the Michael Brown thread

Yeah it's all hugs and kisses now


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...hugs-and-kisses-replace-tear-gas-in-ferguson/

grokit said:

Yeah it's all hugs and kisses now

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...hugs-and-kisses-replace-tear-gas-in-ferguson/

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thats because those guys are the highway patrol. the ones who showed up w/out the military presence and some even marched in the protests.

but yeah... at least its not more dead people eh?

the link i posted with the eyewitness interview pretty much seals the deal for me. 3 dif eyewitnesses all say the same thing happened. the police beg to differ but dont go into details.

I hope the feds are all over the autopsy, that's where the truth should reveal itself.

grokit said:

Yeah it's all hugs and kisses now

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...hugs-and-kisses-replace-tear-gas-in-ferguson/

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You rather have more unnecessary violence? I find this picture heartwarming, and a relief.

But like 2clicker pointed out, those officers are not the same ones that were using unnecessary force in the first place. You can't just assume all cops are scum, or else you have given them have no choice and will all become scum.

Hugs and kisses was the title of the article, the healing (but not the accountability) has begun

grokit said:

I hope the feds are all over the autopsy, that's where the truth should reveal itself.

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unfortunately the feds are the last motherfuckers i would believe. worse than the local police IMO.

did you watch the video in the link i posted earlier? of the eye witness explaining what she saw? that shit sealed the deal for me. why would she be lying? there are two other eye witnesses that are both telling the same story. the police version is much different. and from my experience with police through my life so far, i am much more willing to believe the eye witnesses. ive seen cops lie and do such ignorant shit. having said that there are some really great cops out there that work with integrity. problem is that they are few and far between these days.

i mean this is america. chief sitting bull is rolling over in his fucking grave because of what is happening in HIS country.

im sad now

He really wanted that box of Phillies Blunts.

http://news.yahoo.com/turmoil-tear-gas-way-hope-ferguson-053336976.html

I saw that. I also saw all the people saying why it didn't matter. The cop didn't know he was a suspect. The Brown guy still wasn't armed in either case. It was only shoplifting.

All valid points, to be sure. Of course, it also makes you wonder whats going on in Michael's head as he is confronted by a cop shortly after this incident. Maybe he was acting a tad off of baseline due to nerves? One has to admit, its plausible.

I mean, how many of you living in a non MJ friendly state would act a bit "off" if you were pulled over on the way back from buying a bunch of weed? Even if the cop only pulled you over for a broken tail light, it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to envision that routine traffic stop turning into something way more serious.

In either case, it was pretty smart of the police to release that in conjunction with the other info. That was a win for them any way you look at it.

Caligula said:

I saw that. I also saw all the people saying why it didn't matter. The cop didn't know he was a suspect. The Brown guy still wasn't armed in either case. It was only shoplifting.

All valid points, to be sure. Of course, it also makes you wonder whats going on in Michael's head as he is confronted by a cop shortly after this incident. Maybe he was acting a tad off of baseline due to nerves? One has to admit, its plausible.

I mean, how many of you living in a non MJ friendly state would act a bit "off" if you were pulled over on the way back from buying a bunch of weed? Even if the cop only pulled you over for a broken tail light, it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to envision that routine traffic stop turning into something way more serious.

In either case, it was pretty smart of the police to release that in conjunction with the other info. That was a win for them any way you look at it.

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this whole situation has nothing to do with him shoplifting. the chief of ferg police already released that the cop was not even aware of the shoplifting incident. that video shows an 18 y/old kid trying to be cool. nothing more. kids all over the place make bad decisions like this all the time. hell i did that shit when i was young. and they called it a "strong arm robbery"... please. they are just trying to redirect the attention to this and the rioting (of which happened again last night) and off the fact that he was killed by excessive force.

again it comes back to the eyewitness video for me. he was grabbed through the window of the car with the cop yelling i will shoot you. a shot is fired, MB struggles to get away from the car (his hands never reached for the cops gun), he gets away, turns and runs, the cop gets out and chases after him shooting, first shot hits MB, MBs body jerks from being hit, MB turns around with his hands in the air saying "dont shoot", the cop continues to fire anywhere from 5-7 more shots into MB and he falls to the ground dead. that is what happened and that is what we must focus on.

the rioting and looting is a result of being shit on by police/white people for so long. it builds up and erupts. its horrible for sure, but w/out being in those shoes i cannot tell you how i would conduct myself.

It sucks he was Killed.

But If the Guy wasn't walking down the middle of the street where he didn't belong he wouldn't have been confronted by the cops inorder to be shot in the first place.

I mean really you commit a crime then get belligerent with an armed cop when he's only tellin' you not to walk down the middle of a fucking street, when there are sidewalks for walking and the streets are for vehicles.

Sorry to sound indifferent, but why do Black people/kids walk in the middle of the street? I mean really around where i live it seems common practice to hang out on the streets and not sidewalks and it is rare that you see any other racial group here doing this, Only African American.

Whats Up With That ? an old odd white guy wants to know for real. I mean why always walk where cars belong ?

Come to my town. The black population is basically non-existent. Rich, white, suburban kids do whatever the fuck they want too, including walking in the middle of the street. None of them get shot for it, or even harassed about it. I'm sure they steal blunts as well.

Jay walking isn't a capital offense the last time I checked.

RUDE BOY said:

It sucks he was Killed.

But If the Guy wasn't walking down the middle of the street where he didn't belong he wouldn't have been confronted by the cops inorder to be shot in the first place.

I mean really you commit a crime then get belligerent with an armed cop when he's only tellin' you not to walk down the middle of a fucking street, when there are sidewalks for walking and the streets are for vehicles.

Sorry to sound indifferent, but why do Black people/kids walk in the middle of the street? I mean really around where i live it seems common practice to hang out on the streets and not sidewalks and it is rare that you see any other racial group here doing this, Only African American.

Whats Up With That ? an old odd white guy wants to know for real. I mean why always walk where cars belong ?

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you gotta be kidding me. i see people of all races walking in the street. the crime he comitted has nothing to do with his death. being young and black does. that cop just isnt going to do what he did to a white kid. i can almost promise that. cop is white, does not like african americans, and MB is dead. end of story.

the MB story overshadows another young aftican american man shot and killed in a wal mart in ohio on 8/6. he was in the toy section carrying a toy gun that wal mart had right there on the shelf. a white couple saw him and called the cops saying he is waiving it around and "clicking" it. this kid has the toy gun in his hand, and has his phone up to his ear with his other hand, on the phone with his mother of whom heard the entire thing go down. the cops yell at him to drop the gun, he tells them its not real and the cops procede to shoot him. this would not happened if he was white. it really is that simple. heres the story.

http://theurbandaily.com/2014/08/09/john-crawford-walmart-shooting-ohio/

if this shit does not stop neither will looting.

aesthyrian said:

Come to my town. The black population is basically non-existent. Rich, white, suburban kids do whatever the fuck they want too, including walking in the middle of the street. None of them get shot for it, or even harassed about it. I'm sure they steal blunts as well.

Jay walking isn't a capital offense the last time I checked.

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No shouldn't even be a fine imo But in the end it is an offense and that may very well draw a cops attention your way when if you were walkin' or standing on one of the four foot wide sidewalks on either side where there are no cars and, the speed limit isn't 45mph they most likely won't notice you.

I used to live in the city in a rather depressed low income mainly black neighborhood now I'm in an upper-middle class neighborhood, still the same group(not white) of people hanging out where I'm supposed to be driving and they are not all teenage kids. But Kids up into their 30s.

I can only share my own life experience and the observations I make are all my own.

(also am White but have a half dozen Black nephews and nieces and 2 black great nephews ranging in age from 6-26 and spending time with them along with hanging with their parents and grandparents I've never seen them inclined to walk in the street so i'm not sayin' it's genetics or anything like that, seems an odd learned behavior to me)

2clicker said:

this whole situation has nothing to do with him shoplifting. the chief of ferg police already released that the cop was not even aware of the shoplifting incident.

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I already touched on that point. It doesn't matter if the officer knew MB was a suspect or not. My point was that it's possible that Brown's state of mind (and thus his actions) were influenced by the fact that he literally just committed a crime and was being confronted by law enforcement.

Sure the cop didn't know about the store robbery, but did MB know that? I doubt it.

that video shows an 18 y/old kid trying to be cool. nothing more. kids all over the place make bad decisions like this all the time.

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Why is it only possible for him to "try and act cool" in front of his friends by shop lifting and intimidating the shop keeper? Could one not also use that same logic to assume that he might have disobeyed the police to "act cool" in front of his friend as well? I mean, kids all over the place make bad decisions all the time. Right?

They called it a "strong arm robbery"... please.

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That's exactly what it was. Case in point, my brother had two unarmed but very large guys come up to him after a Chargers football game and demanded his iphone and wallet. He gave it up without incident (hell, they didn't even push him), and reported to the cops right after. Wanna guess what went on the police report as the type of crime? Yup. Strong arm robbery.

They found the iPhone in a dumpster using gps, but never found the guys or his wallet. I can tell you though, that my brother is all of about 135 lbs and he was scared shitless when it happened. But maybe the two dudes were just trying to act cool? I'm sure knowing that would make him feel better about the situation.

again it comes back to the eyewitness video for me. he was grabbed through the window of the car with the cop yelling i will shoot you. a shot is fired, MB struggles to get away from the car (his hands never reached for the cops gun), he gets away, turns and runs, the cop gets out and chases after him shooting, first shot hits MB, MBs body jerks from being hit, MB turns around with his hands in the air saying "dont shoot", the cop continues to fire anywhere from 5-7 more shots into MB and he falls to the ground dead. that is what happened and that is what we must focus on.

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If I were in your place, I would probably wait for all the evidence before jumping to such conclusions. It's basically impossible to take a handful of reports and say for sure "that is what happened". Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. Who's to say those "eye witness accounts" are 100% factual or even truthful? No one here can say that for sure.

My point is that it's impossible for me (and thus basically anyone else not intimately involved in this case) to know "that's what happened" simply based off of some news interviews and gut feeling.

the rioting and looting is a result of being shit on by police/white people for so long. it builds up and erupts. its horrible for sure, but w/out being in those shoes i cannot tell you how i would conduct myself.

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I can tell you that my first thought wouldn't be "Hey, let's break into that store, steal cigarettes then burn it down!"

Having protests and taking to the streets is one thing (something that i support and encourage), but when you start looting and burning innocent people's livelihoods, you lose any sort of sympathies on my part.

Good points, also consider that he may have been trying to martyr himself for what he considered to be a lost cause in his neck of the woods, considering the ongoing racial dynamic in ferguson.

But it's still important to remember that when he was shot he was retreating, unarmed, with his hands in the air, by an officer of the law that had no idea about the earlier shoplifting incident.

What was really sad in the aftermath was video footage of people looting a Dry Cleaners, Like somehow stealing their neighbors clothing gets back at the 'man'.

2clicker said:

...the MB story overshadows another young aftican american man shot and killed in a wal mart in ohio on 8/6. he was in the toy section carrying a toy gun that wal mart had right there on the shelf. a white couple saw him and called the cops saying he is waiving it around and "clicking" it. this kid has the toy gun in his hand, and has his phone up to his ear with his other hand, on the phone with his mother of whom heard the entire thing go down. the cops yell at him to drop the gun, he tells them its not real and the cops procede to shoot him. this would not happened if he was white. it really is that simple. heres the story.


http://theurbandaily.com/2014/08/09/john-crawford-walmart-shooting-ohio/


if this shit does not stop neither will looting.

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I'm pretty sure the knee jerk reaction by LE there has more to do with the massive amount of public shootings in recent years than it does with race. Remember that 13 year old Mexican kid that was shot by police for carrying an airsoft AK47 down the street? Same thing. People bitched that the gun wasn't real, the kid was only 13, and that it only happened because he was a minority. Sound familiar?

That's all well and good until you can step back and see how the evidence played out (hindsight is a luxury we have here).

Let me ask you... if you're a cop and you see someone carrying this... what do you do? I'll let you guess which one of the two is the real AK47 and which one the 13 year old didn't drop immediately when instructed.




In any case, I'd be willing to bet anyone of any race would have ended up dead in that situation.

My point is that you can't say the police are always in the wrong simply based on personal opinion and emotion. These are multifaceted situations and as such it's very rare for them to be cut and dry like so many here are trying to make it out to be.

IMO taking sides and jumping to conclusions at this point is premature at best.

Maybe they should cancel Halloween bc all the GI Joes, Cowboys, Police Officer, etc etc are now in danger! I fear this thread is headed for the ABV...

Left one is clearly fake.

Been Vapin said:

Left one is clearly fake.

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Nope thats the real one.

Edit; Nope I'm wrong ! sorry for doubting you @Been Vapin

What does it matter if you can't tell it's real or not?!? When did preventative measure/care, turn into shoot first figure out the details later?

SSVUN~YAH said:

Maybe they should cancel Halloween bc all the GI Joes, Cowboys, Police Officer, etc etc are now in danger! I fear this thread is headed for the ABV...

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I probably won't let my child have a costume that incorporates realistic looking firearms. Sad, but so is the fact that the TSA threw away my shaving cream. Thanks Bin Laden!

Been Vapin said:

Left one is clearly fake.

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Interesting reply. Can you make that call when you're 100' away, in an uncontrolled real-life environment, and have the possibility of death hanging over your head?

Kind of kicks things up from easy to expert mode real quick.

SSVUN~YAH said:

What does it matter if you can't tell it's real or not?!? When did preventative measure/care, turn into shoot first figure out the details later?

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Since the dawn of time? Pretty sure someone having a (perceived) firearm in their hand while not listening to commands to drop it have always resulted in negative consequences for all parties involved.

The preventative measure should have been the common sense needed not to walk around with a fake gun and/or to drop it when told by LE.

Sadly, once it's at that point, there's no reason for the police to assume you have a "toy" and have every reason to treat you like you have a deadly weapon.

Investigator Lance Badger from the Santa Rosa police department shows the toy replica gun 13-year-old Andy Lopez ...

SSVUN~YAH said:

Maybe they should cancel Halloween bc all the GI Joes, Cowboys, Police Officer, etc etc are now in danger! I fear this thread is headed for the ABV...

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I think this thread is actually starting to head in the right direction. As a member of the black community I think we're stating to have the conversation that really needs to be had.

The problem is every time someone starts that conversation they're called a racist.

Edit*

Or given backlash similar to how RUDE BOY was just treated.

*Edit*

SSVUN~YAH said:

What does it matter if you can't tell it's real or not?!? When did preventative measure/care, turn into shoot first figure out the details later?

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I thought the victim was told to drop the perceived firearm but didn't respond.

Not saying it was a justified shooting, but Police Officers have a very difficult and dangerous job. Most of them have families to go home to as well.

Caligula said:

I probably won't let my child have a costume that incorporates realistic looking firearms. Sad, but so is the fact that the TSA threw away my shaving cream. Thanks Bin Laden!



Interesting reply. Can you make that call when you're 100' away, in an uncontrolled real-life environment, and have the possibility of death hanging over your head?

Kind of kicks things up from easy to expert mode real quick.



Since the dawn of time? Pretty sure someone having a firearm in their hand while not listening to commands to drop it have always resulted in negative consequences for all parties involved.

The preventative measure should have been the common sense needed not to walk around with a fake gun and/or to drop it when told by LE. Sadly, once it's at that point there's no reason for the police to assume you have a TOY and have ever reason to treat you like you can kill any of them at any point in time.

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I have no idea about your story. I got kid with toy gun gets shot and killed bc he didn't drop said gun. I'm thinking wtf were people being shot around there? What's the threat? You sound like you are on team chaos IMO, alas I don't know the story or where your point of view is coming from...

Edit- didn't know guns were around way back then...