MJ and Bipolar Disorder

Does anyone here have a history of manic depressive or bipolar symptoms? And if so what are the symptoms that you have found MJ aleviates for you?
I am nearing a complete diagnosis of bipolar and am not sure where my MJ vaping will come into it. Should I quit?
I have vowed to do a medication free attempt at managing and reducing the effects of bipolar on my life, relationships and my job, but do not want to be a hypocrit by self-medicating with MJ and denying pharmaceutical drugs to combat my symptoms. I don't agree with them, and would prefer the natural remedy. I want to be normal, or at least function like a normal person.
So far MJ has come in handy on nights when I have felt burned out from working so hard, but I haven't exactly used it recreationally, theraputically, medicinally, socially or any other way of using it. Just a few times so far with no real pattern, no signs of potentially abusing or becoming addicted to it, and only positive thoughts for what it can do to potentially keep me calm for stages of my life journey.
Any input is appreciated. I don't want to make anything worse for myself and need a wide spectrum of insight before making any more moves

Not only a history, but an FC history of manic depression.

I don't know shit, so I'll just tell you how it's gone for me.

Herbs, IMO, have done me nothing but good. It almost always helps me be more creative, more calm, more silly, more accepting, more forgiving, and more forgetful - which, for me, is a good thing.

I'm dealing with the aftermath of addictions of other substances, with a still a couple hanging on, but the mighty herb has been dropping them one by one. Maybe that's not actual improvement, but... I'll take it.

Basically, herb is what keeps me mostly in line these days. But there are days when it is helpless to prevent the switch.

So maybe quitting is the right move. Who the fuck am I to say. Probably at least worth a try? But I really don't know.

Probably wise to do the opposite of whatever a Depressimistic says...

I have really only started, so I can safely say that MJ atleast is not the CAUSE of my problems.. Or any other drugs for that matter. It's all me.

If it works for you, keep workin' it
If it doesn't stop or at least switch strains.

I guess it's the nature of MJ that it can't really hurt to try. Always going to be an easier recovery/detox than a month of anti-D's.

Simple answer, thanks grokit. This thread can be closed unless someone has a medical perspective on it

I've been diagnosed with different bipolar i/ii w/w/out manic depression, depending on which doctor you ask. While I identify with some of those symptoms' descriptions, my self-diagnosis is less conventional. That's a different topic though. I think I fit the description of your post. I'm currently medicating only with MJ and my ecig

Some of my reasoning, my mantras of sorts, and how I use MJ as a tool. *I prefer "heady" highs - sativas and concentrates - because I still feel like I'm participating in myself, compared to indica and especially alcohol, which make me "clock out" or do things I have less control of. I personally enjoy that energetic zing because I'm familiar with it, and know before I toke that it's coming and need to smile before I inhale, or my problems might get worse until I smoke myself stupid to compensate. It's a sliding scale that has provided limited but reliable results for me. Not for the inexperienced in public haha.

MJ can help me calm the pace of my internal dialogue, and can help me "lighten up" a little bit if I toke with that intention. It doesn't exactly slow down my thoughts, but it does soften things up a lot. If my mood is sour enough to not care about feeling better, MJ often helps me laugh at something stupid, have a drop of fun, and remember that feeling good feels good. I seriously forget, I'd like more of that please.

(and then I start ranting)

Any weird cognitive habits I've developed over the years don't just go away. I battle those bastards everyday, but I win. Well sometimes I win, but I fight. And I wonder how easy I expect it to really be when I'm bummed I'm not normal. If I don't take an active role opting for positive over negative, I'll never relearn the habit. This black sheep inherited some nasty perfectionism. I'll never loose hope that I can learn new tricks though. I shouldn't understate that. I can reinvent my life. There I said it.

My last visit to the therapist I asked, "so after I reach all my goals, is life actually easier if I'm still trying my absolute best?" After I realized I wasn't there to make my life easier in the basic sense, I was like, fuck it I'm weird. My life will be weird. The more I say it, the more "normal" sounds ... like it's not an adventure. And there's no graduating therapy so I'm out.

It's hard to know when to stop ranting when you're already off topic, so how about now lol -- hope something I said is food for thought, cheers.

It was all from the heart and I sat down comfortably to really enjoy that post like a good book. Thanks for sharing, I feel very similarly but you put words to it which is something I have yet to do for myself in regards to my ongoing fight against the negative thoughts. Many realisations lie ahead if I maintain a positive outlook like you described and participating in myself is a beautiful way to put it. I used to think I liked hard drugs and heavily altered states of consciousness but I have enough strange thoughts that I don't particularly associate with Or understand while sober, I don't need them while high! That's why Mj sits quite well with my mind because it's subtle like makeup on an already beautiful girl; simply exentuating what is already perfect.

I'm not familiar with the effects MJ has on a bipolar person who smokes regularly, but I have experienced that introducing MJ to adults with bipolar disorder who have never used MJ can be very risky. My aunt is a lifelong stoner, but her boyfriend at the time wasn't. She introduced him to MJ, and he got higher than anyone I've ever met. Every time he'd smoke, even a little bit, he'd get to a point of hallucination.

After a few months of living with him she discovered he had bipolar disorder, and soon she found out that MJ wasn't helping at all. He started having delusions of grandeur, and MJ seemed to make him more confident in his delusional state. Since then he's had a full blown episode resulting in his hospitalization as well as some legal issues.

Who knows what role MJ played in his psychosis, but it certainly didn't improve his situation. Then again, and it must be said, everyone is different, and many people have different reactions to the same drug.

EDIT: I forgot to add, one of my good friends from childhood was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. We used to smoke together in high school, but he stopped after he kept getting weird effects (basically he'd get extreme paranoia even when at his house, in a totally safe environment). His reaction was totally different from my aunt's boyfriend's, but both seemed to get much stronger effects from MJ than anyone else I've met. He doesn't use MJ at all anymore, but his condition isn't bad enough that he needs to be on meds either. Very different circumstances compared to my aunts boyfriend, who was a totally different person without his meds.

I've been diagnosed by a pyschiatrist with a mood disorder that is some form of bipolar/adhd/anxiety disorder. All I can say is my own personal experience, and that is that vaping cannabis helps me live a normal life. I basically have two options - pharma drugs like seroquel, and all the other chems OR cannabis. I choose cannabis. I find if I focus on getting enough sunlight and time out of doors, whole natural food diet, quality sleep, and stress management (vaping, yoga, exercise, sex) and medicate regularily, I can manage and be a person I can actually live with.

Farid said:

I'm not familiar with the effects MJ has on a bipolar person who smokes regularly, but I have experienced that introducing MJ to adults with bipolar disorder who have never used MJ can be very risky. My aunt is a lifelong stoner, but her boyfriend at the time wasn't. She introduced him to MJ, and he got higher than anyone I've ever met. Every time he'd smoke, even a little bit, he'd get to a point of hallucination.

After a few months of living with him she discovered he had bipolar disorder, and soon she found out that MJ wasn't helping at all. He started having delusions of grandeur, and MJ seemed to make him more confident in his delusional state. Since then he's had a full blown episode resulting in his hospitalization as well as some legal issues.

Who knows what role MJ played in his psychosis, but it certainly didn't improve his situation. Then again, and it must be said, everyone is different, and many people have different reactions to the same drug.

EDIT: I forgot to add, one of my good friends from childhood was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. We used to smoke together in high school, but he stopped after he kept getting weird effects (basically he'd get extreme paranoia even when at his house, in a totally safe environment). His reaction was totally different from my aunt's boyfriend's, but both seemed to get much stronger effects from MJ than anyone else I've met. He doesn't use MJ at all anymore, but his condition isn't bad enough that he needs to be on meds either. Very different circumstances compared to my aunts boyfriend, who was a totally different person without his meds.

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Scary! It has been known to worsen and/or play a causative role in psychosis development. Thankfully I have had my years of heavy MJ use in the past and the only drug that touched on psychotic side effects was methamphetamine. I had schitzophtenic dreams for a week that I will never forget! That's a story for another day though ;P

biohacker said:

I've been diagnosed by a pyschiatrist with a mood disorder that is some form of bipolar/adhd/anxiety disorder. All I can say is my own personal experience, and that is that vaping cannabis helps me live a normal life. I basically have two options - pharma drugs like seroquel, and all the other chems OR cannabis. I choose cannabis. I find if I focus on getting enough sunlight and time out of doors, whole natural food diet, quality sleep, and stress management (vaping, yoga, exercise, sex) and medicate regularily, I can manage and be a person I can actually live with.

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Awesome ! I can relate to that minus the REGULAR Mj use and yoga practice.

How does a psychiatrist diagnose a person bipolar? Since there are no lab test.

I did a series of tests and many multiple hour length interviews.... how else is one diagnosed?

I don't know, that is why I'm asking.
I visited this museum in Hollywood called Psychiatry: An Industry of Death, and even though I disagree with some of the statements and beliefs, they raise really good questions about this whole industry. They believe Psychiatry pretty much want to drug the whole population, and will find something wrong in all of us, and because there are no blood test they can make up a diagnosis.

^ Sounds like a scientology establishment.

mestizo said:

How does a psychiatrist diagnose a person bipolar? Since there are no lab test.

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Smartass answer: First he looks in the mirror, then he decides if he's in the mood

Dx'ed with Bipolar currently. Cannabis has been a literal life saver since I started using it therapeutically (as opposed to the social recreational use of my teens).

Going through some things at th moment, so I can't elaborate now, but will once I come out the other side.

mestizo said:

I don't know, that is why I'm asking.
I visited this museum in Hollywood called Psychiatry: An Industry of Death, and even though I disagree with some of the statements and beliefs, they raise really good questions about this whole industry. They believe Psychiatry pretty much want to drug the whole population, and will find something wrong in all of us, and because there are no blood test they can make up a diagnosis.

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I can see merit to that....it's like nearly everyone can fit in certain categories and it sometimes seems like it's "overthinking" things, however I certainly can see that I am very different from the rest of the population, and if I knew about my mental illness long before, I would have saved myself alot of misery in the past. Alot.

We all share traits (sometimes many traits) with disorders and ailments of the mind and body, but I am assuming as soon as a psychiatrist/ologist can pinpoint that you tick all the boxes for one illness over another they can be fairly sure that it's the label for you. I feel like a diagnosis is going to finally be useful to me because I am in the mindframe to tackle it head on and learn techniques and properly adapt given the new knowledge that will come with research. In the past it would have just bummed me out and made me analyse myself even more but there comes a time where you just want to get shit sorted out and whatever I am diagnosed with I will do my best to take it on board positively and kindly reject any pharmaceuticals..

So you're going for psychotherapy rather than pharmacology? How novel

grokit said:

So you're going for psychotherapy rather than pharmacology? How novel

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I hope you mean noble
I have had bad experience with anti-depressants in the past. I don't even react well to panadol unfortunately

Apologies for walls of text, but sharing this type of experience is too fun. My will to rant is huge but I promise to try and keep it relevant and to avoid a certain preachy tone I'm guilty of when I get going in bipolar fashion.

MJ can intensify my mania, and I have what's described as "mixed-episodes" - experiencing both poles either simultaneously or in rapid succession. A good heady buzz helps me get locked in sort of, determined largely by my emotional state. The more centered it is, the longer the stability lasts. If I get all pumped to watch anime and dab it up, I'm irritable in an hour EVERYTIME. Sometimes its unpleasantly intense (paranoia/nervousness) if I'm especially sleep deprived, exhausted, haven't eaten all day, or some other acute stress factor (why I don't toke at work).

*Some* of my reasoning about diagnosis is parallel to the definition of a psychological disease - if it's in the way living a healthy life, call it a disorder. If the disorder doesn't improve despite a person's honest attempts to help themselves, call it a disease. Having names/designations for things is *supposed* to help determine some systemic approach. (Opinions on that are fuel for another interesting discussion.) W/E the case, getting help is necessary because our view of things is limited to one (inevitably biased) view... sounds obvious but we're social and need to communicate with friends or a professional.

In the most twisted of moments, saying whats going on out loud can be a life saver. After uttering it, I observe whether it rings true or not.

"This feeling fucking blows ass." --- wait --- "Yep, fuck this feeling." I go simple when its bad. If you're dark, be direct or you'll get twisted before the sentence is over.

About separating thoughts and feelings... the degree to which I do it may very well be making me 'crazier.' It's kinda fun most of the time, but a short jump to feeling disconnected. Again, we need people despite how awkward it can be at times. I get weird fast if I live a super-loner lifestyle a few months, and then it's even more difficult to return to the living for a hundred compounded reasons. Every one is different.

(The pattern of symptoms clinically known as) Bipolar Disorder makes me vulnerable to the throes of life, and I wouldn't trade that sensitivity for anything. The trade off is I have to actively manage myself, or I become a victim. It sucks that the pharmaceutical industry is selling escape branded as a cure for sadness, instead of developing drugs for temporary use to help patients cope with symptoms while they help themselves through therapy. End rant.

xRUFUSx said:

(The pattern of symptoms clinically known as) Bipolar Disorder makes me vulnerable to the throes of life, and I wouldn't trade that sensitivity for anything. The trade off is I have to actively manage myself, or I become a victim. It sucks that the pharmaceutical industry is selling escape branded as a cure for sadness, instead of developing drugs for temporary use to help patients cope with symptoms while they help themselves through therapy. End rant.

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It's amazing how someones thoughts on a topic can change everything... Some things seem so 'set in stone' but acceptance is the key to living your life to the fullest. Now that I think of it like that, I would also not trade who I am or how I think for anything! Let it be! \
may your next hit from the vape be pure and potent sir

[NB: I'm a psychologist but the thoughts I'm posting here are not clinical advice, just my own experience in working with clients who have used MJ and have bipolar disorder or other mood disorder.]

I don't think that there's any direct correlation between MJ use and either improvement or worsening of symptoms. When we're talking about bipolar disorder (it was previously called "manic depression"), the therapeutic intervention is to do what's possible to minimize the duration and intensity of an episode, whether we're talking about depressive or manic.

There are a lot of things that can precipitate a manic episode and/or make it more intense. Things like falling out of routine, sleep disturbance, excessive drug use, eating irregularities, etc. As such, MJ could exacerbate a manic episode or contribute to the onset of one.

At the same time, MJ use doesn't necessarily mean that any of those things happen. Moderate use won't cause problems. But if it starts getting in the way of a regular life routine, it can. Obviously, this is no different from anything else that can be taken to an extreme.

The other side of the coin is that MJ use can contribute and enhance the quality of one's life so it could have an anti-depressant effect. You might find that you're more social, energized and engaged in life. Used effectively, it could be a great reinforcer to making sure that you're getting your shit done, etc. It could help slow you down enough that a manic episode passes without too much collateral damage, as it were.

My clients who use MJ regularly and also have a mood disorder don't seem to be affected in either direct, to be honest. I highly recommend against using it to numb emotions, but the same goes for any activity or substance. Emotions need to be dealt with effectively and not avoided.

All of this is to say that MJ is not a treatment for bipolar disorder but it won't necessarily hurt it, either. Nothing is a good substitute for regular scheduling and routine. If MJ helps you with that, great. It should help overall. If MJ gets in the way of that, then you're making things worse.

I will also say that you need to know what type of MJ you're using. Obviously there are different psychoactive effects from different strains. Do your research and be an educated consumer. Don't just assume that any old MJ will help/hurt. There's a lot of variability. Unfortunately, the research on the effects of different strains is scant so "me-search" is all we've got for now.

vape4doc said:

[NB: I'm a psychologist but the thoughts I'm posting here are not clinical advice, just my own experience in working with clients who have used MJ and have bipolar disorder or other mood disorder.]

I don't think that there's any direct correlation between MJ use and either improvement or worsening of symptoms. When we're talking about bipolar disorder (it was previously called "manic depression"), the therapeutic intervention is to do what's possible to minimize the duration and intensity of an episode, whether we're talking about depressive or manic.

There are a lot of things that can precipitate a manic episode and/or make it more intense. Things like falling out of routine, sleep disturbance, excessive drug use, eating irregularities, etc. As such, MJ could exacerbate a manic episode or contribute to the onset of one.

At the same time, MJ use doesn't necessarily mean that any of those things happen. Moderate use won't cause problems. But if it starts getting in the way of a regular life routine, it can. Obviously, this is no different from anything else that can be taken to an extreme.

The other side of the coin is that MJ use can contribute and enhance the quality of one's life so it could have an anti-depressant effect. You might find that you're more social, energized and engaged in life. Used effectively, it could be a great reinforcer to making sure that you're getting your shit done, etc. It could help slow you down enough that a manic episode passes without too much collateral damage, as it were.

My clients who use MJ regularly and also have a mood disorder don't seem to be affected in either direct, to be honest. I highly recommend against using it to numb emotions, but the same goes for any activity or substance. Emotions need to be dealt with effectively and not avoided.

All of this is to say that MJ is not a treatment for bipolar disorder but it won't necessarily hurt it, either. Nothing is a good substitute for regular scheduling and routine. If MJ helps you with that, great. It should help overall. If MJ gets in the way of that, then you're making things worse.

I will also say that you need to know what type of MJ you're using. Obviously there are different psychoactive effects from different strains. Do your research and be an educated consumer. Don't just assume that any old MJ will help/hurt. There's a lot of variability. Unfortunately, the research on the effects of different strains is scant so "me-search" is all we've got for now.

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Thank you. I look forward to other posts you hopefully make here with that knowledge & expertise!

I've found that it helps both the intensity and duration of my swings. It won't let me go too manic, and won't let me go too low. Without it, I go through the full swing (rapid cycling, mixed included).

Magic9 said:

I've found that it helps both the intensity and duration of my swings. It won't let me go too manic, and won't let me go too low. Without it, I go through the full swing (rapid cycling, mixed included).

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I'm glad to hear that it helps. Do you know what strains work best? Dosage and frequency? Just trying to gather some data.