Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud EVO
- Thread starter stonemonkey55
- Start date
Anonymouse
Sith I care
It'd be the same number of words if I'd split it up by poster. And there's way more words than that in any single page of the thread. But yes, a lot of people aren't going to read it; it is the nature of the Internet. It is also why I don't make long posts very often.
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...and practice purely in the name of scientific discovery, too. I commend and concur.
Deadshort480
We're here to fuck shit up.
I actually did read all of it, but toward the end I found myself wanting to hurry. Some very good information in there though.
I read it all too, and while I understand your comments, I also want to say that we seldom get posts as rich in information as those are. If lengthy posts are the price we have to pay for good scientific explanations, then I'm ready to pay it.
Ripbongs420
vapiff
Hello fellow VXL heads, I've been super busy so I don't have any time to comb through the thread to find the answer, but does anyone know the FC code for an EVO package purchase and what does it give? I'm looking to gift an EVO for a close friend's birthday. Thanks in advance! 
I have had my eye on this vaporizer for some time. I was considering buying it, but honestly I just think there are too many quality issues and potential things that go wrong with the units, there's too many little glitches, and "little things to know".
Phenomenal design is when the product works as consistently and as simply as the Volcano. They have set the gold standard. You turn it on, it works every time, there's no bull-shit to deal with, it's the definition of reliable.
With the Storz and Bickel Volcano; I have never heard of one malfunctioning, of course there's always the inevitable few, but the "few" here are too frequent. I rake through this thread and have seen too many instances of where people's units malfunction due to a variety of reasons.
With this thing, you might need firmware, you might be sitting there someday and the light is flickering and doing something you've never seen it do before. Thermostats might go bad, variable temp range on the dials.... there's just too many things I have seen go wrong over my time lurking in this thread.
It seems like the idea is phenomenal, the performance of the working units is legendary, but honestly I just feel that if I'm shelling out 400+ $ for a vaporizer, it should work as reliably as the Volcano.
I have no doubt that the performance, "the idea" and working product probably crushes the Volcano, but the perception to me is that the manufacturing isn't on the same level.
To the makers of this vape, that's my challenge to you. I hope I'm your harshest critic, because I want you to take this idea to it's ultimate level. I hope one day you can match the engineering and manufacturing standards set by the Volcano. That's when you will have the ultimate product on the market, and there will be no discussion.
It seems that you have a product, when working; there's nothing even in it's class. Get the manufacturing and reliability to the Volcano's level, and I think you'll end the debate forever.
Phenomenal design is when the product works as consistently and as simply as the Volcano. They have set the gold standard. You turn it on, it works every time, there's no bull-shit to deal with, it's the definition of reliable.
With the Storz and Bickel Volcano; I have never heard of one malfunctioning, of course there's always the inevitable few, but the "few" here are too frequent. I rake through this thread and have seen too many instances of where people's units malfunction due to a variety of reasons.
With this thing, you might need firmware, you might be sitting there someday and the light is flickering and doing something you've never seen it do before. Thermostats might go bad, variable temp range on the dials.... there's just too many things I have seen go wrong over my time lurking in this thread.
It seems like the idea is phenomenal, the performance of the working units is legendary, but honestly I just feel that if I'm shelling out 400+ $ for a vaporizer, it should work as reliably as the Volcano.
I have no doubt that the performance, "the idea" and working product probably crushes the Volcano, but the perception to me is that the manufacturing isn't on the same level.
To the makers of this vape, that's my challenge to you. I hope I'm your harshest critic, because I want you to take this idea to it's ultimate level. I hope one day you can match the engineering and manufacturing standards set by the Volcano. That's when you will have the ultimate product on the market, and there will be no discussion.
It seems that you have a product, when working; there's nothing even in it's class. Get the manufacturing and reliability to the Volcano's level, and I think you'll end the debate forever.
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
Yes they are quite different actually. It also effects your flower experience as well because you are not getting it all, the vapor is incomplete. I suggest you use one for yourself before speculating further because that downstem does get very hot and I submit there is condensation of vapor occurring in there and we are getting a FRACTION of what would have been the total hit so thats why I bastardized the term. I see you have offered no better alternative.
Edit: Your model of flow through the Sublimator ignores the vortex action which might spin/force heavier particles out to the hot side walls to "condense" . . .
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JoeKickass
Well-Known Member
Start saving my friend, the VX nail is 100% glass!
I used to go to dispensaries but being in the Bay Area, we have more vendors than dispensaries!
I regularly find $20-10/g wax on craiglist, vendors who sell to clubs but if clubs really lowball them they just turn around and cut out the middleman!
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/hab/4505146505.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/hab/4494793426.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/hab/4487161828.html
does anyone know the FC code for an EVO package purchase and what does it give? I'm looking to gift an EVO for a close friend's birthday. Thanks in advance!
I don't know if there is a discount code available. There was an incentive (2 glass VXN for concentrates) if you bought an EVO & Glass HT, w/100 off the glass) at 4/20/2014 to celebrate 4/20. I expect, though I don't know, discounts will be available at times throughout the year. I expect the reason might be they're selling every unit they make, so no need to discount.
Personally, I think they are worth every penny. Yes, I am a fan-boy. If you could use one of these for flowers or concentrates and see how good they are: you would be sold.
StoneMonkey and the Vapexhale crew have a radical new product in demand. I'm just glad I have a backup.
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Dr. Plutonious
Well-Known Member
That's an unfair comparison. The Volcano hasn't changed in years. And it has been around forever. Storz and Bickel has had plenty of time to work out the kinks. The EVO has been out for a few months. Of course products are going to experience the most bugs and problems in their initial release. If all Vapexhale did was make the EVO for the next 6 years, they'd probably have few problems either.
Deadshort480
We're here to fuck shit up.
I just recently gave my father my old analog Volcano to my father. It was the first vaporizer I ever purchased about 10 years ago. After about 6 months my heater failed. After it was sent in and fixed under warranty it worked for a long time with little issue. After some time the motor started to become weaker and weaker until it could not fill a bag anymore. This time it wasn't under warranty anymore and I had to pay nearly $175 to fix it. They are reliable, but even the Volcano can have issues.
Anonymouse
Sith I care
Yes, but saying it is "incomplete" because some percent of the vapour particles are held back, and saying it's "incomplete" because particular actives and components have been selectively removed via some mechanism, so the percent of material held back is compositionally, qualitatively different to the percentage being inhaled are two different things, and only the latter case allows the possibility of "fractional" condensation, the principle behind distillation. The "fraction" doesn't refer to a fraction of the mass passed through, but a fraction (or percentage) of the material composition being selectively removed based on differing boiling/condensation points by compound.
Are you saying Sub reclaim produces noticeably subjectively different effects to the same stuff that came out the mouthpiece, even with concentrates?
And if the Sublimator was fractionally separating the reclaim, when you put that reclaim back through the Sub to use it, shouldn't it virtually all condense in the column again? If you take the moonshine output from a pot still, there's (basically) no water left in it. Running it through the still again won't separate any further water (well, basically none, because it's all already been removed, at least up to the limit of that still's extraction efficiency) but it'll still trap all the alcohol in the still (which is the reclaim column in this analogy).
I've got no interest in owning a Sublimator, and here in Oz that's the only way I'm going to ever get to try one. I wouldn't mind getting to play about with one, briefly, out of curiousity, but I have no more interest than that. I'm not a fan of the design; I just can't get past the complete lack of external insulation. Even if I could ignore the inefficiency of that approach, and all the energy the thing wastes just throwing it off into space unnecessarily as a result of being uninsulated, I can't ignore the utter impracticality that also results; the risk of injury, pain, or damage to other items nearby that results from having scalding hot, highly-thermally-conductive surfaces exposed, and of heavy, high-density components with a lot of thermal reserve, at that. I don't understand why it never occurred to the designer not to insulate in some way, even if they just slipped a bit of moulded high-temp silicone over it or something. They could easily have come up with such an accessory by now, too, with all the time they've had, and businesses' predilection to seek out new revenue streams...
The only explanation I can think of is that they thought it looked cooler that way, and thus would sell better, regardless of the effect on user experience. Who wants to buy a $500 vape that happily sacrifices function for form, though? (Other than hipsters, maybe?)
FFS, it's a machine that literally makes you clumsier and actively lowers your concentration ability when you use it, so why the fuck is its entire surface area covered with searing metal? It's a lawsuit waiting to happen and the only thing protecting the makers is the fact that in most states people using it are using it illegally, and unlikely to pursue anything regardless of whatever mishap might occur because it means admitting to criminal activity themselves.
Clearly some stuff is settling in there; whether it genuinely "condensed" there or just stuck in place is what's up for debate. If it's just settling, then yes, it's holding back part of your hit, but there's nothing resembling fractional distillation going on; it's just doing what a filter does, and physically retaining some percentage of the particles. If it's actually changing phase and directly, literally condensing on the column walls, then things get more complicated and we get a situation where the "sublimate" reclaim can have a genuinely (though not necessarily noticeably) different active profile compared to the stuff being inhaled at the mouthpiece that produced said reclaim.
I did say:
That sure sounds like a generalised case of your vortex hypothesis. I'm assuming there's some sort of turbulence happening in there (which would include cyclonic flow) because laminar flow through the column would produce very little reclaim. Although, my understanding was that the induced vortex action of the Sublimator happens in the bowl, not the reclaim column? Is there another set of jets after the bowl?
Anyway, I'm not categorically saying the Sublimator doesn't perform some form or degree of fractional distillation of its load, just that, based on the information I do have, I personally doubt it is occurring. If it is, at best, the reclaim column is acting like the condenser in a very inefficient pot still setup. It can't behave like a true fractionating column because it has far too little surface area, isn't divided into stages, and the column flow is running with gravity, not against it; there are a lot of factors suggesting at best there might be a miniscule degree of separation going on, but I personally wouldn't expect so. Some column numbers might make for a more compelling case for some degree of this occurring (whether noticeable or not), or they might put the matter to bed, if the temp range is clearly too high or too low.
And if any such thing is happening, I doubt it's by design. I remember when the Sub first came out and the official explanations about how it operated were full of ascientific nonsense. For god's sake, the thing is called the "Sublimator", but no actual sublimation takes place during it's operation. I strongly suspect the fact that the Sublimator works as well as it does is by coincidence as much as design intent. That's probably a matter for the Sublimator thread, though; I'm just not that interested in the product. I'll take the lightweight, modern diesel engine that is the EVO over the twelve-ton Victorian steam engine that is the Sublimator, every time. Even if these allegorical engines hit the same "horsepower" figures, the EVO is just way less risk and hassle to use, and infinitely more practical in every way.
P.S. @stonemonkey55 that counts as a review, right? Put me in your contest.
Cannabis Connoisseur
I LOVE LIFE
I find nice fine grinds allow for much less material in the EVO
AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME POST! I enjoyed reading it thoroughly even though the distraction of my daughter made it difficult. I would like to participate a bit more in this discourse but time doesn't permit but there is one thing that I did want to mention which is any contest we run, they won't be one time things. We will def include international in their own version such as the international Dragon Clouds Challenge. We want nothing more to open up this additional revenue stream for us and we have sent units to our international distributors in the UK and Aussie for real world testing so we are getting very close.
With that said, just wanted to mention that while it is true we have continued to release product, this isn't coming at the expense of getting the 220 ready. The glass accessory division is a whole other team (led by myself) than the team working the electrical components. OK, would love to elaborate more but I have a busy day ahead. TGIF!
timmahsan
treEnt
Just wanted to share about my recent experiences with my EVO. It really has been my go to daily vaporizer. When I start a session with a log vape other than the EVO, there is sometimes it seems I don't get the "full extraction." It might come down to the dryness of the herb, not sure. However, when this happens, I turn to my EVO. I put the remaining herb that isn't brown enough into the ELB and bam, at least 1-2 more decent hits. The EVO excels at extraction it seems, anything I throw at it will produce tasty vapor.
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stickstones
Vapor concierge
I thought I saw the inside of the gong joint as tapered out as it goes down, so that the inner walls aren't flush with the ELB, but rather flaring out from the top slightly. If so, this air gap allows for penetration from more directions. I always thought this was the case and a reason why I could get such good and thorough extraction without any stirring or tending to at all. It also makes a clean ELB work better. If I'm wrong then I can't see why clean ELB's work better since it wouldn't impact side air flow.
rosetta
Long Time Lurker
I did just that. I got great customer service from Sasha, she answered all of my questions. She even went above and beyond when I ordered my evo and forgot to apply an affiliate code. She fixed my own silly mistake! I would have accepted it if I didnt get the cool extras from the code but now I get them thanks to Sasha.
Pickz
Vapes on vapes on vapes!
I didn't want to quote the whole post, but Hexi is referring to a a picture I posted of a small defect in one of my VXNails here:
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Anyways, I did just this and they promptly replied letting me know another VXNail was on the way. I hadn't directly asked for a replacement, but they just went ahead and sent one. Another great customer service experience with team VXL
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Anonymouse
Sith I care
Way back before it was possible for me to get an EVO, or even a Cloud, I played around with the ELB, trying to make it work using an Arizer Extreme Q as a heat source, by stacking an 18mmF to 18mmM adapter on its 18mmM heater outlet to hold the ELB. I was trying to find a larger capacity alternative to the elbow packing technique (which as it turns out, is the only decent way to use the vapouriser, as if you use the "Cyclone bowl" as the manufacturer suggests the unit performs pretty damn unimpressively). I could never get it to work when I packed more than an Arizer elbow screen's worth of material; it'd produce wispy, uneven vapour at normal draw speeds, and combust if you pulled on it hard enough, but didn't seem to have any sweet spot in between.
I suppose the combination of the distance and the sheer mass of the ELB plus larger load vs the elbow, even at full power, was too much added thermal load and/or restriction for the EQ's heater. Funny you mention the above, though, because, since I had assumed the Cloud GonG had parallel inner sides, my other hypothesis was that at least part of the problem was the fact that the only adapters I could get my hands on were internally tapered like you describe, and this was allowing a lot of the airflow to bypass most of the mass of the load by "going around it", so to speak, and as a result causing uneven heating leading to combustion. Contrarily, it seemed parallel sides would force the flow to expend its energy evenly (or at least, much more evenly) among the load.
I don't really know whether the taper is beneficial or not, though, this is all conjecture. The heat output from the Arizer just wasn't strong or even enough to draw any firm conclusions. Perhaps someone with a working Cloud or EVO that owns such an adapter might want to experiment...?
I figured the ELB was designed to work with flow coming in from the "bottom" only, but this may not be the case. I suppose the taper would help with retention, too, and mine does seem to have a slight taper. Then again, nobody from VXC corrected me when I suggested that the only role of the side mesh was as a spacer.
Fake edit: I just noticed, playing with the joint a bit and inserting an ELB while holding a light source up to the side and looking through the GonG, the ELB seems to expand to fill the slight taper inside the joint. You can twist the top of the ELB to try to force the base side to side inside the joint, but even with a noticable (yet quite small) tilt to the top, the base doesn't seem to move at all. Based on this I suspect the taper's intended purpose is actually (or at least mainly) retention, to hold the bowl in place against draw pressure, though it might also have other, emergent functionality.
Phew. Okay, I'm gonna hang out in the green room for a while.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
That's interesting...nice test! I wonder how much individual differences among ELB's effects this. I know I've got some that are looser than others.
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
thats what I, and others, have said many times now.
This is true. We agree on more than we disagree. A basic pot still condenser, ok, but the hit is still being divided. The difference between the EVO and Sub using concentrates is much less than when using flowers however I already said this in my previous post as well and I am done repeating myself . . .
Fame Is A Vapor
EVOnaut
Well after mourning the death of my two VapeXNails I have moved on. I bought five more today and this time I will be much more careful about how I clean them. I cleaned them almost after every use. I would let them self-clean, but there was still residue up top so I would soak them in ISO. After a bit of an ISO soak I would use a metal skillet tool to scrape off the remaining residue in hot water. This always worked great, but I think I cleaned it too much. I believe I fractured my first one a bit while cleaning it which is why it broke so easily. The second one I dropped about a foot on to some ceramic so that was on me. Hopefully with five I will be patient enough to not have to scrape them to clean them all the way. I love these things!
Edit: Just 2-capped some reclaim and it worked well, but it would have probably been better with some VXNs.
I hope this can help you and others avoid breaking your VXNails like it has for me! I broke my first prototype VXNail doing just what you did, scraping my nail clean with a hard metal tool (a sharpened paper clip!). Like you, I did not want this to happen again, and so I have devised the following cleaning process for my VXNails. I only have to do this once a week, just 2 nails at a time (I have four total in rotation).
After the initial soak, the entire process takes no more than 15 minutes for the 2 VXNails. Not only has this method prevented any more breakages, it has also done away with that awful chemical smell (not to mention DISCOLORATION of the bamboo) that comes from burning the VXNail clean of large amounts of leftover residue (note my 'secret weapon' at the end):
Special note: Make sure the wax residue is hot when you soak it up with the q-tip, I wait 10-20 seconds after pulling the nail from the bamboo, otherwise the cotton fibers will stick to the inside of the VXNail, creating a real mess, on the other hand... it'll burn if you stick it in too quickly: TWSS!
A link to the q-tips I buy (I get 'double-sided regular'), cheaper ones are available if you look: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CPU4EC/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
On average I use about 3 of these a week, so for $15 I have 2 years worth. I'm happy.
A final word to the wise: Steel wool drops little steel shavings everywhere, and then rusts if it gets wet. If you, like me, prefer to do your VXNail cleaning in the sink, be careful about where you are dropping your metal shavings. I've ruined a sink mat, a dish tub, and my dog's metal water bowl, all by not being careful from the outset as to where I was traveling while I had metal shavings on my hands. It's easy to avoid once you're aware of it, though.
Lastly, I've found that a steel wool 'snake' maintains its effectiveness for 2 nails, after which it becomes 'gunked up' and loses its abrasive quality. Also, when twisting the steel wool into the nail, you will need to apply some pressure to get the stubborn stuff at the bottom. Be careful not to squeeze the nail too hard with your other hand (a natural reflex) when doing this. You don't want to snap a glass nail in your hands, it could do serious damage (yet another reason I wear protective gloves - improved grip, protection from steel wool and possibly broken glass, & protection from harsh chemicals).
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