCore Underdog

• These will be low priced at $159 and will include 4 stems and a VVPS like regular Dogs.

We've been offering these as a custom built option for the latter half of last year and are now considering making them a standard production item but will base that decision on the demand and your feedback. The design is a modified standard UD core that has been tweaked to have a slightly decreased thermal mass and it's internal air-gap changed to suit that lower mass. It's been optimized to run with Nylon Stems and the new NonGs and does not have the toothed ring at the top of standard UDs that acts as a positive stop for our glass stems. It basically packs the maximum heat-punch possible to the small enclosed bowls found on the various stainless steel tipped stems. We haven't made the final decision to build these as a standard stocked item yet and are waiting to decide based on further feedback.. that being said we have a number of final Beta units left over and are going to sell them to experienced UD'ers who would like one. Anyone interested contact myself or Underdogette directly and we'll make it happen. At least until we run out of the Betas, after that we'll have to decide whether to add them to production or not. A couple of you UDs around here might have been part of our test group and already have one, if so you're free to talk about them now, thanks!

Alright Dogs that's all for now. There's so much new stuff I might well have missed something, if so I'll take care of it later lol. Right now Underdogette and I need to take a much deserved break for dinner but will be back to answer questions later this evening. Enjoy!

Hey Dogs, just dropping in with a quick question for you all in regards to our new VVPS options.

The VVPS themselves can not be hooked up to your classic UD power supplies (wall-wart) since those are AC voltage and will ruin the VVPS.

The VVPS come packaged with their own special wall-wart to feed them the DC voltage source they need but these wall-warts can not be plugged directly into the vapes as they are too high of voltage (17v) and will rapidly overheat a vape and cause damage.

We went with the 17v power supply because it was the best value (ie, saves you all money) and we found them to be a nice, solid, reliable power supply. We've been including a warning note in each package noting the above restrictions but have already received a couple messages from people who either didn't read, didn't understand or ignored the warnings.

So, as actual users of our products, do any of you have suggestions on how to make all this more clear to people and hopefully head off further problems?

As a long term solution I'll work on finding another power supply, one with a lower output voltage but for now these are the best we've encountered and I have several hundred left in stock to go through. Not to mention the price aspect, we're not making these VVPS to make a profit on them, just making them as a value-added service to our customers and would hate to have to raise prices $5-$10/ea to cover a more expensive power supply if we don't have to.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be super appreciated.. we want you guys to have the best UD experience possible so help us help you.

Cool, just figured I'd make sure about the turning it carefully.. sometimes it's easy to zoom past a particular voltage. Anywho, if you decide you want more juice just let me know and I'll take care of it for you.

All in all how are you enjoying the VVPSs so far? We've had a couple bumps in the road with little things like the output range but not to bad I think for a brand new product that we're still dialing in and refining as we go.

Thanks for the feedback Sleepin, not too critical at all.

All the points you bring up are good ones and we looked at many of them during R&D and testing but for various reasons ended up lacking many of them on the current designs. I'll try to keep my response short but also address some of them for those of you who like the inside scoop.

1. Yeah, this one is about cost - the wall-wart I'm including with the VVPS was just too good a value (and is a good, solid power supply) to pass up but requires a 2.5mm jack vs the more common 2.1mm. It also has too high an output voltage (17v) to be used directly with the vapes which is a bummer. We might well change to a different power supply once we run out of these but I'm not looking forward to the $10-$15 price difference it would bring.
   
   
2. Outputs is a tough one. I'd like it if the Travel VVPS had an output jack instead of the current permanently attached pigtail but there isn't room in the box unless we went with side-by-side jacks on the back instead of input on the back and output on the front like the current design. Not sure why but I really don't care for the output on the back, it bugs the crap out of me for some reason. Then again I'm not the customer, you guys are so maybe we'll switch if people want us to. As far as the type of output goes (on the Desktop) and it's need for an male-to-male adapter - if I could find a panel mount, male plug instead I'd consider using it but I've never come across one.. do they exist? A male-to-male cable would be nice and work instead but they don't seem to be readibly available in a variety of sizes like the male-female extensions we use and I really don't care for shop-made cables when they can be avoided.
   
   
3. An on/off switch on the Travel VVPS might be doable if we could find a small enough one but so far I haven't. That tiny box is a PITA to deal with in this regard but it's sooo small that I couldn't help but make it lol. A switch on the Desktop VVPS would be easily doable other than adding a bit of cost on materials and labor, maybe we'll revise the design to include one. Using the knob to 'turn off' the Desktop doesn't actually really de-energize the circuit but drops the output to about .5v and blanks the screen. Not really 'off' per se but kind of a 'sleep' setting for lack of a better word I guess.

I suppose the crux of things is that I'm trying to include these things with the vapes without jacking the price up which unfortunately means that every one that goes out the door actually costs me money instead of making money. If people choose the option to upgrade to the Desktop VVPS (not the option for both, just the Desktop) I break even but either of the other two options I take a loss. Because of that I've optimized the design, as best as possible, to get the best value for the money - not necessary the best overall design.

Granted we could make the design a bit better and sell the VVPS instead of include the basic Travel one. Problem with that though is that we make everything and I mean everything, in-house, by hand, ourselves and that really takes a lot of time. So I could make a better VVPS for sale but it would take time away that I usually spend making Dogs and so would be a bit of a toss up.

I'm sure we'll refine the design over time and do our best to give you guys all the best experience we can as usual. Just a matter of how much time, money and energy we have lol.

At any rate we really appreciate all the great feedback you guys are always giving us, it really helps us evolve the Pups over time. We also really enjoy being able to spend our days making these vapes for everyone and seeing/hearing how much everyone enjoys using them!

Rock on Dogs, rock on.

Buildozer said:

The Air Cores are only for nylon stems???
I've been wanting to get a good look at the Air Core model.. Are there any good pictures of any of the Air Core dogs yet? If so can, some one please point me to them..
I'm glad to see you offering new things Dave
And I'm glad to see so many new, happy UD owners around here lately.

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Yes and no.. the AirCore was made for optimized use with the Nylon Stems and the 18mm NonG.

The primary visible difference between it and the standard core is the lack of the top star washer on the top of the core. The internal spacing (air gap) is changed a little too but that's not something you can see from the outside.

The top star washer on the standard core is what provides a stop for the various glass stems to sit on and limit how far they insert over the core center tube. Since the AirCore lacks this star washer it has no stop for the glass stems and they'll insert over the center tube until it hits something in the stem to stop it like the screen or your material. So, the AirCore WILL work with the various glass stems it just requires more careful use and isn't really a hands-free solution like the standard core.

Hope that clarifies things a bit?

@KidFated. & @catbird - thanks for being such good community members and contributing to answering questions, it's appreciated!

iVapeTooMuch said:

can anybody explain the differences between the nylon and glass stems or point me to a page where there is a discussion about such? My main concern is ease of cleaning.

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As far as cleaning, I find glass stems slightly easier to clean. Because, well, ISO is very effective, they are transparent, and in this case, also wider. For the nylon stems I've been removing the screen and cleaning that separately, and cleaning the stem with a straw brush/pipe-cleaner type thing, and running hot water through it, with maybe a little soap. That's been working well, but I also haven't let them get too much build-up between washes. I imagine I'd put them through the dishwasher if I had one -- can they withstand this? or boiling to sterilize? Seems like they'd do fine.

The main differences as far as utility are that with the nylon stems you load the stainless steel end piece that sits inside the center tube, which may feel slightly sturdier in use than the glass stems which are wider and sit around the tube. Also, because the nylon stem is narrower, it contains a smaller screen and there is less space between where the load sits and the heating element, so smaller loads can be vaporized effectively, though IMO the glass stems do just fine with a pretty minimal amount of material.

I expected I would use the glass, but find myself using nylon stems more because of the smaller loads, and because they're not fragile/are more portable. Also when I use glass stems I'm compelled to incessantly clean them, so it actually helps me that nylon stems hide debris a bit (I sold a glass table I owned for this reason). In theory I might think I prefer glass because of the purity of taste and integrity of the material, but I don't find that the nylon interferes with flavor or has a perceptible taste. I am looking forward to the glass stems with a stainless end piece, I think those could potentially usurp the nylon as my stem of choice, but I'm really happy with the current stems and the durability of the nylon ended up being more of a factor for me than I would have anticipated.

@catbird - the Nylon Stems are definitely good to be run in the dishwasher. Hot water is fine too though I wouldn't recommend actual boiling temps as that might be too hot. To clean mine I use the test tubes they ship in, fill it half full of ISO and add a pinch of salt (coarse ground) and shake until clean then rinse with warm water. They come out squeaky clean in maybe 10-20 seconds of shaking. :-)

::edited to add:: The above is also how I clean my glass stems and my various glass water tools as well.

Toastface_Killah said:

Sorry for the uninformed question, but I've been using an SSV and an Arizer Solo for over 2 years now and am thinking about branching out....none of the commercial vapes out there seem to offer anything new that I don't already get with my current vapes.

I've always heard of log vapes being apparently amazing and top tier, and the Underdog has always been the name I have heard other than the discontinued purple days...but I also have heard some things about log vapes being easy to have combustion in if you are not careful (which I do not want to do at all), as well as having to maintain them and worry about humidity stuff..

If I take the plunge, I'll probably just settle for one of the basic ones for sale on the Underdog site itself since I'm not too picky at this moment about a crazy wood type, but are my worries that big of a deal or are they easy to manage?

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@Toastface_Killah - hi and welcome to the community. I do think Log Vapes are a great class of vapes and a frequently overlooked one at that. Obviously I'm a bit biased as usual but I think Underdogs are very easy to maintain and basically require no work other than not abusing them too much and cleaning ones stems and the stem cleaning isn't even technically a requirement.. I know plenty of people who don't bother lol. Moisture is a non-issue unless you live somewhere with a truly massive relative humidity and plan on leaving an UD turned off for months on end and even then it's shouldn't really be a problem to be honest. Combustion shouldn't be an issue either, if you combust with an Underdog you're either doing something wrong, your Pup setup needs adjusting or in the case of a few people I know you're doing it on purpose.

KidFated. said:

You should have zero worries! Except breaking stems! (My fault)

@underdog @catbird
I don't even wanna start to explain, today is just not my day. :/

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If you were to pick up a cheap little glass cutter and a propane torch you could cut that stem down, flame polish the edges and turn it in to a Shortie GonG.


::edited to add::

Ooops, forgot I had another picture to share. I was going thru some cutoffs (short pieces of leftover wood) in the shop the other day and found a special one I'd 'lost'. I decied to turn it into a nice little small traveling Dog for myself. Some of you 'old timers' around here might recognize it as the remainder of the special piece that went to our good friend @Abysmal Vapor way back in the day. Enjoy!

My dog arrived It's raining out so indoor photo's only , but he's BEAUTIFUL I wanna thank @underdog @underdogette and @Snappo again I'll take him for a test spin soon

So I just got word @VaPeD&CoNfUsEd finished getting the UD stems ready to rock and roll!! If you didn't knew he's been doing custom glass stems for other log vapes and I was extremely interested. Of course now that my dog is across the country they're available. I guess that means I better get my shit together!

This is what he has on hand but he'll do whatever you want!

catbird said:

Yes, I am doing that, and will have to find my preferred temp again. I guess my concern is about Dave's maintenance guidelines. Like if 12.8 is hotter than it's meant to be... But that's me being compulsive, I can certainly adjust max voltage and standing voltage by feel well enough. Thanks!

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Since you're using a VVPS you can probably rule out a voltage change causing a rise in heat but there are a few possible things it could be, or it's possible that it just feels hotter but actually isn't. Late here and I'm tired after a long day but I'll throw some ideas out below..

Voltage wise 12.8v isn't too high for the vape, it might be too hot but the voltage isn't too high if that makes sense. For sake of comparison the stock wall-wart runs the UD at near max power and puts out 13.25v approximately.

The way the heating elements work if there is a problem there will be a decrease in heat not an increase so you don't have to worry about any kind of fault in that regard.

Cord length will affect the heat, the longer the cord the cooler the vape will run. If you'd been using it with say a 20' extension and you changed to a 6' one you'd probably notice an increase in temp for example.

Heat up time will make a difference if you've got any variation there. For example at 13v an UD might feel 'warm' after being on for 1hr but after being on for 3hrs would probably feel quite hot.

Ambient temperature can make a difference as well, more so than one might think.

The surface on which the vape is sitting can also make a difference. Sitting on a tile counter-top for example might cause the Dog to feel cooler than if it were sitting on a wooden table.

Not sure if any of those possibilities applies to your situation but figured I'd throw them out there just in case. I find myself adjusting my voltage with the Dog I'm currently using between 12.6v and 12.9v depending on some of the above factors while using a 6' cord (just to give you a comparison scenario).

Dave @underdog has done it again Look at this beauty, made from @Snappo's exotic wood and i also got an extra surprise in my package Snappo is gonna tell me to take photo's outside in the sun, but HELL NO it's too damn hot outside today.
Time to meet LUCAN

Nehi said:

So I've noticed that my core seems to have loosened up a little bit. My pup is still working fine but I am just wondering if this is something that I need to be concerned about?

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Some of the woods tighten up on the core as they age and some loosen a bit instead.. either way it shouldn't present any issues at all. The only exception to that would be if you inadvertently twisted the core inside the body which could cause the wires going from the core to the power plug to short or break.

If you're handy you could always put another snap ring in the top which sometimes helps tighten things back up, or you could send it to us and we could do it.. but again, it shouldn't be a problem.

Hope you've been enjoying the Dog!

Hey Underdogs! Thanks for all the compliments - plenty of gorgeous woods making their way into the refresh line up. Which makes this a good time to announce our new referral program.

From now on, we'll be offering a 10% store credit to referrer and 5% credit to referee for all vape orders. Just log into your account (and click on My Account) on the Underdog website to find your referral ID code and/or send your friends a special link with your referral ID.

When they purchase a vape using your referral ID during check out, you'll receive 10% of their entire order's subtotal in store credit and they'll receive 5% as an added bonus to use toward their next order. You'll see your store credit in your account and it will automatically be applied to your next online order.

We know that you're already spreading the word of Underdog, but we wanted to reward you guys for it. So log in, refer your friends and enjoy some free loot!

Hey Dogs, as many of you know we've been super busy the last 3-4 months working on some of our 'top secret projects' and I'm happy to report it's finally time for us to share some details with you all.

We've been on a mission to really grow and improve in the past year and as part of that we wanted to get more Dogs into more peoples hands so we decided we'd open a small retail shop, a little Underdog showroom if you will.

So we now have a place, in a small building shared with a nice head shop Blaze 'N J's, where people can come check out the Dogs in person. You'll also be able to pick up any accessories you need, place custom orders and have us make adjustments to your existing Dog(s) should you need them.

We know most of you here aren't local to our area but we're excited and wanted to share anyways. We've invested a lot of time, effort and resources into this business and are proud of how far it's come in the past 5 years and we thank you all very much for your support!

Enough rambling, time for a couple pics.. more will certainly follow down the road as we get more organized and set up.





If you're in northern California or feel like making a road trip come and see us and all the Dogs!
(address and info here)

[URL='http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/best-of-the-underdog-vaporizer-thread.16639/'] [/URL]

It's sooooo beautiful!! I knew it would be sick, but DAMN!! Pictures are comin!


These two came today, my pod dog and open box solo

New products available on the website: Stainless Steel Stem Tips (like in nylon and NonG stems) and Baby Soda Bottles - which make great stash jars.

Here are my beyond amazing Underdog pups - meet Macro & Micro!!!

Incredible job Dave and Amanda are doing. I'm so happy for you and your customers. I must admit, looking over your thread I got some nostalgia blues. It was a fun ride making some neat functional art that made a lot of folks happy. But, alas, what is, is and what isn't, isn't.
Keep up the good work. You two make me feel good. It was good to meet and visit with you.......3 days before the drug warriors hit Zapville. Did you know they actually rushed their plans because of our meeting and me posting on FC about it? They had to get me while the gettin' was good.
Beautiful stuff you are doing and excellent customer service!

Aircore UD and orbiter combo is amazing.

123vapethattree said:

The one that was just posted like a page or two ago? Really shows the effectiveness of the Underdog. Is it advised to take the stem out after each hit? Is shipping quick usually?

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We ship 90% of orders within 1-2 business days and only ship Priority Mail which delivers anywhere in the USA in 1-3 days so depending where you're at you're looking at 2-5 days with most being delivered 3-4 days after order.

We don't recommend leaving stems on the vape between hits as it needlessly heats the stem up and also changes the thermal qualities of the core while attached. The UD has enough thermal mass that putting/leaving stems on for 'preheating' or whatever isn't needed.

123vapethattree said:

Thanks for the quick help. Now I just have to play the waiting game. How often do you apply the wax that comes with the underdog? On the subject of wax, is that what the copper cup is intended for? I have never used wax or anything like that and have recently gained access to it.

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The wax application is totally up to you, anywhere from daily to monthly to never. Think of it as chapstick or moisturizer for the wood. The heat of operation will slowly dry the wood out and you just wax and recondition it whenever you feel it's looking sad and dry. Payton already addressed the other wax question so I'll defer to him.

HSIHP said:

These birthday dogs are really stretching me thin! I totally want to dive in but I am pretty happe here with my Nano. For those that have both, is there something about the ud that would compliment the Nano or are they functionally similar?

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Really I think Underdog or Nano is like asking Mac or PC, Ford or Chevy, Pepsi or Coke as they are functionally similar though of different design. They both get the same job done in a similar fashion. Both have pros and cons though I'll leave that alone as I'm obviously biased towards UDs.

Shit Snacks said:

Cleaning my screens for the first time, after several weeks of use. Started to notice a clog and difficulty getting good hits, so I rigged this up to soak just the screens in iso

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Pretty simple yet smart cleaning setup you've got there man.. might have to copy that lol.

123vapethattree said:

So for the thick clouds, do you guys have to use the WPS adapter to achieve that or is there a technique to how you hit it?

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Hard to say - many people (us included) get 'clouds' just fine with the stock wall-wart.. even with a 6' extension in our case. Play around with different strains (if possible), longer heat up times, etc. The tips Magic9 posted are good suggestions too even though he was referring to them for those running hot they also could apply to you (if inverse). If after trying some of that it's still anemic let us know and we can look at other ideas and options.

Kif-Kif said:

I suspect I'm running too hot. The herb at the end of the tube is getting black. Hits taste toasted from the first one.

I don't have a VVPS, anything I can do?

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If that's from a Nylon Stem then I'd say it's probably pretty normally that dark after a heavy hit or 3, if glass then you should probably adjust the screen a bit farther back from the heater. Best/easiest way to lower the temp a bit is to add an extension (or more than one) cord to lower your voltage. A DC extension cord I should say, not an AC one.. we have them on the website.

Peccary said:

I just ordered an Underdog yesterday. I'm looking forward to giving it a go!

This forum (and this thread in particular) really helped me make my decision. I spent a couple of months researching vapes and the Underdog was the one I kept coming back to.

Thanks, Underdog, for having your birthday sale. My ruptured disc thanks you

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Thank YOU for the business and welcome to the 'pack'. Hope you enjoy the Dog!