Boycott Openvape

aesthyrian said:

What happens when the only medicine that works for you, means you cannot get a job?

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Given that they aren't testing for MJ, I am curious as to what this illegal "medicine" is that you're referring to?

Edit:
As a child I moved across the country 3 times so my father could get gainful employment. The first time we had to live out of a shady motel before he could earn enough for a deposit on an apartment. In fact we slept in the car a few nights.

Also, in my adult life, I have moved states twice for jobs and school. It was no where near as dire as my fathers situation back in the day, but it was something I HAD to do to survive.

Now, none of this had anything to do with drug testing and everything to do with where the jobs/classes were located at the time. That being said, I fail to see how your hypothetical scenario is different. Does it suck to uproot and move to find employment? It sure as hell does but not as bad as being homeless and broke.

Anyway, if we're still talking about MMJ then you have quite a few options as where to relocate. If not... then Im still curious about what this illegal medicine is.

Caligula said:

Given that they aren't testing for MJ, I am curious as to what this illegal "medicine" is that you're referring to?

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I was being hypothetical, sorry my wording wasn't more clear.

My point is that even in CO, where Cannabis is legal for 21+ and medical for 18+, an employer still has the "right" to drug test that employee and revoke them employment because of their legal use of Cannabis, regardless if its for medical use or recreation.

What if Cannabis is the only drug that helps them enough with their condition that is it the only way they are able to work?

So someone finally finds a way to get back to work thanks to using Cannabis, but now they discover that they are not eligible for employment unless they stop taking the very same drug that has allowed them the opportunity to re-enter the work force.

It's a very fucked situation. And frankly, it does not need to exist. It exist cause some asshole was dumb enough to sign up for an insurance policy that requires that he/she drug test any applicant. Better yet, he/she is getting ripped off by having to pay for these drug test at a much higher rate than the 15 cents worth of chemicals cost.

Gotcha. Now, though, are you trying to say that workplace drug testing only exists due to insurance mandates?

Also, its pretty rare for a job to have ongoing random drug testing for existing employees... and those that do have pretty good reasons for the expense and inconvenience of doing so (pilots, military, LE, etc...).

Having worked in education, customer service, sales, and logistics at big corps, public institutions, and small business, Ive yet to have a job that tests more than once at the start of employment. Hell, half of them said they would DT but never did.

Anyway, to bypass that issue, all you need to do is abstain for a few weeks to a month. Really not that big of a deal IMO.

As I said you have choices. Cant move? Find an employer that doesnt do random testing, take a T break, and get to work.

It may seem harsh to some, but there has to be a point where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

If this is still a problem for you then I suggest trying to change the specific illegalities of MJ instead of trying to throw the baby out with the bath water and do away with ALL testing for everyone.

Comparing mj to booze is being way to kind to booze, because mj isn't a poison.

aesthyrian said:

So, are they testing for alcohol? That's certainly a dangerous drug.. Caffeine kills too..

And the whole argument about no one is forcing you to work for them, well what happens when you live in the area and are desperate for employment? What happens when all the private corps start drug testing? What happens when the only medicine that works for you, means you cannot get a job?

Guess you better adjust your lifestyle to fit the ideal lifestyle of the CEO. Because after all, work is life, work isn't something you simply do to support yourself and pay for essentials and some extra fun things...

All hail the CEO, for he/she is king.

It's just silly.

I'll boycott Openvape simply because C02 generally sucks IME and fuck PG. Fuck pre-filled anything.



Like Alcohol?

Was prohibition a better solution? I think not.

We can do what other decent countries do and see drugs use as a medical issue rather than a criminal issue. I mean, I personally never understood how taking a certain substance instantly makes you a criminal. You always needs a provider before you can before a criminal by use, so shouldn't we be dealing with the dealers, not the users? You can arrest every user their is, and tomorrow their will be plenty more as long you have a free flow of whatever drug they are using.



You're probably right, but it's a fallacy to believe that their are no real criminals dealing in the weed market.

I have come across many horrible and shady people thanks to the illegality of Cannabis and me having to find hookups. The type of people that if they just stole your stereo you owe them a thanks...

These people probably also use much harder drugs than Cannabis, and also sell much harder drugs.

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While I agree with your point that life isn't about work, if you live in an area desperate for jobs, and they test for drugs, you don't do drugs or you move. It's pretty simple. I lived in Arkansas, I love weed. Couldn't find work so I saved up for a couple months and moved to Colorado.

Jared said:

While I agree with your point that life isn't about work, if you live in an area desperate for jobs, and they test for drugs, you don't do drugs or you move. It's pretty simple. I lived in Arkansas, I love weed. Couldn't find work so I saved up for a couple months and moved to Colorado.

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Or in this case, you can just booze it up, get some good pharmaceuticals and smoke a couple packs of reds. You just have to do the "right" or accepted drugs, regardless of any scientific data in regards to toxicity and possible levels of abuse.

I do commend openvape for doing the opposite of the usual, and looking for harder drugs. If I have to exist in a world where the opportunity to make some money is held hostage from you because of something you put into your body outside of your paid hours, then this is the type of testing I'd prefer. People fear big government, but I tend to fear more of this type of control.

Still, unless you are drug testing your employees every week(which would be fucking insane), then you have no assurance that your employees that pissed clean won't decide to try some drugs later on. So is the purpose of drug testing to keep a roster of employees that are drug-free, or just drug free when they got hired?

FWIW, I'm probably the most straight edge type cannabis user you could imagine. I consume Cannabis, shrooms like once or twice a year, and sometimes some soda with caffeine haha that's my drug use. Still, I don't give a single fuck if my coworker did a bunch of lines over the weekend anymore than I care if they drank themselves into oblivion.

If I can tell they did that, then it's a problem. That would mean that they are either still intoxicated, or just totally strung out - clearly not capable of work. But if you need to test their piss to find out, I really don't understand the point?

Unrelated - but what does everyone think of certain states that would like to drug test people who receive food stamp benefits?

aesthyrian said:

Unrelated - but what does everyone think of certain states that would like to drug test people who receive food stamp benefits?

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Drug tests cost more money than they save. Florida proved that to us already.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html?_r=0

aesthyrian said:

Or in this case, you can just booze it up, get some good pharmaceuticals and smoke a couple packs of reds. You just have to do the "right" or accepted drugs, regardless of any scientific data in regards to toxicity and possible levels of abuse.

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No one is denying hypocrisy/irony there. That's not the point here though, now is it? Again, you cant throw the entire system under the bus just because you don't agree with one aspect of it.

aesthyrian said:

Still, unless you are drug testing your employees every week(which would be fucking insane), then you have no assurance that your employees that pissed clean won't decide to try some drugs later on. So is the purpose of drug testing to keep a roster of employees that are drug-free, or just drug free when they got hired?

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I'd like to think of it more like a litmus test. People who can handle their shit can typically abstain long enough to pass a DT in order to get employed. Furthermore, the initial DT sets a precedent that the employer is willing to test you if suspicions (or a workplace accident) may arise. That alone is a pretty good motivator IMO.

aesthyrian said:

FWIW, I'm probably the most straight edge type cannabis user you could imagine. I consume Cannabis, shrooms like once or twice a year, and sometimes some soda with caffeine haha that's my drug use. Still, I don't give a single fuck if my coworker did a bunch of lines over the weekend anymore than I care if they drank themselves into oblivion.

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Yes, I am sure we all get it. You can handle your shit. Bob over there can handle his shit. Sally down in Oklahoma can handle her shit. The issue isn't You or Bob or Sally. Its the millions of other guys and gals that CAN'T handle their shit. One bad apple, right? Well about about tens of millions of bad apples? Again, where does the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few? Hey, look at it like this... I think I can handle making a right hand turn at an intersection, but guess what? If there's a red arrow I dont go. I accept that because I know how many asshats suck at driving and put my family at danger every time they are on a public roadway and those traffic signs and that specific law exists because of them.

aesthyrian said:

If I can tell they did that, then it's a problem. That would mean that they are either still intoxicated, or just totally strung out - clearly not capable of work. But if you need to test their piss to find out, I really don't understand the point?

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It's called reasonable doubt. You cant fire someone just because you think they are high on the job. Thats why testing is needed in the first place. Im not sure about you, but Id rather have DTs than an employer be able to fire me based on a guess.

aesthyrian said:

Unrelated - but what does everyone think of certain states that would like to drug test people who receive food stamp benefits?

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The logical side was already discussed in the post above. It makes no sense economically. Personally? I don't think you have any business doing lines of coke if you are receiving welfare.

For the record, I will not uproot myself from where I want to be, due to the illegal criminalization of an amazing, beneficial plant. Especially when we've been lied to and fed a fair amount of propaganda from our govt.

Caligula said:

Again, where does the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few?

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Not a capitalist? I'm kidding of course, comrade. The income gap wouldn't be quite so wide and alcohol would still be illegal if this were true though.

It the end, it's all kind of a moot point anyway. Urine tests are easily foiled.

EDIT* Olympic style drug testing for illegal drugs and alcohol. We will wipe out drugs and accident rates will plummet. It's for your own good

Magic9 said:

For the record, I will not uproot myself from where I want to be...

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And isnt it nice to have that choice?

Magic9 said:

Not a capitalist? I'm kidding of course, comrade. The income gap wouldn't be quite so wide and alcohol would still be illegal if this were true though.

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Like pure communism, pure capitalism is an ideal that can only exist in theory. Furthermore, one can not simply throw out all future progress due to previous indiscretions. "What? The Government says its illegal to discriminate based on race? Fuck them, they used to say it was cool to own slaves!"

Magic9 said:

It the end, it's all kind of a moot point anyway. Urine tests are easily foiled.

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Urine tests aren't the only method available.

Magic9 said:

Olympic style drug testing for illegal drugs and alcohol. We will wipe out drugs and accident rates will plummet. It's for your own good

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This is an interesting idea.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...iati-olympics-marijuana-drug-testing/2528283/

WADA recently amended its rules on cannabis, raising the threshold for a positive test from 15 nanograms per milliliter to 150 ng/ml. In 1998 at the Nagano Games, Rebagliati recorded a level of 17.8 ng/ml, and argued the test resulted from second-hand smoke, which he still says. Ben Nichols, a spokesperson for WADA, said the raising of the threshold is meant to catch only athletes who smoke during the period of a competition. The drug isn't prohibited out of competition.

I know from personal experience Just how reliable Coke heads and meth heads are, so who wouldn't want them handling their meds or working with dangerous equipment. Because you know a tweeker is just misunderstood highly motivated employee who can be trusted to only hit the stem after work.
You know they are so easy going and laid back, They never miss work or steal anything to support their habit or anything like that. Stand up people them Junkies are !!


I don't like drug testing but if I owned a business that dealt with the public or money or products of any kind that are worth money I would not want to hire junkies.

I only snorted Heroin once and didn't like it so that was NEVER my drug of choice, but............all other drugs were, especially coke and speed. LOVED them. Did them daily and snorted through many a work day while taking psychedelics on the weekends. I was a drug garbage disposal.

Was I successful in my work? Absolutely. Could I have performed better, not only for myself but for those who worked for me if I didn't partake at work? Absolutely.

But it's also worth noting that I wasn't operating dangerous machinery nor was my choice of work involved with anything that could pose physical harm to myself or others. If I was, and if my choice was to get buzzed at work anyway, I would have had no problem with being taken to task and either being fired, incarcerated, or............both.

But I'll tell ya how fucked up I was. I was the boss. I was the "man". I was second in command, if you will. I had 250 employees working for me. I instituted pre-employment drug testing for every new hire but I NEVER took that test myself. How fucking hypocritical was THAT?!?

Anyone who is or has been a parent has had to make that decision... and I can all but promise you that 100% of us are guilty of being that "do as I say not as I do" guy/girl.

Caligula said:

Again, where does the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few?

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Magic9 said:

Not a capitalist? I'm kidding of course, comrade. The income gap wouldn't be quite so wide and alcohol would still be illegal if this were true though.

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Caligula said:

Like pure communism, pure capitalism is an ideal that can only exist in theory. Furthermore, one can not simply throw out all future progress due to previous indiscretions. "What? The Government says its illegal to discriminate based on race? Fuck them, they used to say it was cool to own slaves!"

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I was simply pointing out that our society does not operate in that manner, not debating the purity of any economic systems, nor was I simply throwing out any future progress.

The problem with "the needs of the many outweighing the few" can be and has been used as an excuse for anything (cannabis?). Who decides what the needs of the many are? As @lwiens story highlights, those "deciders" are often not quite as pure as those they wish to decide for.

I'm okay with post accident testing if suspicion is involved. I accept that companies have the right to dt their prospective employees. That's one of the things that will change when the laws do.

The only argument I've heard supporting dt, is that it keeps us safe, it protects us, it is for our own good, etc. That seems subjective. Is there any quantitative data that supports that? Is there any evidence supporting that drug abuse is more hazardous than inattentiveness, drowsiness, and plain stupidity? With dts more prevalent these days, does the data show declines in drug use because of these policies?

We're supposed to be a rational society.
If dt can't survive a cost/benefit analysis, it should be abolished.
At the very least, those that legislate it should also be subjected to it

lwien said:

When those users become addicts is when the real issues begin and the danger that they not only inflict on themselves, but the danger that they inflict on family, friends and just about everyone else they come in contact with can be devastating.

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Yes, those can be devastating, family-wrecking addictions. My point was that they are often not, and certainly not any more destructive than alcoholism. over 20 years ago I was addicted to heroin, and it affected the other parts of my life in only the most minor ways (money) - wrote my thesis and got a Duke fellowship while on junk, and then kicked before taking up the fellowship. Ditto for a sister of mine who had a coke problem in the 80s - other than money, it did not interfere with anything - she graduated from college with high honors while working two jobs on coke. And the heroin-addicted Wittgenstein scholar I studied with only had problems from his addiction because it was illegal. Of course I have known other heroin and cocaine addicts who did throw their lives away because of their addictions, losing family, friends, jobs, etc. But at least in Baltimore in the '80s and '90s, I knew more homeless alcoholics than heroin or coke addicts.

While my father's alcoholism screwed up my life and contributed to my being handicapped (he'd physically attack me I was a kid and he was drunk, permanently damaged my spine and my hands).

Aside from the human rights issues and general lack of accuracy in drug tests you are risking your career and reputation on (in the case of urine tests) a testing card made in China that costs less than a dollar.

In the case of Annie Doukhan she fudged and helped convict hundreds on drug charges just to look good to her employers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/annie-dookhan/

Still ready to bend over and get fucked by your own justice system ?

Not me.

Nunavut Tripper said:

Still ready to bend over and get fucked by your own justice system ?

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The day that OPENVAPE is part of the justice system is a day we will all party our Fucking Asses off !!!!!!

....

Looks like you boycotters made a difference! Kudos

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2014/05/openvape_drug_testing_policy_marijuana_drugs.php

That

Silver420Surfer said:

Looks like you boycotters made a difference! Kudos

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2014/05/openvape_drug_testing_policy_marijuana_drugs.php

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Good. We need laws and developments in that area of law and personal freedom to be made on a more educated and rational basis.. Stunts like this are just going to cause a backfire from the community. At least they changed it and other places know for next time not to fuck around and take liberties like that against the common man

Silver420Surfer said:

Looks like you boycotters made a difference! Kudos

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2014/05/openvape_drug_testing_policy_marijuana_drugs.php

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I did get a reply from the CEO of Openvape in response to my complaint and we did have some polite correspondence and I explained my views to him. He doesn't seem like a bad guy,he thought he was doing the right thing at the time but possible didn't understand drug war politics clearly.
Anyway I think Openvape deserves our congratulations for listening to their customer base and giving their decision further thought.
Nice to see some flexibility in their thinking and not falling into the tired dogma "drugs are bad mmkay ? "

drug testing never helps that much - methheads are great at cleaning and tidying up anyway

oPen tastes like shit also

Speaking of working with drug addicts, particularly meth heads, they usually do sub average work up until the day after their first pay check, after which they are completely worthless and usually either a) Quit or b) Just stop coming in.

I used to work as a dish washer in a huge restraunt establishment, so I have worked with alot of junkies.

Now to touch on the over reaching hand of "The Man", as long as Humans are still spiritually immature, they will never be able to handle true Anarchy, so Government is a necessary evil in this world(and with any form of government given time, it will continue to accumulate powers). So for an individual like myself that desires something like anarchy gets to live while knowing it is infeasible. Is that irony?

Just keep in mind the only "Real" freedom anyone possesses are the choices they make. Get too hung up on the minor details in life and you may miss what is right in front of you.

Personally I am all for drug testing in the workplace, especially if that is what the owner wants. Although I do partake in cannabis, I would not before or during work hours, just a line I do not cross, I take work seriously.

Jahannum said:

Although I do partake in cannabis, I would not before or during work hours, just a line I do not cross, I take work seriously.

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So would you use fake piss? Or just quit for a month until you test clean?

These drug test are just unfairly testing for Marijuana since I cant think of many other drugs that stay in your system for so long.

Remember, some people use Cannabis Medicinally and they should not have to decide between their medicine or their job. Who else has to do that? It's easy for an alcoholic, cokehead, heroin addict, etc top pass these test.

I just fail to see how they are effective at all, except for making us regular tokers quit for a month to get a job. I just use a friends urine, but it's pretty fucked that I even have to do that.

Cannabis does not make me a bad person, a irresponsible person, a dangerous person, or an unreliable worker. Can't say that about the other drugs that they are "testing" for which you can easily pass clean for if you just don't do them for a day or so before the test.

It's just keeping cannabis users from greater employment opportunities. Just another example where making the obvious right choice in comparison to other drugs, is used against you in this society. I hate to get all conspiracy crazy, but with legalization seeming very close, to me, this just seems like a way for those special interest to keep people from using Cannabis, even after it's legal. Who is going to vape herb instead of go to a bar and black out, when the vaping of Cannabis will keep them from job opportunities?

Once again, enough with the big government fear. This is big business and we have no vote, representation, or influence on them or their decisions. And right now their decision is to employ testing that will find even a casual Cannabis users testing positive but like I said the dude who goes on a coke binge will be fine as long as it wasn't the day before.

Piss tests are just such a shitty way to test for drugs, unless you want to know who has smoked within a few weeks to a month. Because if someone is testing positive for another drug, you probably didn't need a cup of their piss to notice, they will probably still be strung-out or hungover.

I understand an employers right to have non-drug addicts working for them. But, piss tests are not going to find them those employee's. Unless a drug-addict is a cannabis user?

Jahannum said:

Just keep in mind the only "Real" freedom anyone possesses are the choices they make.

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Yeah like paper or plastic, cash or credit, disc or download, and the biggie: elephant or donkey