Naturally Decarbed Concentrates - Best Yet

Wowskers...@puffers, definitely, ditto 215z.

Does anyone have any thoughts about juicing fresh flowers and decarbing it as gently as possible?

Enchantre said:

Just did a run of QWET using everclear (151), which has turned out fab. I will try the 90-day decarb thing with it.

I've also done a QWET run on a 1/4 of chamomile (per another thread?) to try either dabbing or edibles...

In looking up higher proof liquor, we did find a page that discusses 200 proof alcohol, and it mentions USP or NF (in other words, safe for human use)... I would push for an ethanol product that is USP certified.

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That is good to know, I don't think I have ever heard feedback from someone using 151. You get that 192 proof polish vodka and you will love it.

Anyway, the USP is good and all, but in USA all kinds of dangerous chemicals are USP approved for food and completely illegal in many other countries. I really like to see NF (National Formulary) or NF/USP approval, it gives me a lot more confidence.

And, I think that is what that page had, was USP/NF.

So, yeah. That.

And as long as we're talking chemistry, you can't really have 100% ethanol. It likes water so much that as soon as it's exposed to air, it sucks out a little of the moisture, and becomes, ta-da, 95%-97% ethanol. The only way to get the 3% to 5% water out is to replace it with something the ethanol likes even more, like methanol. You do NOT want to have anything to do with methanol...

I've only used (real, not contaminated/adulterated) 190 proof everclear, and it's been fine. I don't mean to imply that KX doesn't smell better or evaporate better, I've never used it, but in the real world, where you and I live and vape, there really ain't no such thing as 200 proof ethenol. I happen to live next to a state where everclear 190 proof is legal, and hence "reasonably" priced.

Haywood said:

And as long as we're talking chemistry, you can't really have 100% ethanol. It likes water so much that as soon as it's exposed to air, it sucks out a little of the moisture, and becomes, ta-da, 95%-97% ethanol. The only way to get the 3% to 5% water out is to replace it with something the ethanol likes even more, like methanol. You do NOT want to have anything to do with methanol...

I've only used (real, not contaminated/adulterated) 190 proof everclear, and it's been fine. I don't mean to imply that KX doesn't smell better or evaporate better, I've never used it, but in the real world, where you and I live and vape, there really ain't no such thing as 200 proof ethenol. I happen to live next to a state where everclear 190 proof is legal, and hence "reasonably" priced.

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the question is how long it takes for the moisture to get into the 100% KX. are you saying that as soon as its opened it instantly becomes 95-97%? wouldnt this take a considerable amount of time before it gets to the percentage of EC?

i was under the impression that it could take some time so this stuff should still be slightly better than EC and priced almost the same. i live blocks from an EC distillery and the price hear is very close to KX.

anxious to hear more. its too bad KX hasnt been back to discuss.

yeah, and I hadn't read the KX thread before I replied here. I don't recall how long it takes to absorb the moisture, but it's fast enough that in the lab, by the time it was used, it wasn't 100% anymore, but was 97%-95%. Even if it were 99% in the "bottle" it won't be after you pour it into the jar... When an experiment required (essentially) zero water, we had to use ethanol that had been treated with something nasty to kick out the few percent of water.

Haywood said:

And as long as we're talking chemistry, you can't really have 100% ethanol. It likes water so much that as soon as it's exposed to air, it sucks out a little of the moisture, and becomes, ta-da, 95%-97% ethanol. The only way to get the 3% to 5% water out is to replace it with something the ethanol likes even more, like methanol. You do NOT want to have anything to do with methanol...

I've only used (real, not contaminated/adulterated) 190 proof everclear, and it's been fine. I don't mean to imply that KX doesn't smell better or evaporate better, I've never used it, but in the real world, where you and I live and vape, there really ain't no such thing as 200 proof ethenol. I happen to live next to a state where everclear 190 proof is legal, and hence "reasonably" priced.

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I have no complaints with the 190 Everclear, except for the bad bottle of it I recently received.

I do have to say I like the 192 proof polish vodka a bit better.

I have ran them side by side and I could see that the batch with the 192 proof vodka was a better run.

I am grateful for all of the opinions, experiences, and insight. I have heard of people getting 194 proof organic alcohol. I wish I knew where to get that. The highest I have been able to find is 190 proof.

Either way, everything I have used to extract came out good with the exception of the most recent batch.

I will say that it is better to be able to get it right at the store. Most likely what happened to me occurred between handlers. Whether it be the wholesaler, delivery driver, or the store itself. Who knows?

I kinda doubt that the efficacy of 96% ethanol is any different from 95% ethanol, but there may well be a difference in taste. In what way (taste, quantity) did you prefer the polish vodka?

Haywood said:

yeah, and I hadn't read the KX thread before I replied here. I don't recall how long it takes to absorb the moisture, but it's fast enough that in the lab, by the time it was used, it wasn't 100% anymore, but was 97%-95%. Even if it were 99% in the "bottle" it won't be after you pour it into the jar... When an experiment required (essentially) zero water, we had to use ethanol that had been treated with something nasty to kick out the few percent of water.

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so in other words, just use EC. it costs the same (for me at least) and is readily available in my area.

The KX / EC / ethanol can only absorb water from the atmosphere if it is there to be absorbed. In low humidity areas I'm sure that you would have considerably longer time before you are absorbing 5% of water. So what is being postulated here is that if you have a jar with 10oz 100% ethanol open it is going to gain a half an ounce right away. I'm not buying that. There is some... But I can't believe its that much. Even in High humidity, but in A/C, when I evaporated my KX run there were only a couple of drops of milky water/alcohol. Out of about 6oz of liquid. Far less than with 91% ISO.

Wow, just discovered that naturally decarbed buds/flowers offer the same results as the naturally decarbed oil.

Fresh buds, nice and dry (a little extra dry), stored in a sealed jar in a dark place for 120 days or more, now your buds are naturally decarbed.

All I can handle is 1/2 joint to 1 joints worth per day. This is with top shelf buds.

I just cut the joint up with scissors into 4 or 5 pieces and swallow like a pill with a gulp of water.

Took about 3 days of going through my system before it truly reminded me of a quality oil buzz. It may even be better. With my SpaceDawg strain, 1/2 joint and I am stoned for over 24 hours.

With the flower being decarbed and ingested, you are getting all of the medicinal properties and an extremely long lasting medicated feeling.

So at what point does weed go from "fully cured" to "naturally decarbed"?

grokit said:

So at what point does weed go from "fully cured" to "naturally decarbed"?

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Well, not exactly sure how to answer this.

It really depends on what your definition of cured is. I have seen many different opinions of what cured is. The first I heard the term cured was over 15 years ago in High Times. It was an article called Wacky Weed. It was about curing the buds at a certain moisture level for 30 days. I did try it, and it was "wacky". Easy to get mold that way though. Not my preference, but glad I tried it.

My definition of cured is: after the buds are dry, but not too dry, they sit in a sealed jar for about a week. It makes them a little more flavorful and the moisture is evenly distributed.

For decarbed, I really don't have it hammered down to the exact day and all. I had buds that were put into jars after drying, and left for about 4 months. I had another jar of a different strain that sat for 6 months. When I leave the buds in jars for extended periods of time like this I make sure they are more dry than what I prefer for smoking so that they stay better preserved. I just tried eating what I had and I am glad I did. It may be less than 120 days, it may be more. It also may depend on the strain. It is worth giving a try, just might be what people are looking for. It also may provide the medicinal effects that you desire.

Grow Goddess said:

Wow, just discovered that naturally decarbed buds/flowers offer the same results as the naturally decarbed oil.

Fresh buds, nice and dry (a little extra dry), stored in a sealed jar in a dark place for 120 days or more, now your buds are naturally decarbed.

All I can handle is 1/2 joint to 1 joints worth per day. This is with top shelf buds.

I just cut the joint up with scissors into 4 or 5 pieces and swallow like a pill with a gulp of water.

Took about 3 days of going through my system before it truly reminded me of a quality oil buzz. It may even be better. With my SpaceDawg strain, 1/2 joint and I am stoned for over 24 hours.

With the flower being decarbed and ingested, you are getting all of the medicinal properties and an extremely long lasting medicated feeling.

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so...what about just putting the ground flower in capsules?
You could dose in a more exact fashion.
Are your physical reactions to the orally ingested flowers the same as oils.
If so, I imagine the medical benefits are the same without the extraction hassle.

wootze said:

so...what about just putting the ground flower in capsules?
You could dose in a more exact fashion.
Are your physical reactions to the orally ingested flowers the same as oils.
If so, I imagine the medical benefits are the same without the extraction hassle.

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Yes, capsules would be perfect. Actually what I was thinking after testing.

It took me three days of eating it once per day to where I can confidently say it reminded me of oil.

Medicinally speaking, potentially it could be better than oil. The bud has all of the medicinal properties. It also contains the water soluble red oil.

Grow Goddess said:

Yes, capsules would be perfect. Actually what I was thinking after testing.

It took me three days of eating it once per day to where I can confidently say it reminded me of oil.

Medicinally speaking, potentially it could be better than oil. The bud has all of the medicinal properties. It also contains the water soluble red oil.

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How would you explain the three day lag mentioned above. Did the effects gradually increase?
Thank you for this thread. Your discoveries could have enormous positive consequences.

wootze said:

How would you explain the three day lag mentioned above. Did the effects gradually increase?
Thank you for this thread. Your discoveries could have enormous positive consequences.

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The three day lag was more of an adjustment from taking oil. I did go clean from taking the oil for three days before eating the buds. I wanted to be sure I was clean of the oil effects.

Maybe just because it was something new. It also seemed to speed up my metabolism.

I used to think the oil, RSO, but preferably naturally decrbed sap, I used to believe that was the most efficient way of ingesting or eating cannabis. Not so sure anymore. I am starting to think naturally decarbed buds is more efficient.

I won't be using heat to decarb cannabis again. Unless of course it is by way of smoking a joint or vaporizing oil. No heat whatsoever, just room temperature.

Buds and flower degrades the day it is harvested. Terpenes and other elements are evaporating. Any heat will speed up the process. The sooner they are air dried and put into a jar, then I believe they are pretty well preserved, so long as they are dry enough. After the decarbing process, you may want to put the buds into smaller jars to eliminate opening and closing the same jar many times.

I didn't take the terpenes and CBDs very seriously in the past. After sampling naturally decarbed cannabis, there is no going back.

Keeping in mind I have worked with the same strains for many years now. So when there is a difference, I notice it.

This is all based upon my experiences. Other people may encounter different results.

Here is an example: Not long ago I was hearing about BHO makers using the essential oil process to remove and capture the terpenes before making their BHO. Then after the BHO was finished, attempting to put back the terpenes into their oil.

I must agree with this web forum: Fuck Combustion when it comes to cannabis and tobacco too!

Edit: I have sampled many different medibles that were cooked in the oven (cookies, brownies, etc.) and just bud that was decarbed in the oven. I never got any quality effects or relief from it. Others did, but not me. I always thought it to be a waste. I have a high tolerance, but seems not so much when it comes to the naturally decarbed stuff.

If I wanted to produce a medible, I would grind up some naturally decarbed bud, sprinkle it over the brownie, then cover that with icing. Of course, no heat would be involved.

I am really interested in this but I thought... from how I understood the physics that it takes a certain amount of heat to break that carboxyl ring in the THC atom. I know that this carboxyl ring breaks down slowly with time but I thought it was much much slower then 120 daysish with proper storage. I thought this was why extracts don't decarb rapidly under deep vac.

Not criticizing your results or findings. Just trying to gain a better understanding of the process.

This is fascinating!
I've been doing the "cannabis paste" since the beginning of October, and that's been pretty darned good for me, but if I could just grind the bud... maybe mix with oil or VG?... and cap it, no cooking, and get results, that would be awesome.

When I get to the end of my capsules, I do have a jar of good bud that is getting close to the 4 month mark, that I can try!

Enchantre said:

This is fascinating!
I've been doing the "cannabis paste" since the beginning of October, and that's been pretty darned good for me, but if I could just grind the bud... maybe mix with oil or VG?... and cap it, no cooking, and get results, that would be awesome.

When I get to the end of my capsules, I do have a jar of good bud that is getting close to the 4 month mark, that I can try!

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interesting idea, i wonder if it would work with saturated fat. it wouldn't be very food safe to keep any fat above melting point for long if below 140°F or so. it would have to be kept cool, or maybe at room temp depending on the fat.


if you mixed keif or bud into gently melted clarified butter or VCO and then kept it somewhat cool and solid for a few months would an extraction still occur? or would it only absorb into an oil that is a liquid at room temperature such as olive oil? keeping mind that thc binds best to saturated fat. would you end up with a more potent extraction from the solidified high saturated fat, or from the liquid high mono-unstaturated fat?


one other thought, in the culinary world you normally quickly blanch greens and transfer to ice bath before infusing into oil. this is to kill any bacteria, and to set the chlorophyl. OP was using an alcohol extraction which would kill any bacteria off, but i've never really heard of eating raw cannabis. you just never know what could be growing on your buds and it might cause your oil to go off after sitting for months. It wouldn't be completely raw this way, but it would be close, only 30 or so seconds in simmering water is needed. it would also extract less chlorophyl this way, which is nice for flavour, but is also a loss of nutrition. might be tricky to get all the water out with out loosing bud though. maybe since its cured it is fine to eat as it, and I'm just being paranoid here.

Had a bit of RSO I'd left un-decarbed, a few months ago. Yup. BAM!!

Love it.

Grow Goddess said:

Here is an example: Not long ago I was hearing about BHO makers using the essential oil process to remove and capture the terpenes before making their BHO. Then after the BHO was finished, attempting to put back the terpenes into their oil.

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I'm curious, what method are you talking about here?

Athanor said:

I'm curious, what method are you talking about here?

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I came across it at another site, I think it was RIU, but I did not read it over very well since I do not do that type of extraction.

They did mention something about steaming, the methods used for essential oils and other methods used in the manufacture of perfumes.

What I do know for sure is with the naturally decarbed oil (no heat used in the processing), the effects last twice as long as RSO made with the same buds and same techniques of extraction. The only difference is the RSO process requires heat.

I never thought that one drop of concentrated cannabis oil could provide a 24 hour buzz or medicated feeling. If people are making BHO and have figured out how to put the CBDs and terpenes back into their product, it would be worth it if they achieve the same results I did with my naturally decarbed oil.

I did have a couple of BHO makers mention to me that they had some stored for over 100 days, ate a small amount, and did get a buzz from it.

Grow Goddess said:

I came across it at another site, I think it was RIU, but I did not read it over very well since I do not do that type of extraction.

They did mention something about steaming, the methods used for essential oils and other methods used in the manufacture of perfumes.

What I do know for sure is with the naturally decarbed oil (no heat used in the processing), the effects last twice as long as RSO made with the same buds and same techniques of extraction. The only difference is the RSO process requires heat.

I never thought that one drop of concentrated cannabis oil could provide a 24 hour buzz or medicated feeling. If people are making BHO and have figured out how to put the CBDs and terpenes back into their product, it would be worth it if they achieve the same results I did with my naturally decarbed oil.

I did have a couple of BHO makers mention to me that they had some stored for over 100 days, ate a small amount, and did get a buzz from it.

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When making BHO, it is not a matter of 'putting the CBD back in', CBD dissolves in butane/iso/ethanol just fine. It is just that most strains have much, much less CBD in them than other actives. If you want oils with more CBD content in them than what you have had up til now - get oils made out of higher CBD strains.

Otherwise, to increase the cbd effects in oils, one needs to remove THCA/THC from the oil. This process can be achieved using more advanced chemistry techniques which I will not go into here. This is not stuff for the at home BHO maker to mess with.

Probably just best to start with a strain like CannaTonic or Posion OG, who already have a 2-1 ratio of CBD to THC to start with.