the Michael Brown thread

olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
At about 15 minutes until midnight ferguson time, nothing like surfing fc on one monitor and watching live feeds of swat police on the other. The comments on livestream are quite nasty/revealing.
did you happen to see this live, I think it just happened. Crazy:


EDIT: Hearing from Vice reporter Tim that this isnt the full quote. Cops said, move your in our line of fire/cross fire. So him talking about firing could be in relation to that.
 
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olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
No but here's another feed looks like maybe the command center, I think it may be the same feed as the small corner of the vice broadcast. Seems to be better quality.
http://new.livestream.com/timcast/news
The black cop is there in back, looks like the one they made a commander? The rest are ignoring him.
1st ammendment doesnt apply? I honestly dont understand why he was giving command to put their camera away? Werent they in public?
 

2clicker

Observer
I feel like focusing on the riots is really a distraction. Having a debate about the looting also a distraction. The initial issue and cops firing tear gas at reporters and acting CRAZY is alot more important than the distractions. :2c:

Here is a clip of a protest that happened a few years ago. (read the captions at the top of the video, contains important info). Notice the random firing in the crowd because someone said, "fucking pigs". Notice the firing on reporters (because they were with the protestors and not with the cops like the other reporters).

I for one think cops need to be held to a HIGHER standard than civilians. Macing occupy protestors and getting a paid vacation is not cool. If you or I did that we would be in a cage. Police should be a profession that citizens are not scared of and actually honor/respect like an ambulance worker or firefighter.

EDIT: Im sure everyone has seen this but just incase:

wild wild west shit no doubt.

I love those two songs as well.
Many do, perhaps because anarchy is what this country was founded upon.

“Every generation needs a new revolution.”
~ Thomas Jefferson​

a quote from arguably the greatest emcee of all time... "can there ever really be justice on stolen land" - KRS-one

as much as i want to put stock into this countrys forefathers... i find it hard to do so considering. we came here, raped and murdered the natives, stole their land and basically destroyed everything they believe in, set up shop and then it was "our" country. shit... mexicans are more native to north america than most americans, but they better not cross that fucking border. shit is all turned around. history has been erased and they teach lies in school. haha im rambling now.

btw im not disagreeing with you. its just your post made me think of this shit. and ive been sipping IPAs again tonight so i cant help
myself.
 

Been Vapin

Fringe Class
Summary of brief press-conference:
Domino's Pizza, Family Dollar, Self Storage, O'Reilly Auto Parts, McDonalds, all confirmed having been looted. Molotov Cocktails thrown, and police have been shot at and have had bottles thrown at them. Determined to restore peace to Ferguson. Also the riots have been going on for longer in than the 65 or 92 riots.

My updated version of April 29 1992. Didn't have to make too many changes. I put in factual places where events occurred. A lot of the rioting cities in 1992 have had protests this week.



(I don't know if you can, but can you get an order for QT, that's Q-T
QuickTrip the address is 9420 W. Florissant, Ferguson, all the windows are
busted out, and it's like a free for all here,
and uh, the owner should maybe come down here and see if he can secure his business,
if he wants to)

August 10th, 2014
There was a riot on streets
Tell me where were you?
You were sittin' home watchin' FC
While I was participating in some anarchy
First spot we hit it was my liquor store
I finally got all that alcohol I can't afford
With red lights flashin', time to retire
And then we turned that QuickTrip into a structure fire
Next stop we hit, it was the music shop,
It only took one brick to make the window drop
Finally we got our own P.A.
Where do you think I got this guitar that you're hearing today?

("Call fire and tell them respond local station out to meet us at W. Florissant. It's uh, flaming up good." "10-4 at Florissant)

When we returned to the pad to unload everything
It dawned on me that I need new home furnishings
So once again we filled the van until it was full
Since that day my livin' room's been much more comfortable
'Cause everybody in the hood has had it up to here
It's getting harder, and harder, and harder each and every year
Some kids went in a store with their mother
I saw her when she came out she was gettin' some Pampers
They said it was for the black man
They said it was for the Mexican
And not for the white man
But if you look at the streets, it was about Michael Brown
In this fucked-up situation and these fucked-up police
It's about comin' up and stayin' on top
And screamin' 1-8-7 on a mother fuckin' cop
It's not in the paper, it's on the wall
National guard
Rubber bullets and tear gas from all around

(Units, units be advised of an attempted 211 to arrest now at 1409 Chambers, 1-4-0-9 Chambers
thirty subjects with bats trying to get inside the CP's house...he thinks out there trying to kill him)

'Cause as long as I'm alive, I'ma live illegal

Let it burn
Wanna let it burn, wanna let it burn
Wanna wanna let it burn
(I feel insanity)
Riots on the streets in Missouri
Whoa, riots on the streets of Ferguson
On the streets of W. Florissant
Protests in the streets of Miami
Protests in San Francisco
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Milwaukee
Chicago
Indianapolis
NYC
Eugene, Oregon
Eureka, California
Phoenix, Arizona
Seattle, Washington
fuckin' Washington D.C.

(Any unit to assist Frank-74, Canfield at Clarian.. structure fire and numerous subjects looting)
(10-15 to get rid of this looter)
 

Caligula

Maximus
Pretty sure it was brought up a few times in this thread that MB was shot in the back.

Doesn't seem to be the case.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...hows-ferguson-teen-shot-least-6-times-n182816

privateautopsy_253e55b9991cac5f83c0a8b619bce361.nbcnews-ux-360-280.png


6 shots, all to the front of the body. And this is the autopsy done by the MD hired by the Brown family.

In any case, this information sort of plays in with a new video that came out. In the video (taken a few minutes after the shooting) two bystanders talk about what just went down. Seems pretty sincere given how soon after the incident the video was recorded. Much too quick for anyone to be swayed by public opinion or the media.


Quotations below start @ 6:28/6:29 of YT video:

Bystander #1 How’d he get from there to there?

Bystander #2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck

{crosstalk}

#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him

{crosstalk}

#2 Then the next thing I know he coming back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –

#1. Oh, the police got his gun

#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him

{crosstalk}

#2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing

#1 The Police?

#2 The Police shot him

#1 Police?

#2 The next thing I know … I’m thinking … the dude started running … (garbled, possibly “he took it from him”).

As I've been trying to say, it's always best to wait for information to come in and be vetted before jumping to conclusions and/or making assumptions.
 
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Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
As I've been trying to say, it's always best to wait for information to come in and be vetted before jumping to conclusions and/or making assumptions.

Nah, I like to make assumptions and jump to conclusions before all the facts and evidence are in. It's just more fun that way! And when more evidence is presented, I then jump to new conclusions based on the new information LOL...... This would be a boring thread if people didn't make assumptions as to what happened. Let's face it, it will be months before all of the facts, evidence and testimonies are out there for the public to digest.
 
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grokit

well-worn member
He was shot twice in the head, and then the cop unloaded four more rounds into Micheal's body, which was laying on the ground because he was already SHOT IN THE HEAD, TWICE.

"Michael Brown is one of four unarmed black men killed in the last month by police. On July 17, Eric Garner was killed by an illegal chokehold in New York. On August 5, John Crawford was shot in a store in Beavercreek, OH. Just after Brown’s death, on August 9 Ezell Ford, a young man with known mental illness, was shot in Los Angeles. These are four examples of many, according to a recent study, a black man is killed every 28 hours by police, security guards or vigilantes."
 

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
It's hard to see oppression if a person has never had to experience it, including myself.
 
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Caligula

Maximus
He was shot twice in the head, and then the cop unloaded four more rounds into Micheal's body, which was laying on the ground because he was already SHOT IN THE HEAD, TWICE.

And this is the official timeline of how the shots occurred according whom exactly? Not the M.D. who did the autopsy, or any of the news reports I've read.


'Dr. Baden provided a diagram of the entry wounds, and noted that the six shots produced numerous wounds. Some of the bullets entered and exited several times, including one that left at least five different wounds.

“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.

He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.
'

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0
 

Caligula

Maximus
He was shot twice in the head, and then the cop unloaded four more rounds into Micheal's body, which was laying on the ground because he was already SHOT IN THE HEAD, TWICE... [according to] Multiple (non-cop) eyewitnesses.

It should be no surprise to anyone that eye wittiness accounts can be notoriously inaccurate.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue One/fisher&tversky.htm

http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr06/eyewitness.aspx

Then there's this, which doesn't exactly jive with your timeline of events:

"One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said."


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html



Doesn't look like the M.D./M.E. hired by the Brown family agrees with you as to how the shooting went down. But wait, there's more:

We now also have that video I posted earlier, in which an eye witness details to another bystander how Brown ran back at the cop after he had his weapon drawn on him, just moments after the shooting:



Quotations below start @ 6:28/6:29 of YT video:

Bystander #1 How’d he get from there to there?

Bystander #2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck

{crosstalk}

#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him

{crosstalk}

#2 Then the next thing I know he coming back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –

#1. Oh, the police got his gun

#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him

{crosstalk}

#2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing

#1 The Police?

#2 The Police shot him

#1 Police?

#2 The next thing I know … I’m thinking … the dude started running … (garbled, possibly “he took it from him”).


As I said before, this is pretty compelling given how soon after the shooting that this was recorded. As you can see, LE hadnt even had a chance to cover the body yet, so this obviously took place well before any type of external influences (news media, social media, public opinion, family members, friends, Jessie Jackson, et al) were able to muddy the waters.

Because of that aspect, I'm more inclined to give this video more weight than someone who gave a rehearsed statement to CNN a few days after the fact while a lawyer sits next to them.

I suppose its possible, though, that the video above is a hoax, the (independent) autopsy is wrong, and the other "eye wittiness" which said the police shot Brown "in the back" are all correct. Besides, I'm sure no one would embellish anything to the news media in order to gain public sympathy (or for a myriad of other reasons)... so that should never be a consideration for anyone looking at this with an unbiased and critical eye. Unless the info came from an official source, of course ;)


I think we need to stop and ask ourselves if we are running head forward with our blinders on, or if we are properly analyzing all of the available information. This case is obviously not cut and dry, regardless of what public opinion may be... and that's truly my only point here.

Edit: On a side note, I feel that circulating non-vetted "information" such as "he was shot twice in the head, and then the cop unloaded four more rounds into Micheal's body", is doing way more harm than good. Now I understand legitimate reporting accidents happen, and people get reports wrong all the time... but there's a fine line between mistake and propaganda, especially if that "mistake" raises tensions which leads to more public harm. This is yet another reason why people (and I mean everyone), need to really think about things before stating them as 100% fact.
 
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RUDE BOY

Space is the Place
He was shot twice in the head, and then the cop unloaded four more rounds into Micheal's body, which was laying on the ground because he was already SHOT IN THE HEAD, TWICE.
The way they described the gunshot wound to the top of his head it would have been an Immediate kill shot as in an instantaneous body falls to ground dead death. It would most likely have be the last two shots were the head shots IMO.
 
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2clicker

Observer
And this is the official timeline of how the shots occurred according whom exactly? Not the M.D. who did the autopsy, or any of the news reports I've read.


'Dr. Baden provided a diagram of the entry wounds, and noted that the six shots produced numerous wounds. Some of the bullets entered and exited several times, including one that left at least five different wounds.

“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.

He stressed that his information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.
'

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

dr baden also said "there arent any signs of a struggle". even if MB wasnt shot in the back why did the cop draw on him to begin with? he was unarmed. be a fucking man and arrest the kid. give him a chance to learn whatever lesson the cop was trying to teach him. of which is what "get the fuck out of the street"? tackle him. taze him. subdue him... anything but kill him! im sorry but having to deal with large individuals is part of the job. if you are more likely to shoot than attempt to arrest first then you shouldnt be a police officer. unfortunately these are the standards these days in this country. cops that i know AGREE with this. cops these days are such pussies its unreal.

tear gassing and shooting (rubber bullets) at innocent protestors and members of certain media (the real reporters)... wtf?

It should be no surprise to anyone that eye wittiness accounts can be notoriously inaccurate.

the same can just as easily be said about the police. maybe even more so...?

my father is an ex STL city cop (70s-80s) and i know other cops that i speak pretty candid with. anyway, cops lie to cover their ass all the time. the cops i mention here have all told me stories of when they or their co-pigs friends have abused their power. it simply happens all the time.

young african american men are being killed at an alarming rate. i suppose its this countrys gun culture mixed with some racism...?

It's hard to see oppression if a person has never had to experience it, including myself.

exactly. so many white people i talk to act like they know how they would be conducting themselves through this if they were in this mess. its just not possible.
 

Caligula

Maximus
A struggle has nothing to do with the point I was making, although if you want to be fair the ME also said that further investigation would be required to determine if any of the superficial wounds on MBs body indicated a struggle. Regardless, this leads back to the whole "no one can say for sure" point i was trying to make. There's reasonable doubt for all involved IMO...

Which I guess brings us to your other points. I never said these aren't 2 way streets. I figured it would go without saying that people distrust what the official police line is. My point , however, is that people don't seem to be waiting for unbiased facts to come to light before condemning people and burning the city down. Rather they are siding with MB simply because "Fuck the police".
 
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Caligula

Maximus
Tackle him? Seriously? Brown was 6'4" and almost 300 lbs. If the official story is true and MB was charging at the officer, I can see that bring pretty damn intimidating.

Taze him? Like this?


Perhaps LE/military grade OC pepper spray would stop an attacker in short order?


I guess the cop should should just "subdue him" instead. I'm interested to see if you can elaborate as to how though?

Honestly I don't see a lot of people putting themselves in the cops shoes. He's a human too.
 
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Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
“It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.

True, but which is the more plausible scenario? Brown charging an officer who is pointing a gun at his head, or Brown shouting don't shoot scared shitless with his hands up and head bent in the downward position..LMAO...
 
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2clicker

Observer
Tackle him? Seriously? Brown was 6'4" and almost 300 lbs. If the official story is true and MB was charging at the officer, I can see that bring pretty damn intimidating.

Taze him? Like this?


I guess the cop should should just "subdue him" instead. I'm interested to see if you can elaborate as to how though?

Honestly I don't see a lot of people putting themselves in the cops shoes. He's a human too.

its called a billy club. if he was charging him he should have used that instead.

and yes tazing does work. not everyone can take it even if you are big. and they also have mace of which nobody can handle. and if anyone can then they are freaks of nature or on meth or something.

this guy had other options. i KNOW this to be fact.

this big guy is running at me... my only option to protect myself is to kill him... nah i dont think so. the gun should be his last option against an unarmed man. regardless of his size.

so if these other methods of defense are so useless why are the cops equipped with them? yes he should have tazed or sprayed him or just beat him until he could subdue MB. its not u reasonable to expect a cop to do this. cops are trained to do this. unfortunately the sidearm is easier and the preferred choice of cops these days.
 
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Caligula

Maximus
True, but which is the more plausible scenario? Brown charging an officer who is pointing a gun at his head, or Brown shouting don't shoot scared shitless with his hands up and head bent in the downward position..LMAO...

I'm thinking if I look up statistics comparing officers being attacked in the line of duty to officers killing suspects without cause, the math would be far in favor of the police.

Just saying.

BTW I'm sorry, but a night stick is far from an adequate defense in a situation similar to what the police propose happened. Pepper spray is very ineffective against blind rage/adrenaline/drugs/Genetic energy, tazers aren't anywhere near an adequate defense in every situation, and physics still rule the universe.

Basically, unless this cop was the size of Shaq and trained by Bruce Lee, trying to say he should have single handedly "subdued" a charging MB is wishful thinking at best.

It's nice to armchair quarterback and list all the "options" the officer had to consider in the few seconds all this happened though.
 
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Caligula,
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mestizo

Well-Known Member
Anybody here remember a cop from the LAPD shooting a 102 lb. homeless woman armed with a screwdriver? she wasn't as big as Brown, so how come the officer chose letal force on her before attempting anything else, in my opinion too many officers are trigger happy nowadays, knowing it is almost impossible to find them guilty if ever prosecuted.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jul/21/news/mn-56723
 
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