the Michael Brown thread

Caligula

Maximus
I'm not talking about buying a product and negative reviews. I am speaking about what I have seen/read or heard involving police use of lethal force. I could post many more examples like Albuquerque, but I don't think I could ever post enough to satisfy you, so I chose not to do so.

You really couldn't unless your examples can come close to validating the statement that "American police opt for the lethal option over non lethal methods most of the time". Even if you posted 100 news stories, that would still be a fraction of 1% of the total amount of encounters the public has with the police... on a daily basis.

Im not asking you to change your mind that there is police corruption and misuse of power/force. That exists, 100%. What I'm trying to get at, is asserting that a majority of the police do this, a majority of the time, is a little out there.... mathematically speaking.

And a live feed is only the neutral and negative?

I assumed you hadnt watched the feeds because I thought you would be atleast alittle more worried about the train professions actions.

I was talking about the news reports and blog articles that were being posted. Typically people dont rush out to report "cop doesnt shoot drunk man walking in the road, ends in arrest". Kind of makes using reports like that a little skewed in one direction, you know?

BTW, it seems like there are enough people in this thread who are worried about the trained professionals and their actions. Perhaps you'd like to start offering up some support for the cops so I can take a break from keeping things level?
 
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Caligula,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
You really couldn't unless your examples can come close to validating the statement that "American police opt for the lethal option over non lethal methods most of the time".

I am sure that I could, but like I said, I chose not to. :)
 
Vicki,

olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
I am sure that I could, but like I said, I chose not to. :)
You can post all the video and stories you like, I dont think it will matter because as Caligura argued before the percentage compared to all cop incounters might be low.

I think Vicki is saying that police often times use more excessive force than necessary.
But like I told Cali there lies the problem, very few departments release this information.

Quick google article on it:
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...25/lack-transparency-enables-police-brutality

So unless your interested in going and doing a study all across the country I think it will be hard to convince Cali
 

2clicker

Observer
on the bright side i do not think there was really any violence last night.

bS3agRo.jpg

If you go be careful...

8BZDneO.png

And be sure to represent :peace:

yeah. ive got obligations at home so that is my excuse why i havent made my way there yet. this weekend though should be a different story. i feel the need to help be a voice for the people in my community who dont seem to ever get a fair shake. im not looking for "action" or trying to be cool (not saying you were saying that) or anything. i just have this urge to join. i dont know.
 

Caligula

Maximus
I am sure that I could, but like I said, I chose not to. :)

:lol: I literally said that exact same thing to my wife last night when she was watching a dude on TV pull a car with his nipple piercings.

CarTowPic.jpg


True story.

edit:

@olivianewtonjohn I'm not looking to be convinced that there is misuse of police power and use of excessive force. Of course that exists. However if you are going to tell me that this happens "all" or "most" of the time, you better be prepared to backup that statement with some facts.
 
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Been Vapin

Fringe Class
Really been biting my tounge the last few pages and not because of any of your posts. The whole situation has me sour.

Anyways, the group social media reporting or whatever they call it (reddit live) has its downsides. If you followed the reddit thread on the Boston bombings you will know two dudes with backpacks were singled out as the bombers by reddit. Turns out they were not the bombers. One gave news interview, while the other was mysteriously went missing while being missing and was found dead. Don't believe everything you read. RIP Sunil.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...edia-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/
 

Caligula

Maximus
Really been biting my tounge the last few pages and not because of any of your posts. The whole situation has me sour.

Anyways, the group social media reporting or whatever they call it (reddit live) has its downsides. If you followed the reddit thread on the Boston bombings you will know two dudes with backpacks were singled out as the bombers by reddit. Turns out they were not the bombers. One gave news interview, while the other was mysteriously went missing while being missing and was found dead. Don't believe everything you read. RIP Sunil.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...edia-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/

I believe the same group also erroneously posted information of the wrong police officer before the actual officer's name was released. Resulted in death threats to that cop and his family... hopefully it doesn't go any further.

In somewhat related news, Im still LOLing about this:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/o...-twitter-mockery/story-fnjwnhzf-1227029281902
 
Caligula,
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olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
@olivianewtonjohn I'm not looking to be convinced that there is misuse of police power and use of excessive force. Of course that exists. However if you are going to tell me that this happens "all" or "most" of the time, you better be prepared to backup that statement with some facts.

Lets not change the point. How many police encounters were last year? Of course there was one or more cases of "misuse of police power and use of excessive force".

You can post all the video and stories you like, I dont think it will matter because as Caligura argued before the percentage compared to all cop incounters might be low.

I think Vicki is saying that police often times use more excessive force than necessary.
But like I told Cali there lies the problem, very few departments release this information.

Quick google article on it:
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...25/lack-transparency-enables-police-brutality

So unless your interested in going and doing a study all across the country I think it will be hard to convince Cali

Thats the point. We are not comfortable with the amount of misuse of police power that we are seeing and we believe it is beyond a reasonable threshold. We are going on the information that we have since as I have said there is a lack of transparency from the police departments.
 

Caligula

Maximus
Lets not change the point. How many police encounters were last year? Of course there was one or more cases of "misuse of police power and use of excessive force".

:huh:

I'm not following the "one or more cases" part and how it relates to anything here. I'm afraid some elaboration is in order for me to reply to this.


olivianewtonjohn said:
I think Vicki is saying that police often times use more excessive force than necessary.

Thats the point. We are not comfortable with the amount of misuse of police power that we are seeing and we believe it is beyond a reasonable threshold. We are going on the information that we have since as I have said there is a lack of transparency from the police departments.

I'm appreciative that you are trying to speak for Vicki as to what she actually meant, however she has yet to bring up this contention of yours even after I pushed for clarification on the subject.

The whole point is kind of moot, though, since we can scroll back and see what she posted... verbatim.

My point was that American police always opt for the lethal option over non lethal methods.

As I said before, I'm more than willing to admit that there is excessive use of force and unjustified killings going on by police. The contention here is that this happens "all" or "most" of the time.

My father was very wise when he told me to say what I mean and mean what I say.
 
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Caligula,
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olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
:huh:

I'm not following the "one or more cases" part and how it relates to anything here. I'm afraid some elaboration is in order for me to reply to this.




Im appreciative that you are trying to speak for Vicki and what she actually meant, however she has yet to bring up this contention of yours.

But the point is kind of moot since we can scroll back and see what she posted, verbatim.
Ok I wont speak for Vicki. Thats what I gathered what she meant.

Let me know if you disagree with what I posted above

"I'm not following the "one or more cases" part and how it relates to anything here. I'm afraid some elaboration is in order for me to reply to this."
I took this as you acknowledging that misuse of police power happens. The point im raising is it seems to happen too much (again given the information that we have). Excessive force happens more often than reasonable, thats the point im making

EDIT: @Caligula so you see my edit.
 
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olivianewtonjohn,
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Madcap79

Jack of all trades, master of none.
Bill O'Rielly agrees with you @Caligula . He even cut his vacation short because he was so upset that people rushed to judgement. 99.9% of arrests ended without fatalities. No one can argue that. It's fact. So they only kill people 0.1% of the time. He added, 'most of them probably justified'. You're welcome.
 
Madcap79,
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Caligula

Maximus
Let me know if you disagree with what I posted above

I still don't get it. But dabs n all...

Bill O'Rielly agrees with you @Caligula . He even cut his vacation short because he was so upset that people rushed to judgement. 99.9% of arrests ended without fatalities. No one can argue that. It's fact. So they only kill people 0.1% of the time. He added, 'most of them probably justified'. You're welcome.

While those numbers are obviously bullshit, even a broken clocks right twice a day. Hell, maybe even Hitler would agree with me?

Hitler loved dogs BTW. Good thing I'm a cat person.

4UyHG.jpg
 

2clicker

Observer
Bill O'Rielly agrees with you @Caligula . He even cut his vacation short because he was so upset that people rushed to judgement. 99.9% of arrests ended without fatalities. No one can argue that. It's fact. So they only kill people 0.1% of the time. He added, 'most of them probably justified'. You're welcome.

papa bear...?
 
2clicker,
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grokit

well-worn member
Five Unarmed Black Men Killed by Police Within a Month
NationofChange / News Report
Published: Wednesday 20 August 2014
When will government officials address racial tensions and the militarization of its police force?
Until then, the violence will continue.


BlackMenKilledbyCops082014.jpg


In less than a month, cops have been responsible for killing at least five unarmed black men. Police officials have confirmed Eric Garner, John Crawford, Ezell Ford, Dante Parker, and Michael Brown were not carrying lethal weapons when authorities executed them. As racial tensions continue to escalate in Ferguson, militarized law enforcement agencies show no signs of ending the violence.

On July 17, NYPD Officer Justin Damico accused Eric Garner, 43, of selling untaxed cigarettes. A witness recorded video footage of Garner arguing with Damico when Officer Daniel Pantaleo crept up behind Garner and placed him in a chokehold. Officers piled on top of Garner as he weakly repeated, “I can’t breathe.”

After releasing the chokehold, Pantaleo placed his knee on the back of Garner’s head pressing his face into the pavement. Garner died of cardiac arrest induced by Pantaleo’s chokehold. The NYPD banned the use of chokeholds in 1994 after an officer placed Anthony Baez in a chokehold resulting in his death.

On August 5, witnesses reported seeing John Crawford, 22, walking around inside a Walmart in Beavercreek, Ohio, carrying what appeared to be a rifle. Unbeknownst to police and the witnesses, Crawford had been holding a .177 caliber BB gun he had found in the store. Two police officers arrived ordering Crawford to drop the rifle. Instead of releasing the toy gun, Crawford was struck in the chest as the cops opened fire. They immediately handcuffed Crawford who died at the hospital as a result of his wounds.
On the evening of August 11, two LAPD officers confronted Ezell Ford, 25, as he was walking on the sidewalk. According to an LAPD press release, Ford attacked one of the officers attempting to grab his holstered gun. As the fight fell to the ground, the officer shot Ford with his backup piece while his partner open fire on Ford. They handcuffed Ford and transported him to a hospital where he was pronounced dead.

According to eyewitnesses, the mentally ill Ford had surrendered to the police and had been lying on his stomach when they repeatedly shot him in the back. The LAPD has delayed the release of his autopsy report in light of recent protests.

On August 12, a sheriff’s deputy confronted Dante Parker, 36, on suspicion of breaking into a residence in Victorville, California. The deputy claims Parker became uncooperative and had to be stunned with a taser multiple times. While handcuffed and detained on the backseat of the patrol car, Parker reportedly began sweating profusely and developed difficulty breathing. Parker later died in the hospital, and the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department has opened an investigation into his death.

On August 9, Officer Darren Wilson gunned down Michael Brown, 18, on the streets of Ferguson, Missouri. Multiple autopsies confirm Brown had been shot at least 4 times in the arm and twice in the head. Witnesses state Brown was unarmed and surrendering when Wilson shot him.

In a case of mistaken identity, Ferguson police arrested Henry Davis on September 20, 2009. Because he shared the same name of a man with an outstanding warrant, Davis was thrown in jail and severely beaten by his guards. Officers John Beaird and Christopher Pillarick allegedly had Davis handcuffed on the floor when they started hitting him. Officer Michael White has been accused of kicking Davis in the head causing a concussion and a large wound. The officers charged Davis with destruction of property for bleeding on their uniforms.

Heavily criticized for mishandling the civil unrest in Ferguson, government officials have refused to concede to the protestors’ demands to charge Officer Darren Wilson with the murder of Michael Brown. In a devious public relations stunt, law enforcement officials released Wilson’s identity along with a video of Brown allegedly shoplifting. Missouri Governor Jay Nixon instituted police curfews and called in the National Guard. Instead of charging Wilson with a crime, St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch passed the buck to a grand jury that is now responsible for handling the investigation.

Amnesty International has sent a delegation into Ferguson to monitor police tactics used during the protests as at least eight journalists have been arrested. On August 18, Ryan Devereaux of The Intercept and Lukas Hermsmeier, a German reporter for Bild, were shot with rubber bullets and arbitrarily detained. Photographer Scott Olson from Getty Images, Kerry Picket from Breitbart News, and two German reporters for Die Welt, Ansgar Graw and Frank Hermann, have been arrested and released without charges. The first journalists arrested were Ryan Reilly of The Huffington Post and Wesley Lowery of The Washington Post last week inside a McDonald’s.

Unless government officials address racial tensions, de-escalate the militarization of its police force, and charge Officer Wilson with a crime, Ferguson residents assert that the violence will only continue.
 

Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
Yes but that particular "idiot" has a badge and an assault rifle.

Absolutely, and just think how much of that authoritarian bullshit happens everyday and doesn't get caught on video. Maybe Caligula thinks this type of police attitude and intimidation is a rare incidence... That's hard for me to believe. A cop shouting at a peaceful protestor " I'm going to fucking kill you" that's fucking scary!!
 

Caligula

Maximus
Please refrain from mind reading what other members are thinking. It is antagonizing and can only lead to the devolution of the thread. Keep it civil, or the thread will be ABV'd.

:peace:

To be fair, it seems that I'm more of a factor in destabilizing this thread than anything or anyone else. Perhaps it best I bow out.
 

mestizo

Well-Known Member
To be fair, it seems that I'm more of a factor in destabilizing this thread than anything or anyone else. Perhaps it best I bow out.
Man, just look at the ton of likes you'll get after that statement you just made, LOL.
No, seriously, I thought you were giving this thread a healthy balance, it is good to hear different opinions, even if those don't agree with yours.
 

olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
To be fair, it seems that I'm more of a factor in destabilizing this thread than anything or anyone else. Perhaps it best I bow out.
Well if your not getting enjoyment/information from this thread then it makes sense to leave. I will say I have enjoyed our debate even if it got heated

Check this interview out, pretty interesting even if you dont agree with everything he is saying (the MB situation). Father was a police officer and he is a "gangster rapper" (I have one of his cds not a typical ignorant rapper). What he is doing in his community is pretty cool and his message is legit
 

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
To be fair, it seems that I'm more of a factor in destabilizing this thread than anything or anyone else. Perhaps it best I bow out.
I thought you were doing an admirable job. I didn't join the discussion to disagree, I'm just at odds with the prison industrial complex and the militarization of police and SWAT. Over 100 SWAT raids per day in this country. No knock warrant, bang, your dog is dead kinda shit. This neo-police state is not a positive thing in my opinion. Police can be your best friend, at least thats what I was taught as a kid but now with all the dog shooting and shit going on, I dunno . . .
 

Magic9

Plant Enthusiast
Anytime a group of people have power over another, shit goes wrong. The sad part, in a few weeks, this will all be over. The police will continue to ramp up. More equipment, more funding, more power taken from regular people. People will quit paying attention and we'll start all over. Until the next time they suspend The Bill of Rights for their benefit.

If that cop had been beaten, not only would they be falling all over themselves to release a picture, the tone from the Feds on this would be a lot different.

@Caligula If there is no counter-point, what's the point?
 

grokit

well-worn member
:rip: Who was Michael Brown, beneath the spin?

"Mike was a big guy who his family called their "Gentle Giant." He was built to be a high school football player -- direct from central casting -- but Mike was too timid for the sport. According to friends and family, he had never been in a fight in his life. And, of course, it logically follows that Mike Brown had never had a criminal record or a single run-in with the police. He lived with his parents and threatened and intimidated no one. At school, he was that kid who was full of jokes and trying to make others laugh. Still... Mike Brown was a big guy. And he was black, living in a majority black town of 21,000 residents ruled by a white police force... ten days before he was shot to death -- Mike Brown achieved the greatest victory of his young life: He earned his diploma on August 1st, through sheer dogged persistence."

michael-brown-ferguson-08-767x1024.jpg


• He was 17-year old kid that actually graduated from his high school. If this doesn't sound like an accomplishment to you, check out his high school, its poverty is beyond incredulous -- it's criminal:

"The grinding poverty in Mike's world only allowed Normandy High School to acquire two graduation gowns to be shared by the entire class... This district was created by merging two of the poorest, most heavily minority districts around St. Louis—Normandy and Wellston. The poverty rate for families sending their kids to Normandy Schools was 92 percent. At Wellston School District, the poverty rate was 98 percent. Every single student in the Wellston district was African American.
Plagued by white flight, crashing property values that destroyed tax revenues, and a loss of state funds as the better-off residents of the area sent their children to private schools, the resulting district isn't just short of gowns, it's short of everything. Residents of the district voted again and again to raise their own property taxes, until their rates were actually the highest in the state, but a higher percentage of nothing was still nothing, and district revenues trended steadily down."
It gets even worse, more here.

• Against all of these odds he made it into college, so a productive future was within his grasp:
"Brown was visiting his grandmother, Desuirea Harrison, when he was shot in the working-class St. Louis suburb. He graduated from Normandy High School in St. Louis in the spring of 2014, and was scheduled to start classes at Vatterott College, a Missouri trade college, two days after he was killed."
And again, Michael Brown had no criminal record at the time of his death, according to police.
He was certainly way more than this:
michael-brown.jpg


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Tears roll down the cheek of Lesley McSpadden, the mother of slain teenager Michael Brown.
 
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