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Jahannum

(。´∀`)ノ
So would you use fake piss? Or just quit for a month until you test clean?

I would simply fail the test. The employer would then fire me if he did not want someone that uses cannabis. My current employer does not care if I use cannabis, and would not test me anyways. But if he wanted to, I would not be against it, it is a business, and his, not mine.
 
Jahannum,

Crumpet

Well-Known Member
I would simply fail the test. The employer would then fire me if he did not want someone that uses cannabis. My current employer does not care if I use cannabis, and would not test me anyways. But if he wanted to, I would not be against it, it is a business, and his, not mine.

Why would you be agreeable to this? It's another form of discrimination. There hasn't been a huge public outcry over these tests because there's so much misinformation still floating around out there. Once more places legalize, you can bet that workplace drug tests are going to become a greater public issue.

I will concede that there are some cases where such testing could be relevant. However by and large, there's no legitimate reason for them - unless you consider arbitrarily firing people for simple marijuana use a legitimate reason (hint: it isn't).
 
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Jahannum

(。´∀`)ノ
Why would you be agreeable to this? It's another form of discrimination.

I am in favor of business owners deciding their own policy, if they do not want someone that uses cannabis to work for them, that is their decision, to be against that would only be my personal bias. To call drug screens discrimination is a huge, huge leap. Cannabis does alter the way your brain functions to some degree, even up to 24 hours after use.

But once again it all comes down to each individual employer, mine does not care if I use cannabis or even test positive for it, but if he did, then there is nothing wrong with that. It is "his" business, not mine, so it is his call what kind of people work for him.
 
Jahannum,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
To call drug screens discrimination is a huge, huge leap. Cannabis does alter the way your brain functions to some degree, even up to 24 hours after use.

I disagree. Lots of other drugs do that exact same thing, but get out of the system very quickly. Meaning, the person could very easily test negative for a drug that is totally screwing up his/her life. While, the cannabis user is punished because it takes a lot longer for cannabis to leave the system. The user is no longer high, but still comes back positive. People can be occasional cannabis users with no ill effects whatsoever. Not always the case with alcohol and other drugs. This is an old argument, but I stand behind my opinion. Cannabis users get screwed with this issue.
 

Jahannum

(。´∀`)ノ
I understand where your coming from Vicki, but how is it discrimination? Yeah there are some medicinal benefits and it is not as bad as most legal drugs(Tobacco, Alcohol, Pills) but, it is still a drug. I am sure in medical states, you get a pass for testing positive for cannabis if you got a perscription. Also in states where recreational use is now allowed, I am sure employers are adjusting their policies to compensate.

Besides I find mostly drug testing is only used as a means to remove undesirable employees or during the hiring process.

I am trying to approach this as I do all things, with as little personal bias as possible.
 
Jahannum,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
I am sure in medical states, you get a pass for testing positive for cannabis if you got a perscription.

Dish Network just fired a MMJ patient for testing positive. When are you going to test other employees, Dish? What about the other employees that are taking Oxycodone or Hydrocodone, etc., for medical reasons? Shouldn't they be fired too? Let's be fair, I say. Or, maybe, just a little compassion and common sense?
 

Jahannum

(。´∀`)ノ
I agree with you Vicki, but, even if it is uncompassionate, it is the business owners choice.

Part of the root to the problem is Mankinds innate ignorance, and until that is penetrated there will continue to be hypocrisies, narrow mindedness, learned bias.

The Idea alone that Cannabis is an illegal criminal substance is lunacy. The only reason it was ever outlawed was as part of a power grab like prohibition. If you study our government in the early 1900's, it shares a semblance of a mafia with power assumptions and grabs left and right.

prohibtion_feds.jpg

Looks like a bunch of gansters to me. :goon:
 
Jahannum,

Gunky

Well-Known Member
Nope, you don't get a pass in medical states for testing positive. At a certain point, so many people will be getting caught by the tests that employers will have to let up, I suspect, but for the present it's a huge problem if cannabis is useful to you.

It can also become nightmarish if your ex knows you are into it and decides that's his/her ticket to primary child custody. I had to kind of bluff my way through that a few years ago but it was dicey getting asked about it by a judge.
 
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Jahannum

(。´∀`)ノ
Nope, you don't get a pass in medical states for testing positive. At a certain point, so many people will be getting caught by the tests that employers will have to let up, I suspect, but for the present it's a huge problem if cannabis is useful to you.

That is unfortunate, because there are some who do truly benefit from cannabis use. With the current trend of things, hopefully the mindset of america will continue to gradually become more openminded with cannabis use.

I am surprised there is no goverment regulations dissallowing the firing of a MMJ patient in a medical state.
 
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Jahannum,
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Caligula

Maximus
Why are you surprised? MJ, medical or not, is still considered illegal by the federal government.

That's also the crux of the matter here with employers like Dish and why it's unfair to go after them for enforcing these rules. Dish schedules television, not drugs. If you want to take issue here, it needs to be with the federal legality of MJ and not with individual private enterprises.
 

Gunky

Well-Known Member
I would simply fail the test. The employer would then fire me if he did not want someone that uses cannabis. My current employer does not care if I use cannabis, and would not test me anyways. But if he wanted to, I would not be against it, it is a business, and his, not mine.

How much of our privacy and our medical data are we going to surrender to employers? We let them look at our urine, our blood, our hair, our dna. If doctor-patient confidentiality is a valued right, we surrender it every time we take these drug tests.

Is it ok for an employer to check if a woman is fertile? This affects employer costs! Can he check your DNA for some issue he'd rather not pay for? Slippery slope.
 
Gunky,
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Caligula

Maximus
How much of our privacy and our medical data are we going to surrender to employers? We let them look at our urine, our blood, our hair, our dna. If doctor-patient confidentiality is a valued right, we surrender it every time we take these drug tests.

Is it ok for an employer to check if a woman is fertile? This affects employer costs! Can he check your DNA for some issue he'd rather not pay for? Slippery slope.

I dont see how any of that relates to "doctor-patient confidentiality". Your employer isn't getting this information from your MD. In fact, you're volunteering it in the instance you suggest.
 
Caligula,
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
Your doctor recommended a drug for you. Now your employer goes sniffing through your body fluids to reveal it.
 
Gunky,

Caligula

Maximus
Your doctor recommended a drug for you. Now your employer goes sniffing through your body fluids to reveal it.

Again, that has nothing to do with the legalities of "doctor patient confidentiality".

Also, unless said employer is forcing you to pee in a cup at gun point, you're still volunteering said those fluids.
 
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SpruceGruve

Bag of sand in hand,Eyeing up the gold statue
Again, that has nothing to do with the legalities of "doctor patient confidentiality".

Also, unless said employer is forcing you to pee in a cup at gun point, you're still volunteering said those fluids.
Generally if you refuse to piss for a test they just fire you anyways......so no,you don't really have a choice
 

thisperson

Ruler of all things person
I think the point he is trying to make and has been re-iterating for a while is that it is the employer's prerogative to drug test employees.

My personal experience may read differently than your guys'.

My first job I wasn't drug tested. My immediate supervisor found it funny when I told him I smoked pot off the job. He said so long as I wasn't like the last guy who would smoke on his break and fall asleep, I'd be okay.

My second job it never came up and I didn't make it an issue.

My third job I would smoke with my boss before the job. He found it made me more calm and easy-going than being some always-silent but competent young'ish person. He was at least twice my age.

My fourth job I'd been offered a position at the school district and was afraid that I'd be refused when drug testing came up but at the employee orientation someone made a note that MMJ was okay and I was like. Got it. :)

I never held any of my jobs for more than 9 months. I'm a schizophrenic and I would always quit my job when I'd have an episode and wander off someplace, disconnected from reality, without caring about how I would feed myself later.

But the weed? Was never an issue. It'd usually be because I stopped smoking for a while that these things even came up.

So tl;dr. Come to California. The grass is always greener.

And for the future of drug testing? I'd expect it to not go away. Maybe someone needs to invent a better way of testing for harder drugs so that weed isn't the focus?
 

RUDE BOY

Space is the Place
Once herb is legal they won't test for it anymore but for many employers it's still a must if they wanna keep their federally backed insurance. It's pretty much as simple as that.

You have a choice to piss in a cup or not same as you have a choice to find a marijuana friendly job, Nobody ever Made me work anywhere I didn't choose to work.

:2c:
 

aesthyrian

Blaaaaah
Sure seems like you guys have never lived in an area that is desperate for jobs. And when the stipulation is piss or employment, then yes, they are forcing you to pee. Yeah you can refuse, but then they instantly refuse the job. How is that not some form of coercion? Not like employment is important or necessary in life. Are their employers that make sure their employee's eat on non-gmo foods? I mean, that's fair too. It's their right as an employer to force any moral beliefs they wish on people who just simply are asking for employment...? Because when Cannabis is legal in a state and an employer is still testing for it, they are testing for some sort of moral standard that they as an employer are forcing upon their potential employees. They are no longer testing for an illegal drug... so what they hell are they testing for?

How many companies have parties with booze? I mean, come on...

Reality isn't always so peachy, and to simply suggest to uproot your entire existence and move to California as a solution.. haha, ok. I'm sure there are cases where someone had been fired in Cali over weed use, It is the 8th largest economy in the world, their is a lot that can happen. There is no perfect location, yet. Even in the states where it is legal they can and will test for it. How is that ok or fair? It's not.

I would think an employer needs to respect the rules of the state they operate in, which many are not doing.

Seems some of you have given up the fight. I know I won't and it seems many here are in it for the long haul too. I just can't and won't accept these double standards. Yeah, I'll use fake piss if I need to, but I don't feel proud about it. It's not like "Ha, I fooled you, fuckers!" No... it's frankly very demeaning and pathetic feeling. I'm not ok with an employer making me feel that way before I even get a paycheck.

Yeah, strapping a pouch of piss to your thigh with a 9v heater isn't my idea or fun or freedom. Guess I should just become an alcoholic like my parents and the rest of my family. They are totally accepted by society, at least more so than I am.

And frankly guys, I am sick of being forced to live a lie. That's a not a way to live a happy life. :peace:
 

RUDE BOY

Space is the Place
Even in the states where it is legal they can and will test for it. How is that ok or fair? It's not.

I would think an employer needs to respect the rules of the state they operate in, which many are not doing.

It sucks for sure and I don't believe anyone here disagrees with that But...
Most employers have to deal with Federal Law when it comes down to insurance.

Insurance Costs are why most companies in Florida where I live Drug test, It isn't a moral issue at all.
You need to pick the right Fight like the one for National Legalization because when that happens Drug testing for Marijuana will be a thing of the past,
that's how I see it anyways.

:peace:
 

aesthyrian

Blaaaaah
I do hope you're right. I agree that insurance cost and polices are a large reason for the abundance of employment drug testing in the first place. Another reason why we need a better health care system.

Makes me wonder how prevalent pre-employment drug test are in other countries? Is this just another "American" idea? :shrug:
 

RUDE BOY

Space is the Place
I don't even think it has to do with health insurance always now but liability insurance, at least where I've worked in the construction and service sectors.
 

Silver420Surfer

Downward spiral
If you look deeper at who owns some of these companies, you'll see the connections. This is WAY more than just "safe workplace" shit. At least in Florida. Can't speak for other areas.

The old turd who is tasked with getting funding for Drug Free Florida(who is opposed to Florida's upcoming vote in November for MMJ) has deep connections(politically and financially) to the drug testing culture in America.


"During the 1978 Mexican marijuana paraquat scare, and while still a private citizen working for the state of Mississippi marijuana farm, this same Carlton Turner called High Times magazine to advertise a paraquat tester.
Unknown to Turner, High Times was not accepting ads for any paraquat testers because all evidence showed the testers didn’t work.

Dean Latimer—then a High Times associate editor, strung Turner along in virtually daily phone conversations for a month, listening to Turner talk about how much money Turner was going to make from sales of the device.

High Times wanted to see a sample. When Turner delivered his prototype version of the paraquat test kit to High Times, it was a total “Rube Goldberg” type rip-off, “just like the dozen or so phony kits other companies tried to buy ad space for at this time,” wrote Latimer in an article published in 1984.

Turner apparently never thought High Times was ethical enough to check the contraption out. He assumed they would just take the ad money and run—print the ad and make Turner rich.

He didn’t care if some kid died or was bilked out of money believing in his bogus paraquat test kit.

After this attempted mail fraud, this man became President Reagan’s national drug czar in 1981, recommended by George Bush and Nancy Reagan."

"Turner even said that he doesn’t even care if hundreds of kids die from smoking pot the federal government has deliberately sprayed with paraquat.
Then at the April 25, 1985, PRIDE conference in Atlanta, Georgia, with Nancy Reagan and 16 foreign First Ladies in attendance (including Imelda Marcos), Turner called for the death penalty for drug dealers.

Turner was, after all, Reagan’s, Bush’s, and the pharmaceutical companies’ own hired gun, who saw his entire mission as not against heroin, PCP, or cocaine, but to wipe out pot and jazz/rock music…

Carlton Turner was forced to resign after Newsweek magazine excoriated him October 27, 1986, in a large editorial sidebar. His resignation was a foregone conclusion after being lampooned in the Washington Post and elsewhere as no other public figure in recent memory for his conclusions (in public addresses) that marijuana smoking caused homosexuality, the breakdown of the immune system, and, therefore, AIDS.

He resigned December 16, 1986. What should have been front page headline news was buried in the back pages during the Iran-contra scandal that exploded that week.

Urine Testing Company
After his resignation, Turner joined with Robert DuPont and former head of NIDA, Peter Bensinger, to corner the market on urine testing. They contracted as advisors to 250 of the largest corporations to develop drug diversion, detection, and urine testing programs.

Soon after Turner left office, Nancy Reagan recommended that no corporation be permitted to do business with the Federal government without having a urine purity policy in place to show their loyalty.
Just as G. Gordon Liddy went into high-tech corporate security after his disgrace, Carlton Turner became a rich man in what has now become a huge growth industry: urine-testing.

This kind of business denies the basic rights of privacy, self-incrimination (Fifth Amendment) rights, unreasonable search and seizure, and the presumption of innocence (until proven guilty).

Submission to the humiliation of having your most private body parts and functions observed by a hired voyeur is now the test of eligibility for private employment, or to contract for a living wage.



 
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syrupy

Authorized Buyer
Companies that want to make it an issue about not testing their employees will be rewarded by sky high insurance rates, assuming they can find someone to underwrite them. Once a few liability cases are paid out, legal will clamp down on that "employees rights" talk right quick.
 
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