Discontinued Thermovape Cera

ColoVaper

ColoVaper

Science...Whoo!
Just decided to check out what TET is up to and discovered the sad news. Damn I wish I bought another EO cart....what would you guys recommend as a alternatice to the Cera? I want it to last for a long time and scared of wearing it out now...I mainly used it for the EO but enjoy LL here and there...would a Pinnicale Pro keep me going?
 
ColoVaper,
hoptimum

hoptimum

Well-Known Member
ColoVaper said:
Just decided to check out what TET is up to and discovered the sad news. Damn I wish I bought another EO cart....what would you guys recommend as a alternatice to the Cera? I want it to last for a long time and scared of wearing it out now...I mainly used it for the EO but enjoy LL here and there...would a Pinnicale Pro keep me going?
Click to expand...

I'd take a look at the Persei with the Herc-74 cart. It's not as clean tasting as the Cera, but nothing is, IMO. It's a sturdy device, though, and the company seems to be pretty responsive and accommodating
 
T

TheRobbo

Well-Known Member
OF said:
Yes, the tail cap contains the switch......that end. No, the tab did not extend far enough to reach the threads. No, brass would not gall the SS, but it would jam them up if it got a chance.

OF
Click to expand...

OK I get it make a little tab and catch it in between the tail cap and the lip on the inside of the ring. That bit I can do, but... what about the other end? Where is that clamped? In the thread of the cart? Or up between the ceramic body and the metal plate? Maybe try and screw one of the grub screws through it? Sorry to interrogate you but it would look much better with it inside
 
TheRobbo,
T

TheRobbo

Well-Known Member
OF said:
Please see my post five above yours for the second time I answered this.......

OF
Click to expand...

No in the post 5 above mine all you said was
"as I already said it is clamped against it"
Unless there is some fine print I missed that does not explain exactly where/how it was clamped only that it was. Also your post before that you specifically mentioned the bottom and tail cap but nothing about the other end, and every time I ask for clarification all you say is I have already answered that. Which I'm afraid you have not, you just keep saying that it is clamped but not how you clamped it or between what. Hence I keep asking.
I understand how you clamp the bottom with the tail cap, but not the top end where the cart screws in.......
 
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TheRobbo,
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
TheRobbo said:
Hence I keep asking.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry you don't understand, but asking the same question over and over is wasting my time and Forum bandwidth. Take it off line if you wish, but I will not respond to this topic here again.

OF
 
OF,
T

TheRobbo

Well-Known Member
you explained quite well how you were able to clamp the strap at the bottom end between the ring and the tail cap... All good and well...
Please for the sake of my sanity show me exactly where you went into more detail than "it's clamped" about the other end. Instead of passive aggressively assaulting my intelegence.
If you had answered more than half the question in the first place we would not be here right now.
 
TheRobbo,
T

TheRobbo

Well-Known Member
OK while I'm wasting forum bandwidth let's have a quick recap to see exactly who is wasting time...

Me: Hey OF how did you attach the strap up inside the tube?
OF: Not attached, but clamped by the tail cap (understood as the bottom/switch end)
Me: OK but what about the top? Where the cart screws in?
OF: As I already said clamped against it (still talking about the switch end not the end I asked about. We are agreed the the strap must have a contact at both ends to complete the circuit? )
Me: OK when you said tail cap I thought you were talking about the switch end. (Again not the end I asked about)
OF: Yes the switch end. (Still no mention of the top which is the end the question was about)
Me: OK I get how to clamp the bottom. With the tail cap/switch assembly. But what about the other end? Where the cart screws in? (Original question)
OF: I already answered this look 5 posts above yours. (5 posts above mine was an answer about the tail cap/switch end. Not what I asked)
Me: No you did not answer my question you keep talking about the switch end. So I will ask you once more... How do you attach/clamp the other end, at the top where the cart screws in? (To complete the circuit)
OF: (Attack to my intelligence) Stop wasting time. (it is you that is wasting time by continuing to not actually read the question and only talk about the tail cap/switch end and not the other half of the circuit which is what the original question was about)

Right I don't really expect an answer I just want to make sure everyone is on the same page that you are being a bit of an ass hat by answering the wrong question and then making out that I am dumb and wasting time and bandwidth because I keep asking. I keep asking because you have not answered the question. You clearly explained how you clamped the strap with the tail cap but I still see zero mention of how you achieved electrical contact at the other end of the strap, at the top where the cart screws in to complete the circuit. I'm sure everyone agrees that there must be contact at that point as well or are we relying on magic?

Edit: OK apologies for the name calling frustration vented... But seriously you can't honestly say the question has been answered fully? Having only explained how one side/end of the strap is clamped to the 2 SS parts 1 at either end!!!!!!

mod note: No name calling. Please review the rules.
 
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TheRobbo,
Quetzalcoatl

Quetzalcoatl

DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
OF said:
I'm sorry you don't understand, but asking the same question over and over is wasting my time and Forum bandwidth. Take it off line if you wish, but I will not respond to this topic here again.

OF
Click to expand...
Respectfully, even I don't know what you're supposed to do with the other end either. Do you just lay it against the strap inside?
 
Quetzalcoatl,
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
Quetzalcoatl said:
Respectfully, even I don't know what you're supposed to do with the other end either. Do you just lay it against the strap inside?
Click to expand...

No, the strap is insulated (and broken somewhere), that would do no good. The strap is sized to bridge the gap between the screw plate and the ring/endcap. It's clamped in place by screwing the endcap on against the tab on the bottom of the strap. It has to go between the battery and the wall, so it wants to be next to the strap (where the gap is widest), not on top of the strap (where it's narrower). The strap has to be thick enough to be stiff and therefore has to be brass not copper. Kind of fiddly, but it did show promise. I abandoned it when TV came up with the welded straps (a much superior fix that seemed to have ended the problem)?

OF said:
I didn't attach it, I clamped it in place by folding a tab over at the bottom and catching that with the tail cap.
Click to expand...

OF said:
It's not attached as I said. The strap was clamped against it.........
Click to expand...

There's also the option of converting to IMR 15500s with the spring around it (requires new batteries and changing them more often).

TheRobbo said:
Edit: OK apologies for the name calling frustration vented... But seriously you can't honestly say the question has been answered fully?
Click to expand...
Yes, I think I did answer the question, you get to decide if I answered it to your satisfaction. And if not, ask a different question (not t he same one over and over expecting a different answer). Frankly I feel no obligation to do so, I don't work for you, and your calling me names (rather than taking further discussion off line like I suggested) doesn't really help encourage that now does it?

OF
 
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OF,
notoriousLrg

notoriousLrg

sTrange cLouds
On the topic of Cera EO flavor.. for someone who has never seen the inside of the eo cart (except for some pictures via this forum), can someone explain how the eo operates/heats/reclaims to explain what seems to be pure flavor of the concentrate coming from the EO. Although I haven't tried the herc yet, I am not finding any comparable alternatives out there...
 
notoriousLrg,
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
notoriousLrg said:
On the topic of Cera EO flavor.. for someone who has never seen the inside of the eo cart (except for some pictures via this forum), can someone explain how the eo operates/heats/reclaims to explain what seems to be pure flavor of the concentrate coming from the EO.
Click to expand...

In the center of the cart is a spiral heater element of about a dozen turns maybe half an inch long and 1/8 in diameter standing upright. Around that are four porous ceramic 'doughnuts' and outside them a SS 'heat shield', which is part of the connector, and the wall of the outer cover On top of it is a plate of the same ceramic that nearly blocks the opening (and is trapped by it).

In use, concentrate is absorbed into the sponge like ceramic. The heater then heats the reservoir(s) to working temperature (mostly by radiant heat I suspect, rather than convection). The concentrate evaporates from withing the reservoirs as well as the surface.

Ideally the surface is wet enough that vapor happens there nearly instantly and is replaced by fresh concentrate between hits. OTOH, when it comes to flat out making vapor there's a LOT of power available and a lot of concentrate absorbed to tap.

OF
 
T

TheRobbo

Well-Known Member
The strap has to be thick enough to be stiff
Click to expand...

Ahhh! finally a little smidgen of a glimmer of more explanation than "its clamped..."

It [the strap] has to be rigid!!!!!! (Hehe Rigid :D)

If it is rigid then when you screw the tail cap on it will push the length of brass strap up inside the chamber and I'm guessing a little tab on the other end to make a contact with the top plate, making a mechanical connection needing to be re-set each battery change but a pretty reliable one.

Would it have hurt that much to go into slightly more detail about it? It took me one paragraph.
Or is it that if you can't work out how to do it with the barest bones of detail then you don't deserve OFs advice?
 
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TheRobbo,
notoriousLrg

notoriousLrg

sTrange cLouds
OF said:
In use, concentrate is absorbed into the sponge like ceramic.
Click to expand...
So it sounds like using ceramic as the saturation medium prevents other influences to the flavor. But the standard Ti heating element wrapped ceramic wick carts I've tried seem all to taste the same, without the flavor of the EO. Could it be that that aforementioned type of implementation leads to overheating. which influences the taste?

I wonder if TET has any patents around their EO?
 
notoriousLrg,
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OF

OF

Well-Known Member
notoriousLrg said:
Could it be that that aforementioned type of implementation leads to overheating. which influences the taste?

I wonder if TET has any patents around their EO?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think that's exactly the case. FWIW I don't think the element material matters all that much, hot metal is hot metal. The issue is with other designs the heater gets wet. Actual contact between the concentrate and the hot metal. No way to prevent some concentrate from being overheated seriously if the surface it's sitting on is suddenly rocketed up past 1000F. Cera EO has no such contact but rather gently heats the surfaces exposed to working temperature. Like the difference between grilling your steak in the normal manner and tossing it directly on the charcoals......both will cook the meat, but the results are different.

I'm sure TET has sufficient protection on their "IP" (Intellectual Property), most likely patents. Where those are and what they might cover I've no idea. But without such protections they really don't have a company with any value? Generally, when you sell a company it's the IP and physical inventory you sell (since the facility is generally leased).

The IP for Cera EO most likely starts with Revolution/DART which probably came from the AVA (e-cig) IP........ It could be buried pretty deep but a good patent search should find it I'd think? The ceramic material seems a key issue? It was used in e-cigs first I think.

OF
 
darkrom

darkrom

Great Scott!
I actually hope someone remakes the T1s but designed for better battery options. I had to sell my cera gear all to a friend. It was just sitting there causing me stress :(

The T1 days were when things felt GREAT. The cera was like "i guess its kinda better" and "its sort of still the same company".
 
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
darkrom said:
I actually hope someone remakes the T1s but designed for better battery options. I had to sell my cera gear all to a friend. It was just sitting there causing me stress :(

The T1 days were when things felt GREAT. The cera was like "i guess its kinda better" and "its sort of still the same company".
Click to expand...

I'm with you there. But nobody listens to me, either.

The fun bit is T1 is very cheap to make in large volume. The machines they used make LOTS of very precise parts automatically. Basically 'labor free'. TV never ran less than 15,000 parts in a run, many runs over 50,000 I was told. If they had simply sized it up to take 18650s it might be a different world for sure. Still, you play the cards you're dealt.

And make no mistake, when the factory warranty disappeared the game changed big time. The old products (like T1, Eclipse and Revolution/DART) took very little in the way of warranty service, unlike Cera and Luna. Cera was, I think, sorted out or nearly so, Luna still has some ground to cover.

OF
 
OF,
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jpdnkstr

jpdnkstr

Well-Known Member
darkrom said:
I actually think the herc tastes better with the titanium coil when loaded properly.
Click to expand...
I disagree.... In my opinion the Cera EO(Ti or SS) gives better flavor than my Herc(SS or Ti coils). I have owned both for more than a year(Herc since pre-order). I have been making my own supermelts much longer than that, and am very familiar with the flavor profiles of each. I hope I'm not coming across as rude, or as a Herc hater(I own multiple), I just prefer the Cera over all other portable oil vapes.(so much so, that it doesn't leave the house anymore!) It is too bad that they are no longer supported, or available new.......
 
jpdnkstr,
darkrom

darkrom

Great Scott!
jpdnkstr said:
I disagree.... In my opinion the Cera EO(Ti or SS) gives better flavor than my Herc(SS or Ti coils). I have owned both for more than a year(Herc since pre-order). I have been making my own supermelts much longer than that, and am very familiar with the flavor profiles of each. I hope I'm not coming across as rude, or as a Herc hater(I own multiple), I just prefer the Cera over all other portable oil vapes.(so much so, that it doesn't leave the house anymore!) It is too bad that they are no longer supported, or available new.......
Click to expand...


Not rude to have an opinion. I found the opposite which is weird. The herc seems to heat slower and more controlled while the cera was just BAM now I'm insanely hot with huge clouds. Cera made way bigger clouds for me, but I got a better flavor from my herc (ti) .

I'm sure some of it is subjective, but I am yet to find a better flavor out of my oil. The vapexnail maybe, but the water filtration mutes the flavor.
 
darkrom,
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Soflo

Soflo

Only birdshit and fools
About the (IP)... If a company closes its doors, what makes you think they will have the money to hire a patent lawyer to defend their patent?
Even if they were able to prove you were infringing on their patent, all you have to do is have the product manufactured in asia and no more issues. I'm thinking cera2.... encase the heating Element in ceramic, then use Ti mesh similar to the herc for the"sponge"
 
Soflo,
OF

OF

Well-Known Member
Soflo said:
About the (IP)... If a company closes its doors, what makes you think they will have the money to hire a patent lawyer to defend their patent?
Even if they were able to prove you were infringing on their patent, all you have to do is have the product manufactured in asia and no more issues.
Click to expand...

I think if you start making money using their IP, it won't be any trouble to find a lawyer to come take it all away from you. As long as someone, somewhere owns the IP and thinks it has value (which you'd prove I guess?).

Where you make it isn't important I think, no Distributor is going to touch your product once they get that letter on the long paper from some lawyers they never heard of. Their lawyer can, I think, be counted on to tell them to back off if you really have jumped their claim as yours would?

Sure you can give it a go if you've got personal bucks to risk? I seriously doubt any VC or other money will be offered once they know IP you don't own is in play. They know from experience what that means.

Unfortunately. I too would love to have them available again, but don't think this is the right way for that to happen.

OF
 
jdee

jdee

Well-Known Member
Interesting, I was just thinking about this very thing today...

We bought a product with a 'lifetime warranty' and now the company no longer exists. I still love the LL cart and made a boxmod for it. I would really hate to no longer be able to use it if it stops working. It would be great if someone/anyone could make these available via an open source project with the parts needed to build a cartridge available for purchase. Sites like shapeways or scultpeo allow you to upload cad files and get them printed in food grade ceramic.
 
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