MiniVAP Vaporizer

Kommyknocker

Well-Known Member
Where else would or could you send it?.. Like you said, the manufacturer is there and if you purchase from them you're surely only left with that one option. I'm unsure about the vapornation thing button is spoken about in the last 5 pages or so. I'm in the UK so..
 
Kommyknocker,

mixchu69

Well-Known Member
This is how I wanted my setup: pax for conduction, mighty for conduction/convection and minivap convection. Does that sound right??? Hopefully, that completes my herbal vape collection
 

MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
This is how I wanted my setup: pax for conduction, mighty for conduction/convection and minivap convection. Does that sound right??? Hopefully, that completes my herbal vape collection

Do you have any need for premium level but stealth/ put in your pocket?
If so, the Crafty might replace the Mighty on your list.
 

Gondee

Member
There are no Teflon coatings on the MV. To be precise theses parts with Teflon are solid pieces of pure Teflon, it's really not the same thing as the stuff you see on pans.

Teflon pans are crap, it's like some kind of weak paint, not really pure Teflon, it's full of additives to make it sprayable. I use stainless steel pans for all purpose cooking, a steel pan for high temperature meat cooking and a ceramic coated pan for eggs.

Ps : I have no idea about the exact version of my firmware.


Thanks for responding. Sorry i have been busy with finals >_<

Im not sure that being pure PTFE changes anything. The tests done about PTFE breaking down at higher temperatures and being susceptible to damage is talking about the material its self. Scratching the teflon bowl liner inside the Vape will still cause teflon material to break loose at the very least but it may not compromise the entire surface. Also the stainless steel liner could bring the internal temperature near teflon much higher and more sustained. What is alarming is this new teflon properties data that did not exist when MiniVap was designed. The physical properties of teflon are now known to be different than originally advertised to OEMS such as Herms. I still think its worth it for us to test the internal temperatures to see if under and case it heats to 400+ degrees, where a scratched surface could become toxic. Teflon is no longer to be used in any application that is consumption based (USA), which obviously the MiniVap is, so its important. I use the MiniVap daily, so i think we deserve peace of mind

Additionally, I cannot find the tests for outgassing, only people claiming it occurred. If someone has the source to this please post the link, but to date, there exists either no public record or data of the tests.
------

Just for laughs, heres my setup. I really haven't done much with the flexi cone because its just such a bitch to load bowls with that. This way i can just pre load, drop in, and go. Also, the MiniVap website claims they are only good for 25 uses, which I'm not sure about ahah.

1. Most of my "work" is done mobile :)
2014_12_05_13_10_01.jpg

2. Tools for others water pieces
2014_12_05_13_10_19.jpg

3. Desktop mode (Battery Used usually)
2014_12_05_13_11_26.jpg

4. Mobile Mode (Battery Used usually)
2014_12_05_13_11_59.jpg
 
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exit

Well-Known Member
What part of the miniVAP is teflon?

IIRC PTFE is dangerous after slightly below 400 degrees F, but also it is my understanding that the miniVAP was tested to be sure it was safe and had no output of unwanted substances or gases.
 
exit,

Gondee

Member
What part of the miniVAP is teflon?

IIRC PTFE is dangerous after slightly below 400 degrees F, but also it is my understanding that the miniVAP was tested to be sure it was safe and had no output of unwanted substances or gases.

This is why I think its critical that we test the internal temperature while in use of those components. Just to avoid confusion, I am not claiming that the minivan is dangerous in any way, I just want clarity about this.

1. The funnel part of the bowl is pure PTFE (Teflon)
2. The Cone with the screen attached is pure PTFE as well.

I am still searching for those tests, but as of yet, i cannot find any medical or research data. The most i have been able to find is a article stating Herms wanted the MiniVap tests done by a particular researcher (can't remember the name) who does a lot of canabis related stuff and did the volcano.
 

Gondee

Member
do you or any other minivap owners have a method of measuring temperature?

http://www.amazon.com/HDE-Non-Contact-Temperature-Thermometer-Targeting/dp/B002YE3FS4

Something like that, contactless. I don't have one of these though. If nobody does, i might end up picking up one and doing a large set of tests with different pieces and drawn lengths ect. Herms needs to post the results of the lab outgassing testing so i can stop worrying ahaha and address concerns of wear and tear.

Im hoping that these teflon components never actually heat up to significant temperatures due to short exposure and airs terrible heat transfer properties. Also, PTFE has a pretty low thermal conductivity coefficient of [0.25] which is more conductive than wood, but immensely less conductive than something like Aluminum [205.0]. Tests are definitely needed...

Im still waiting a reply from herms about his
 
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MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
Gondee,
if the miniVAP is of concern, what's your alternative as only the miniVAP and Storz & Bickel vapes have the European CE and RoSH certification of safety of materials and restriction of hazardous materials?

It was designed for use in medical cannabis studies to provide a "medical grade" ingestion tool for cannabis.
Vaping is over 20 times cleaner than combusting. Combusting is almost 95% combustion byproducts which include many known carcinogens. Vaping is 95% THC and the other cannabinoids , with about 5% misc elements.

Yet, even "heavy combusters" don't show any significant health problems linked to cannabis.

I'm much more worried about other vapes with exposed wires, solder, and other hazardous materials in the airpath. But that's just me....

S & B products and the miniVAP have been designed to be super clean. If they are not perfect-- I'll live with that.
 

exit

Well-Known Member
I think the alternative would be anything without Teflon or similar materials in the design, but no testing should be discouraged. Everything can have flaws, and as vape lovers the best thing we can do is test our devices to make sure they are good as can be. I hope to have a minivap soon regardless.
 

Smknbud

Well-Known Member
The Teflon worries from what I have read starts at 500F where some structure deterioration begins and decomposition starts at over 650F. The Minivap temp. is 440 max is it not? The chamber won't exceed that so I see no reason for any alarm at all.

Scratching the internal chamber Teflon and creating particulates is to be avoided which is obvious, and is pointed out even by Hermes instructions when changing out the decarb kit or loading chamber kit.
 

Smknbud

Well-Known Member
I did some more research on the Teflon thing from reputable sources like webMD and the EPA etc. It's PFOA (C8) which is used in the manufacture of Teflon of which the concern is about. The chemical is virtually completely burned off during the production process. Even the EPA acknowledges such and all studies have shown that even cooking pots/pans subjected to high heat are not a worry for consumers.

It's all about the manufacturing process and resultant exposure especially to those involved with the process.....not the end consumer. According to the EPA and EWG (Environmental Working Group) there is no evidence that consumer products are poisoning people with PFOA's.

Teflon can/is made with smaller molecules that don't stick in the body and have been manufactured for years. 3M is an example of a company that switched.

The sky is not falling.
 
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utekai

Well-Known Member
I did some more research on the Teflon thing from reputable sources like webMD and the EPA etc. It's PFOA (C8) which is used in the manufacture of Teflon of which the concern is about. The chemical is virtually completely burned off during the production process. Even the EPA acknowledges such and all studies have shown that even cooking pots/pans subjected to high heat are not a worry for consumers.

It's all about the manufacturing process and resultant exposure especially to those involved with the process.....not the end consumer. According to the EPA and EWG (Environmental Working Group) there is no evidence that consumer products are poisoning people with PFOA's.

Teflon can/is made with smaller molecules that don't stick in the body and have been manufactured for years. 3M is an example of a company that switched.

The sky is not falling.


I like the old George Carlin line about simple rules in life. Rule #1: "I don't believe anything the government tells me. Nothing. Zero. Not one single word."

The EPA and FDA are there to protect the rich business owners who sponsor (aka 'bought') government, not to protect the consumers. Reputable isn't a word that could be used to describe a government organization, rather 'bought' or 'whoring' is a much better descriptor.

Carlin also said, "Hansel and Gretel discovered the ginger bread house about 45 minutes after they discovered the mushrooms."

Anyway, I suspect George would have enjoyed using a miniVAP at least once before he died. And this statement is probably true for everyone. But George wouldn't have died from it, and likely neither will anyone else.

However, choose your body's pollutants wisely. And when you do take in Teflon, it will block/hinder your body in fairly well known ways.

What?

Polytetrafluoroethylene
(PTFE) is a synthetic fluoropolymer of tetrafluoroethylene and is a fluorocarbon solid, and is a high-molecular-weight compound consisting wholly of carbon and fluorine.

What it will do in the body is displace iodine, and that's because fluorine, a natural halogen, but in PTFE is a halide and reactive in the body when the PTFE structure is disrupted. Thus it will affect your thyroid system and wreak havoc with your hormonal system (causing strange behaviors, strange symptoms, strange growths). It's not the PTFE is dangerous, it's that fluorine is EXTREMELY dangerous, and yet we dump that poison into our water so industry won't have to pay to have it safely deactivated.

This gets worse because we're all iodine deficient anyway, so even a bit of fluorine just causes massive disruption.

Some communities are waking up and stopping the dumping of fluorine and other poisons into their water. Just as some are waking up and refusing to let (4 out of 5) dentists fill their teeth with mercury (which blocks zinc, again wreaking all kinds of havoc) fillings.

What can one say after all this? Only this ... vape on my friend, vape on.
 

Kommyknocker

Well-Known Member
Very nice info. Fluoride causes a calcification of the Pineal gland.. The seat of the soul..

And Scotland is beautiful and shitty all at the same time.. Like the states and everywhere else.
 

lazylathe

Almost there...
So a little research into Teflon turned up this:

MiniVap MAX temp is 225 Degrees C
Teflon pyrolysis starts at 200 Degrees C and evolves certain fluorocarbon gasses and a sublimate. A study showed that these substances would not be released in any quantity that would be dangerous to humans below 250 Degrees C. So technically the MV should be fairly safe to use.

Teflon starts to deteriorate at 260 Degrees C, so the MV is safe again.

This was also quite interesting:
http://www.fluoridealert.org/wp-content/pesticides/teflon.decomposition.prod.htm

Most nasties appear at 600 to 700 Degrees C.

So most of the research provided in previous posts has been about TEFLON coatings and not really the PTFE that is used in the Minivap.

An excerpt from the DuPont handbook on PTFE states:
Teflon® PTFE fluoropolymer resins are tetrafluoro- ethylene polymers, usually fabricated into parts by cold- forming and sintering techniques. Teflon® PTFE resins have a continuous service temperature of 260°C (500°F). Much higher temperatures can be satisfactorily sustained for shorter exposures.

The document can be found here:
http://www.rjchase.com/ptfe_handbook.pdf

So with all this info on hand we are still at a considerable loss...
The most important info we need we most likely cannot obtain!
This info is:
The actual manufacturer of the material
The manufacturing process and hot it is handled afterwards.
The testing process

Reading the DuPont paper provides a lot of info, most of it is at temps way out of the MV's range of use.
We are only concerned with +- 25 degrees C range, from 200 to 225.
Not too sure a lot of decomposition occurs in a 25 degree range...

My:2c:
:peace:
 

mixchu69

Well-Known Member
I don't think there would be anything to worry about, but that may be my ignorance and justification of purchasing a minivap. This product has been on the market for years, many claim it's the best portable, I think we can always find a reason to WORRY. mine is shipping next week so I am trying to not stress about my purchase.
 

Smknbud

Well-Known Member
Going thru the entire parts list at Hermes the only part that is listed as PTFE is the solid cone. The flexicone and flexicone + are made of food grade silicone. The loading chamber kit material is silicone and Ultem. The loading chamber wall I assume/or appears to be made of the same material as the chamber kit.

So, one thing is made of PTFE.....the solid cone.

Edit: I wish I would have taken the initiative to read closely the Hermes parts description info instead of assuming, because someone said so, that PTFE was a prime component when it isn't in reality.
 
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mixchu69

Well-Known Member
I really like how this is one big family, everyone wishing others the best and advice for mods. I'm just reading through the forum, I know it's end of 2014 and things have changed, but never been on a forum with such positive vibes. The U.S. government should compare forums and see how mj has helped our tension, anxiety, medical Conditions. If you read other forums, it's anger, racism, and hating. One week til the silver minivap arrives.
 

MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
Going thru the entire parts list at Hermes the only part that is listed as PTFE is the solid cone. The flexicone and flexicone + are made of food grade silicone. The loading chamber kit material is silicone and Ultem. The loading chamber wall I assume/or appears to be made of the same material as the chamber kit.

So, one thing is made of PTFE.....the solid cone.

Edit: I wish I would have taken the initiative to read closely the Hermes parts description info instead of assuming, because someone said so, that PTFE was a prime component when it isn't in reality.
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And IMO, the solid cone is the least versatile piece in the kit. I used mine until the moment I found out that a screen fits in the silcone flexicone and have never used the solid cone since.
 

mixchu69

Well-Known Member
So I am still waiting for my minivap (silver is shipping next week). I just used my mighty for the first time today and it was great. Do you think that minivap will be necessary or provide me a different high than the mighty? I want high end material and these seem to be the top two. I am just deciding whether I should keep the mighty and cancel my order for the minivap or buy both (Luckily, it is a luxury I can afford but deciding whether it is prudent) I really like the community for the minivap.
 
mixchu69,
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