tuk
Well-Known Member
Then you must be watching the wrong video:
Is the car moving when the smashing of windows begins?
Is the car moving when the cops are being aggressive?
Is the car moving when the cops are shouting?
Watch from 12:30min
the Michael Brown thread
- Thread starter 2clicker
- Start date
Then you must be watching the wrong video:
Is the car moving when the smashing of windows begins?
Is the car moving when the cops are being aggressive?
Is the car moving when the cops are shouting?
Watch from 12:30min
Caligula
Maximus
The car was moving from 4:33 to 5:32, which is what matters. That's when things went from traffic stop with the nice cop to felony evasion.
Of course, she also had the grace period between 5:32 and 12:38 (over 6 full minutes) in which to avoid windows being smashed and aggressive backup officers reacting to a crazy situation.
tuk
Well-Known Member
See if some bold helps...
You need to take a moment and read what has been written & by who ..I made the original post to which magic9 is responding to.
That means I get to decide which part of the video I'm referring to( in that post )...not you.
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Caligula
Maximus
I suppose we should just drop it if you don't care to elaborate further. Its quite okay with me, its pretty OT anyway.
Okay.
Alright... so you took a small part of what @Magic9 posted and responded to it. We can see that the part you selected to quote was him stating that he "did not see anyone getting aggressive, shouting, or smashing windows until after the lady pulls away".
I was obviously referring to the fact (IMO, so was magic after reading the entirety of his post) that the woman had already run for the police once. I dont see how this is off topic or misconstruing things.
Yes sir. If you ask me to exclude context, I will do just that. Thank you for bringing my failure to light.
Okay.
Alright... so you took a small part of what @Magic9 posted and responded to it. We can see that the part you selected to quote was him stating that he "did not see anyone getting aggressive, shouting, or smashing windows until after the lady pulls away".
I was obviously referring to the fact (IMO, so was magic after reading the entirety of his post) that the woman had already run for the police once. I dont see how this is off topic or misconstruing things.
Yes sir. If you ask me to exclude context, I will do just that. Thank you for bringing my failure to light.
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tuk
Well-Known Member
You want me to elaborate further than:
Why don't you start by explaining why mass murders complete with nazi flags are even vaguely relevant in a thread about heavy handed cops, particularly a video showing a scatty mother at a routine traffic stop?
Wrong.
The only context we need is the original post, so just quote that originating post so I know you have actually read and understood what's being said...then I'l respond to it.
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Caligula
Maximus
Then I apologize, perhaps it is I who missed something. What exactly was your point when you brought up that the driver was mentally ill and off her proper "anti-psychotic meds"? It seemed to me like you were using these facts as a mitigating factor, as well as a reason as to why the cops actions were excessively aggressive. Perhaps I misunderstood?
edit: BTW, the "routine traffic stop" stopped being "routine" after the lady ran from the police. In fact I might argue it was never routine given how she reacted from the start.
You know whats cool about this thread? For the most part people have been very adult about the conversations going on, even when they disagree.
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tuk
Well-Known Member
Still not seeing the link between this women's meds & mass murders with nazi flags.
Are mass murderers with nazi flags the only people who take "anti-psychotic meds" ?
What percentage of people who take "anti-psychotic meds" are also mass murdering nazi flag wavers?
Nothing adult about butting into the middle of a conversation without first understanding what's being said then trying to rewrite the history of the conversation to suit your own arguments.
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Chill Dude
Well-Known Member
Yes!! If their only other option was to shoot her, then yeah, I'd let her drive off. It's not like they won't catch her. They know who she is, they know her car, they know where she lives. I'm sure she would end up getting what she deserves....but, for that cop to shoot at her in a van loaded with kids without his life or any other cops lives in danger......sorry, that's just plain stupid!
Caligula
Maximus
You're right. Not everyone on heavy psychotropic meds is a mass murdering Nazi.
However...
http://www.sott.net/article/279716-...hares-one-thing-in-common-and-it-isnt-weapons
BTW, your obsessing over that flag for no real reason. Just wanted to throw that out there.
grokit
well-worn member
Also, I'm glad no one with a diagnosed mental illness has done anything dangerous to the public or law enforcement.
As a bonus Ill let you guess which of these 4 mass murders were prescribed anti-psychotics.
Just saying.
And if these guys were black they wouldn't described as having mental illnesses,
they'd be described as violent gang-banging thugs. Just saying.
Kind of an interesting side point, how many mass murders have been black?
The only one I can think of is the beltway sniper.
Caligula
Maximus
I know, right? They never look into that stuff.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125660
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013...treated-mentally-ill-man-becomes-mass-killer/
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/menta...er-sought-mental-health-treatment-f4B11199522
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ded664-2554-11e3-b3e9-d97fb087acd6_story.html
I'd try to find more examples, but I can't think of any other black mass murders off the top of my head.
tuk
Well-Known Member
The reason is the nazi flag is irrelevant to the mother and kids in the video & so are the mass murderers you posted.
The women in the video doesn't own a nazi flag & hasn't murdered anyone.
Can you see the problem with your strawman argument now?
Caligula
Maximus
I asked you to elaborate as to why you brought up the driver's mental illness and her medication. I've yet to see an answer to that, so I must go off of assumptions (feel free to correct them, as I know assumptions aren't always right). I would assume that you are trying to rationalize the driver's actions, while diminishing the validity of the police's claim that the use of force was justified. That, plus your post stating "police are trained to spot mental illness", lead me to post the reply in contention here (with the aforementioned picture).
Now lets connect the dots.
Argument: Mental illness and receiving improper anti-psychotic medication should have been a mitigating factor during this situation.
Counter Argument: The fact that the driver needs anti-psychotics and has taken the incorrect medication actually increases the risk to everyone involved.
Reasoning for the picture:
All 4 of those individuals had been previously prescribed psychotropic drugs to treat mental disorders. A point further driven home by the link I later provided categorically listing all of the mass murders in the last 20 years and the medications they were prescribed.
So to bring things full circle, no not all people on anti-psychotics are mass-murders, however the fact that almost all mass murders were on them at one point or another should say something. At the very least that should mean that a LEO who is "trained to spot mental illness" might very well be within his rights to be EXTRA cautious or even overly aggressive in a situation like that.
We good now?
Caligula
Maximus
You know, you really can't argue with that logic.Chill Dude
Well-Known Member
I really don't have anything to add regarding mass murderers or Nazi flags hahaha.
Caligula, I just wanted to point out that the link you referred to regarding mass shootings and psychotropic drugs; was referring to antidepressants, not anti-psychotics which are totally different types of drugs. Not that that means anything to your discussion. I just wanted to mention it.
Caligula, I just wanted to point out that the link you referred to regarding mass shootings and psychotropic drugs; was referring to antidepressants, not anti-psychotics which are totally different types of drugs. Not that that means anything to your discussion. I just wanted to mention it.
olivianewtonjohn
Well-Known Member
Wow this thread has something for everyone.
On another note have you guys checked out The House I Live In? I think its on netflix if not probably youtube.
Very good documentary. Related to our discussion on disproportionate arrests and militerized police.
On another note have you guys checked out The House I Live In? I think its on netflix if not probably youtube.
Very good documentary. Related to our discussion on disproportionate arrests and militerized police.
Caligula
Maximus
@Chill Dude Fair enough. I'm super lazy right now (aka high) so I'll invite anyone interested to Google up "anti-psychotics + mass murders". We can pretend I linked one of those pages instead. 
All that being, said do we even really know what this woman suffers from, and what meds she was or wasn't taking (as the case may be)? I don't see any citation for any of this.
All that being, said do we even really know what this woman suffers from, and what meds she was or wasn't taking (as the case may be)? I don't see any citation for any of this.
Magic9
Plant Enthusiast
I do apologize. I wasn't clear enough. When I said "pulling away", I did not mean in the vehicle. I meant she, herself, pulled away from the cop. Watch from about 11:50. At 12:02, a young man rushes the cop.
The smashing of windows, being aggressive, and shouting, all occur after the lady flees, physically pulls away from the cop, the cop is rushed at, and the people jump back into the vehicle.
Caligula
Maximus
Well then, I misread your intent. I apologize. Thankfully that has no bearing on the point I was trying to make.
As soon as the woman disobeyed a direct lawful order from a peace officer and drove away (the first time), things went from a simple a traffic stop and became felony evasion.
It was at that point where "cops being aggressive" and "smashing windows" (and yes even the shouting) was warranted.
BTW anyone remember this? It sounds somewhat familiar:
To recap, the woman driving the G37 coupe (my wife has the exact same car, lol) had mental issues and went off her meds. Long story short, she went crazy thinking Obama was out to get her and when she got pulled over... with her 1 year old in the car... she ran from the police. She ends up getting shot to death while attempting to run over some cops, who used their rocket science to try and box her in. But not before she tore up and down Washington DC, endangering countless civilians (including her own child), as well as the LEOs with her 3600lb, 325hp vehicle.
Don't know if I have a point, just thought it was rather similar and a glimpse of a different potential outcome given similar factors.
As soon as the woman disobeyed a direct lawful order from a peace officer and drove away (the first time), things went from a simple a traffic stop and became felony evasion.
It was at that point where "cops being aggressive" and "smashing windows" (and yes even the shouting) was warranted.
BTW anyone remember this? It sounds somewhat familiar:
To recap, the woman driving the G37 coupe (my wife has the exact same car, lol) had mental issues and went off her meds. Long story short, she went crazy thinking Obama was out to get her and when she got pulled over... with her 1 year old in the car... she ran from the police. She ends up getting shot to death while attempting to run over some cops, who used their rocket science to try and box her in. But not before she tore up and down Washington DC, endangering countless civilians (including her own child), as well as the LEOs with her 3600lb, 325hp vehicle.
Don't know if I have a point, just thought it was rather similar and a glimpse of a different potential outcome given similar factors.
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grokit
well-worn member
Back to Ferguson (I hope):
A couple of developments regarding the "shoplifting/strong-arm robbery".
Attorney For Ferguson Market:
NO ONE From His Store Called 911 To Report Cigar Theft
St. Louis local news is reporting that the Attorney for the Ferguson store, Jake Kanzler said the the Ferguson store owner, nor any store employee called the police to report any shoplifting of cigars, but, rather, a customer called the police. (more)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft
and:
Michael Brown, Ferguson Victim Paid For His Rellos
A couple of developments regarding the "shoplifting/strong-arm robbery".
Attorney For Ferguson Market:
NO ONE From His Store Called 911 To Report Cigar Theft
St. Louis local news is reporting that the Attorney for the Ferguson store, Jake Kanzler said the the Ferguson store owner, nor any store employee called the police to report any shoplifting of cigars, but, rather, a customer called the police. (more)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft
and:
Michael Brown, Ferguson Victim Paid For His Rellos
olivianewtonjohn
Well-Known Member
LOL so they released the story to distractA couple of interesting developments regarding the "shoplifting/strong-arm robbery".
Attorney For Ferguson Market:
NO ONE From His Store Called 911 To Report Cigar Theft
St. Louis local news is reporting that the Attorney for the Ferguson store, Jake Kanzler said the the Ferguson store owner, nor any store employee called the police to report any shoplifting of cigars, but, rather, a customer called the police.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft
and:
Michael Brown, Ferguson Victim Paid For His Rellos
EDIT: I guess to an extent even if he didnt pay its a distraction. I believe they released the video instead of releasing the officers name (at that time).
aesthyrian
Blaaaaah
God damn that lady in the video is crazy fucking stupid. That cop is a saint for the amount of patience he showed.
But really, why did any of the officer's feel the need to shoot the car? Did the initial officer not already have the woman's information including the car's license plate number? Could they not have tracked her down later, like maybe at her house perhaps? Isn't that the point of registering cars and having license plates and drivers licenses and all that?
But really, why did any of the officer's feel the need to shoot the car? Did the initial officer not already have the woman's information including the car's license plate number? Could they not have tracked her down later, like maybe at her house perhaps? Isn't that the point of registering cars and having license plates and drivers licenses and all that?
Chill Dude
Well-Known Member
I agree ,the lady defiantly was "crazy fucking stupid". That said, that one cop shouldn't have started shooting at her. I posted something similar to your post a page or 2 back. They know who she is, they know where she lives, they know her vehicle and license#. Just pick her up later..she will get what she deserves. Don't fucking shoot at her and her kids when your life's not in immediate danger.
