Discontinued Thermovape Cera

OF

OF

Well-Known Member
SameOldTim said:
They most definantly had patents, which were sold off.
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Interesting, thanks for the update, Tim. They've 'sold the keys to the castle' then........meaning (likely) someone is either sitting on them or planning of 'doing something' with them. In neither case would they likely ignore claim jumpers. They would consider their 'property' valuable and be willing to use a fraction of that value to make your life miserable (and your bank account smaller) if they follow the usual pattern.

IMO the best plan is to find out who owns the rights and see what their story is.

OF
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
tony yayo said:
Wait, they sold the patent to R J Reynolds? The tobacco company? Hmmm... this could get interesting.
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So it would seem. Any number of reasons why, of course, but for now they are 'sitting on it' I think?

Long ago, when it looked like legal weed might happen, RJR and the rest rushed to copyright "Acapulco Gold", "Panama Red" and so on. No fools, they?

I hope the fellow who figured it was OK to go into business making them since 'nobody will pay for the lawyers' to stop it rethinks it some. I'm betting RJR has a few pretty good ones looking for something to do........

I agree, but think it's already interesting.

BTW, I'm not sure that patent covers Cera technology really, but it's a sure bet I think it is covered somewhere and that IP, having value, is not 'up for grabs'........at least not for free.

OF
 
OF,
Krazzykid

Krazzykid

Well-Known Member
tony yayo said:
Wait, they sold the patent to R J Reynolds? The tobacco company? Hmmm... this could get interesting.
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Even *IF* RJR decided to do anything with the patents, I would not support them by giving them any of my money. Just my opinion.

If they decided to sell them to someone else, who has no affiliation with big tobacco, then I might consider jumping on board.
 
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tony yayo

Well-Known Member
Krazzykid said:
Even *IF* RJR decided to do anything with the patents, I would not support them by giving them any of my money. Just my opinion.

If they decided to sell them to someone else, who has no affiliation with big tobacco, then I might consider jumping on board.
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I'm betting they bought it as a way of AVOIDING the use of the technology
 
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Krazzykid

Krazzykid

Well-Known Member
tony yayo said:
I'm betting they bought it as a way of AVOIDING the use of the technology
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Could very well be. Could also be somehow linked to their plans to own the ecig game.

Whatever they are up to, I will be avoiding them like the plague.
 
Krazzykid,
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
jpdnkstr said:
Selling that to RJR goes against absolutely everything TET stood for, at least that's what I thought...
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ShayWhiteGrow said:
sure, but money talks:)
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I don't agree with that. They were (and I assume still are) against smoking, not tobacco or nicotine. Both the Principals were heavy e-cig vapers last I saw, including testing Luna with 'juice' in development (probably one of the reasons the switch had problems with the lower voltage/higher current application with oil over juice). IIRC they also wholesaled juice at one point, which can only come from tobacco somehow?

And remember, cannabis was a small fraction of their overall business. For many years they made e-cigs and used their e-cig parts to make their first vapes for concentrate. I suggest they were more involved in nicotine than THC.

I'm sure they explored other customers (I suspect RJR didn't make too sweet an offer), it would seem no cannabis based company had a good enough offer........ Since they no doubt had investors, they would be compelled to sell assets (like the IP), most likely to the best (legal) offer.

All fun speculation at best. Bottom line is still the same, until further word it looks like the chances of a reserrection of TV is dark indeed......and probably getting darker as the industry moves on.

Sad as that is to the faithful.

OF
 
Custom Flower Hardware

Custom Flower Hardware

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
OF said:
I don't agree with that. They were (and I assume still are) against smoking, not tobacco or nicotine. Both the Principals were heavy e-cig vapers last I saw, including testing Luna with 'juice' in development (probably one of the reasons the switch had problems with the lower voltage/higher current application with oil over juice). IIRC they also wholesaled juice at one point, which can only come from tobacco somehow?

And remember, cannabis was a small fraction of their overall business. For many years they made e-cigs and used their e-cig parts to make their first vapes for concentrate. I suggest they were more involved in nicotine than THC.

I'm sure they explored other customers (I suspect RJR didn't make too sweet an offer), it would seem no cannabis based company had a good enough offer........ Since they no doubt had investors, they would be compelled to sell assets (like the IP), most likely to the best (legal) offer.

All fun speculation at best. Bottom line is still the same, until further word it looks like the chances of a reserrection of TV is dark indeed......and probably getting darker as the industry moves on.

Sad as that is to the faithful.

OF
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Boy I just really, really miss waiting for TET's new products to come out! There is a vas-void in my heart!:cry:
 
nopartofme

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
ColoVaper said:
http://www.smdailyjournal.com/artic...me-for-torching-own-office/1776425117437.html

Is this what ultimately lead to
the closure or at least the reason for the Ceras original delay.
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Wow… This happened almost a year after Noah had "left the company" by my recollection?

At the time of those incidents, TET was working hard to get a lot of packages out before Christmas. Zeki actually shared a positive update on the day of the second incident. Seems amazing that they managed to keep chugging through that:

ThermoVape said:
We just wanted to thank everyone for their patience. Our apologies for the delays. Currently we are planning to ship all of the current retail orders by the end of the week. The RMA's will be completed this week as well. Possibly not all of them, but we're aiming high.

I like to be as transparent as possible. For the past 3 months I am out of the office a little earlier than usual Thursday and Fridays. If anyone has tried calling past 3:30pm PST, sorry for not being available. I also need to eat :p so if I'm out on lunch, unfortunately no one else is there to answer. Please leave an email at sales@thermovape.com as a follow up, as I can check those out of the office, and will be making an effort to respond regardless of the time of day (at least for the holiday season).

Only the production team is here on the weekends when needed.

We did ship some Essential Oil products ahead of some others this past week, as Loose Leaf's were not ready to ship. Currently it's best to work in batches, for RMA's and retail. It's most time efficient with the current work load.

Again, we truly appreciate all of you and your understanding at this time.
Best,
Zeki

PS: OF, next time we're putting you to work! :whip:
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thegoo

Well-Known Member
That was a very sad article to read.....I kept checking to make sure it wasn't posted on The Onion. It is all starting to make sense now...At some point last spring TET stopped producing the E juice carts for the CERA/LUNA and it must have been because they sold the IP to RJR.
With this new information I am more inclined to let go of TET and just remember how much I loved their products and how great it was to deal with them when they were firing on all cylinders.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
thegoo said:
It is all starting to make sense now...At some point last spring TET stopped producing the E juice carts for the CERA/LUNA and it must have been because they sold the IP to RJR.
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Interesting conjecture, but not one I agree with. Not that it really matters.

First, I was shown the problems they were having with optimizing the EL Cera/Luna cart. Over time, Nate showed me half a dozen or more changes (which I paid little attention to since it wasn't EO and I don't do juice.....). An entirely different cart, 7.4 Volts only to start. IMO they had real performance problems with their Beta testing there. Then they found their hands full with cart fit and switch issues.

Secondly, he time line doesn't support that assumption. Check the patent Tim posted the link to. The cart was put on hold in the spring, but RJR didn't buy in until the fall. In between times the IP was owned by a holding company, to me indicating that it was potentially for sale potential to TV buyers.

Again, not that I think it's all that important at this point. It is, as you hint, history.

OF
 
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thegoo

Well-Known Member
@OF
You are probably right. I am just thinking back to a conversation I had with Zeki in july. He told me that they were no longer "allowed" to see anything e juice related. I just figured the higher ups decided it was a losing venture. O well.
 
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jdee

jdee

Well-Known Member
In other cera related news, I killed my loose leaf cart using it on my boxmod. I'm guessing it may have something to do with the lack of internal resistance compared to the cera (1.5ohms for the switch, 1.5ohms for the body). The coil ended up popping, only a few days after mentioning it would suck if it broke.

Thankfully I had a 0.035" hex key on hand and resistance wire in all difference sizes, so I attempted to rebuild it. Removed all the set screws and pulled the base out. The base has a ring at the top that traps the negative end of the coil, the coil is wrapped around a ceramic rod sitting on top of the positive screw. I grabbed a hex key the same size as the positive screw and some 24ga kanthal because it seemed to be the about the same thickness as what was in the loose leaf cart. I made around 15 wraps and threaded the coil onto the positive screw leaving enough above the screw to put the ceramic core back. The top sides of the base have holes to secure the wire, which is then covered with the ring.

Came out to 1.5ohms which is not as hot as it was before it died (someone posted the ll cart is 1.0 ohms normally), but it vapes nicer since I can keep it on longer and it never gets too hot. Only issue was the tiny ceramic washer that insulates the positive screw from the body was cracked in many pieces, but no need to unscrew it as you can just thread a coil onto the positive post it doesn't need to be secured with the nut at the bottom inside of the base (the way it's originally built). I don't believe I have any other vapes that are legitimately user serviceable, thankfully the one with no company to service it is.

Also nice to see Noah is back with the wife and doing better.
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
jdee said:
I'm guessing it may have something to do with the lack of internal resistance compared to the cera (1.5ohms for the switch, 1.5ohms for the body).

Came out to 1.5ohms which is not as hot as it was before it died (someone posted the ll cart is 1.0 ohms normally), but it vapes nicer since I can keep it on longer and it never gets too hot.
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You might want to recheck those numbers. Cera LL carts are about .8 Ohms on average actually. They are designed for four Amps nominally, about half what you're running (therefore twice the power). Since the total resistance (cart, strap, switch, contacts and so on) is under one Ohm (in order to make that four Amps) the 1.5 Ohm numbers for switch and body can't be right (they would each heat twice as much as the cart).

The key to replacing the heater (aside from material) is in the ends. Lots of testing was done on the screw end, basically very very few wire gauges match the threads well enough to not fail due to local heating. I recall a shelf at TV with several sizes that didn't work. It should thread on from the top but refuse to come off (won't unthread). The other point to be careful on is the shell connection. You want to follow the pattern used on the original. Out one hole from the inside, closely hug the wall and down through the next with the end flagged over. The heat shield needs to be a tight fit, bearing on the piece of the element exposed inside it. Distort it as necessary so it's a 'hard press' going on.

It goes without saying that the element turns have to be uniform and kink or other flaw free or heat will concentrate and 'work' the element over cycling. This (small flaws) was what was killing them off young early on. Once the coil fixture was adopted (meaning basically perfect coils) failures all but dried up.

Glad you got it going again.

OF
 
Soflo

Soflo

Only birdshit and fools
I'm taking on the challenge of rebuilding an EO cart very soon. I decided to replace the broken ceramic material with a health stone. the heater wire is also broken so I'm going to try and figure out what gauge wire it is and look for a replacment. if anyone in the know can point me in the right direction for the wire it would be greatly appreciated
Thermocore Tim? OF?
 
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OF

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Soflo said:
if anyone in the know can point me in the right direction for the wire it would be greatly appreciated
Thermocore Tim? OF?
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No, I'm sorry, I gave my word to keep it confidential, that hasn't changed.

Diameter and material are very important to the necessary mechanical fit. A different size or alloy will most likely cause problems either by fit or incorrect total resistance. Or both. There's not much room in there to mess around with.

Good luck.

OF
 
Zingbuddah

Zingbuddah

Vaporologist
OF said:
No, I'm sorry, I gave my word to keep it confidential, that hasn't changed. ...

... Good luck.

OF
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Sawweeet! Another OF mystery scavenger hunt with absolutely no hope of ever getting the confirmation that we are correct! :)

I imagine this highly resourceful group will have something that works, ehh...90% as good as the original in short order. Yes, the secret of the exact metallurgy, dimensions and karma may never be known but we may be able to hobble our remaining units into the sunset.
 
Zingbuddah,
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