Discontinued Thermovape Cera

Au contraire mon ami, it is thouest who hath not the proper knowledge of electrical terms and values! Im afraid it is thou who hath the log in his eye...I have tried conversing with you privately if youll remember, you would not stop calling me "asshole" and "retarded" etc..so I gave up, remember? The last few emails were me saying "gasho" and you saying ie "not good enough, jerk" or words to that effect. I no longer speak to you, but to the audience. gasho.

mod note: From the rules page-

• Do not post the contents of private conversations without permission from all parties involved.

Quote instead of kissing, why not apply the chapstick directly to his butt? Quote




Thanks Ted for this valuable suggestion. Your eloquence leaves me speechless, wow. As to the chapstick, my girlfriend emphatically denied the use of it... "Just keep kissing" was what she said... Since I sunk my last dime into the Cera Ti and it's batteries, there will be no chapstick soon. Sorry to see such a nice suggestion go to waist...
Then again, it looks like your conversations do tend to do that, don't they?! But never stop believing Ted... I have complete faith in you.

All this talk of battery testing reminds me I've been hung up with my project there. As you might recall the original tester used a 'washing machine controller' class processor to read voltages and control the dummy load. It looked like this:


It's been upgraded in the battery holder and leads to better model the Solo. It uses my desktop PC to capture the readings though a USB link. I've been trying to build a stand alone version (recording on micro SD instead) but keep hitting self induced problems. Time to press on with the original I think and explore LL use. Which is where I'd like to ask your help/advice.

The routine for EO cart service testing is a series of 15 second loads followed by 45 second rests. Voltage is taken before and during the load and testing stopped when it fails to make 3.50 Volts. I think this is a fair approximation of the EO loading. If someone thinks otherwise, please speak up?

Now, for LL I think the pattern is much different. I'm thinking along the lines of say 3 or 4 hits to a session. First say 15 seconds of step 1 (preheat) followed by 20 (?) seconds for step 2 and the hit? Then say 20 seconds rest, 20 on for the next hit a few more hits? Making a session say 4 cycles of 20 seconds each with the first 15 seconds longer with 20 second rests between. Then let it rest say 4 or 5 minutes before the next "session"? Like a '20/20/4 burn', or series of them, with the first one longer to account for the extra heat on step 1.

What you good folks think about that?

TIA

OF

Psybero said:

LOL I cannot wait to be born (again?)!
Still have a couple of agonizing weeks to go though...
Tension is mounting, saliva is drooling, muscles tense up.
I find myself rolling and smoking more spliffs, simply out of stress of anticipation.
Has been a long time since I felt this 'pre-Christmas' sensation so strong.

My sleeve goes out the door. I was under the impression that the main body got warm/hot, all the better it does not. Thanks!

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I wouldn`t throw away your rizlas just yet ! I was in a similar predicament to yourself wanting to give up spliffs for a purer hit. Cera LL can deliver, but don`t underestimate the skill required to light her up to get the desirable results. The original batteries (when the good reviews were wrote) were discontinued, and although the new ones appear satisfactory on paper, it didn`t stop the early adopters scouring the planet to snap up the last few originals in existence. I don`t think an accurate review of the technique using the new stock batteries has ever been written. I`ve been able to get cera to light up about 20 times max with hash, and I`m damned if I can figure out what I`m doing differently when she comes alive. Good luck.

Nimrod said:

The original batteries (when the good reviews were wrote) were discontinued, and although the new ones appear satisfactory on paper, it didn`t stop the early adopters scouring the planet to snap up the last few originals in existence. I don`t think an accurate review of the technique using the new stock batteries has ever been written.

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Of the currently easily available types my favorite is probably the NCR1650PD:
http://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Panasonic-18650-2900mAh-NCR18650PD/dp/B00G9AKIVQ
http://www.fluidvaper.com/orbtronicPD2900

Unless my memory is off (entirely likely here) this was one of the two 'factory batteries' that came in the second round? It, along with the CGR18650CH (another excellent choice IMO), was given me to try as part of the Beta testing. I've bought several more from both the sources above and recommend them.

I use the same techniques as ever and get basically the same results but now with a few more sessions (about 10% more).

OF

Nimrod said:

I wouldn`t throw away your rizlas just yet ! I was in a similar predicament to yourself wanting to give up spliffs for a purer hit. Cera LL can deliver, but don`t underestimate the skill required to light her up to get the desirable results. The original batteries (when the good reviews were wrote) were discontinued, and although the new ones appear satisfactory on paper, it didn`t stop the early adopters scouring the planet to snap up the last few originals in existence. I don`t think an accurate review of the technique using the new stock batteries has ever been written. I`ve been able to get cera to light up about 20 times max with hash, and I`m damned if I can figure out what I`m doing differently when she comes alive. Good luck.

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Thanks, this learning curve is of course a personal thing, but to give me an idea, how long did it take you to be comfortable with your results? I can imagine that the herb or hash used, the way it is ground an dried, are factors that influence the end result. My hope is to master the Cera, so I can freely focus on the search for the best taste around, and most important how to reproduce quality experiences. Cera needs to respond predictable after some training I would suspect?! This is a training program I am more than eager to start...

As to the batteries used, are the results they give that different? As long as I have enough of 'm (ordered 18650's) laying around, all will be well I would think? It might be because I have still not experienced Cera, that this discussion sounds a little academic to me. Undoubtedly will this topic come to life for me as Cera arrives and I start to use her...

So some questions I still have. After getting my EO cart rebuilt I want to try to use it more often. I'll admit I don't use it much, mostly because I still cant get the hang of loading it.

Does it seem to be just as effective to load a half a gram or so at once as it is to load a little bit at a time? I'm just trying to minimize waste and keep it efficient.

darkrom said:

So some questions I still have. After getting my EO cart rebuilt I want to try to use it more often. I'll admit I don't use it much, mostly because I still cant get the hang of loading it.

Does it seem to be just as effective to load a half a gram or so at once as it is to load a little bit at a time? I'm just trying to minimize waste and keep it efficient.

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i keep it light id say . 15 grams works flawlessly

So loading larger capacities seems to waste more or something?

My EO core always spits up what I load into it, no matter if I load a small amount or larger amount, and I of course let the concentrate soak into the ceramic. I will get a few nice hits and then it will get wispy, I open the mouthpiece to check and it just a big mess all over it.

darkrom said:

So loading larger capacities seems to waste more or something?

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it does burp up some if i put too much into it

I think it has a LOT to do with the concentrate. Well purged stuff seems to go down easy, lesser grades spit back and blow out the vents at much less provocation. I'm spoiled by stocking up on some nice CO2 oils lately. As is so often the case, the foil test can be very helpful. Watch carefully the 'quickly and evenly melts and flows freely' part. That's where you spot uneven melting due to waxes and water and the free flowing part shows up escaping gas (poor purge) often. Even if it flashes cleanly away, troubles here relate to troubles loading.

That said, I suggest .5 grams from dry. Reload .25 or so when it gets down to .25 (running lower than that can burn the oil, fouling the following taste needlessly). Back off if you have troubles, bump it slowly up a bit if you have well behave concentrates. I usually end up adding .5 so I stay between .25 and .75 from dry, give or take?

I think the appearance of the top plate can be a great indicator of what's going on inside. I like it 'damp' but still showing the cell structure of the plate, like a damp kitchen sponge. You can also gauge it on experience. If the vapor slows (and the battery is good) it may be time for a top up.

OF

I'll keep playing with it. Just hard to justify experimenting when a gram of quality oil takes a day of my time and a 1/4 oz of my fine (purchased $$) buds to make!

Not to mention the real kicker, its hard to get everclear here. However my home made everclear extractions are SO much better than the best of the best BHO my friends make with their vac setups. Talk about labor of love.

Skeena said:

My EO core always spits up what I load into it, no matter if I load a small amount or larger amount, and I of course let the concentrate soak into the ceramic. I will get a few nice hits and then it will get wispy, I open the mouthpiece to check and it just a big mess all over it.

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Sounds like the ceramic might be saturated

I just had a MUCH better time than before loading my home made sap into this. Either I'm getting better, or the rebuilding of the core took care of some older oils that I tried to use and probably ruined by using sub par oil.

Either way while watching TV I was able to load between .25 and .4g of oil if I had to guess. Took about a half hour though... LOL.

I am having much more success than I did in the past loading it, so I'll rule this one with OF as always, better concentrate matters more than anything else it seems. Hopefully I'll have some CO2 to try by the end of the summer if I'm lucky. I imagine that would be super easy to load.

Now I need to get myself a luna body haha. I already have that on the back burner for when there is a really good deal on one, or when the dispensaries open here and oil is easier to get a hold of.

darkrom said:

I'll keep playing with it.

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Some few of us, the noble, are called upon to sacrafice unceasingly for their art....

Soldier on DR, yer an inspiration to us all and (at long last) a useful role model for the young.

hoptimum said:

Sounds like the ceramic might be saturated

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Always a good point, the goods need to be absorbed, but 'filling it up' leads to all sorts of stuff, at the best causing you to have to heat a lot more up every time you use it, cooking the concentrate and slowing the action down. Ideally the good work is done on the exposed surfaces with the concentrate nearby quickly recharging the surface between hits. Other modes work, of course, but that seems ideal?

darkrom said:

I just had a MUCH better time than before loading my home made sap into this. Either I'm getting better, or the rebuilding of the core took care of some older oils that I tried to use and probably ruined by using sub par oil.

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Outstanding! Sounds like you're on the road again. I agree, garbage deposited deep in the core can only be covered up. And that not all that well. At the same time it plugs up the works, like calcium in plumbing or cheeseburger based cholesterol in our arteries.....choking off the flow. And often goofing up the taste in the bargain.

Loading remains the key I think (after proper batteries which only has to be 'in range'). Not only what, but how much and how it's loaded. I understand how much a blessing it is to have sub $50 grams of highest grade oils in that display case downtown, calling out to you. I just wish we could all have 'access to that resource'.

Before I got completely spoiled, I was having some luck preheating the oil. I'd put my trusty Wilton #10 tip (key gear for early Omicron Cart guys.....) in the core, heat the oil in a vial until it was quite liquid, then upend the vial in the tip. It would 'soak into the ceramic' much faster and easier that way but takes more fiddling. And speaking of fiddling, I think once properly loaded it's easier to add a little bit more (say .1 or .2) 'before it really needs it' than it is to deal with a dry core and large top up load?

OF

I'll have to try keeping it topped off. For me right now on my "oil and no bud cleanse" that would be topping up in a day or two at this point. Somehow I'm well on my way to making 1g of oil last 2 weeks. Lets see if the ease of the cera encourages me to consume more than the pain in the ass, but stealthy and simple, load as you go "vaped nano" pen.

darkrom said:

I'll have to try keeping it topped off. For me right now on my "oil and no bud cleanse" that would be topping up in a day or two at this point. Somehow I'm well on my way to making 1g of oil last 2 weeks. Lets see if the ease of the cera encourages me to consume more than the pain in the ass, but stealthy and simple, load as you go "vaped nano" pen.

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I look at the EO core as being like 4 or 5 Revolution/DART cores. So reloads of .25 to .5 make sense to me here like ones of .05 to .1 did there. The lower end is pretty good for most, the top end just fine with some.

Your specific consumption is your own problem, although I will say Cera EO is not likely to lower it.....

Best wishes with your 'refound friend'.

OF

Of course I can't blame the vape for using more, but it sure does tempt me to use it more than something I have to wipe dabs on a finicky small coil. I like the aspect of load it while I'm at home watching TV or something, then just take it with me and no tools needed for the day.

Psybero said:

Thanks, this learning curve is of course a personal thing, but to give me an idea, how long did it take you to be comfortable with your results? I can imagine that the herb or hash used, the way it is ground an dried, are factors that influence the end result. My hope is to master the Cera, so I can freely focus on the search for the best taste around, and most important how to reproduce quality experiences. Cera needs to respond predictable after some training I would suspect?! This is a training program I am more than eager to start...

As to the batteries used, are the results they give that different? As long as I have enough of 'm (ordered 18650's) laying around, all will be well I would think? It might be because I have still not experienced Cera, that this discussion sounds a little academic to me. Undoubtedly will this topic come to life for me as Cera arrives and I start to use her...

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What I`m saying is with the stock batteries there`s little room for error at the important step 2 phase. Most people who can light her up at will, learned the technique with more agreeable batteries if not with a different model (T1) altogether. Its a bit like saying if you want to take up snowboarding, it probably helps if you can already ski and skateboard. When she does light up the taste is cool and mellow, just right for delicate palates, but I find these moments rare, and it`s increasing hard to be satisfied with the drip feed response when I know what she can really do ! More and more when I can`t get her to light up and produce vapour, I end up frustratingly tipping the contents into a rizla. btw I`m on the same hash as you here in England.

Nimrod said:

What I`m saying is with the stock batteries there`s little room for error at the important step 2 phase. Most people who can light her up at will, learned the technique with more agreeable batteries if not with a different model (T1) altogether. Its a bit like saying if you want to take up snowboarding, it probably helps if you can already ski and skateboard. When she does light up the taste is cool and mellow, just right for delicate palates, but I find these moments rare, and it`s increasing hard to be satisfied with the drip feed response when I know what she can really do ! More and more when I can`t get her to light up and produce vapour, I end up frustratingly tipping the contents into a rizla. btw I`m on the same hash as you here in England.

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Thanks for your reply and clarifying that step 2 difficulty. I am curious, especially because our basic material will be the same, how you load yours.
Amount of your material, how dry it is and how fine the grind? Do you mix with buds or use it solo? How long do you preheat? How long do you have your Cera?

Psybero said:

Thanks for your reply and clarifying that step 2 difficulty. I am curious, especially because our basic material will be the same, how you load yours.
Amount of your material, how dry it is and how fine the grind? Do you mix with buds or use it solo? How long do you preheat? How long do you have your Cera?

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I`ve had my cera since January, but got off to a stunted start due to a hot switch that needed replacing. I used to burn my material very lightly (as in with a joint) with limited success, but had instant results when I started using a grinder. For 3 days I couldn`t go wrong, big bowls, small bowls it didn`t seem to matter, but since then even grinding has become ineffective. Mixing with very dry fine bud helps with stage two and tastes nice but still doesn`t guarantee vapour. All I can really advise is that Moroccan Pollen works better when it has been ground and is still dry, as apposed to the sticky effects of burning. The world of difference with cera is executing step 2 correctly. I seem to only get it right by misadventure rather than following a set plan.

Nimrod said:

I`ve had my cera since January, but got off to a stunted start due to a hot switch that needed replacing. I used to burn my material very lightly (as in with a joint) with limited success, but had instant results when I started using a grinder. For 3 days I couldn`t go wrong, big bowls, small bowls it didn`t seem to matter, but since then even grinding has become ineffective. Mixing with very dry fine bud helps with stage two and tastes nice but still doesn`t guarantee vapour. All I can really advise is that Moroccan Pollen works better when it has been ground and is still dry, as apposed to the sticky effects of burning. The world of difference with cera is executing step 2 correctly. I seem to only get it right by misadventure rather than following a set plan.

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Wow, that does not sound like the experience I am after, it can get disheartening Then again, it could be a challenge to get to a working recipe. Luckily the material I use is very constant, so I might be able to sort out some test configuration. Do you vary your material since you have these results, or does the Cera simply play a lesser role (and the riz a bigger one)? It would be shame to have to trade in my hash for another -better vaporizable- material. Still hopeful I can ditch the tobacco altogether and have a vaporizer as my only source, be it with my trusted favorite or a new good tasting vapeherb.

Something else, did you have to pay tax upon receiving your Cera?

OF said:

I would tend to agree with you there, which is why I built the test fixture and tested one such '30 Amp wonder battery' and found it's performance as we use it to be nothing special at all. In fact, while better than the commonly recommended CGR18650CH (gave two more 'hits' in EO simulation) it fell far short of the NCR18650PD outperformed it by 13 extra 'hits'. Out of 118 total for the VTC5

But TTH says I'm speaking gibberish, indicating to me he knows more on the subject? Hopefully he'll back that claim up with something we can examine. I don't want to clutter this already unwieldy thread with the details of my tests, but if interested folks want to PM me I'm happy to send the raw data along for their inspection.

But if the measure of value is indeed in providing heat it seems the VTC5 is not the ultimate answer....... It has a capacity to do something we don't need (or are able to use), but at the expense of useful heating we could take advantage of.

OF

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All that matters to me is which battery has what it takes to get through step two with the higher temperatures needed to vape hash ! Or are the temperatures too high already, causing the load to get sticky before it has the chance to vaporise ? I remember you once said you preferred the 14 volt core setup ! Are we getting too much heat ?

Psybero said:

Wow, that does not sound like the experience I am after, it can get disheartening Then again, it could be a challenge to get to a working recipe. Luckily the material I use is very constant, so I might be able to sort out some test configuration. Do you vary your material since you have these results, or does the Cera simply play a lesser role (and the riz a bigger one)? It would be shame to have to trade in my hash for another -better vaporizable- material. Still hopeful I can ditch the tobacco altogether and have a vaporizer as my only source, be it with my trusted favorite or a new good tasting vapeherb.

Something else, did you have to pay tax upon receiving your Cera?

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I paid taxes... it is coming outside from europe... so normaly you have to pay taxes.. but i am sure you will find info on the net for the netherlands...