Having a rough time taking a break.

biohacker said:

Wow really, you got them fused? How is that? I'm assuming your range of motion is now compromised? I have degenerative disc disease and am praying it doesn't get worse. My herniations are the result of wear and tear as well as several accidents, and a physically difficult lifestyle (military, sports, my present career)..lots of injuries, as well as an abusive diet/lifestyle all throughout my 20's. I hope I can minimize further damage based on my MRI's, because I really don't want to go through this again. I literally lost ALL my muscle on my right pec, right tricep, and upper back/shoulder. I couldn't even do a single pushup or pull up, even though I could pump them out like crazy before. I'm back to where i'm happy again, but part of me will obviously never be the same. But I am paranoid about what the future will hold, because it will mean my career is over. Looking forward to an early retirement...Freedom 45!

Click to expand...

The surgery was a piece of cake. My surgeon used cadaver bone instead of autologous tissue 'cause it's less painful. I was fairly young at the time for that kind of injuy (32). I would recommend it to anyone suffering the same problems I was.

Not much need for narcotics post surgery...it just felt good not to be in constant pain. If only my vascectomy had gone as smoothly. Also, a side result of all this had my ex feeling bad about thinking that I was pulling a munchausen. So it was a twofer for me both physically and emotionally.

Like I had mentioned, the only real issue I have with quitting is that my upper back starts hurting and I am unable to sleep soundly.

I'm pretty sure that I could give it up if I had to. I just need a good enough reason to do so.

I can easily see how it can become habit forming but really don't think it's physically addictive to the vast majority of people. It's just thst there is a very thin line between a habit (which is more benign) and an addiction for a minority of people. There's always going to be ouliers.

RUDE BOY said:

I think they say that because most people don't get enough exercise, so consuming my high fat 8000-11000 calorie daily diet for a sedentary but "healthy"person wouldn't be very healthy for long.

Click to expand...

I agree, but just because someone is ketogenic, doesn't mean they need that many calories. The most important thing is to INCREASE the fat, because many cut the carbs, and then go into a calorie deficit or eat too much protein, and that can spike insulin and cause gluconeogensis. I'm saving my protein shakes for dinner. Curious, where are you getting so many calories from fat from? I would assume you would be too full all the time since fat is so satiating? Highly recommend looking up John Kiefer, or any of the other hackers i've listed in the Athlete Vaporist thread or podcast thread. They are all on the same page, and on the leading edge of research. Dr. Jack Kruse is another fav.

@basement farmer - thanks for the insight on the surgery!

It's funny though, everyone says it's pychologically addicting, yet for me it isn't - it's physically addicting. I could care less to ever vape again at this point, it's the long term road to recovery as my body gets back to baseline. To me it feels like crack! And i'm glad i'm not alone (I know I am on THIS forum though), but there is a HUGE world outside of here. Again, insomnia and night sweats are the biggest ones..... and even though I represent the minority, it's still real.

biohacker said:

I agree, but just because someone is ketogenic, doesn't mean they need that many calories. The most important thing is to INCREASE the fat, because many cut the carbs, and then go into a calorie deficit or eat too much protein, and that can spike insulin and cause gluconeogensis. I'm saving my protein shakes for dinner. Curious, where are you getting so many calories from fat from? I would assume you would be too full all the time since fat is so satiating? Highly recommend looking up John Kiefer, or any of the other hackers i've listed in the Athlete Vaporist thread or podcast thread. They are all on the same page, and on the leading edge of research. Dr. Jack Kruse is another fav.

@basement farmer - thanks for the insight on the surgery!

It's funny though, everyone says it's pychologically addicting, yet for me it isn't - it's physically addicting. I could care less to ever vape again at this point, it's the long term road to recovery as my body gets back to baseline. To me it feels like crack! And i'm glad i'm not alone (I know I am on THIS forum though), but there is a HUGE world outside of here. Again, insomnia and night sweats are the biggest ones..... and even though I represent the minority, it's still real.

Click to expand...

I guess if I were you, I'd do what it takes to quit it completely. It seems like any use is going to ultimately make you feel worse than if you hadn't. Just sayin'...and if it were me. And you've made it pretty clear that you have a problem. Aknowledging it is the biggest barrier. Now that you've made over that see it through.

Go see an MD who specializes in addiction psych. and do what you need to do to get over this. My brother did follow this advice but it's a process, not a one time only deal. He didn't put the time and effort into it and ultimately dropped out life largely over it.

Also, hanging around here with a bunch of users who aren't struggling with it is a bit like talking about alcoholim to a bunch of wine lovers. It's probably not best place for someone with a self-aknowleged issue to get the kind of support that they need,..

..... even worse, there's the temptation...hmmmm. thinking of an analogy..OK here's one. Like a masturbation addict trying to seek advice on quitting on a wanking forum. Sorry if that's a little over the top, but I'm just trying to illustrate my point.

I cheat now and do sugars and a lot more carbs than would be considered ketogenic also take insure and weight gain/protein shakes daily don't think I ever really managed higher than 4000 calories directly from fat, I have never been able to reach the 8000- 11000 calorie end of the scale myself without feeling terribly ill and no dietician has been able to direct me to a way consume that much as I'm 5'10" and around 145lbs. I'm not normal(healthy) in that I've lost a large amount of intestine, half my stomach and half my liver due to trauma.

Right now I'm probably only taking in 5000 calories at most and I think that's stretching it a bit. Since I need breaks from the nausea/gastric distress that seems to come along with this diet, i'll do with a short petit mal episode once in a blue moon not to feel puking sick all day long. It's one big mindfuck as to which route to take sometimes.

basement farmer said:

I guess if I were you, I'd do what it takes to quit it completely. It seems like any use is going to ultimately make you feel worse than if you hadn't. Just sayin'...and if it were me. And you've made it pretty clear that you have a problem. Aknowledging it is the biggest barrier. Now that you've made over that see it through.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice, I do appreciate your viewpoint. I'm not sure why you think that any use will make me feel worse. How about I first start by not vaping from morning to night for months on end? I don't think I have a problem at all. My doctor told me to not go into withdrawal by keeping the cannabinoids in my blood evelated constantly....this was bad advice for me IMO. Furthermore, a specialist said to never quit cold turkey, but to gradually decrease over the course of 2 months. Since this didn't work for me before, I decided to go at it harder, and quit cold turkey. Just the fact that I can do that should tell you that I don't have a problem? This is the rough time taking a break thread - and i'm doing just that - having a rough time taking a break. I feel like a freak show here, when just a simple google search can tell you that insomnia and night sweats are the two biggest withdrawal symtoms that can last a really, really long time. If you frequented some of the other forums on quitting cannabis, you will quickly see that effects can last several months, and even up to two years believe it or not. These are real people, not mental cases.

basement farmer said:

Go see an MD who specializes in addiction psych. and do what you need to do to get over this. My brother did follow this advice but it's a process, not a one time only deal. He didn't put the time and effort into it and ultimately dropped out life largely over it.

Click to expand...

I am so sorry about your brother...my god, I really am. I've had very close friends and coworkers (very recently) do this and in my job I see it more often than I care to remember. I have seen the MD that specializes.... I have no problem quitting....my will power is stronger than anyone i've ever met. I have not tried to quit over the past 6 months, or probably longer, because like many of you here - I had no reason to. Pretty easy to say things, without actually putting them into practice. I decided to quit for a temporary cleanse/detox, and I did just that. Now I suffer the withdrawal effects as do a huge percentage of users who decided to stop completely. I have no cravings, urges, etc. I just look forward to sleeping an entire night, with REM and dreams. I will come back. It has before, I have gone through this more than once. I'm not concerned, I just that the point of this thread was to help get people like me through it. I obviously talk too much, and it's not appreciated, so this will be my last post and update here.

basement farmer said:

Also, hanging around here with a bunch of users who aren't struggling with it is a bit like talking about alcoholim to a bunch of wine lovers. It's probably not best place for someone with a self-aknowleged issue to get the kind of support that they need,..

Click to expand...

I thought that was the point of this thread. FC is a very diverse, I guess I made a mistake. I understand your point, but I don't have ANY temptation, or urges, or addiction psychologically. This is purely physical withdrawal due to physical dependence, I think you may be misconstrued.

@RUDE BOY I didn't know about your issues, I am sorry to hear. I'm constantly experimenting and tweaking, but it sounds like we follow the same diet which totally stokes me. I get most of my fat from full fat heavy whipping cream (35%), which is just incredible in coffee, I also add butter and love bulletproof coffee, lots of coconut oil, and do you take MCT oil? Super awesome ketones that are like rocket fuel for your brain! Add to take the usual avocado, certain nuts, fatty meat like bacon, and peanut and almond butters (not the greatest due to omega 6 but whatever). Anyways, I thought you hated me due to some history in other threads but please feel free to PM me if you ever wanna chat, because it's nice to have diet in common, and training ofcourse. This protocal has made me shredded, seriously 8 pack abs for the first time in my life at age 39. I never thought it would be possible...i'm also stronger than I ever have been, and can bench about 30 lbs more than my body weight. I'm really liking carb backloading, and cheating a bit like you said... I don't think a PURELY Ketogenic diet is all that healthy over the LONG TERM, unless you do it like the Eskimos and eat alot of organ meats. I do implement organic grass fed dessicated liver tablets from new zealand.

If anyone else wants to keep on top of my storey, please feel free to PM me. I really do enjoy the conversations with those that have, and i'm always more than happy to help.

Cheers everyone!

biohacker said:

Thanks for your advice, I do appreciate your viewpoint. I'm not sure why you think that any use will make me feel worse. How about I first start by not vaping from morning to night for months on end? I don't think I have a problem at all. My doctor told me to not go into withdrawal by keeping the cannabinoids in my blood evelated constantly....this was bad advice for me IMO. Furthermore, a specialist said to never quit cold turkey, but to gradually decrease over the course of 2 months. Since this didn't work for me before, I decided to go at it harder, and quit cold turkey. Just the fact that I can do that should tell you that I don't have a problem? This is the rough time taking a break thread - and i'm doing just that - having a rough time taking a break. I feel like a freak show here, when just a simple google search can tell you that insomnia and night sweats are the two biggest withdrawal symtoms that can last a really, really long time. If you frequented some of the other forums on quitting cannabis, you will quickly see that effects can last several months, and even up to two years believe it or not. These are real people, not mental cases.



I am so sorry about your brother...my god, I really am. I've had very close friends and coworkers (very recently) do this and in my job I see it more often than I care to remember. I have seen the MD that specializes.... I have no problem quitting....my will power is stronger than anyone i've ever met. I have not tried to quit over the past 6 months, or probably longer, because like many of you here - I had no reason to. Pretty easy to say things, without actually putting them into practice. I decided to quit for a temporary cleanse/detox, and I did just that. Now I suffer the withdrawal effects as do a huge percentage of users who decided to stop completely. I have no cravings, urges, etc. I just look forward to sleeping an entire night, with REM and dreams. I will come back. It has before, I have gone through this more than once. I'm not concerned, I just that the point of this thread was to help get people like me through it. I obviously talk too much, and it's not appreciated, so this will be my last post and update here.



I thought that was the point of this thread. FC is a very diverse, I guess I made a mistake. I understand your point, but I don't have ANY temptation, or urges, or addiction psychologically. This is purely physical withdrawal due to physical dependence, I think you may be misconstrued.

Click to expand...

I apologize if I come across as if I'm lecturing. I'm not deminishing your problem or telling you not to discuss it here either, but it really does sound like you're convinced that your problems are physiological and maybe psychochemically related. If that is the case than you really should seek the type of help that will make the difference. And don't expect instant results. You may have to get multiple opinions before you find one that sounds correct to you. My big concern would be "what if it isn't the weed or lack of, but something else more serious?"....this really could be the case. In particular, your night sweats would have me concerned if I were you...and I'm not one for running to the Dr.

As far as discussing it here, well I only suggest that based on first hand experience. I had to take a two month break this summer because I was going to be on the road through a couple of non green friendly states. Plus I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. If I couldn't do it than I'd realize I kind of have a problem. I did it. It sucked, I didn't sleep well, I hurt more and all that jazz. But I definately didn't spend my time here torturing myself by reading about the very stuff I'm trying to avoid. Yeah frequenting this site probably would've been a bad idea for me. I would've said 'fuck it' and rationalized my weakness afterwards for sure.

Anyway, I'll quit with my dissertation on the matter. Don't take anything I say personally...they're only light suggestions.

Feel free to keep discussing if it really does help. You really should.

For myself the physical addiction of mj is entirely psychological

Many years ago I used to think I needed it, and true to form I was miserable without it. Then I realized that the only reason I was miserable was lack of sleep, and decided to just go with it instead of trying to fight it. Meaning I will stay up all night the first night or two, and do my best to get through the resulting day(s) without napping. After that I start sleeping normally -- and by this I mean that I take longer to get to sleep but am rewarded with dreams, which are not the norm if I am medicating. Of course this strategy goes right out the window if anxiety gets a leg up on me. But that's a separate issue, and one that is also controllable without mj from a prevention standpoint if not a reactionary one. I like using mj, but I don't need it.

@basement farmer - I feel like i'm starting to really repeat myself, but i'm probably getting confused with the Ammonia thread, thanks dude...I appreciate it. I've gone through this before, and last time it took a full 5 weeks of night sweats before it stopped. It's not even two weeks.

Anyways, I just feel like i've created alot of backlash, and it's starting to stress me out more than it's worth - and i'm wasting too much time trying to jusify myself, when that's the last thing I need when going through this.

PS. Just finished a beer....OMG...I can't believe how HIGH I am! LOL Withdrawal has its perks.

Good luck to everyone, and thanks for listening.

I just finished a huge break and I still feel like my tolerance is very high. I think becuz I don't live in even an MMJ state it's hard for me to get any quality strains. I am going back to only partaking on weekend nights. I also have a little canna butter leftover and my start with this tonight as I must protect my throat.

I exercise almost everyday but I am post menopause and last 10 lbs has been very stubborn to get off. I've lost over 30 so I'm not going backwards and when I do get high I just eat too much. (Also another reason I don't want to do anything during the week). Also, pot has the opposite effect on me; I sleep better without it.

But I wish I could get more of a buzzed feeling on the weekends. Last night I only allowed myself 2 sessions and had the xhale on pretty low heat. I iced down the recycler in a ice bucket and I will do the same tonight. And I may start by eating the oatmeal recipe with some of my butter in eat it.

Who has good detox methods during the week (other than exercise - I'm up to running 2,8 mi/5 -6 days a week). Cranberry juice? Anything else. I take ginseng every day. Should I start drinking my herbal detox tea again? I see the throat dr on Nov 25th and I want him to see that my cords are really improved despite the occasional weekend vaping. The speech therapist is thrilled with my voice - I have really been doing the throat exercises. So I know I am healing

Biohacker, dawntreader, rude boy You are all really good and insightful on these matters. Any advice would be helpful. I am going to do my throat exercises, then head to the gym, then drink a billion glasses of water. I have to do a little cooking with my daughter tonight and would love to have a nice buzz while I do it. So any suggestions.

I have a order out for very good quality bud but haven't heard anything yet. Tomorrow I hope to start the weekly t-break but sometimes I give in amend don't start till Monday. You would think with 6 weeks off and my limited usage I would be blasted. And I can't turn up the heat on the xhale or do it more than 2x in a day.

Any thoughts?

LongIslandmom said:

But I wish I could get more of a buzzed feeling on the weekends. Last night I only allowed myself 2 sessions and had the xhale on pretty low heat. I iced down the recycler in a ice bucket and I will do the same tonight. And I may start by eating the oatmeal recipe with some of my butter in eat it.

........
Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

Hi LI mom,

I'm a never ending preacher on this but have you tried using warm water in your recycler?
It's my strong opinion that vapor only needs slight cooling BUT needs major moisturizing as it
is very very very dry.
Warm water moisturizes MUCH more than cool or cold or ice water.

Plus, you are trying to get max vaped and the cooler the water, the more vapor condenses out---
doesn't get to you. That reduction is not huge but my point is that warm water gives best vapor for your throat (moisturized) and max THC.

An experiment to try: chill your recycler with no herbs, inhale . Fill with hot tap water and inhale, again with no herb. Doesn't the warm feel like a moisturizing uplift for your throat?

On my good/bad ...irritation/feels good,,, scale:
Smoking a joint is minus 10
Smoking thru a water piece is minus 7
Vaping straight hits with no water is minus 3
Vaping thru cool water is minus 1
Vaping thru warm/hot water is plus 4, it actually makes your throat feel better.

Please try warm water as vapor needs maximum moisturizing, not maximum cooling.
Your throat is irritated .
If your skin was irritated would you ice it down or moisturize it? Vaping thru warm water
makes the vapor much more moist!

Let us know if you try it

Mod Note: Edited to fix quote tags

Hello old friend

I know you love warm water. I do very much love how passionate you are and you were so good w the Oatmeal edigble. Shout out mbobber love the oatmeal. I did warm water both when I got it and w the girls in DC. I do so very little, like one elb not all the full on fri sat night it doesn't matter. I have the exhale at 6/7 (not2) and I run downstairs do 4 -5 bong hit and turn off the device. Sometimes a little more. So now on a sat nite w the family I can go get something to eat totally baked by using very little.

I'm just glad I can do so little and get so buzzed. You know why? T-breaks so work!! They do!

Will check on you guys lafer