063_XOBX
Ganjapreneur
Depends on storage. Probably indefinitely in a freezer but I haven't noticed much (if any) degradation in crumble that I had for a couple months in a nonstick container at room temperature.
Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A
- Thread starter FlyingLow
- Start date
StickyShisha2
Well-Known Member
i have heard that light, especially UV light, causes degradation fastest
Caligula
Maximus
Really depends on how stable the concentrate is to begin with and how its stored. If its a super well made absolute, and its stored in a light proof and air/moisture tight container id say it could last months if not years. Prime Extractions (considered one of the best in Cali) just posted up some 6 month old shatter on their Instagram feed which they took out of storage. They claimed it was as good as the day it went in.
BTW; its heat, air and UV light which cause the most damage to the actives in the oil.
...On this note, Ive not taken to storing my shatter inside parchment paper which is then sealed in a large "Satchmo" Jyar, which then goes in a Perlican case. Should last a while as long as it doesn't get too hot.
I have some mid grade quality BHO that is about 4 months old, stored in a safe, in my room which reaches 100+ F degrees at times. The strength seems to have slightly suffered, and some of the wax has started the process of decarboxylation, one of the more terpy strains seems to have suffered the most, and on it's way to being a "poopy" consistency. It's still good though. It's just a reminder to use it up soon.
I also had some high quality nectar in the same safe, and the strength hasn't seemed to suffer, but got darker in color (although clarity remained), much like the lower grade wax. If you can keep it some place away from light, heat, moisture, and air, your concentrate should be good for a long time, as long as it's a good concentrate, and it's been handled properly, etc.
I also had some high quality nectar in the same safe, and the strength hasn't seemed to suffer, but got darker in color (although clarity remained), much like the lower grade wax. If you can keep it some place away from light, heat, moisture, and air, your concentrate should be good for a long time, as long as it's a good concentrate, and it's been handled properly, etc.
NickDlow
Log Hog
Yes it's crumbly and it sticks together when I squeeze but not to me. The temp varies cuz of my skillet but I tried to keep it around 110f but there is a very good chance it was higher it was unattended for a bit. Yes I use butane and a vac chamber. What is the most potent form of bho? First time I've ever had this never mind making it lol it tastes n smells good how does it look? Like I said I've never had bho in this form yet.
hishighness
Well-Known Member
There is no "most potent form" of wax. Shatter is preferred since it requires the least amount of heating/fucking with it (ie: less opportunity to lose terps, THC, etc.) but that does not at all mean that any random shatter is "more potent" than any random honeycomb. All consistencies can be made well and it is just up to personal preference as to what an individual likes.
I believe your type of wax would be considered "budder." How long did you purge for?
I believe your type of wax would be considered "budder." How long did you purge for?
NickDlow
Log Hog
Well like 4 or 5 hrs with heat n I had to leave n go to last work n left it on for a bit n had someone shut off the heat n it prob stayed in the vac chamber under pressure for about another 6 hrs or so till I came home n opened it. I like it, it's yummy lol the my second time doing this so I'm pleased.
How can if get a more accurate/constant heat? Also is the temp of the oil the same with the lid off as the lid on under pressure?
How can if get a more accurate/constant heat? Also is the temp of the oil the same with the lid off as the lid on under pressure?
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Pretty good results for a beginner! As long as you are enjoying it, that is most important.
As far as temperatures, initially while there is still liquid butane in the dish I do 95F. For my vac temp I use 100F at the beginning with full vac. After a couple of hours I raise the temp to 105F and lower the vac pressure to 20"Hg. Usually I don't let the purge temp go above 115F. For temperature control, it think most are using the NuWave induction cooktop. (Can be had for $99). I use a BBQ Guru Digi-Q and a Power Raptor to control my electric skillet. (Something I already had for cooking in my smoker >$300).
NickDlow
Log Hog
Thanks I am enjoying this a lot. Making it is just as enjoyable as smoking it or vaping in my case. Well I just purchased a scientific hot plate. Has a digital temp display, select in increments of 5 degrees (celcius). So 35c = 95f, 40c = 104f, and 45c = 113f. So if this thing is as accurate as it says and can hold a constant temp like it say that should be good right? Also the 95f, is that the temp of the water itself or the oil temp in the water bath?
That's the temp of the water. My setup has 2 temperature probes. I tried placing the second one inside the chamber and put on the lid. I did not pull vacuum. The temperature was the same on the probe inside and in the water after a few minutes.
NickDlow
Log Hog
So the temp does not change in the chamber under pressure. Why do u lower ur pressure n change ur temp what does that do for it?
Quetzalcoatl
DEADY GUERRERO/DIRT COBAIN/GEORGE KUSH
In my experience the cloudiness you see in certain parts of slabs of oil is the plant waxes. If the people extracting really know what's up, they will run the oil through a closed-loop system, then use a Buchner filter and dry ice to remove the waxes (then through a lab filter), then vac purge well. I've never seen oil treated this way to have any sort of cloudiness to it, whereas less refined "artists" have made this cloudier oil. It could also be that the oil is absorbing moisture/has some moisture in it and is starting to budder, which is really just oxidation of the cannabinoids/terpenes and changes the form of it. Budders tend to be more fragrant but also lose the terpenes faster.Glad I found this thread! Was recently in Amsterdam and met a few 'dab monsters' from the states.
I demonstrated a Maud-Dib to them and they kind of laughed it off as a toy. I got the feeling these guys just liked playing with blowtorches and the spectacle of dabbing, more than getting high.
Side rant: TBH these guys were pretty arrogant, and after a few sessions I got tired of their bullshit. They acted like they knew best about everything weed-related, and they were "educating" Amsterdam. Yet they couldn't answer any of my questions about concentrates. Every question was met with 'there are different extraction processes, its very complicated dude' or something along those lines
Side rant finished! Now I give these same questions to some real experts, as I know we have in abundance on FC.
- Why are some concentrates cloudy and some clear? Are the clear concentrates more 'pure', ie. less plant material? Or is this related to the solvent used?
- I noticed the cloudy concentrates have a sweeter flavor (for me). Is this because they are less 'worked', leaving more flavanoids intact?
- Around 6 months ago, there was a controversial discovery about traces of machine oil in ALL butane (even the 'safe' stuff). Apparently the cans themselves need lubrication for the nozzle mechanism. So unless your concentrate producer has access to industrial/scientific-grade butane, you're inhaling burned machine oil every single time you dab. My question is, what is the aftermath of this discovery? Are people now using better quality butane, or was this issue swept under the rug as I suspect? Does vacuum purging remove machine oil? I have my doubts, I don't see how a vacuum could seperate 2 kinds of oil (machine oil and cannabis oil)
- Is butane the most commonly used solvent these days? Or maybe split 50/50 butane/isopropyl?
- What do people generally mean when they say 'Isolator', 'Ice', 'Isohash' etc? Are they talking about isopropyl extraction? Or the old-school ice/water bag process? There seems to be a lot of confusion/overlap with naming...
Thats it for now, I may think of more unanswered questions!
The aftermath of that discovery was discussed thoroughly by Grey Wolf on skunkpharmresearch with lab tests and stuff. The tl;dr is the exposure limits are mostly in the parts per billions/trillions, so not enough to worry about. That being said, I have access to CO2 oil which I prefer. I won't pass up well-made hash oil, since there are people using n-tane not from a nozzle bottle...
Yes butane is the most common solvent by far. I don't think I've ever seen ISO/ethanol hash oil in dispensaries. All my exposures to it were from the internet leading me to make my own ISO hash. I've seen some people here mention getting propane hash oil.
The only times I've ever seen "Isolator" is online, from Amsterdam. I looked it up again to confirm that it's a method of using ice and water to make high quality bubble hash. The stuff I've heard be called "ice wax" here is super-refined ice and water hash. The stuff is so refined it's dabbable on a nail. The pluses of this stuff are that you don't really use a solvent since the trichomes don't dissolve in the water, but it carries them, so you don't need to purge, just let the stuff dry out. You also don't have to worry about temperatures damaging anything since it's cold water. Just gotta make sure you use clean water and ice, I've seen people post pictures of their freezers with ice cube trays of ultra-refined water.
lowering atmospheric pressure causes the butane to boil inside the oil turning it into a low temp vapor while the oil stays relitvly liquid...
we warm the oil to make it viscous thus allowing trapped solvent to dissipate...
the fun thingvis that as we lower atmospheric pressure we also lower the boiling points of all the cannabinoids in to oil. so maintaining the lowest posible temp to enduce a viscous state is desired for maximum potency retention.
you can turn wax back into a shatter or a bendy shatter (which meand its a touch decarboxolated, not a bad thing necessarily) with additional heat... say the 150°F area. I have used this trick many timed becuase even wirh a vac I find wax to be often lacking in purge and thevreason itvis in a wax state is because itvis unfinished.
earl and shatter being the IMO the most likely to be completely purged.
shatter snaps and errl is decarbed so it wont wax.
peace.
we warm the oil to make it viscous thus allowing trapped solvent to dissipate...
the fun thingvis that as we lower atmospheric pressure we also lower the boiling points of all the cannabinoids in to oil. so maintaining the lowest posible temp to enduce a viscous state is desired for maximum potency retention.
you can turn wax back into a shatter or a bendy shatter (which meand its a touch decarboxolated, not a bad thing necessarily) with additional heat... say the 150°F area. I have used this trick many timed becuase even wirh a vac I find wax to be often lacking in purge and thevreason itvis in a wax state is because itvis unfinished.
earl and shatter being the IMO the most likely to be completely purged.
shatter snaps and errl is decarbed so it wont wax.
peace.
thc-a will be most preserved bu using sub 115°F temps at the heating surface... hard to do on a griddle which fluctuates between say 115 and 150 when temp cycling.... I use induction to heat... very precise.
you can see fog form in the oil at 120°F atmosphere pulled to -25hg where as perfect shatter at 110°f for a longer duration will never show cloudyness.
proper low temp never produce wax unless unfinish purging. you might see some cloudyness in your shatter... but low temps should prevent waxing... unless you want wax... then what you should do is purge the muffin several times with low heat 100°f if possible until totally purged... then bump the heat to 130°f and whip the oil while its warm to mix air in. then allow it to dry out under low vacuum say around -20hg.
just until there are no bubbles and its clear.
I hate stoner terminology... its shatter is just a discription of its phase state really... its an oleoresin or a concrete.
anyway... yes since you want thst shatter consistency I will suggest with you try the flip technique.
.place slab in heated chamber
.allow slab to warm
.pull vacuum
.fiddle with valves a bit
.let set under vacuum a bit
. release vacuum and remove slab
.peal and flip it
.repeate until clear.
peace.
I highly recomend getting an induction cooktop. I picked one up at walmart for 99 bucks.
"my" vacuum chamber fits in the free skillet that came with mine... but the stainless steel vacuum chamber that I got from best value vacs works on it as well... you can also buy an induction interface online which will allow you to use other types of pans and such.. even pyrex...
if you have a stainless steel chamber it would work on induction. bedt way to tell is slap a magnet on the chamber if its metal... if it sticks good it might work...
they basically wont work with alloys just SS or induction ready cookwear.
my chamber bottom sits just above the skillet and ambient surface temp with the skillet set for 100 is aprox 95-98°F.
what size?