I hope eCigs don't ruin it for vaporists

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Glad I am past needing one of these, but I would be just as afraid of the liquids as the device. Nature only knows what chemicals and substances might contribute to a better "experience" for the user. I can see a lot of ways this could go badly...
 
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olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
Article doesnt make much sense to me. I know chinese products can be low quality and also made with poor quality parts. But just look at your typical joyeetech ecig, buttom part of the ecig is not part of the airpath and is only used for heating. So the only concern would be tanks, which there are plenty of name brands to choose from
 
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Nesta

Well-Known Member
Modnote: This post and the following were merged into this thread.

China’s E-Cigarette Boom Lacks Oversight for Safety-

Producing 90% of World’s Devices,
With Hazards for Health of Users

Here’s a front-page article from today’s NY Times about the safety (or lack of it) of E-Cigarettes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/b...p-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below&_r=0

While this may not seem to be a concern for most of us here, unless you’re an e-cigarette user, we could all be swept up in the hysteria & regulations when the politicians swing into action.

Here’s an excerpt. It refers to e-cigarettes but it’s probably relevant to some of the cheaper herb vapes, & maybe some of the pricier ones as well:

“…Hundreds of e-cigarette manufacturers in China operate with little oversight. Experts say flawed or sloppy manufacturing could account for some of the heavy metals, carcinogens and other dangerous compounds, such as lead, tin and zinc, that have been detected in some e-cigarettes.

One study found e-cigarette vapor that contained hazardous nickel and chromium at four times the level they appear in traditional cigarette smoke; another found that half the e-cigarettes sampled malfunctioned and some released vapor tainted with silicon fibers. There have also been reports in the United States of e-cigarettes that exploded after a lithium ion battery or electric charger overheated, causing burns.”


I don’t use e-cigarettes so I haven’t closely followed the story about regulating e-cig vapes. But I sense a big storm on the horizon. I’ve gotten some of my info from @pakalolo. So Pak, I’d be interested to hear what you have to say. Should we be worried?
 
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KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
Silicone as in most portables vapes? Hazardous nickel... like the screens in my FlowerMates? Or chromium like in all our stainless steel bowls and screens?

I'll repaste here what I answered in the other thread about that article:

"One study found e-cigarette vapor that contained hazardous nickel and chromium at four times the level they appear in traditional cigarette smoke; another found that half the e-cigarettes sampled malfunctioned and some released vapor tainted with silicon fibers."

I'm really unsure it's just about e-cigs, we should be concerned by our vapes too as nearly all of them have Chinese parts inside...

EDIT: imagine how ironic it would be if these studies were funded by Big Tobacco, in order to disrupt this new market that they failed to seize...
 
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Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
remember, e-cigs run at 1/2 the temperature of what herbal vaporizers are running, because the PG/VG solution vaporizes at a much lower temperature.

and while the metals are inherently safe, it really all depends on how they are processed into the e-cig device.
 

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
From wikipedia: "Current e-cigarettes arose from an invention made by Hon Lik in China in 2003,[15] and devices are mostly manufactured in China.[1]"

And in another thread, I've been told by a FC member most e-juice and nicotine also come from China. See also this thread answer: http://forums.aussievapers.com/e-ci...-where-does-our-nicotine-come.html#post242122

I just don't see any "marlboro" or "camel" e-juice around, mostly small unknown brands. That FC member (can't find the post back sorry) also told me e-juice was marketed as an aid to stop smoking, which is against big tobacco interests too...

So I'm not under the impression they really control that market much, but maybe I'm wrong.

EDIT: read also http://spinfuel.com/can-foreign-nicotine-be-dangerous/ where they claim it's mostly from India rather than China
 
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foofoo

Well-Known Member
The main takeaway I got from the article was that there's a lack of manufacturing regulations, which has implications in quality, consistency, and safety.

I'd be curious if any vape manufacturers (e.g., W9tech) or producers of pre-filled carts come out with statements about quality control and standards.
 
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wm762

Product Tester / Reviewer
If there's a lack of manufacturing regulations, which has implications in quality, consistency, and safety, then we need to make this into a movement. This attitude should be brought up a bit more around here.
 
wm762,

Egzoset

Banned
Salutations Nesta,

While this may not seem to be a concern for most of us here... ...I sense a big storm on the horizon.

Maybe there's no storm yet but we had a hint of some clouds coming last fall...



...

4.4.2
Electronic nicotine delivery systems, electronic cigarettes/non-nicotine delivery systems

...

Provisional report of the sixth session... (Octobre 13 – 18, 2014)

Second report of Committee A (FCTC/COP/6/A/R/2)


...sections 53, 57, 59 et 105...

  • non-nicotine electronic delivery systems
  • electronic non-nicotine delivery systems
  • ENNDS

...

« It was subsequently agreed to use wording similar to that appearing in the drafting group’s report: “prevent unproven health claims from being made about ENDS”. »

« Parties emphasized the importance of State sovereignty and the need for States to abide by all their international legal obligations... »

:peace:
 

Pappy

shmaporist
:myday:
Everything from dog food to pharmaceuticals has been tainted by unregulated manufacturing practices in China. eCigs are no different. To @steama's point it wouldn't be surprising if Big Tobacco isn't behind a propaganda campaign to differentiate itself as the White Knight manufacturers of "safe "eCigs. The fact remains herbal vaporizers (as in FC users) are at the forefront of the vaporizer movement and as such will receive most of the flak!
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Does Europe or do particular countries in the EU/GB world have an active anti smoking movement like we have in the US? Almost every European I know still smokes, and I really don't know if that is indicative of the whole continent...

The same is true of a large percentage of the Asian folks I know who were not born here. Most smoke...
 
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NorVape

Vape Rictim
@cybrguy Our impression here in the north are that continental Europeans still smoke alotta tobacco, but here in the north people don't really smoke anymore though, unless they're veeeery white trash, as you say.

It has changed alot the last ten years. Snus is bigger than ever tho
 
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Pappy

shmaporist
I'm such a grass snob that my friend who owns a dispensary gave me a prepackaged eCig with Jack Herer oil as a practical joke. Looked like something you'd find at a truck stop, a novelty that sits in my drawer unopened. Prolly would get you high but who knows on what?
 

Enchantre

Oil Painter
Silicone as in most portables vapes? Hazardous nickel... like the screens in my FlowerMates? Or chromium like in all our stainless steel bowls and screens?

I'll repaste here what I answered in the other thread about that article:

"One study found e-cigarette vapor that contained hazardous nickel and chromium at four times the level they appear in traditional cigarette smoke; another found that half the e-cigarettes sampled malfunctioned and some released vapor tainted with silicon fibers."

Silicone as in most portables vapes? Hazardous nickel... like the screens in my FlowerMates? Or chromium like in all our stainless steel bowls and screens?

I'm really unsure it's just about e-cigs, we should be concerned by our vapes too as nearly all of them have Chinese parts inside...

EDIT: imagine how ironic it would be if these studies were funded by Big Tobacco, in order to disrupt this new market that they failed to seize...
I think the contaminate is SILICA, not SILICONE.

silica, from the fiberglass wicks. Silicosis. All that stuff.
 

notmyrealUSERname

Notmy Well-Known Member
remember, e-cigs run at 1/2 the temperature of what herbal vaporizers are running, because the PG/VG solution vaporizes at a much lower temperature.

and while the metals are inherently safe, it really all depends on how they are processed into the e-cig device.

^ this is not true. they actually run at the same temp range as is required to vape/combust dry herb 300F-600F.

After exhaustive experimentation Big Tobacco is discovering what any newbie on FC could've told them. Heating below combustion is the only safe delivery system. eCigs melting some oil concoction as opposed to heating herb below combustion is like chewing coca leaves compared to smoking crack.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/25/b...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

check out the dna40 chip that runs a number of ecig mods. its a temperature regulating device that works with amazing accuracy. i am quite surprised that i haven't seen it mentioned anywhere on fc. this chip will revolutionize both the ecig world, and i Predict that it will become the standard for herb world too!

i will start a thread about the dna40 chip, ill probably put it in the wrong section...
 

notmyrealUSERname

Notmy Well-Known Member
@steama You can't regulate, you can only educate.

ok ill try to educate yall


That cheap Chinese eCigs can be made from deceptively dangerous materials won't be lost on FCers. Unfortunately, I won't be surprised if politicians use these findings to vilify medical grade vaporizers as well. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/b...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

ive had time to read this article and it seems to me that its been written in order to spread misinformation and confuse the uniformed reader.

Article doesnt make much sense to me. I know chinese products can be low quality and also made with poor quality parts. But just look at your typical joyeetech ecig, buttom part of the ecig is not part of the airpath and is only used for heating. So the only concern would be tanks, which there are plenty of name brands to choose from


^ this is correct. the vapor path of any typical ecig will contain stainless steel, pryrex glass or plastic tanks, and nickel from the coil, and wicking material which can be made from either cotton, silica, bio ceramic cloth, stainless steel mesh etc. all of these materials are safe at the proper temps.

the problem is when the wicking material gets burned = carinogens. this happens for a variety of reasons, such as using high % VG nic juice, drawing to fast and too long, overheating the coil, not enough juice in the tank, etc - if youve ever experienced a dry hit youll know its terrible. Is also almost impossible to finish inhaling a dry hit.

however, lets remember that the whole point of vaping is to NOT SMOKE CIGS. ecigs are a LESS HARMFUL alternative to cigs they're not completely harmless! as with everything research is expensive, and the people doing the research don't always have the same goals in mind as the end user so... the following link is a proposal to research temp

please check this link out - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...867&fb_action_types=indiegogo:contribute#home


it seems to me the greatest harm comes from user error, not from the ecig device or materials used, which is why the dna40 chip has been developed, the computer gives the person the temp they want no matter how long they hold the button or how they draw.

typically a good vape depends on 3 things - juice, airflow, heat. the only way to control the heat on a typical ecig is by pressing the button for varying lengths of time and/or varying your draw speed whilst pushing the button i.e. if you draw fast and hard and push the button for a short time youll experience a cool vape with little vapor production, vs holding the button down for a long time, and drawing slowly youll experience a hotter, denser more flavorful experiece with more vapor production.



After exhaustive experimentation Big Tobacco is discovering what any newbie on FC could've told them. Heating below combustion is the only safe delivery system. eCigs melting some oil concoction as opposed to heating herb below combustion is like chewing coca leaves compared to smoking crack.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/25/b...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

ive had a chance to read this article as well and i dont understand what they are going on about when they state; "e-cigarettes did not deliver enough nicotine to satisfy a smoker’s cravings",

"Along with replicating important sensory aspects of smoking, like taste, the biggest hurdle for the new devices, experts say, is delivering nicotine with the efficiency of a cigarette. Within seconds of taking a drag, a smoker feels the nicotine’s soothing effects because compounds that are produced when tobacco burns are perfectly sized to carry nicotine deep into the lungs allowing the drug to quickly reach the brain. Those same compounds, which are collectively known as tars, also cause cancer and other diseases.

"By comparison, the type of vapor generated by e-cigarettes, experts say, is a less efficient carrier of nicotine than smoke. “There is more deposition in the mouth,” with vapor, said Jeffrey S. Gentry, the chief scientific officer of R.J. Reynolds, a division of Reynolds American."


A study published last year showed that one e-cigarette brand, Njoy, produced levels of nicotine in a user’s blood significantly lower than the amount produced by a cigarette like a Marlboro. As a result, e-cigarette users have frequently turned to larger devices known as vape pens that have bigger batteries that can produce more heat. But more heat to increase nicotine levels may also result in higher levels of toxins and carcinogens, experts say.

Tobacco companies have rushed to increase nicotine levels in their vapor devices."


all of these statements are misleading. delivering nicotine with the efficiency of a cig is not the issue, as any ecig can deliver varying amounts of nicotine in your blood - its quite possible to get nic sick quite quickly when compared to normal cigs and the reason is that Nic ejuice comes different strengths, just like cigs do (lights, extra lights etc).

there is a simple formula to work out how much ejuice you'd need to consume in order to equal your typical habit in number of cigs smoked per day.
typically ejuice comes in 3,6,12,18,24, mg/ml of nicotine. you find the level of nicotine you want by figuring out what your typical nicotine intake was per day. so if your typical cig has 1mg of nicotine in it, and you smoke 25 per day = 25mg/day.
then you simply do the math,
if you vape 8mls of 3mg/ml per day you'd equal your typical days nicotine intake in this example.
if you vape 2mls of 12mg/ml you'd be where you want to be....


some ecigs are much better than others at vaporizing ejuice than others which means in one device i might need 12mg/ml to be satisfied, whereas, in an rebuildable dripping atomizer i would be satisfied with 3mg/ml. the reason being that with the rda your getting much more ejuice per inhale - more nicotine per puff. so to prevent you from getting sick you lower the dose, but you'll use more juice.


"At Philip Morris International’s research center here, where about 300 scientists work, the nicotine chase is headed in several directions. The company says it has spent about $2 billion since 2008 researching cigarette alternatives with much of that effort focused on devices that use tobacco, but heat it, rather than burn it. Though the “safer” cigarettes that Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds introduced decades ago were also heat-not-burn devices — and flopped with smokers — the new products, Philip Morris officials say, are more technologically advanced."




if this is true then smh!! i can't wait to see the results, a vape that they need to check out fc to learn how to builld/use a proper vaporizer!!!
 
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